Now you think they'd be a good cellular smartphone hardware developer AND OS designer?
Umm, that's why they buy Palm, to develop the hardware and software-the shit they DON'T have expertise at. Verizon and ATT have the financial wherewithal to allow Palm to continue developing smart phones. That's their main problem right now. They have a pretty nice phone, with a little more polish it might gain traction.
Before you pan Palm, have you used one? They aren't that bad. In fact they're pretty good. They are my favorite after the iPhone. My wife has an Android phone and I wish she had the Pre instead, but it wasn't offered by Verizon when I got her a new phone.
Could ATT or Verizon screw it up if they bought out Palm? Sure. I'm just saying that it makes sense from their point of view since they likely don't see themselves as screw-ups. And I'm certainly NOT saying it would be good for users.
The DROID was released just like you said and it enjoyed 1 million+ sales so far. I think it all boiled down to bad marketing (that woman was kind of creepy) and those tiny raindrop buttons.
True but the point is that even with 1 million units sold, it is still not going to save Palm.
What Motorola did is what Palm should have done, they released the Milestone (GSM version) shortly after the DROID, which allowed them to make sales in the rest of the world.
If Palm had released a GSM version of the Pre shortly and not waited for such a long time, they would have sold tons more.
It's pretty unfortunate about Palm. Just my $0.02, but perhaps all the handset manufacturers should take a page/note from the GMs and Chryslers of the world wherein there was too much product overlap combined with loss of quality control that clouded consumer perception. This way of thinking ultimately led to the demise of many of those automotive brands - the same could be said about current handset devices. To me, it's really hard to distinguish Android devices one from another. Simply put, less is more.
Umm, that's why they buy Palm, to develop the hardware and software-the shit they DON'T have expertise at. Verizon and ATT have the financial wherewithal to allow Palm to continue developing smart phones. That's their main problem right now. They have a pretty nice phone, with a little more polish it might gain traction.
Yes... but you are giving AT&T (and/or) Verizon far too much credit... Do you think they would buy Palm and let it function as an independent unit and simply fund the people responsible for the development? I'm not going to far out on the limb when I say... Fat chance in hell...
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
Before you pan Palm, have you used one? They aren't that bad. In fact they're pretty good. They are my favorite after the iPhone. My wife has an Android phone and I wish she had the Pre instead, but it wasn't offered by Verizon when I got her a new phone.
I'm not panning Palm.. What I'm saying is they moved FAR TOO SLOWLY and it was a mistake they couldn't afford to make.
Once upon a shot time ago, PALM had it ALL... They were the undisputed KING of the PDA world, they were in the shirt or coat pockets of doctors, lawyers and business professionals world wide. They had the undivided attention of app developers EVERYWHERE. Then they kicked back and basked in what they achieved... Unfortunately they basked for far to long and were slammed broadside by the smartphone revolution. Palm made the mistake of looking at the CRAP the existing cell phone developers were trying to pass off as 'smart phones' and though they had plenty of time and/or nothing to worry about. Unfortunately they didn't see Apple speeding along at 100 MPH in the carpool lane with an EZ Pass in the windshield.
By the time Palm came too, Apple had not only eaten their lunch but was well on their way to finishing their dinner AND desert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac
Could ATT or Verizon screw it up if they bought out Palm? Sure. I'm just saying that it makes sense from their point of view since they likely don't see themselves as screw-ups. And I'm certainly NOT saying it would be good for users.
Could they screw it up? You are giving them far too much credit. If either company announced a Palm buyout Wall Street would be laughing their collective ass off, right after they finished shorting the buyers stock...
A cellular carrier buying a cell phone developer makes almost as much sense as an asphalt company buying a car maker.
I think Palm sowed the seeds of its own destruction years ago, when they began licensing Palm OS, and they pretty much sealed their fate when they lost control of it by spinning it off as PalmSource. Generally bad management through the years didn't help much either, and they basically cheapened and destroyed their own brand: one day they had the hottest gadget in the tech world, and a few years later no one even knew what they had. They may have had an opportunity to turn things around in the past, but by the time Rubinstein came on board, they were already pretty much doomed, and webOS could have been iPhone OS, and the Pre the iPhone, and the marketing perfect, and they still would have failed because they were already a failure in the public mind.
Yes, I agree -- especially on the licensing fiasco. Remembering that one of their first big license deals was with Handspring, which a few years later, they essentially had to eat by reabsorbing Handspring. What a mess. Just one example of the hazards of licensing other companies to sell your own products and go into direct competition with you. Bad business all around.
Yes... but you are giving AT&T (and/or) Verizon far too much credit... Do you think they would buy Palm and let it function as an independent unit and simply fund the people responsible for the development? I'm not going to far out on the limb when I say... Fat chance in hell...
I'm not panning Palm.. What I'm saying is they moved FAR TOO SLOWLY and it was a mistake they couldn't afford to make.
Once upon a shot time ago, PALM had it ALL... They were the undisputed KING of the PDA world, they were in the shirt or coat pockets of doctors, lawyers and business professionals world wide. They had the undivided attention of app developers EVERYWHERE. Then they kicked back and basked in what they achieved... Unfortunately they basked for far to long and were slammed broadside by the smartphone revolution. Palm made the mistake of looking at the CRAP the existing cell phone developers were trying to pass off as 'smart phones' and though they had plenty of time and/or nothing to worry about. Unfortunately they didn't see Apple speeding along at 100 MPH in the carpool lane with an EZ Pass in the windshield.
By the time Palm came too, Apple had not only eaten their lunch but was well on their way to finishing their dinner AND desert.
Could they screw it up? You are giving them far too much credit. If either company announced a Palm buyout Wall Street would be laughing their collective ass off, right after they finished shorting the buyers stock...
A cellular carrier buying a cell phone developer makes almost as much sense as an asphalt company buying a car maker.
Let me get this straight. Your argument is that ATT and Verizon sux and that Palm is for geezers, therefore it doesn't make any sense? I would expect that argument from Techstud or some other troll but I surprised you haven't come up with something better.
Look at Verizon's and ATT earnings. They could easily swallow Palm, which has a market cap of roughly 650 million, and barely blink an eye. If it doesn't work out it would affect earnings for one quarter maybe. There is value in Palm IP. Who is willing to pay for it remains to be seen. Maybe no one will.
Palm Pre was developed primarily before the finantial injection, so the first models were plagged with problems at the hardware level, and the SDK was something left a little behind.
But what really killed it was the lack of availability world wide, it's top management decisions, and the press...that inflated their ego enourmously.
For each country where Iphone was being sold locked in a single carrier, there were 2 carriers available to market the pre. It didn't happen, usually with Marketing budgets combined bigger than the first one.
And now Pre Plus, is what the pre should have been from the first... but only almost 2 years after the initial surprise and amazement it garnered... and 2 years is a lot of Time To Market default.
About Nokia and MS beeing just like palm... talk about "boyism".
If Nokia desires so, it starts bundling Symbian S60 in every low level phone and Maemo on the top ones... and then? All their phones will be "smart". How's that for a market share?
And MS is doing the right thing. Ask anyone in the market.
If they stick to Windows Mobile 6.5 and its "developed software" they won't be able to pull away from the stylus, and every mistake made in the last 10 years of closed thinking.
My bet goes entirely to MS. A new approach away from the geek and the professional level, attacking directly the ones that use their iphones for phone, email and gaming. That must be like 90% of iphone users...and 50% os wmobile users.
me and my pre will float around and if need be, go down with the ship. If Sprint had iPhone, I have chosen that. I hate Google and their Android and Blackberry isn't fo me... The Pre has been solid and webOS is a joy to use.
As for Palm, Gizmodo wrote that the advertising was of key concern, and I'd agree. iPhone's ads simply showed a hand using the iPhone to do what it does, with some enhancement. Simple. To the point. The Pre's weird girl didn't tell me anything about what the device did. I like off-beat commercials and it even put me off. They should've ripped off Apple's commercials only with a different color background, taken the hit that comes with doing that, and moved on to enjoy their higher sales and thus increased developer action. Show how it works, otherwise people think it's just another confusing phone from one of the also-ran manufacturers. That was a far bigger problem that received less attention than the iTunes fiasco.
Apple's iPhone ads are very effective. But that does not mean Palm should just duplicate them, because then what is Palm's message exactly- "Hey look we have apps just like iPhone!" Except they have much less apps to show.
Actually, this is a good example of Palm's larger problem. When Apple succeeds it's generally due to simple, direct design, this also goes for the advertising. But Palm can't simply duplicate this, because the iPhone is already a smashing success with 2-year head start. Multi-tasking is nice, but seems to be a battery hog (which is why Apple hasn't added system-wide multitasking yet), plus it's a power user feature, not something you can hang your hat on for a larger audience.
I agree with previous posts that basically said while WebOS had some nice wrinkles (cards), it added little actual value on top of what iPhone already does. That being the case, it's going to be hard to come up with really compelling advertising. Generally when there is questionable advertising for a new product, there are often issues with the product itself.
Microsoft has added a couple more wrinkles and has a lot more money. I'm not sure their OS really adds that much more to the game, but I hope they do make it a viable platform, if only to give Apple more competition to push them.
I agree. A better strategy would be to offer it as a UI option rather than as a 'take it or leave it.'
Interesting mindset, considering "take it or leave it" is pretty much Apple's whole approach to the iPhone.
True, the UI is not for everyone (as you demonstrate). But as someone said, swiping replaces button pressing in this case. So either you set an option to turn it to buttons (basically the same thing; 4 taps instead of 4 swipes) or you create two different OSs. There might be another way to do it. Can to explain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee
I just watched the video and yes scrolling was left to right and then swiping up (on screen keyboard)... etc... perhaps you didn't watch it close enough.
If you still can't see it... its about 45 seconds INTO the video... the person pans right and right and then back left a little and then down (up swipe) and then jumps to an onscreen keyboard...
The most random UI navigation I've ever seen -- given the content that was being shown.
Yea had it been a GEOGRAPHIC MAP or BUILDING BLUEPRINT sure... but that just looked like you could randomly swipe all over the place and still be shown something... Very odd.
Watch the video AND YOU TELL ME what happens at 45-55 seconds into that video.
I guess I misinterpreted what your point of view. So we're on the same page that to get from panel to panel within the hub you scroll left-to-right and to view information on that given panel, you scroll up and down.
So yes, if you layed out all the information, you are right (I didn't get what you were talking about until now), it's a giant mat.
However, it is not free scrolling like Google Maps (as you implied earlier). It's movement is more like the XBar on the PS3 and PSP.
From all the videos I saw, when you scroll left or right to change to the next panel, you automatically are placed at the top of the vertical scroll column, not at some random position in the vertical.
As someone else has said, swiping left and right is would be the same as pressing a button to display another page if you were using an iPhone app. I see where you would feel confused, since unlike a button, you can't label a swipe. But I bet you'll find that there is a linear progression to the swipes. Swiping left/right from the panel you're on will always lead to the same next panel. Just like how on the iPhone, a series of button presses will always lead you to those same screens.
The interesting thing I pull from this is that you scream "COPYCAT!" when an OS like Android is released that's also has a similar operating function as iPhone OS (apps in a grid, press an app to start app, etc) and yell for innovation. But when MS redesigns their mobile OS completely with an innovative way to display the same information, you scream "TOO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'RE USED TO!" and yell for it to be more "normal"...
Palm bet the farm on the charred remains of their flagging reputation and a bankroll from Elevation Partners. They waited far too long and made some very bad decisions that compromised their reputation. As they managed to gasp out the Pre and Pixi with the money from EP, they didn't marshal their resources enough to bring out the right combination of promotion, advertising and support for what arguably is a really decent mobile device concept. It remains to be seen if EP will continue to pour money into Palm or simply write them off as a risky attempt and move on.
I think the bolded part alone doomed Palm regardless of advertising, promotion, and support. WebOS needed to be a lot more than what 'arguably is a really decent mobile device concept.' (and I completely agree with your statement.) Deliver a great product, and then the rest will actually be easier to deliver as well.
If they had come out with webOS earlier (say when they were messing around with their customized Windows phones), they probably would have had a good chance. But to release a 'pretty good' product after iPhone had gathered a lot of success and momentum, that is too little too late.
The iPhone entered a very different world than everything that came after it. The iPhone was created to solve some very real problems in this market. It changed everything about the smart phone industry as we knew it. The Pre solved no problems. It's core purpose was to be an anti-iPhone. Palm's only goal was continued existence. In that, at least, the Pre was successful. It held off the Reaper for another year or two. I have no sympathy for Palm and I can't wait to see them die the bad death they so richly deserve. They jettisoned everything that was positive about the company and traded it in for a few months of iPhone envy. They are the Psystar of the cell phone world and have no reason to live. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
While I wouldn't exactly wish good riddance to Palm, the statements about the iPhone are spot-on. After iPhone, everyone came out with their glass screen capacitance touchscreen phones. But what are companies bringing new to the table? What is next, that truly improves the user experience?
I suspect we may not know, until Apple's first major rev of the iPhone. I don't necessarily wish this was the case, but I suspect it will be.
I'm not panning Palm.. What I'm saying is they moved FAR TOO SLOWLY and it was a mistake they couldn't afford to make.
Once upon a shot time ago, PALM had it ALL... They were the undisputed KING of the PDA world, they were in the shirt or coat pockets of doctors, lawyers and business professionals world wide. They had the undivided attention of app developers EVERYWHERE. Then they kicked back and basked in what they achieved... Unfortunately they basked for far to long and were slammed broadside by the smartphone revolution. Palm made the mistake of looking at the CRAP the existing cell phone developers were trying to pass off as 'smart phones' and though they had plenty of time and/or nothing to worry about. Unfortunately they didn't see Apple speeding along at 100 MPH in the carpool lane with an EZ Pass in the windshield.
I think after Palm's initial great success with the Pilot, they became far too inwardly focused as a 'PDA company', and missed several boats, smartphones being the last. Had they set their sights a bit wider stratetically on being the 'mobile computing' company or the 'handheld technology' company, they might have not missed mobile messaging to Blackberry, mobile music and media to iPod, and now smartphones (which they actually had a good head start with Treo but then inexplicably fumbled away.)
I'm not saying it would have been easy, but as they were dominating the PDA market several other larger mobile technology markets were born, grew, and matured into far larger markets than theirs.
Instead, Palm spun their wheels with aborted OS's both in-house and purchased (BeOS), spin-offs and re-consolidations, and even diversions with competing OS's (their Windows Mobile phones). So much wasted effort and money, culminating in a final last push that was probably their best effort in years but not surprisingly 2 years too late.
Funny you mention usability, but PALM WEB OS came up exactly what's next for the user interaction with it's first implementation of synergy.
One Contact app to rule them all. It was Superamazing, simplyfying and direct.
From the usability stand point it was a mega plus when introduced... even now, 2 years down the road, motoblur, sonys X10 thinggy and even HTC sense UI doesn't come close to it... But when it went to stores... it wasn't already anything new because everyone was jumpstarting their offers... But they showed it working first.
Now if you are expecting a new Hardware interface every 3 years... forget it. I bet even Iphone with it's multi-million sales hasn't payed up for the development of multitouch capacitive screens... so we will be stuck with them for a little while.
Iphone brought it to mainstream, but touch screens were around for some time.
Reading some of the stuff recently regarding WinPhone 7, I have to say the AI pundits/writers seem more capable of doomsaying than tech journalism.
WP7 might seem like nothing special, compared to iPhone, but if you take a closer look at the technology, you would see a very interesting picture. WP7 apps will be built with Silverlight and other .NET frameworks. Dropping all the legacy Win Mobile stuff can be compared with Apple ditching Carbon - unpopular with a few developers, but with a significant upside.
While I'm sure iPhone will continue to be the standard-setting phone for a long time, I also believe Microsoft have a good chance of success with WP7, especially within the business segment.
.NET developers won't have much problem moving to WP7, it's the same language(s), the same developer tools, an SDK with pretty much the same capabilities that the full-fletched desktop versions. You'll be using Silverlight for the UI (similar to WPF on the desktop), the .NET compact framework for general programming (a scaled down, device targeted version of .NET), XNA (as in xbox gaming). And you have WCF (windows communication foundation) and (later) RIA Services for phone-server communication. I'm sure there will a SQL solution there too. Lastly, the .NET developer community is strong, and growing fast.
If you don't see the importance of all of this, then consider yourself behind the curve
Now, Microsoft still has to prove the UI works in everyday use. We'll see how that goes. But as far as building the software technology needed for a strong business and gaming phone platform, I don't have much doubt. They are on to something this time around.
Reading some of the stuff recently regarding WinPhone 7, I have to say the AI pundits/writers seem more capable of doomsaying than tech journalism.
WP7 might seem like nothing special, compared to iPhone, but if you take a closer look at the technology, you would see a very interesting picture. WP7 apps will be built with Silverlight and other .NET frameworks. Dropping all the legacy Win Mobile stuff can be compared with Apple ditching Carbon - unpopular with a few developers, but with a significant upside.
While I'm sure iPhone will continue to be the standard-setting phone for a long time, I also believe Microsoft have a good chance of success with WP7, especially within the business segment.
.NET developers won't have much problem moving to WP7, it's the same language(s), the same developer tools, an SDK with pretty much the same capabilities that the full-fletched desktop versions. You'll be using Silverlight for the UI (similar to WPF on the desktop), the .NET compact framework for general programming (a scaled down, device targeted version of .NET), XNA (as in xbox gaming). And you have WCF (windows communication foundation) and (later) RIA Services for phone-server communication. I'm sure there will a SQL solution there too. Lastly, the .NET developer community is strong, and growing fast.
If you don't see the importance of all of this, then consider yourself behind the curve
Now, Microsoft still has to prove the UI works in everyday use. We'll see how that goes. But as far as building the software technology needed for a strong business and gaming phone platform, I don't have much doubt. They are on to something this time around.
This is one thing that I agree MS has going in their favor over Palm. The tools they are making available to developers have been around for a while and people are familiar with them. From what I could tell, Palm's SDK was a brand-new thing and requires developers to "figure it out" before setting off with it.
And having them work cross-platform (WP7S, Windows 7, XBox) opens up new avenues. A game that you can start playing on your desktop or XBox and continue where you left off on WP7 and then back to the desktop or XBox sounds very nice. But we'll see how it develops...
Now, Microsoft still has to prove the UI works in everyday use. We'll see how that goes. But as far as building the software technology needed for a strong business and gaming phone platform, I don't have much doubt. They are on to something this time around.
So what you're really saying is, Microsoft has finally developed a mobile OS which is fully buzzword compliant. The rubber really hits the road on your last item, which points out Microsoft's biggest hurdles. First, they've never been particularly good at UI design, and second, they will be relying on licensees to implement well in hardware. All things considered, I don't know why we'd assume that they've got a winner on their hands this time when that model hasn't been very successful for them in the past.
Comments
Persiflage - what a great word. I wonder if you knew it or had to look it up like I did!
Had I the prescience that it existed, I would have looked it up!
*
Nokia? 'Maemo' OS to be merged with 'Moblin' OS to create 'MeeGo' OS, come on, it's for kids and the third world.
That's got nothing to do with third world.
Now you think they'd be a good cellular smartphone hardware developer AND OS designer?
Umm, that's why they buy Palm, to develop the hardware and software-the shit they DON'T have expertise at. Verizon and ATT have the financial wherewithal to allow Palm to continue developing smart phones. That's their main problem right now. They have a pretty nice phone, with a little more polish it might gain traction.
Before you pan Palm, have you used one? They aren't that bad. In fact they're pretty good. They are my favorite after the iPhone. My wife has an Android phone and I wish she had the Pre instead, but it wasn't offered by Verizon when I got her a new phone.
Could ATT or Verizon screw it up if they bought out Palm? Sure. I'm just saying that it makes sense from their point of view since they likely don't see themselves as screw-ups. And I'm certainly NOT saying it would be good for users.
The DROID was released just like you said and it enjoyed 1 million+ sales so far. I think it all boiled down to bad marketing (that woman was kind of creepy) and those tiny raindrop buttons.
True but the point is that even with 1 million units sold, it is still not going to save Palm.
What Motorola did is what Palm should have done, they released the Milestone (GSM version) shortly after the DROID, which allowed them to make sales in the rest of the world.
If Palm had released a GSM version of the Pre shortly and not waited for such a long time, they would have sold tons more.
I didn't buy one though because the screen was small (and rounded, wtf is up with that?)
Umm, that's why they buy Palm, to develop the hardware and software-the shit they DON'T have expertise at. Verizon and ATT have the financial wherewithal to allow Palm to continue developing smart phones. That's their main problem right now. They have a pretty nice phone, with a little more polish it might gain traction.
Yes... but you are giving AT&T (and/or) Verizon far too much credit... Do you think they would buy Palm and let it function as an independent unit and simply fund the people responsible for the development? I'm not going to far out on the limb when I say... Fat chance in hell...
Before you pan Palm, have you used one? They aren't that bad. In fact they're pretty good. They are my favorite after the iPhone. My wife has an Android phone and I wish she had the Pre instead, but it wasn't offered by Verizon when I got her a new phone.
I'm not panning Palm.. What I'm saying is they moved FAR TOO SLOWLY and it was a mistake they couldn't afford to make.
Once upon a shot time ago, PALM had it ALL... They were the undisputed KING of the PDA world, they were in the shirt or coat pockets of doctors, lawyers and business professionals world wide. They had the undivided attention of app developers EVERYWHERE. Then they kicked back and basked in what they achieved... Unfortunately they basked for far to long and were slammed broadside by the smartphone revolution. Palm made the mistake of looking at the CRAP the existing cell phone developers were trying to pass off as 'smart phones' and though they had plenty of time and/or nothing to worry about. Unfortunately they didn't see Apple speeding along at 100 MPH in the carpool lane with an EZ Pass in the windshield.
By the time Palm came too, Apple had not only eaten their lunch but was well on their way to finishing their dinner AND desert.
Could ATT or Verizon screw it up if they bought out Palm? Sure. I'm just saying that it makes sense from their point of view since they likely don't see themselves as screw-ups. And I'm certainly NOT saying it would be good for users.
Could they screw it up? You are giving them far too much credit. If either company announced a Palm buyout Wall Street would be laughing their collective ass off, right after they finished shorting the buyers stock...
A cellular carrier buying a cell phone developer makes almost as much sense as an asphalt company buying a car maker.
I think Palm sowed the seeds of its own destruction years ago, when they began licensing Palm OS, and they pretty much sealed their fate when they lost control of it by spinning it off as PalmSource. Generally bad management through the years didn't help much either, and they basically cheapened and destroyed their own brand: one day they had the hottest gadget in the tech world, and a few years later no one even knew what they had. They may have had an opportunity to turn things around in the past, but by the time Rubinstein came on board, they were already pretty much doomed, and webOS could have been iPhone OS, and the Pre the iPhone, and the marketing perfect, and they still would have failed because they were already a failure in the public mind.
Yes, I agree -- especially on the licensing fiasco. Remembering that one of their first big license deals was with Handspring, which a few years later, they essentially had to eat by reabsorbing Handspring. What a mess. Just one example of the hazards of licensing other companies to sell your own products and go into direct competition with you. Bad business all around.
Yes... but you are giving AT&T (and/or) Verizon far too much credit... Do you think they would buy Palm and let it function as an independent unit and simply fund the people responsible for the development? I'm not going to far out on the limb when I say... Fat chance in hell...
I'm not panning Palm.. What I'm saying is they moved FAR TOO SLOWLY and it was a mistake they couldn't afford to make.
Once upon a shot time ago, PALM had it ALL... They were the undisputed KING of the PDA world, they were in the shirt or coat pockets of doctors, lawyers and business professionals world wide. They had the undivided attention of app developers EVERYWHERE. Then they kicked back and basked in what they achieved... Unfortunately they basked for far to long and were slammed broadside by the smartphone revolution. Palm made the mistake of looking at the CRAP the existing cell phone developers were trying to pass off as 'smart phones' and though they had plenty of time and/or nothing to worry about. Unfortunately they didn't see Apple speeding along at 100 MPH in the carpool lane with an EZ Pass in the windshield.
By the time Palm came too, Apple had not only eaten their lunch but was well on their way to finishing their dinner AND desert.
Could they screw it up? You are giving them far too much credit. If either company announced a Palm buyout Wall Street would be laughing their collective ass off, right after they finished shorting the buyers stock...
A cellular carrier buying a cell phone developer makes almost as much sense as an asphalt company buying a car maker.
Let me get this straight. Your argument is that ATT and Verizon sux and that Palm is for geezers, therefore it doesn't make any sense? I would expect that argument from Techstud or some other troll but I surprised you haven't come up with something better.
Look at Verizon's and ATT earnings. They could easily swallow Palm, which has a market cap of roughly 650 million, and barely blink an eye. If it doesn't work out it would affect earnings for one quarter maybe. There is value in Palm IP. Who is willing to pay for it remains to be seen. Maybe no one will.
But what really killed it was the lack of availability world wide, it's top management decisions, and the press...that inflated their ego enourmously.
For each country where Iphone was being sold locked in a single carrier, there were 2 carriers available to market the pre. It didn't happen, usually with Marketing budgets combined bigger than the first one.
And now Pre Plus, is what the pre should have been from the first... but only almost 2 years after the initial surprise and amazement it garnered... and 2 years is a lot of Time To Market default.
About Nokia and MS beeing just like palm... talk about "boyism".
If Nokia desires so, it starts bundling Symbian S60 in every low level phone and Maemo on the top ones... and then? All their phones will be "smart". How's that for a market share?
And MS is doing the right thing. Ask anyone in the market.
If they stick to Windows Mobile 6.5 and its "developed software" they won't be able to pull away from the stylus, and every mistake made in the last 10 years of closed thinking.
My bet goes entirely to MS. A new approach away from the geek and the professional level, attacking directly the ones that use their iphones for phone, email and gaming. That must be like 90% of iphone users...and 50% os wmobile users.
As for Palm, Gizmodo wrote that the advertising was of key concern, and I'd agree. iPhone's ads simply showed a hand using the iPhone to do what it does, with some enhancement. Simple. To the point. The Pre's weird girl didn't tell me anything about what the device did. I like off-beat commercials and it even put me off. They should've ripped off Apple's commercials only with a different color background, taken the hit that comes with doing that, and moved on to enjoy their higher sales and thus increased developer action. Show how it works, otherwise people think it's just another confusing phone from one of the also-ran manufacturers. That was a far bigger problem that received less attention than the iTunes fiasco.
Apple's iPhone ads are very effective. But that does not mean Palm should just duplicate them, because then what is Palm's message exactly- "Hey look we have apps just like iPhone!" Except they have much less apps to show.
Actually, this is a good example of Palm's larger problem. When Apple succeeds it's generally due to simple, direct design, this also goes for the advertising. But Palm can't simply duplicate this, because the iPhone is already a smashing success with 2-year head start. Multi-tasking is nice, but seems to be a battery hog (which is why Apple hasn't added system-wide multitasking yet), plus it's a power user feature, not something you can hang your hat on for a larger audience.
I agree with previous posts that basically said while WebOS had some nice wrinkles (cards), it added little actual value on top of what iPhone already does. That being the case, it's going to be hard to come up with really compelling advertising. Generally when there is questionable advertising for a new product, there are often issues with the product itself.
Microsoft has added a couple more wrinkles and has a lot more money. I'm not sure their OS really adds that much more to the game, but I hope they do make it a viable platform, if only to give Apple more competition to push them.
I agree. A better strategy would be to offer it as a UI option rather than as a 'take it or leave it.'
Interesting mindset, considering "take it or leave it" is pretty much Apple's whole approach to the iPhone.
True, the UI is not for everyone (as you demonstrate). But as someone said, swiping replaces button pressing in this case. So either you set an option to turn it to buttons (basically the same thing; 4 taps instead of 4 swipes) or you create two different OSs. There might be another way to do it. Can to explain?
I just watched the video and yes scrolling was left to right and then swiping up (on screen keyboard)... etc... perhaps you didn't watch it close enough.
If you still can't see it... its about 45 seconds INTO the video... the person pans right and right and then back left a little and then down (up swipe) and then jumps to an onscreen keyboard...
The most random UI navigation I've ever seen -- given the content that was being shown.
Yea had it been a GEOGRAPHIC MAP or BUILDING BLUEPRINT sure... but that just looked like you could randomly swipe all over the place and still be shown something... Very odd.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q43jJ7slrGU
Watch the video AND YOU TELL ME what happens at 45-55 seconds into that video.
I guess I misinterpreted what your point of view. So we're on the same page that to get from panel to panel within the hub you scroll left-to-right and to view information on that given panel, you scroll up and down.
So yes, if you layed out all the information, you are right (I didn't get what you were talking about until now), it's a giant mat.
However, it is not free scrolling like Google Maps (as you implied earlier). It's movement is more like the XBar on the PS3 and PSP.
From all the videos I saw, when you scroll left or right to change to the next panel, you automatically are placed at the top of the vertical scroll column, not at some random position in the vertical.
As someone else has said, swiping left and right is would be the same as pressing a button to display another page if you were using an iPhone app. I see where you would feel confused, since unlike a button, you can't label a swipe. But I bet you'll find that there is a linear progression to the swipes. Swiping left/right from the panel you're on will always lead to the same next panel. Just like how on the iPhone, a series of button presses will always lead you to those same screens.
The interesting thing I pull from this is that you scream "COPYCAT!" when an OS like Android is released that's also has a similar operating function as iPhone OS (apps in a grid, press an app to start app, etc) and yell for innovation. But when MS redesigns their mobile OS completely with an innovative way to display the same information, you scream "TOO DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'RE USED TO!" and yell for it to be more "normal"...
Palm bet the farm on the charred remains of their flagging reputation and a bankroll from Elevation Partners. They waited far too long and made some very bad decisions that compromised their reputation. As they managed to gasp out the Pre and Pixi with the money from EP, they didn't marshal their resources enough to bring out the right combination of promotion, advertising and support for what arguably is a really decent mobile device concept. It remains to be seen if EP will continue to pour money into Palm or simply write them off as a risky attempt and move on.
I think the bolded part alone doomed Palm regardless of advertising, promotion, and support. WebOS needed to be a lot more than what 'arguably is a really decent mobile device concept.' (and I completely agree with your statement.) Deliver a great product, and then the rest will actually be easier to deliver as well.
If they had come out with webOS earlier (say when they were messing around with their customized Windows phones), they probably would have had a good chance. But to release a 'pretty good' product after iPhone had gathered a lot of success and momentum, that is too little too late.
The iPhone entered a very different world than everything that came after it. The iPhone was created to solve some very real problems in this market. It changed everything about the smart phone industry as we knew it. The Pre solved no problems. It's core purpose was to be an anti-iPhone. Palm's only goal was continued existence. In that, at least, the Pre was successful. It held off the Reaper for another year or two. I have no sympathy for Palm and I can't wait to see them die the bad death they so richly deserve. They jettisoned everything that was positive about the company and traded it in for a few months of iPhone envy. They are the Psystar of the cell phone world and have no reason to live. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
While I wouldn't exactly wish good riddance to Palm, the statements about the iPhone are spot-on. After iPhone, everyone came out with their glass screen capacitance touchscreen phones. But what are companies bringing new to the table? What is next, that truly improves the user experience?
I suspect we may not know, until Apple's first major rev of the iPhone. I don't necessarily wish this was the case, but I suspect it will be.
I'm not panning Palm.. What I'm saying is they moved FAR TOO SLOWLY and it was a mistake they couldn't afford to make.
Once upon a shot time ago, PALM had it ALL... They were the undisputed KING of the PDA world, they were in the shirt or coat pockets of doctors, lawyers and business professionals world wide. They had the undivided attention of app developers EVERYWHERE. Then they kicked back and basked in what they achieved... Unfortunately they basked for far to long and were slammed broadside by the smartphone revolution. Palm made the mistake of looking at the CRAP the existing cell phone developers were trying to pass off as 'smart phones' and though they had plenty of time and/or nothing to worry about. Unfortunately they didn't see Apple speeding along at 100 MPH in the carpool lane with an EZ Pass in the windshield.
I think after Palm's initial great success with the Pilot, they became far too inwardly focused as a 'PDA company', and missed several boats, smartphones being the last. Had they set their sights a bit wider stratetically on being the 'mobile computing' company or the 'handheld technology' company, they might have not missed mobile messaging to Blackberry, mobile music and media to iPod, and now smartphones (which they actually had a good head start with Treo but then inexplicably fumbled away.)
I'm not saying it would have been easy, but as they were dominating the PDA market several other larger mobile technology markets were born, grew, and matured into far larger markets than theirs.
Instead, Palm spun their wheels with aborted OS's both in-house and purchased (BeOS), spin-offs and re-consolidations, and even diversions with competing OS's (their Windows Mobile phones). So much wasted effort and money, culminating in a final last push that was probably their best effort in years but not surprisingly 2 years too late.
One Contact app to rule them all. It was Superamazing, simplyfying and direct.
From the usability stand point it was a mega plus when introduced... even now, 2 years down the road, motoblur, sonys X10 thinggy and even HTC sense UI doesn't come close to it... But when it went to stores... it wasn't already anything new because everyone was jumpstarting their offers... But they showed it working first.
Now if you are expecting a new Hardware interface every 3 years... forget it. I bet even Iphone with it's multi-million sales hasn't payed up for the development of multitouch capacitive screens... so we will be stuck with them for a little while.
Iphone brought it to mainstream, but touch screens were around for some time.
WP7 might seem like nothing special, compared to iPhone, but if you take a closer look at the technology, you would see a very interesting picture. WP7 apps will be built with Silverlight and other .NET frameworks. Dropping all the legacy Win Mobile stuff can be compared with Apple ditching Carbon - unpopular with a few developers, but with a significant upside.
While I'm sure iPhone will continue to be the standard-setting phone for a long time, I also believe Microsoft have a good chance of success with WP7, especially within the business segment.
.NET developers won't have much problem moving to WP7, it's the same language(s), the same developer tools, an SDK with pretty much the same capabilities that the full-fletched desktop versions. You'll be using Silverlight for the UI (similar to WPF on the desktop), the .NET compact framework for general programming (a scaled down, device targeted version of .NET), XNA (as in xbox gaming). And you have WCF (windows communication foundation) and (later) RIA Services for phone-server communication. I'm sure there will a SQL solution there too. Lastly, the .NET developer community is strong, and growing fast.
If you don't see the importance of all of this, then consider yourself behind the curve
Now, Microsoft still has to prove the UI works in everyday use. We'll see how that goes. But as far as building the software technology needed for a strong business and gaming phone platform, I don't have much doubt. They are on to something this time around.
Reading some of the stuff recently regarding WinPhone 7, I have to say the AI pundits/writers seem more capable of doomsaying than tech journalism.
WP7 might seem like nothing special, compared to iPhone, but if you take a closer look at the technology, you would see a very interesting picture. WP7 apps will be built with Silverlight and other .NET frameworks. Dropping all the legacy Win Mobile stuff can be compared with Apple ditching Carbon - unpopular with a few developers, but with a significant upside.
While I'm sure iPhone will continue to be the standard-setting phone for a long time, I also believe Microsoft have a good chance of success with WP7, especially within the business segment.
.NET developers won't have much problem moving to WP7, it's the same language(s), the same developer tools, an SDK with pretty much the same capabilities that the full-fletched desktop versions. You'll be using Silverlight for the UI (similar to WPF on the desktop), the .NET compact framework for general programming (a scaled down, device targeted version of .NET), XNA (as in xbox gaming). And you have WCF (windows communication foundation) and (later) RIA Services for phone-server communication. I'm sure there will a SQL solution there too. Lastly, the .NET developer community is strong, and growing fast.
If you don't see the importance of all of this, then consider yourself behind the curve
Now, Microsoft still has to prove the UI works in everyday use. We'll see how that goes. But as far as building the software technology needed for a strong business and gaming phone platform, I don't have much doubt. They are on to something this time around.
This is one thing that I agree MS has going in their favor over Palm. The tools they are making available to developers have been around for a while and people are familiar with them. From what I could tell, Palm's SDK was a brand-new thing and requires developers to "figure it out" before setting off with it.
And having them work cross-platform (WP7S, Windows 7, XBox) opens up new avenues. A game that you can start playing on your desktop or XBox and continue where you left off on WP7 and then back to the desktop or XBox sounds very nice. But we'll see how it develops...
Now, Microsoft still has to prove the UI works in everyday use. We'll see how that goes. But as far as building the software technology needed for a strong business and gaming phone platform, I don't have much doubt. They are on to something this time around.
So what you're really saying is, Microsoft has finally developed a mobile OS which is fully buzzword compliant. The rubber really hits the road on your last item, which points out Microsoft's biggest hurdles. First, they've never been particularly good at UI design, and second, they will be relying on licensees to implement well in hardware. All things considered, I don't know why we'd assume that they've got a winner on their hands this time when that model hasn't been very successful for them in the past.