It's no such thing. Jobs simply doesn't want the user experience marred with poor performance, crashes and short battery life.
That would be true if you're talking the current Flash versions. But since Flash 10.1 (public release late this spring) offloads Flash code processing to the GPU, that right there drastically improves performance, even more so given that Apple's A4 CPU on the iPad runs at 1 GHz, arguably the fastest ARM implementation in the world right now.
Like I said earlier, Apple doesn't want Flash on the iPad for political reasons. Remember, Apple has a vested interest in HTML 5.0 technologies, especially since one of editors of the current W3C draft document for HTML 5.0 works for Apple. That makes me suspicious that Apple is trying to use a supposedly "open" technology to crush a competitor--something that could be walking the fine line of a violation of Federal antitrust laws.
We won't know that until the A4 is out in the wild. For all we know, it is quad-core.
Let me first say that I agree, it will be good to have an "in the wild" evaluation of the A4. That said, I have not even heard a rumor that it has more than two CPU units. It is not unreasonable to infer some things about the entire SoC's capability based upon what is being done with it. The Tegra 2 has a dedicated GPU unit and a HD decoding unit. It has HDMI output and is multi-tasking capable among other things.
You might find this Tegra 2 article at AnandTech of interest. I share the conclusion of one reviewer who said the Tegra 2 is good news even if you don't use it because it has "raised the bar" for expectations of this class of Systems on a Chip.
As I see it, the major conceptual change that Apple's competitors need to make is to create something akin to the Apple Store/iTunes model for ease of access to apps for their units. This need not even be one run by the hardware vendor. It remains to be seen whether this will ever come to pass though.
IMO, flash may be useful, but it is not critical. RealPlayer wasn't critical for web video, nor is flash. When it comes to web games, flash didn't come first. Shockwave predated it. Business decisions and the buying and selling of technology lead to flash being pushed into the position it's in now. Technology came before it, technology will come after it. Complacency due to ease of understanding is the worst thing we can do as students of technology.
Go find them yourself. Install Firefox and the Flashblock addon and then try to use the internet.
That would be true if you're talking the current Flash versions. But since Flash 10.1 (public release late this spring) offloads Flash code processing to the GPU, that right there drastically improves performance, .
You've got your tenses mixed. What you means is "if we believe the Adobe vaporware hype, then the problem will go away some day".
Early reviews on 10.1 are pretty dismal. Slow, choppy playback and long delays in using menus. If Adobe had wanted to develop decent software, they've had years to do so. Apple would be crazy to listen to them now.
If Adobe ever DOES release a decent version of Flash, Apple can always add it. But there's no rational reason why they should put a crappy version on now in the hopes that Adobe might some day learn how to write acceptable code.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
All you Flash neysayers, and iPad doomsayers, should take a quick read here:
Why should anyone believe that Adobe's blog is unbiased? If Adobe had wanted to address the problem, they could have done so. They're the only ones who have access to the code. As it is, Flash is widely recognized as slow and buggy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep
agreed
but if go a you walkin in the clouds bring a disc or 2 to back up your day
i just bought a dual BD machine for $125 AND RENT BD from NETFLIX
harry potter rocks
peace 9
I hope you're aware that making a copy of a rented BD from Netflix is illegal. Some of us have morals.
Actually, the word is control. Apple have said, in about as many words, that they do not want to cede control of the internet (and the money involved, lest we forget that) to a competitor's technology.
Anyone who knows how to run Activity Monitor can observe that even the most trivial use of Flash within in a webpage eats up extraordinary resources. If Greenpeace were a legitimate environmental watchdog, it would target Flash as a bigger threat than PVC and BFRs combined, just by the composite amount of energy it consumes to do absolutely nothing of value.
The article is a pretty good and neutral summary of the Flash/noFlash discussion until it gets to the above paragraph! Shows something of Daniel's appreciation for Flash and... Greenpeace (!!!)
This will be fun. first, we'll dispute that any mentioned site is critical. Then, if we start losing, we can redefine the word "critical".
The original article has a quote from someone at Adobe using that very phrase...
"Additionally, while Adobe says it is supporting open standards for the web related to HTML5, it still maintains that Flash is "critical to the web" while it also works to cement as much new content as possible into the proprietary mold of its Flash platform and the related Flex and AIR initiatives."
Again, I have not seen anyone give me 5 examples of how Flash is critical, but rather, I have only seen you try to parse words in an attempt to invalidate my question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR
Go find them yourself. Install Firefox and the Flashblock addon and then try to use the internet.
I already have Flash blockers installed in Google Chrome on both my Mac and PC. Other than Zero Punctuation, I am not missing much really. And EVEN with Zero Punctuation, it's not like they couldn't make their videos play without Flash. Break.com has a mobile site that plays videos fine on the iPhone, but they also have an iPhone App on the AppStore.
Out of the umpteen hours a day I spend working online, nearly everything I have run into that uses Flash in some way, shape or form, has an alternative. File uploaders, RSS listings, scrollers, games (last i checked, Quake Live and Battlefield Heroes were not Flash, but a mix between a native browser plugin and on-site AJAX), web videos, ad banners (google ads are images, text, html and javascript. rarely have I seen a Flash one).
Again, no one has taken up the task of honestly defending Flash by pointing out at least 5, as Adobe put it, "critical" needs for Flash on the web. Its almost like saying "IE6 is critical for the internet because otherwise you won't be able to properly access your online banking account".
For everything that can be done in Flash, there are alternate ways of doing them. Some of them may take a little extra elbow-grease, but the end result is well work the effort.
"It says that Apple hasn't made it possible for Flash to use less CPU on the Mac. I hope they do."
How is Apple supposed to make Flash work on OS X? That's Adobe's job- Apple has no access to the software.
Not to mention, of course, that Flash is slow and buggy on all platforms.
Your post is a perfect example of the effect of irrational hatred of everything from Apple. You've lost any ability to think rationally when Apple is involved.
I think it is all about money. App Store is redundant if flash were available on iphone and ipad. It is an artificial restriction. If flash is so awful, then it should also not work on OSX and it works on my macs perfectly. Steve wants to juice out more revenues which I can't blame him for, but by closing these mobile platforms more and more, I feel innovation is hurt and an opening for others are starting to emerge.
Whether it was lack of multi tasking on OS 9 or lack of multi tasking (on official iphones), or IPAD, and the closed and tightly controlled nature of these new platforms, Apple has been on the wrong side of history.
Try to use http://rentzsch.github.com/clicktoflash/ and see how fast your mac suddenly is browsing through the net, and how fine youtube can be in Quicktime . I think this is the best proof for Steve Jobs to be right .
Try to use http://rentzsch.github.com/clicktoflash/ and see how fast your mac suddenly is browsing through the net, and how fine youtube can be in Quicktime . I think this is the best proof for Steve Jobs to be right .
But your screen winds up looking so fugly - so like what's the point?
I've given up after reading two pages of comments so maybe this is covered and I just didn't read it.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned how much a control freak Steve Jobs is. He nor Apple cannot control it. That's one of the major reasons why Flash isn't on the iPhone or iPad, nor will it be.
Mind you, I think that attitude helped him bring Apple back from the brink.
Does it have to be a love/hate fest? I agree with Adobe - I think Apple has the horsepower to run flash on the ipad, so they should allow it. When the iPhone came out they said it lacked the muscle to do flash well. Now the excuses are stability and that its not a "standard." Well, it's used all over the place, and will continue to do so for some time.
I do not love Flash - I agree that it crashes a lot and doesn't seem to work well at all with Chrome. But its a reality of hte internet so it should be on the iPad.
Internet in your hand . . . a load of bulls***t. I'll still get one, but I hope somehting changes.
It's very likely that flash wouldn't perform well on an iPad. Remember that not only is flash optimized for PCs but it is even more so optimized for Intel architecture. If you put Flash on an AppleTV this can be seen when trying to watch a hulu video in 360p, just a horrible experience.
Apple is rightly proclaiming that people should stop settling for crap from Adobe & push the web in a direction where you don't need a big beefy computer to run simple flash games or video! Anyone wanting to know what such a world looks like without flash need only install clicktoflash. Not having flash isn't really all that prohibitive for the average web browser, in fact most big name sites have moved to alternatives.
It's very likely that flash wouldn't perform well on an iPad. Remember that not only is flash optimized for PCs but it is even more so optimized for Intel architecture. If you put Flash on an AppleTV this can be seen when trying to watch a hulu video in 360p, just a horrible experience.
Apple is rightly proclaiming that people should stop settling for crap from Adobe & push the web in a direction where you don't need a big beefy computer to run simple flash games or video! Anyone wanting to know what such a world looks like without flash need only install clicktoflash. Not having flash isn't really all that prohibitive for the average web browser, in fact most big name sites have moved to alternatives.
Oh? And the answer is to settle for crap from Apple? I don't think so.
Oh? And the answer is to settle for crap from Apple? I don't think so.
The answer is Apple can choose how to support its products, Adobe can choose how to support its products and you can choose not to buy or use products from companies that don't suit your needs. It's absolutely great system!
Comments
It's no such thing. Jobs simply doesn't want the user experience marred with poor performance, crashes and short battery life.
That would be true if you're talking the current Flash versions. But since Flash 10.1 (public release late this spring) offloads Flash code processing to the GPU, that right there drastically improves performance, even more so given that Apple's A4 CPU on the iPad runs at 1 GHz, arguably the fastest ARM implementation in the world right now.
Like I said earlier, Apple doesn't want Flash on the iPad for political reasons. Remember, Apple has a vested interest in HTML 5.0 technologies, especially since one of editors of the current W3C draft document for HTML 5.0 works for Apple. That makes me suspicious that Apple is trying to use a supposedly "open" technology to crush a competitor--something that could be walking the fine line of a violation of Federal antitrust laws.
We won't know that until the A4 is out in the wild. For all we know, it is quad-core.
Let me first say that I agree, it will be good to have an "in the wild" evaluation of the A4. That said, I have not even heard a rumor that it has more than two CPU units. It is not unreasonable to infer some things about the entire SoC's capability based upon what is being done with it. The Tegra 2 has a dedicated GPU unit and a HD decoding unit. It has HDMI output and is multi-tasking capable among other things.
You might find this Tegra 2 article at AnandTech of interest. I share the conclusion of one reviewer who said the Tegra 2 is good news even if you don't use it because it has "raised the bar" for expectations of this class of Systems on a Chip.
As I see it, the major conceptual change that Apple's competitors need to make is to create something akin to the Apple Store/iTunes model for ease of access to apps for their units. This need not even be one run by the hardware vendor. It remains to be seen whether this will ever come to pass though.
Cheers!
Someone, anyone, just give me at least 5 examples
where flash IS CRITICAL to the Internet.
IMO, flash may be useful, but it is not critical. RealPlayer wasn't critical for web video, nor is flash. When it comes to web games, flash didn't come first. Shockwave predated it. Business decisions and the buying and selling of technology lead to flash being pushed into the position it's in now. Technology came before it, technology will come after it. Complacency due to ease of understanding is the worst thing we can do as students of technology.
Go find them yourself. Install Firefox and the Flashblock addon and then try to use the internet.
That would be true if you're talking the current Flash versions. But since Flash 10.1 (public release late this spring) offloads Flash code processing to the GPU, that right there drastically improves performance, .
You've got your tenses mixed. What you means is "if we believe the Adobe vaporware hype, then the problem will go away some day".
Early reviews on 10.1 are pretty dismal. Slow, choppy playback and long delays in using menus. If Adobe had wanted to develop decent software, they've had years to do so. Apple would be crazy to listen to them now.
If Adobe ever DOES release a decent version of Flash, Apple can always add it. But there's no rational reason why they should put a crappy version on now in the hopes that Adobe might some day learn how to write acceptable code.
All you Flash neysayers, and iPad doomsayers, should take a quick read here:
Adobe iPad App Blog
Why should anyone believe that Adobe's blog is unbiased? If Adobe had wanted to address the problem, they could have done so. They're the only ones who have access to the code. As it is, Flash is widely recognized as slow and buggy.
agreed
but if go a you walkin in the clouds bring a disc or 2 to back up your day
i just bought a dual BD machine for $125 AND RENT BD from NETFLIX
harry potter rocks
peace 9
I hope you're aware that making a copy of a rented BD from Netflix is illegal. Some of us have morals.
Total FUD
Actually, the word is control. Apple have said, in about as many words, that they do not want to cede control of the internet (and the money involved, lest we forget that) to a competitor's technology.
Watch "Activity Monitor" with YouTube.
2.8 GHz C2D MBP hits 50% with Flash video.
With the same video it hits less 15% with HTML5.
What does that say about Flash?
It says that Apple hasn't made it possible for Flash to use less CPU on the Mac. I hope they do.
Anyone who knows how to run Activity Monitor can observe that even the most trivial use of Flash within in a webpage eats up extraordinary resources. If Greenpeace were a legitimate environmental watchdog, it would target Flash as a bigger threat than PVC and BFRs combined, just by the composite amount of energy it consumes to do absolutely nothing of value.
The article is a pretty good and neutral summary of the Flash/noFlash discussion until it gets to the above paragraph!
This will be fun. first, we'll dispute that any mentioned site is critical. Then, if we start losing, we can redefine the word "critical".
The original article has a quote from someone at Adobe using that very phrase...
"Additionally, while Adobe says it is supporting open standards for the web related to HTML5, it still maintains that Flash is "critical to the web" while it also works to cement as much new content as possible into the proprietary mold of its Flash platform and the related Flex and AIR initiatives."
Again, I have not seen anyone give me 5 examples of how Flash is critical, but rather, I have only seen you try to parse words in an attempt to invalidate my question.
Go find them yourself. Install Firefox and the Flashblock addon and then try to use the internet.
I already have Flash blockers installed in Google Chrome on both my Mac and PC. Other than Zero Punctuation, I am not missing much really. And EVEN with Zero Punctuation, it's not like they couldn't make their videos play without Flash. Break.com has a mobile site that plays videos fine on the iPhone, but they also have an iPhone App on the AppStore.
Out of the umpteen hours a day I spend working online, nearly everything I have run into that uses Flash in some way, shape or form, has an alternative. File uploaders, RSS listings, scrollers, games (last i checked, Quake Live and Battlefield Heroes were not Flash, but a mix between a native browser plugin and on-site AJAX), web videos, ad banners (google ads are images, text, html and javascript. rarely have I seen a Flash one).
Again, no one has taken up the task of honestly defending Flash by pointing out at least 5, as Adobe put it, "critical" needs for Flash on the web. Its almost like saying "IE6 is critical for the internet because otherwise you won't be able to properly access your online banking account".
For everything that can be done in Flash, there are alternate ways of doing them. Some of them may take a little extra elbow-grease, but the end result is well work the effort.
...
...
For everything else there's MasterCard.
"It says that Apple hasn't made it possible for Flash to use less CPU on the Mac. I hope they do."
How is Apple supposed to make Flash work on OS X? That's Adobe's job- Apple has no access to the software.
Not to mention, of course, that Flash is slow and buggy on all platforms.
Your post is a perfect example of the effect of irrational hatred of everything from Apple. You've lost any ability to think rationally when Apple is involved.
This is the 21st century! Why does everything now have to be coded? Where's the imagination on the part of Adobe?
Y that
I hope you're aware that making a copy of a rented BD from Netflix is illegal. Some of us have morals.
MORALS ??
Illegal copies ?
?me ??
dual mean it plays reg dvd and BD discs my fine feathered friend.
i rent BD FROM NF play them and return them.
HOW or why do you think that i make copies ??
and some have morals ??? like no sex with 2 chicks at once morals or
buying bootleg movies morals ??
please don't bible thump on my dime dude !!
hrrfpf
9
Whether it was lack of multi tasking on OS 9 or lack of multi tasking (on official iphones), or IPAD, and the closed and tightly controlled nature of these new platforms, Apple has been on the wrong side of history.
Thanks.
Try to use http://rentzsch.github.com/clicktoflash/ and see how fast your mac suddenly is browsing through the net, and how fine youtube can be in Quicktime . I think this is the best proof for Steve Jobs to be right .
But your screen winds up looking so fugly - so like what's the point?
I look forward to buying an iPad and enjoying the best web browsing experience, unencumbered by stinking, useless Adobe Flash?.
But your screen winds up looking so fugly - so like what's the point?
I'm surprised no one has mentioned how much a control freak Steve Jobs is. He nor Apple cannot control it. That's one of the major reasons why Flash isn't on the iPhone or iPad, nor will it be.
Mind you, I think that attitude helped him bring Apple back from the brink.
Does it have to be a love/hate fest? I agree with Adobe - I think Apple has the horsepower to run flash on the ipad, so they should allow it. When the iPhone came out they said it lacked the muscle to do flash well. Now the excuses are stability and that its not a "standard." Well, it's used all over the place, and will continue to do so for some time.
I do not love Flash - I agree that it crashes a lot and doesn't seem to work well at all with Chrome. But its a reality of hte internet so it should be on the iPad.
Internet in your hand . . . a load of bulls***t. I'll still get one, but I hope somehting changes.
It's very likely that flash wouldn't perform well on an iPad. Remember that not only is flash optimized for PCs but it is even more so optimized for Intel architecture. If you put Flash on an AppleTV this can be seen when trying to watch a hulu video in 360p, just a horrible experience.
Apple is rightly proclaiming that people should stop settling for crap from Adobe & push the web in a direction where you don't need a big beefy computer to run simple flash games or video! Anyone wanting to know what such a world looks like without flash need only install clicktoflash. Not having flash isn't really all that prohibitive for the average web browser, in fact most big name sites have moved to alternatives.
It's very likely that flash wouldn't perform well on an iPad. Remember that not only is flash optimized for PCs but it is even more so optimized for Intel architecture. If you put Flash on an AppleTV this can be seen when trying to watch a hulu video in 360p, just a horrible experience.
Apple is rightly proclaiming that people should stop settling for crap from Adobe & push the web in a direction where you don't need a big beefy computer to run simple flash games or video! Anyone wanting to know what such a world looks like without flash need only install clicktoflash. Not having flash isn't really all that prohibitive for the average web browser, in fact most big name sites have moved to alternatives.
Oh? And the answer is to settle for crap from Apple? I don't think so.
Oh? And the answer is to settle for crap from Apple? I don't think so.
The answer is Apple can choose how to support its products, Adobe can choose how to support its products and you can choose not to buy or use products from companies that don't suit your needs. It's absolutely great system!