the fatal flaw of all the existing computer/media-on-TV-screen boxes and software to date is their universal and archaic cursor-based UI. you move it with some remote left/right, up/down, and click. AppleTV uses it, BluRay interactive uses it, everyone uses it. it was invented, if i remember right, for the first VCR and TV menu on-screen controls. it sucks. it has always sucked. it will always suck. and if you add a keyboard, it sucks even more, adding one more clunky thing to fiddle with. this is why the great majority of consumers have never embraced any of these devices beyond their minimum essential functions of playback/record.
the Google TV UI is this same ol' thing. so it will suck too. and that is all Sony, Logitech, and the rest of that gang know how to do anyway.
the real breakthrough would be an all-touch (plus accelerometer) UI remote instead. an AppleTV running the iPhone OS with the iPhone/touch/iPad as the remote that mirrored your TV screen. that would be sweet. let's hope Jobs has vision enough to bring the iPhone OS to your TV.
How 'bout this: AppleTV $150; AppleTV $199 including 1 remote (dedicated iPod Touch).
O. M. G. You can use a web browser... on a TV! What will they think of next!
As someone who has had a computer of some sort connected to their TV for the past decade this is all a little humorous.
The orphaned gimp of a project that is AppleTV can hardly be seen as a competitor to GTV though.
I have to think that internally Apple are a little embarrassed that they called it "Apple TV". It should have been called an "iTunes Extender" or something similar because there is no way that the AppleTV represents how SJ thinks we should experience the 10 foot interface.
Google TV is actually closer competition to Boxee, PS3+PlayTV, Popcorn Hour, TIVO or Media Center \\ X360.
Apple need to put some actual effort into a new Apple TV, or the release of Google TV and Windows 7 Embedded could leave them behind in a market they had a opportunity to lead.
On an unrelated side note I can't help but think how much Steve Balmer has screwed Microsoft.
Consider this. The Xbox was released in 2001, they had a Tablet PC in 2002, Media Center in 2002 and a Windows phone in 2003. With all of the experience they gathered they released the Zune and Xbox 360 in late 2005\\2006.
It's almost unbelievable that Microsoft would let Google and Apple come in and take over markets that they pioneered, but that is exactly was has happened.
First with the mobile, then with the tablet and now it seems like with the TV interface as well (if Windows 7 Embedded doesn't take off).
The Zune\\Zune Phone\\Zune Tablet\\Zune Media Center Embedded should have been a product line in 2005 and the X360 should have been their 10 foot interface pièce de résistance with everything Google TV does plus more.
the real breakthrough would be an all-touch (plus accelerometer) UI remote instead. an AppleTV running the iPhone OS with the iPhone/touch/iPad as the remote that mirrored your TV screen. that would be sweet. let's hope Jobs has vision enough to bring the iPhone OS to your TV.
You just gave me an idea!
Trying to control a screen via an iPhone touch pad sucks. I'm sure they could make it better if they focused on making it more integrated but the problem, I think, is the disconnect between the touch device and the screen. It ruins the "feel" that makes a touch UI so intuitive. So no matter what they do the core problem still exists.
So all we need to move the touch interface to the 10 foot interface is some 10 foot long fingers... easy right? Well I think it is, enter the Wiimote!!
This seems so simple I can't believe Google didn't mention it themselves!
Not to mention an Apple TV + touch UI + Wiimote-like pointer device + iTunes store with thousands of games would be a very compelling device.
Ingredients for my fun tonight....
A spare Wiimote (check!)
Bluetooth receiver (check!)
Windows 7 Media Center (check!)
Microsoft Touch Pack for Windows 7 (check!)
An understanding wife (check!)
Results
I'll let you know!
EDIT - Logitech might already be doing this... from their website...
Q: What is it?
A: We’re creating a system that includes a companion box – an external device that connects to your TV through an HDMI port – and an intuitive controller that’s been designed to take full advantage of everything the Google TV platform offers.
Are they talking about a Wiimote-like device to control games\\apps from the Android market place?
So all we need to move the touch interface to the 10 foot interface is some 10 foot long fingers... easy right? Well I think it is, enter the Wiimote!!
This seems so simple I can't believe Google didn't mention it themselves!
The execs at Nintendo are strange birds. When the Wii was white hot, they restrained supply because adding additional factories would possibly lead to unused capacity, reducing per-unit profitability. In the process they left billions of sales on the table.
The engineers at Nintendo come up with some really innovative, in-demand products. But I wouldn't expect them to be on board with any tech that they didn't hatch themselves, and its a certainty that they would only release it based on their own production schedules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475
EDIT - Logitech might already be doing this... from their website...
Q: What is it?
A: We’re creating a system that includes a companion box – an external device that connects to your TV through an HDMI port – and an intuitive controller that’s been designed to take full advantage of everything the Google TV platform offers.
Are they talking about a Wiimote-like device to control games\\apps from the Android market place?
If it's Logitech, I'd bet the "controller" is going to look a lot like their other controllers...
And I can pretty much guarantee that whatever the interface for Mac is eventually released will have sucky drivers and require input manager hacks.
Try starting with google.com F*ckng web "engineers." God I hate google. Its like 1990s colors everywhere. The new micro$oft. Meet the new boss just like the old boss. Boycott google.com for better search engines like collecta.com
The execs at Nintendo are strange birds. When the Wii was white hot, they restrained supply because adding additional factories would possibly lead to unused capacity, reducing per-unit profitability. In the process they left billions of sales on the table.
It doesn't have to actually be the Wiimote. I'm just talking about an IR pointing device, preferably with built in accelerometer. I think if it were designed specifically for TV it would look more like a Logitech remote with IR tracking\\accelerometer rather than a game controller (like the actual Wiimote).
It's just easier for me to say (and for people to understand) Wiimote than "IR pointing device with built in accelerometer"
It doesn't have to actually be the Wiimote. I'm just talking about an IR pointing device, preferably with built in accelerometer. I think if it were designed specifically for TV it would look more like a Logitech remote with IR tracking\\accelerometer rather than a game controller (like the actual Wiimote).
It's just easier for me to say (and for people to understand) Wiimote than "IR pointing device with built in accelerometer"
Sony Move is much better than the wiimote even with the motion plus.
Sony Move is much better than the wiimote even with the motion plus.
Define "better". I'm talking about a device to interact with your TV and use Android\\iPhone applications and games. (EDIT: obviously most games\\apps would need to be rebuilt, but they would be very similar. Like the iPad is to the iPhone)
Move's (an Natal's for that matter) way of doing things is too expensive for a TV remote. The remote itself still needs to be "smart" (i.e. Bluetooth\\Wi-Fi and accelerometer) so you wouldn't save any money there. Plus you add the cost of a camera and all the extra CPU cycles of decoding the received image.
And all for what? Some more accuracy in mapping 1-to-1 movement and depth perception?
Move\\Natal might be better for games and more accurate, but I'm not sure their technology is ready to be embedded into TVs just yet.
GREAT! THIS WILL MAKE AMERICANS EVEN FATTER THAN THEY ALREADY ARE. McD, BK, Taco Bell, and the rest of the junk food industry will love Google TV. More fat ass couch potatoes to feed...
It searches your cable stations? I have EyeTV and it can't find info from encrypted tv channels on TWC. I wonder if the cable companies are going to welcome this.
It searches the "open" channels, which are fewer and fewer.
The Apple TV has been moribund for a long time. Good luck to Google. Too bad they're using that stupid, sucky WebM. Free gift for Firefox? Hey, they could have just paid the licensing fees for h.264 and saved more than $100 million. That's not what they're doing. Everything they unveiled was to screw up Apple, and they don't care how much of the "web" they screw up to do it.
The engineers will find a way to link to every pussy cat video on the web. They will fight over allowing Boxee on the platform. The interface, like every single interface Google ever designed, will be something only an engineer could love. Everything will have to be recoded with their crappy codec. It will look like hell on an HDTV. It won't get any more providers than Apple TV, Boxee, etc. got. It will die on the vine, except for nerdy college computer kids.
It's got to happen eventually, but it won't be the big new reinvention of TV that everybody thinks is coming.
Does it sound great? Sure. Search for a program by speaking it, bang, you get a pageful of hits. Cool. But Google has absoulutely no history of doing things right, beyond the techy search stuff.
And people will soon realize that their business model in all these things is, screw Apple and sell ads.
Wow. what a bunch of losers. sit on Apple board, steal ideas, then leave and directly compete with knockoff products.
Yeah, because Apple did not "steal" ideas for their products, there was no tablets or smart phones before Apple "invented" them.... oh wait, I remember seeing Steve arguing with Bill once that tablets were not the future, I wonder what has changed since then besides your short memory.
why does it looks like a copy and improve business model by google
apple in this business a long time now so no worries
The difference is that Apple actually "gets" the improve half of the equation.
Apple didn't invent the MP3 player, but they invented a better UX and now everybody carries an iPod.
Apple didn't invent the smartphone, but they invented a better UX and now everybody carries an iPhone.
Google just copies and puts any old UX on there and hopes their fanbois will flock to whatever their latest "me too" project is, funded by their web ads business...
Seems like Google is announcing something new every week. I guess if you throw enough stuff (products, ideas, vaporware, etc...) on the market some of it is bound to stick around, whether it is real or ready for the market or not.
Apple TV connects to the largest online TV/Music/Movie media store in the world and where users can buy content direct. Your Apple TV can replace your cable subscription.
Google TV, if I understand correctly, connects to the internet and to a cable box, and does not sell any content to users. You can consume A) free web content or content from your cable subscription. This does not, in any way, replace your cable subscription.
They compete in name only.
Google's critique actually seems to be against the user interface of DVR/Cable set-top-boxes. To solve that, they would need Motorola and other set-top box hardware/software manufacturers to adopt this TV-flavored Android. Then, of course, Comcast etc. would have to adopt those boxes.
How does AppleTV replace someone's cable/ipTV connection? Movies on Apple TV are no replacement for HBO/Showtime along with any other live show. I guess if all you wanted to do was pay for shows that you can stream to one's TV then it is worth it.
Hopefully, this will spur Apple to get serious or get out of Apple TV altogether. My hope is they buy Netflix.
Apple Buying NETFLIX would really stick it to GOOGLE. Question is.....What is this Web and TV integration worth. I have the web on my HDTV using an HDMI cable from my PC. Perhaps searching might be easier but I really don't see the big benefit.
I also have these Widgets which the manufacturer built in,which I think most people will agree are almost useless.
Have to really see the interface and capabilities to make a real judgement.
Comments
[forgive me if this point has been made already]
the fatal flaw of all the existing computer/media-on-TV-screen boxes and software to date is their universal and archaic cursor-based UI. you move it with some remote left/right, up/down, and click. AppleTV uses it, BluRay interactive uses it, everyone uses it. it was invented, if i remember right, for the first VCR and TV menu on-screen controls. it sucks. it has always sucked. it will always suck. and if you add a keyboard, it sucks even more, adding one more clunky thing to fiddle with. this is why the great majority of consumers have never embraced any of these devices beyond their minimum essential functions of playback/record.
the Google TV UI is this same ol' thing. so it will suck too. and that is all Sony, Logitech, and the rest of that gang know how to do anyway.
the real breakthrough would be an all-touch (plus accelerometer) UI remote instead. an AppleTV running the iPhone OS with the iPhone/touch/iPad as the remote that mirrored your TV screen. that would be sweet. let's hope Jobs has vision enough to bring the iPhone OS to your TV.
How 'bout this: AppleTV $150; AppleTV $199 including 1 remote (dedicated iPod Touch).
.
As someone who has had a computer of some sort connected to their TV for the past decade this is all a little humorous.
The orphaned gimp of a project that is AppleTV can hardly be seen as a competitor to GTV though.
I have to think that internally Apple are a little embarrassed that they called it "Apple TV". It should have been called an "iTunes Extender" or something similar because there is no way that the AppleTV represents how SJ thinks we should experience the 10 foot interface.
Google TV is actually closer competition to Boxee, PS3+PlayTV, Popcorn Hour, TIVO or Media Center \\ X360.
Apple need to put some actual effort into a new Apple TV, or the release of Google TV and Windows 7 Embedded could leave them behind in a market they had a opportunity to lead.
--------------------------- EDIT ---------------------------
On an unrelated side note I can't help but think how much Steve Balmer has screwed Microsoft.
Consider this. The Xbox was released in 2001, they had a Tablet PC in 2002, Media Center in 2002 and a Windows phone in 2003. With all of the experience they gathered they released the Zune and Xbox 360 in late 2005\\2006.
It's almost unbelievable that Microsoft would let Google and Apple come in and take over markets that they pioneered, but that is exactly was has happened.
First with the mobile, then with the tablet and now it seems like with the TV interface as well (if Windows 7 Embedded doesn't take off).
The Zune\\Zune Phone\\Zune Tablet\\Zune Media Center Embedded should have been a product line in 2005 and the X360 should have been their 10 foot interface pièce de résistance with everything Google TV does plus more.
Google is becoming a ravenous rat.
the "Me Too" company.
pathetic.
There were music players before iPod.
And there were smart phones before iPhone.
Which initially made Apple "Me Too" company as well. Ravenous rat, too..?
the real breakthrough would be an all-touch (plus accelerometer) UI remote instead. an AppleTV running the iPhone OS with the iPhone/touch/iPad as the remote that mirrored your TV screen. that would be sweet. let's hope Jobs has vision enough to bring the iPhone OS to your TV.
You just gave me an idea!
Trying to control a screen via an iPhone touch pad sucks. I'm sure they could make it better if they focused on making it more integrated but the problem, I think, is the disconnect between the touch device and the screen. It ruins the "feel" that makes a touch UI so intuitive. So no matter what they do the core problem still exists.
So all we need to move the touch interface to the 10 foot interface is some 10 foot long fingers... easy right? Well I think it is, enter the Wiimote!!
This seems so simple I can't believe Google didn't mention it themselves!
Not to mention an Apple TV + touch UI + Wiimote-like pointer device + iTunes store with thousands of games would be a very compelling device.
Ingredients for my fun tonight....
- A spare Wiimote (check!)
- Bluetooth receiver (check!)
- Windows 7 Media Center (check!)
- Microsoft Touch Pack for Windows 7 (check!)
- An understanding wife (check!)
ResultsEDIT - Logitech might already be doing this... from their website...
Q: What is it?
A: We’re creating a system that includes a companion box – an external device that connects to your TV through an HDMI port – and an intuitive controller that’s been designed to take full advantage of everything the Google TV platform offers.
Are they talking about a Wiimote-like device to control games\\apps from the Android market place?
So all we need to move the touch interface to the 10 foot interface is some 10 foot long fingers... easy right? Well I think it is, enter the Wiimote!!
This seems so simple I can't believe Google didn't mention it themselves!
The execs at Nintendo are strange birds. When the Wii was white hot, they restrained supply because adding additional factories would possibly lead to unused capacity, reducing per-unit profitability. In the process they left billions of sales on the table.
The engineers at Nintendo come up with some really innovative, in-demand products. But I wouldn't expect them to be on board with any tech that they didn't hatch themselves, and its a certainty that they would only release it based on their own production schedules.
EDIT - Logitech might already be doing this... from their website...
Q: What is it?
A: We’re creating a system that includes a companion box – an external device that connects to your TV through an HDMI port – and an intuitive controller that’s been designed to take full advantage of everything the Google TV platform offers.
Are they talking about a Wiimote-like device to control games\\apps from the Android market place?
If it's Logitech, I'd bet the "controller" is going to look a lot like their other controllers...
And I can pretty much guarantee that whatever the interface for Mac is eventually released will have sucky drivers and require input manager hacks.
TV in the Trash, Welcome GOOGLE TV. I love Apple but the TV is crap unless you hack it.
Really? You bought one already? Because I thought this was just an announcement of future products...
The execs at Nintendo are strange birds. When the Wii was white hot, they restrained supply because adding additional factories would possibly lead to unused capacity, reducing per-unit profitability. In the process they left billions of sales on the table.
It doesn't have to actually be the Wiimote. I'm just talking about an IR pointing device, preferably with built in accelerometer. I think if it were designed specifically for TV it would look more like a Logitech remote with IR tracking\\accelerometer rather than a game controller (like the actual Wiimote).
It's just easier for me to say (and for people to understand) Wiimote than "IR pointing device with built in accelerometer"
It doesn't have to actually be the Wiimote. I'm just talking about an IR pointing device, preferably with built in accelerometer. I think if it were designed specifically for TV it would look more like a Logitech remote with IR tracking\\accelerometer rather than a game controller (like the actual Wiimote).
It's just easier for me to say (and for people to understand) Wiimote than "IR pointing device with built in accelerometer"
Sony Move is much better than the wiimote even with the motion plus.
apple in this business a long time now so no worries
Sony Move is much better than the wiimote even with the motion plus.
Define "better". I'm talking about a device to interact with your TV and use Android\\iPhone applications and games. (EDIT: obviously most games\\apps would need to be rebuilt, but they would be very similar. Like the iPad is to the iPhone)
Move's (an Natal's for that matter) way of doing things is too expensive for a TV remote. The remote itself still needs to be "smart" (i.e. Bluetooth\\Wi-Fi and accelerometer) so you wouldn't save any money there. Plus you add the cost of a camera and all the extra CPU cycles of decoding the received image.
And all for what? Some more accuracy in mapping 1-to-1 movement and depth perception?
Move\\Natal might be better for games and more accurate, but I'm not sure their technology is ready to be embedded into TVs just yet.
It searches your cable stations? I have EyeTV and it can't find info from encrypted tv channels on TWC. I wonder if the cable companies are going to welcome this.
It searches the "open" channels, which are fewer and fewer.
The Apple TV has been moribund for a long time. Good luck to Google. Too bad they're using that stupid, sucky WebM. Free gift for Firefox? Hey, they could have just paid the licensing fees for h.264 and saved more than $100 million. That's not what they're doing. Everything they unveiled was to screw up Apple, and they don't care how much of the "web" they screw up to do it.
It's got to happen eventually, but it won't be the big new reinvention of TV that everybody thinks is coming.
Does it sound great? Sure. Search for a program by speaking it, bang, you get a pageful of hits. Cool. But Google has absoulutely no history of doing things right, beyond the techy search stuff.
And people will soon realize that their business model in all these things is, screw Apple and sell ads.
Wow. what a bunch of losers. sit on Apple board, steal ideas, then leave and directly compete with knockoff products.
Yeah, because Apple did not "steal" ideas for their products, there was no tablets or smart phones before Apple "invented" them.... oh wait, I remember seeing Steve arguing with Bill once that tablets were not the future, I wonder what has changed since then besides your short memory.
why does it looks like a copy and improve business model by google
apple in this business a long time now so no worries
The difference is that Apple actually "gets" the improve half of the equation.
Apple didn't invent the MP3 player, but they invented a better UX and now everybody carries an iPod.
Apple didn't invent the smartphone, but they invented a better UX and now everybody carries an iPhone.
Google just copies and puts any old UX on there and hopes their fanbois will flock to whatever their latest "me too" project is, funded by their web ads business...
Is this competition for Apple TV?
Apple TV connects to the largest online TV/Music/Movie media store in the world and where users can buy content direct. Your Apple TV can replace your cable subscription.
Google TV, if I understand correctly, connects to the internet and to a cable box, and does not sell any content to users. You can consume A) free web content or
They compete in name only.
Google's critique actually seems to be against the user interface of DVR/Cable set-top-boxes. To solve that, they would need Motorola and other set-top box hardware/software manufacturers to adopt this TV-flavored Android. Then, of course, Comcast etc. would have to adopt those boxes.
How does AppleTV replace someone's cable/ipTV connection? Movies on Apple TV are no replacement for HBO/Showtime along with any other live show. I guess if all you wanted to do was pay for shows that you can stream to one's TV then it is worth it.
Hopefully, this will spur Apple to get serious or get out of Apple TV altogether. My hope is they buy Netflix.
Apple Buying NETFLIX would really stick it to GOOGLE. Question is.....What is this Web and TV integration worth. I have the web on my HDTV using an HDMI cable from my PC. Perhaps searching might be easier but I really don't see the big benefit.
I also have these Widgets which the manufacturer built in,which I think most people will agree are almost useless.
Have to really see the interface and capabilities to make a real judgement.