Whoa whoa, did internet explorer seriously lose that much steam in the past couple years?
I just checked the W3schools OS usage and Windows is 86% which by my rough calculations indicats that only 1/3 Windows users actually use IE, the rest FF, Cr, Safari, etc.
I noticed Opera Mini kicks you out of its browser and into Safari to show video.
I noticed this too on one of our mobile sites. The problem is: we use user agent detection in javascript to stream one video format (h.264) to iPhone / iPod Touch, and another video format (3gp) to everything else. So now Opera Mini relays the video url to Safari, but with the user agent string "broken", Safari tries to open the wrong format.
How the hell are you supposed to detect "Opera Mini on iPhone" ?
I noticed this too on one of our mobile sites. The problem is: we use user agent detection in javascript to stream one video format (h.264) to iPhone / iPod Touch, and another video format (3gp) to everything else. So now Opera Mini relays the video url to Safari, but with the user agent string "broken", Safari tries to open the wrong format.
How the hell are you supposed to detect "Opera Mini on iPhone" ?
try some part of this
Opera/9.80 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/$CLIENT_VERSION/$SERVER_VERSION; U; $LANGUAGE) Presto/$PRESTO_VERSION
Opera/9.80 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/5.0.0176/1150; U; en) Presto/2.4.15
Opera/9.50 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/4.0.10031/298; U; en)
which is Opera Mini for Blackberry
Thanks for the suggestion. Some googlin' lead me to this page: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2...mini-on-iphone, but I'm still not sure if the suggested string is specifically for Opera-on-iPhone. Will have to test, because I still want to point Opera Mini on Blackberry (and other devices) to the 3gp url
Thanks for the suggestion. Some googlin' lead me to this page: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2...mini-on-iphone, but I'm still not sure if the suggested string is specifically for Opera-on-iPhone. Will have to test, because I still want to point Opera Mini on Blackberry (and other devices) to the 3gp url
What a shame that Opera has totally failed capitalise on this opportunity. What were they thinking? The App totally misses the mark in terms of native iPhone UI standards and its page rendering is just as shocking as its desktop counterpart. ... What were they thinking?
I don't like the look either, but in their defence, practically the whole raison d'être for Opera is their "unique" interfaces. They believe that their wacky interfaces are great and "different" and "creative" and all that good stuff.
Judging by market share, most people don't agree and the reason I hear most from people as to why they don't use Opera is "it's ugly" or "it's weird" or something similar about the unique UI.
So while it may seem strange to you, it's hardly unexpected that Opera would fail to follow standard UI practices or try to "fit in" look and feel wise. It would be weirder if they made something that looked like it belonged.
I don't like the look either, but in their defence, practically the whole raison d'être for Opera is their "unique" interfaces. They believe that their wacky interfaces are great and "different" and "creative" and all that good stuff.
Judging by market share, most people don't agree and the reason I hear most from people as to why they don't use Opera is "it's ugly" or "it's weird" or something similar about the unique UI.
Judging by market share isn't something Mac users should do
I don't like the look either, but in their defence, practically the whole raison d'être for Opera is their "unique" interfaces. They believe that their wacky interfaces are great and "different" and "creative" and all that good stuff.
Judging by market share, most people don't agree and the reason I hear most from people as to why they don't use Opera is "it's ugly" or "it's weird" or something similar about the unique UI.
So while it may seem strange to you, it's hardly unexpected that Opera would fail to follow standard UI practices or try to "fit in" look and feel wise. It would be weirder if they made something that looked like it belonged.
I can forgive the uniqueness on mac/windows/linux but on something like iphone where you expect certain gestures (which are freely available in the dev-kit) to be used it just wrenches you out of that muscle memory state
The simple fact that the page cannot be viewed without zooming at all and then its a single level of zoom is just lazy and sloppy ...
My point originally was that they had a tremendous opportunity with their iPhone app to make Opera a viable, popular, serious competitor to Safari on a platform that enjoys a lions share of mobile browsing ....
To miss the mark so wildly with an app that could have brought them a serious market share is just careless and speaks greatly to the whole company and direction...
They missed their shot at this.... all eyes were watching to see if Apple let them in ... the fact they did and the app is poor just looks bad for opera now
No shot has been missed for anyone who has jailbroke to Tmobile or who has questionable 3G coverage this program is a godsend. It reduces the necessary download by 80-90% in many cases. Even if it has some display glitches at times it is likely due to the reduction of data. I mean seriously. If you are behind a big hill, in a thick building, whatever and this program can make 2G feel like 3G for free, what's to complain about?
I've got my iPhone on Tmobile where I get 1000 minutes unlimited text and data for $65 a month versus $90 at AT&T and that is with half as many voice minutes. If I had a 2G iPhone, I'd be all over this in a second.
This is no different than the $.99 camcorder apps. Do they turn a 3G into a 3GS, no but they are a great new feature for cheap/nothing. They don't have to be perfect, the standard or even what I would use at home on wi-fi. They can still be the solution to a problem though and Opera is a very good solution to a very common problem, questionable network coverage.
Opera could have made itself relavent again with this release onto such a prevalent platform (60%+ of mobile browser market)
60%? Uh, no. Opera has about 30% market share in the mobile browser market, whereas the iPhone has about 2%. Opera isn't just "relevant". It's the dominant mobile phone browser.
Also, why would they spend too much time tweaking their UI to fit on the iPhone before they even knew for sure that it would be approved? Now that it's approved they can start doing serious UI work.
Quote:
No pinch to zoom / granular zooming
Tap to zoom instead.
Quote:
What were they thinking?
That they wanted to see if they were allowed onto the iPhone before putting serious resources on the project?
This is one app that sucks horribly. Nothing about it is good, at all.
Apart from the instant back navigation, superior tabbed browsing, text search on pages, fullscreen surfing, etc.? Come on, if you can't find anything good to say about it you are clearly blinded by Apple fanboyism.
Quote:
Speed? There is no speed. This is, at best, half as fast as Safari.
In that case there's a problem on your end, because it's definitely much faster for everyone else. Especially on 3G or slower connections.
Quote:
Tabs? They're not tabs. They're other windows, that take up less screen space than they should.
Yes, they are tabs. Safari's, however, aren't.
Quote:
And for the sake of memory usage, best practice is still to keep only one active window, or risk crashing.
That's an interesting comment, considering the crashing problems a lot of people are having with Safari.
Quote:
Guess what? There have been other (useful!) web browsers in the App Store since July 08.
Guess what? Those are not "browsers". They are skins for Safari.
Quote:
Notice all the advertising on Operas "app support" page?
I went to my favorite web site and Opera Mini forced me to the mobile version of the page. On Safari, I can choose between the regular web version and the mobile.
How is that Opera Mini forcing you? It's the site that decides whether you are sent to the mobile site or not, and if you are given a choice or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xStatiCa
I am sure they use the statistics from all that data to make money somehow.
No they don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
For instance, you can't do banking on Opera [it doesn't allow encryption] and it ignores sites that have special mobile set ups.
This is completely wrong. Opera doesn't only allow encryption, but all communication between the Opera Mini server and client is encrypted. So Opera Mini is in fact actually safer than other browsers on public wifi connections!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage
I am not sure why they went to all the trouble to bypass Cocoa Touch
They didn't. They just used their standard mobile browser UI. Using Cocoa Touch would have been "trouble", especially before they were sure that it would be approved.
Now that it's approved they can start considering doing more integration with the iPhone. Now they know there's actually a reason to do it.
WebKit is pretty much the only mobile browser engine anyone uses. Firefox has Fennec, but its pretty scarce. Pocket IE is absolutely terrible. Opera has a small share and renders pretty roughly, as the photos show.
Actually, Opera has about 30% of the mobile phone browser market. iPhone has about 20%. Opera is the dominant mobile phone browser.
3 - There's a bookmark that's called 'Find in page'.
4 - Guess what it does...
really? I don't see that. Maybe because I sync bookmarks to MobileMe and the Safari bookmarks from my Mac and PC don't have that 'bookmark' and overwrote the mobile Safari bookmarks....hmm
Would have been a useful feature....but why the hell would they put it in Bookmarks?
Comments
Whoa whoa, did internet explorer seriously lose that much steam in the past couple years?
I just checked the W3schools OS usage and Windows is 86% which by my rough calculations indicats that only 1/3 Windows users actually use IE, the rest FF, Cr, Safari, etc.
I noticed Opera Mini kicks you out of its browser and into Safari to show video.
I noticed this too on one of our mobile sites. The problem is: we use user agent detection in javascript to stream one video format (h.264) to iPhone / iPod Touch, and another video format (3gp) to everything else. So now Opera Mini relays the video url to Safari, but with the user agent string "broken", Safari tries to open the wrong format.
How the hell are you supposed to detect "Opera Mini on iPhone" ?
Huh? So WebKit is the standard engine on the web? Wow.
Among mobile browsers it is the leader & engine of choice, definitely not for desktops though.
I suspect the speed differences might be found in how text appears as lines. It may not be fully rendering all parts of the page until you zoom in.
I noticed this too on one of our mobile sites. The problem is: we use user agent detection in javascript to stream one video format (h.264) to iPhone / iPod Touch, and another video format (3gp) to everything else. So now Opera Mini relays the video url to Safari, but with the user agent string "broken", Safari tries to open the wrong format.
How the hell are you supposed to detect "Opera Mini on iPhone" ?
try some part of this
Opera/9.80 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/$CLIENT_VERSION/$SERVER_VERSION; U; $LANGUAGE) Presto/$PRESTO_VERSION
Opera/9.80 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/5.0.0176/1150; U; en) Presto/2.4.15
try some part of this
Opera/9.50 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/4.0.10031/298; U; en)
which is Opera Mini for Blackberry
Thanks for the suggestion. Some googlin' lead me to this page: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2...mini-on-iphone, but I'm still not sure if the suggested string is specifically for Opera-on-iPhone. Will have to test, because I still want to point Opera Mini on Blackberry (and other devices) to the 3gp url
Thanks for the suggestion. Some googlin' lead me to this page: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2...mini-on-iphone, but I'm still not sure if the suggested string is specifically for Opera-on-iPhone. Will have to test, because I still want to point Opera Mini on Blackberry (and other devices) to the 3gp url
http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/what-o...for-developers
You should use the HTTP header
HTTP_X_OPERAMINI_PHONE_UA
which returns
Apple # iPhone
What a shame that Opera has totally failed capitalise on this opportunity. What were they thinking? The App totally misses the mark in terms of native iPhone UI standards and its page rendering is just as shocking as its desktop counterpart. ... What were they thinking?
I don't like the look either, but in their defence, practically the whole raison d'être for Opera is their "unique" interfaces. They believe that their wacky interfaces are great and "different" and "creative" and all that good stuff.
Judging by market share, most people don't agree and the reason I hear most from people as to why they don't use Opera is "it's ugly" or "it's weird" or something similar about the unique UI.
So while it may seem strange to you, it's hardly unexpected that Opera would fail to follow standard UI practices or try to "fit in" look and feel wise. It would be weirder if they made something that looked like it belonged.
I don't like the look either, but in their defence, practically the whole raison d'être for Opera is their "unique" interfaces. They believe that their wacky interfaces are great and "different" and "creative" and all that good stuff.
Judging by market share, most people don't agree and the reason I hear most from people as to why they don't use Opera is "it's ugly" or "it's weird" or something similar about the unique UI.
Judging by market share isn't something Mac users should do
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidchinphoto/4517387319/
The text is much too small on Safari.
I don't like the look either, but in their defence, practically the whole raison d'être for Opera is their "unique" interfaces. They believe that their wacky interfaces are great and "different" and "creative" and all that good stuff.
Judging by market share, most people don't agree and the reason I hear most from people as to why they don't use Opera is "it's ugly" or "it's weird" or something similar about the unique UI.
So while it may seem strange to you, it's hardly unexpected that Opera would fail to follow standard UI practices or try to "fit in" look and feel wise. It would be weirder if they made something that looked like it belonged.
I can forgive the uniqueness on mac/windows/linux but on something like iphone where you expect certain gestures (which are freely available in the dev-kit) to be used it just wrenches you out of that muscle memory state
The simple fact that the page cannot be viewed without zooming at all and then its a single level of zoom is just lazy and sloppy ...
My point originally was that they had a tremendous opportunity with their iPhone app to make Opera a viable, popular, serious competitor to Safari on a platform that enjoys a lions share of mobile browsing ....
To miss the mark so wildly with an app that could have brought them a serious market share is just careless and speaks greatly to the whole company and direction...
They missed their shot at this.... all eyes were watching to see if Apple let them in ... the fact they did and the app is poor just looks bad for opera now
I've got my iPhone on Tmobile where I get 1000 minutes unlimited text and data for $65 a month versus $90 at AT&T and that is with half as many voice minutes. If I had a 2G iPhone, I'd be all over this in a second.
This is no different than the $.99 camcorder apps. Do they turn a 3G into a 3GS, no but they are a great new feature for cheap/nothing. They don't have to be perfect, the standard or even what I would use at home on wi-fi. They can still be the solution to a problem though and Opera is a very good solution to a very common problem, questionable network coverage.
Opera could have made itself relavent again with this release onto such a prevalent platform (60%+ of mobile browser market)
60%? Uh, no. Opera has about 30% market share in the mobile browser market, whereas the iPhone has about 2%. Opera isn't just "relevant". It's the dominant mobile phone browser.
Also, why would they spend too much time tweaking their UI to fit on the iPhone before they even knew for sure that it would be approved? Now that it's approved they can start doing serious UI work.
No pinch to zoom / granular zooming
Tap to zoom instead.
What were they thinking?
That they wanted to see if they were allowed onto the iPhone before putting serious resources on the project?
This is one app that sucks horribly. Nothing about it is good, at all.
Apart from the instant back navigation, superior tabbed browsing, text search on pages, fullscreen surfing, etc.? Come on, if you can't find anything good to say about it you are clearly blinded by Apple fanboyism.
Speed? There is no speed. This is, at best, half as fast as Safari.
In that case there's a problem on your end, because it's definitely much faster for everyone else. Especially on 3G or slower connections.
Tabs? They're not tabs. They're other windows, that take up less screen space than they should.
Yes, they are tabs. Safari's, however, aren't.
And for the sake of memory usage, best practice is still to keep only one active window, or risk crashing.
That's an interesting comment, considering the crashing problems a lot of people are having with Safari.
Guess what? There have been other (useful!) web browsers in the App Store since July 08.
Guess what? Those are not "browsers". They are skins for Safari.
Notice all the advertising on Operas "app support" page?
What ads?
2 - Navigate to the root of your bookmarks tree.
3 - There's a bookmark that's called 'Find in page'.
4 - Guess what it does...
I went to my favorite web site and Opera Mini forced me to the mobile version of the page. On Safari, I can choose between the regular web version and the mobile.
How is that Opera Mini forcing you? It's the site that decides whether you are sent to the mobile site or not, and if you are given a choice or not.
I am sure they use the statistics from all that data to make money somehow.
No they don't.
For instance, you can't do banking on Opera [it doesn't allow encryption] and it ignores sites that have special mobile set ups.
This is completely wrong. Opera doesn't only allow encryption, but all communication between the Opera Mini server and client is encrypted. So Opera Mini is in fact actually safer than other browsers on public wifi connections!
I am not sure why they went to all the trouble to bypass Cocoa Touch
They didn't. They just used their standard mobile browser UI. Using Cocoa Touch would have been "trouble", especially before they were sure that it would be approved.
Now that it's approved they can start considering doing more integration with the iPhone. Now they know there's actually a reason to do it.
WebKit is pretty much the only mobile browser engine anyone uses. Firefox has Fennec, but its pretty scarce. Pocket IE is absolutely terrible. Opera has a small share and renders pretty roughly, as the photos show.
Actually, Opera has about 30% of the mobile phone browser market. iPhone has about 20%. Opera is the dominant mobile phone browser.
WebKit also has about 16% of the desktop market, while Opera's engine has about 2% share. FF is around 46% and IE is now at 32% according to http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
Those stats are completely useless, as they only represent that site. But why are you talking about desktop browsers? Opera Mini is a mobile browser.
1 - Touch the bookmarks button.
2 - Navigate to the root of your bookmarks tree.
3 - There's a bookmark that's called 'Find in page'.
4 - Guess what it does...
really? I don't see that. Maybe because I sync bookmarks to MobileMe and the Safari bookmarks from my Mac and PC don't have that 'bookmark' and overwrote the mobile Safari bookmarks....hmm
Would have been a useful feature....but why the hell would they put it in Bookmarks?