That is a very narrow definition of innovation. Apple's have all been very public (AppleII, Mac OS, DTP, All-in-One's, iPod, iTunes, Apple Stores, iPhone, AppStore) but those other companies are all successful for a reason, and not for the superficial description you state.
Coke - innovation in marketing (they invented modern Santa Clause!), distribution, manufacturing.
Walmart - supply chain, marketing (roll-backs), China sourcing
McD's - supply chain (Golden West), franchising, real-estate management, global menu replication/discipline
Dell - BTO, online sales
Bud - not sure - they got bought by Belgians...
Innovation is happening everywhere (nice and nasty forms) and generally drives success if you do it right. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.
I wouldn't want my daughter or anyone's child to be drinking coke, eating McDonalds, driving a GM product, or working at walmart ( or shopping there for that matter) on a Dell using a Windows OS....it's all crap. My point is there is a business choice. Either work really hard innovating as Apple does or take the easy way and sell crap products more efficiently! I would also include Goldman Sachs in this group too.
Out there tonight, Carly Fiorina pumps her fist in the air with a loud "YESSSSSSSS!", knowing that she no longer owns the most bone-headed decision by an HP CEO.
I wouldn't want my daughter or anyone's child to be drinking coke, eating McDonalds, driving a GM product, or working at walmart ( or shopping there for that matter) on a Dell using a Windows OS....it's all crap. My point is there is a business choice. Either work really hard innovating as Apple does or take the easy way and sell crap products more efficiently! I would also include Goldman Sachs in this group too.
Yep, there are few companies out there actually earning their keep like Apple, the MO of most is find a way to screw their clients.
Mac users are laughing their asses off about HP pissing away a billion on this purchase.
Are they laughing 'cause it's funny, or are they laughing to hide their insecurities. I think it's a great acquisition.... but what the hell do I know?
i'm not really sure what to think of this. on the one hand i have a bid of a nostalgic soft spot for palm - ever since the days of the newton, when they brought graffity to the platform.
yeah, i know that the palm from then bears little resemblance with what we call palm today, but thanks to handspring, they did at one point rule the phone market, and despite having changed hands so often (and now once more), i always thought that their customers deserved better.
after the newton got 'steved', i had a look at the palm pilot, but it just didn't measure up. combining the palm os with a phone sounded like it could fulfil the promise of motorola's marco efforts with the newton os, but it was clear that they weren't that ambitious.
palm's mac support got worse and worse, steve jobs toyed with the idea of buying them, but when 3com scooped them up i thought that was the end of palm. somehow the brand survived it.
webos looked promising, so even after getting an iphone (having lived without a cell phone for ten years) and loving it almost as much as the newton from back then, i went to a store to have a look. the moment i picked it up i knew i would never want it. the hardware felt like crap on first touch. it felt as if they just didn't have the money to do it right.
palm will survive hp as well. and maybe with some deeper pockets they will produce a great device again, before they go through another deathspiral. what palm lacks (IMO) is inspired leadership with passion for technology. just like apple under spindler and amelio, they suffered from having guys in charge of their direction that couldn't care less if they sold phones or cars or burgers. shame really.
i somehow don't see that changing under hp's ownership.
i could be wrong of course. for all we know hp bought palm because they're secretly planning to take over the world with beos.
Apple should have bought them and closed them down.
That would have probably caused some anti-trust concerns for Apple, or at least wouldn't have looked good, just icky... Just my gut feeling...
Now HP/Palm will be pestering Android and MSFT, and as they fight among themselves, Apple would only look better!
Rubinstein gave me an icky feeling. Bono bet on the wrong horse. Amazing, having had an iPod named after his band -- a fool...
In reality, we all can only guess how this merger will work out!
The original Palm lost it's way years ago... I do give them the credit for allowing me to carry a lot of data in my pocket... But, with iPhone and now iPad it's a New Day now! Web OS is a Me Too... iPhone Wanna Be, or so it seems!!! The same probably could be said about other OS's too, I suspect! But, I don't care... I want the Simplicity and the Stability of Apple's Echo System...
The Old Palm OS was the best advertising for OSX and Apple's "Closed" System.
As I am on my last days with Palm Treo 700p, I recall many battles with it and Tungsten III... 3rd Party Apps crashing those devices, and me having to play a detective, trying to isolate the suspect app... Resetting daily as a defensive move....
Apple's "Closed" System does that "isolation" for me, pre-screening apps!
If then Android folks want to play Detective, like I used to with Palm, installing apps, and then call who for tech support? The Carriers, Manufacturers, or does Google have Android Care? Happy Monkey In The Middle Games, and So Called FREEDOM to be SCREWED in that Zoo!!! NO THANKS! NEVER AGAIN!!!
Even if Android won't have viruses, and same for Windows Mobile, I suspect it'll be like the Old Zoo described in my previous paragraph!!!
Those competitors will all try to paint Apple as some kind of Dictatorship, and themselves as Freedom Fighters! Freedom to play the masses for stupid, and pass the buck down the road of Don't Call Us for Help!!!
Life is short, and we are supposed to enjoy it, with a some of these devices, instead of spending hours and days on tech support calls!!!
This is not Fan Boy gushing... I am just describing my and my friends' experience of many years!
I am counting seconds till my New iPhone and MBP 17', eventually iPad too.
Let the Apple Haters cut their noses to spite their faces, in order to fight Apple. Let those OS's and companies fight among themselves for that Silver Medal... I don't care if they collectively have a bigger piece of the world market then Apple will have by itself!
I want my Apple stuff, I know it'll work, and I'll be enjoying life!!!
People keep saying this, but "desktop" computing is not going anywhere soon. It is a bit naive to think that any mobile device will be able to serious computing for quite awhile.
As an example, here I am on my MBP, typing on the internet/working on a manuscript, have music playing, converting a 4 GB fMRI raw file to nifti format, and analyzing a subject's data with FSL.
I defy anyone to remotely attempt anything like that on a current mobile device, now, or in the 5 years.
I for one do not believe that "desktop" computing is not going anywhere soon. However the "sheer numbers potential" of the mobile platforms will garner all the attention... people will buy and use them for different things than most desktop uses.
To support that, I have been a techie for way too many years-- and, while it is important to you, I don't know (or care) what: "converting a 4 GB fMRI raw file to nifti format, and analyzing a subject's data with FSL." means... and that's the point-- most mobile users will not want/or need to do those things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity
I bet Apple couldn't care less.
I bet they would much rather the IP went to HP than say MSFT or Google.
One additional advantage that Apple has over all the competition: they have a single, common, OS/Application codebase across all their devices. That means when, say, a new codec (or app to manipulate it) is implemented on Mac OS X, it is easy to migrate it to AppleTV, iPhone OS, iPod, etc.
One really interesting aspect of this is that the migration works in all directions-- you can easily migrate location services to the laptop/desktop OS from the mobile OS. There is no [longer a ] reason that AppleTV needs to be tethered to a TV (or an AV cabinet)-- it could be built into your car.
Apple could easily add multitouch capability to the desktop/laptop-- and migrate all the APIs and apps (that make sense) to that platform.
Google and HPalm are faced with different, incompatible OS offerings for the mobile and laptop/desktop.
Say HPalm releases a Boffo tablet with their mobile OS. How do they migrate anything to their (Win+HP) desktop OS? Or, vice versa!
I wouldn't want my daughter or anyone's child to be drinking coke, eating McDonalds, driving a GM product, or working at walmart ( or shopping there for that matter) on a Dell using a Windows OS....it's all crap. My point is there is a business choice. Either work really hard innovating as Apple does or take the easy way and sell crap products more efficiently! I would also include Goldman Sachs in this group too.
I agree about product quality (who wouldn't). I only queried the "lack of Innovation" tag - all those guys have innovated in very important ways to be ultra-successful (in selling cheap "crap"). I barely use any of them but doesn't mean I can't appreciate what they have achieved in their markets.
It is somewhat snobbish to say that creating the world's largest company by revenue, most recognized brand, revolutionize the PC industry are all easy things to do and only expensive elite products have a place in the world.
Yep, there are few companies out there actually earning their keep like Apple, the MO of most is find a way to screw their clients.
Most people would say the Apple screws us all hard, just that we enjoy it. Pay much more, wait longer for the latest, let Apple control our access to things, but we forgive them this for the experience and the quality.
Why should people who enjoy saving pennies at WalMart, enjoy rotting their teeth with Coke and clogging their arteries at McD's be looked down on by us who pay huge multiples of what PC users do for a little lighter, stronger, longer-lasting, better looking, better feeling device.
Commerce is about "screwing" customers (extracting profits and supernormal ones if you can) - success is about getting them not to care that you are.
Wow, this is the best outcome for Apple! HP has had very little success in the mobile business and they are far from being an innovative company. They are in the commodity business. Their corporate culture will likely kill any innovation Palm has left. Get ready for a brain drain.
Furthermore, a billion dollars is ludicrous especially if you look at Palm's latest financial results. RIM, although more expensive, would have been a more suitable acquisition. They own the business smartphone segment.
Wow, this is the best outcome for Apple! HP has had very little success in the mobile business and they are far from being an innovative company. They are in the commodity business. Their corporate culture will likely kill any innovation Palm has left. Get ready for a brain drain.
Furthermore, a billion dollars is ludicrous especially if you look at Palm's latest financial results. RIM, although more expensive, would have been a more suitable acquisition. They own the business smartphone segment.
While HP does run a mildly succesful hardware business (that I would think the ASUS's, Gateways, Toshiba's of the world would be jealous of), they are not strictly commodities.
They run a rather successful services organization as well. Wouldn't the brain drain have occurred when Palm was looking for a suitor?
While HP does run a mildly succesful hardware business (that I would think the ASUS's, Gateways, Toshiba's of the world would be jealous of), they are not strictly commodities.
They run a rather successful services organization as well. Wouldn't the brain drain have occurred when Palm was looking for a suitor?
Most of their stuff is commodity kit in that it can be replaced by its competitors stuff with little to no switching costs. They are successful but it doesn't give them skills for this fight. They do claim to sell hardware for 8 of 10 top carriers but I doubt any of it is not commodity kit. Not much leverage...
Same with services - they bought Digital (through Compaq) and EDS, but neither have much to do with success in the mobile market.
In my opinion Mac users are a bit upset, they were looking for a open Mac tablet with decent storage so they can tweak on it and innovate.
This is probably not the forum for bringing this up, but I finally get why Apple are so anti-Flash.
I've just joined the YouTube HTML5 beta, and whilst on the negative side the video players controls don't look quite as good as the Flash player, on the plus side I still have 2:30 of battery life left and my legs aren't on fire from the heat coming off my Macbook.
Ironically, both Palm and HP were "top of the heap" in mobile products (each at different times with diff. products) and both managed to squander the lead they enjoyed through colossally bad management decisions.
Personally, I hope they fail. I like WebOS and Palm, but HP can go jump off a cliff for all the headaches they've caused me in the last few years with their horrible printers. Also as an ex iPaq owner, I have a box of very expensive iPaqs (plus accessories), I'd like to throw at them.
After the glory of the PalmPilot and Handspring, I had the unfortunate urge to try out the Dell Axim for a few months. What an utter regret I had. Never touched a PDA again until the iPod Touch and then iPhone 3G.
Call me an Apple fanboy, but since the Palm glory days 10 years ago, geez... nothing comes close to an iPhone. I mean, it's not for everyone, and people love their Blackberries, but... still, iPhone is the one to catch up to, and the iPad is pretty much going to be sold as fast as Apple can make them for the rest of the year, globally.
Also, WebOS-Palm is pretty much nonexistent internationally, where the iPhone and iPod Touch continues to gain significant footholds. There's Samsung/HTC Android/etc but I don't know how much traction their getting.
Comments
That is a very narrow definition of innovation. Apple's have all been very public (AppleII, Mac OS, DTP, All-in-One's, iPod, iTunes, Apple Stores, iPhone, AppStore) but those other companies are all successful for a reason, and not for the superficial description you state.
Coke - innovation in marketing (they invented modern Santa Clause!), distribution, manufacturing.
Walmart - supply chain, marketing (roll-backs), China sourcing
McD's - supply chain (Golden West), franchising, real-estate management, global menu replication/discipline
Dell - BTO, online sales
Bud - not sure - they got bought by Belgians...
Innovation is happening everywhere (nice and nasty forms) and generally drives success if you do it right. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.
I wouldn't want my daughter or anyone's child to be drinking coke, eating McDonalds, driving a GM product, or working at walmart ( or shopping there for that matter) on a Dell using a Windows OS....it's all crap. My point is there is a business choice. Either work really hard innovating as Apple does or take the easy way and sell crap products more efficiently! I would also include Goldman Sachs in this group too.
I think HP, Dell, Sony and the rest of the PC manufacturers have been hurt immeasurably by MS's missteps and clumsy implementation of their OS's.
This is HP attempting to get more into consumer mobile computing without having to carry a dog like MS's clunky buggy OS's.
BTW: Dell really missed the boat on this one!
Good point, a bit more bit evidence that anything other than M$ is better than nothing.
I wouldn't want my daughter or anyone's child to be drinking coke, eating McDonalds, driving a GM product, or working at walmart ( or shopping there for that matter) on a Dell using a Windows OS....it's all crap. My point is there is a business choice. Either work really hard innovating as Apple does or take the easy way and sell crap products more efficiently! I would also include Goldman Sachs in this group too.
Yep, there are few companies out there actually earning their keep like Apple, the MO of most is find a way to screw their clients.
Mac users are laughing their asses off about HP pissing away a billion on this purchase.
Are they laughing 'cause it's funny, or are they laughing to hide their insecurities. I think it's a great acquisition.... but what the hell do I know?
I bet you Apple isn't laughing...
I bet you Apple isn't laughing...
I bet Apple couldn't care less.
I bet they would much rather the IP went to HP than say MSFT or Google.
yeah, i know that the palm from then bears little resemblance with what we call palm today, but thanks to handspring, they did at one point rule the phone market, and despite having changed hands so often (and now once more), i always thought that their customers deserved better.
after the newton got 'steved', i had a look at the palm pilot, but it just didn't measure up. combining the palm os with a phone sounded like it could fulfil the promise of motorola's marco efforts with the newton os, but it was clear that they weren't that ambitious.
palm's mac support got worse and worse, steve jobs toyed with the idea of buying them, but when 3com scooped them up i thought that was the end of palm. somehow the brand survived it.
webos looked promising, so even after getting an iphone (having lived without a cell phone for ten years) and loving it almost as much as the newton from back then, i went to a store to have a look. the moment i picked it up i knew i would never want it. the hardware felt like crap on first touch. it felt as if they just didn't have the money to do it right.
palm will survive hp as well. and maybe with some deeper pockets they will produce a great device again, before they go through another deathspiral. what palm lacks (IMO) is inspired leadership with passion for technology. just like apple under spindler and amelio, they suffered from having guys in charge of their direction that couldn't care less if they sold phones or cars or burgers. shame really.
i somehow don't see that changing under hp's ownership.
i could be wrong of course. for all we know hp bought palm because they're secretly planning to take over the world with beos.
Apple should have bought them and closed them down.
That would have probably caused some anti-trust concerns for Apple, or at least wouldn't have looked good, just icky... Just my gut feeling...
Now HP/Palm will be pestering Android and MSFT, and as they fight among themselves, Apple would only look better!
Rubinstein gave me an icky feeling. Bono bet on the wrong horse. Amazing, having had an iPod named after his band -- a fool...
In reality, we all can only guess how this merger will work out!
The original Palm lost it's way years ago... I do give them the credit for allowing me to carry a lot of data in my pocket... But, with iPhone and now iPad it's a New Day now! Web OS is a Me Too... iPhone Wanna Be, or so it seems!!! The same probably could be said about other OS's too, I suspect! But, I don't care... I want the Simplicity and the Stability of Apple's Echo System...
The Old Palm OS was the best advertising for OSX and Apple's "Closed" System.
As I am on my last days with Palm Treo 700p, I recall many battles with it and Tungsten III... 3rd Party Apps crashing those devices, and me having to play a detective, trying to isolate the suspect app... Resetting daily as a defensive move....
Apple's "Closed" System does that "isolation" for me, pre-screening apps!
If then Android folks want to play Detective, like I used to with Palm, installing apps, and then call who for tech support? The Carriers, Manufacturers, or does Google have Android Care? Happy Monkey In The Middle Games, and So Called FREEDOM to be SCREWED in that Zoo!!! NO THANKS! NEVER AGAIN!!!
Even if Android won't have viruses, and same for Windows Mobile, I suspect it'll be like the Old Zoo described in my previous paragraph!!!
Those competitors will all try to paint Apple as some kind of Dictatorship, and themselves as Freedom Fighters! Freedom to play the masses for stupid, and pass the buck down the road of Don't Call Us for Help!!!
Life is short, and we are supposed to enjoy it, with a some of these devices, instead of spending hours and days on tech support calls!!!
This is not Fan Boy gushing... I am just describing my and my friends' experience of many years!
I am counting seconds till my New iPhone and MBP 17', eventually iPad too.
Let the Apple Haters cut their noses to spite their faces, in order to fight Apple. Let those OS's and companies fight among themselves for that Silver Medal... I don't care if they collectively have a bigger piece of the world market then Apple will have by itself!
I want my Apple stuff, I know it'll work, and I'll be enjoying life!!!
People keep saying this, but "desktop" computing is not going anywhere soon. It is a bit naive to think that any mobile device will be able to serious computing for quite awhile.
As an example, here I am on my MBP, typing on the internet/working on a manuscript, have music playing, converting a 4 GB fMRI raw file to nifti format, and analyzing a subject's data with FSL.
I defy anyone to remotely attempt anything like that on a current mobile device, now, or in the 5 years.
I for one do not believe that "desktop" computing is not going anywhere soon. However the "sheer numbers potential" of the mobile platforms will garner all the attention... people will buy and use them for different things than most desktop uses.
To support that, I have been a techie for way too many years-- and, while it is important to you, I don't know (or care) what: "converting a 4 GB fMRI raw file to nifti format, and analyzing a subject's data with FSL." means... and that's the point-- most mobile users will not want/or need to do those things.
I bet Apple couldn't care less.
I bet they would much rather the IP went to HP than say MSFT or Google.
One additional advantage that Apple has over all the competition: they have a single, common, OS/Application codebase across all their devices. That means when, say, a new codec (or app to manipulate it) is implemented on Mac OS X, it is easy to migrate it to AppleTV, iPhone OS, iPod, etc.
One really interesting aspect of this is that the migration works in all directions-- you can easily migrate location services to the laptop/desktop OS from the mobile OS. There is no [longer a ] reason that AppleTV needs to be tethered to a TV (or an AV cabinet)-- it could be built into your car.
Apple could easily add multitouch capability to the desktop/laptop-- and migrate all the APIs and apps (that make sense) to that platform.
Google and HPalm are faced with different, incompatible OS offerings for the mobile and laptop/desktop.
Say HPalm releases a Boffo tablet with their mobile OS. How do they migrate anything to their (Win+HP) desktop OS? Or, vice versa!
.
Current add on page:
Buy one Palm Pre Plus for $49.99
and Get One FREE!
I wouldn't want my daughter or anyone's child to be drinking coke, eating McDonalds, driving a GM product, or working at walmart ( or shopping there for that matter) on a Dell using a Windows OS....it's all crap. My point is there is a business choice. Either work really hard innovating as Apple does or take the easy way and sell crap products more efficiently! I would also include Goldman Sachs in this group too.
I agree about product quality (who wouldn't). I only queried the "lack of Innovation" tag - all those guys have innovated in very important ways to be ultra-successful (in selling cheap "crap"). I barely use any of them but doesn't mean I can't appreciate what they have achieved in their markets.
It is somewhat snobbish to say that creating the world's largest company by revenue, most recognized brand, revolutionize the PC industry are all easy things to do and only expensive elite products have a place in the world.
Yep, there are few companies out there actually earning their keep like Apple, the MO of most is find a way to screw their clients.
Most people would say the Apple screws us all hard, just that we enjoy it. Pay much more, wait longer for the latest, let Apple control our access to things, but we forgive them this for the experience and the quality.
Why should people who enjoy saving pennies at WalMart, enjoy rotting their teeth with Coke and clogging their arteries at McD's be looked down on by us who pay huge multiples of what PC users do for a little lighter, stronger, longer-lasting, better looking, better feeling device.
Commerce is about "screwing" customers (extracting profits and supernormal ones if you can) - success is about getting them not to care that you are.
I bet Apple couldn't care less.
I bet they would much rather the IP went to HP than say MSFT or Google.
Exactly, the last thing 'Steve' wants is to think up another way to out-do Google.
He's already taken care of MS
BTW IMO - it was cheap at a 23% premium - but, as you said Monsty - WHO CARES!
Furthermore, a billion dollars is ludicrous especially if you look at Palm's latest financial results. RIM, although more expensive, would have been a more suitable acquisition. They own the business smartphone segment.
Wow, this is the best outcome for Apple! HP has had very little success in the mobile business and they are far from being an innovative company. They are in the commodity business. Their corporate culture will likely kill any innovation Palm has left. Get ready for a brain drain.
Furthermore, a billion dollars is ludicrous especially if you look at Palm's latest financial results. RIM, although more expensive, would have been a more suitable acquisition. They own the business smartphone segment.
While HP does run a mildly succesful hardware business (that I would think the ASUS's, Gateways, Toshiba's of the world would be jealous of), they are not strictly commodities.
They run a rather successful services organization as well. Wouldn't the brain drain have occurred when Palm was looking for a suitor?
While HP does run a mildly succesful hardware business (that I would think the ASUS's, Gateways, Toshiba's of the world would be jealous of), they are not strictly commodities.
They run a rather successful services organization as well. Wouldn't the brain drain have occurred when Palm was looking for a suitor?
Most of their stuff is commodity kit in that it can be replaced by its competitors stuff with little to no switching costs. They are successful but it doesn't give them skills for this fight. They do claim to sell hardware for 8 of 10 top carriers but I doubt any of it is not commodity kit. Not much leverage...
Same with services - they bought Digital (through Compaq) and EDS, but neither have much to do with success in the mobile market.
We shall see...
Don´t forget Flash support too!
In my opinion Mac users are a bit upset, they were looking for a open Mac tablet with decent storage so they can tweak on it and innovate.
This is probably not the forum for bringing this up, but I finally get why Apple are so anti-Flash.
I've just joined the YouTube HTML5 beta, and whilst on the negative side the video players controls don't look quite as good as the Flash player, on the plus side I still have 2:30 of battery life left and my legs aren't on fire from the heat coming off my Macbook.
I'm a convert!
Yeah.
Ironically, both Palm and HP were "top of the heap" in mobile products (each at different times with diff. products) and both managed to squander the lead they enjoyed through colossally bad management decisions.
Personally, I hope they fail. I like WebOS and Palm, but HP can go jump off a cliff for all the headaches they've caused me in the last few years with their horrible printers. Also as an ex iPaq owner, I have a box of very expensive iPaqs (plus accessories), I'd like to throw at them.
After the glory of the PalmPilot and Handspring, I had the unfortunate urge to try out the Dell Axim for a few months. What an utter regret I had. Never touched a PDA again until the iPod Touch and then iPhone 3G.
Call me an Apple fanboy, but since the Palm glory days 10 years ago, geez... nothing comes close to an iPhone. I mean, it's not for everyone, and people love their Blackberries, but... still, iPhone is the one to catch up to, and the iPad is pretty much going to be sold as fast as Apple can make them for the rest of the year, globally.
Also, WebOS-Palm is pretty much nonexistent internationally, where the iPhone and iPod Touch continues to gain significant footholds. There's Samsung/HTC Android/etc but I don't know how much traction their getting.
Ah well, call me an Apple fanboy...
Excellent!
A crapware PC maker joining with a has-been smartphone company.
What half-assed products await?
So what did you think when previously sacked, NExT-fiasco-infamous executive wannabie joined leave-the-sinking-ship fruit company..?