This coming from a company who's entire strategy is built on taking Apple's good ideas and coming out with their own 'open source' versions of them? They must be smoking some pretty strong stuff in Mountain View these days. Did they open up a Pot club in the Googleplex cafeteria or something
The essential difference between Google and Apple: Google's business model is one of continual expansion and constant growth above all. Apple's model is to produce excellence, and has often foregone market share to stay true to that ideal. Which model more closely resembles 1984?
As Agent Smith noted, there is an organism that exhibits Google's pattern.
Ya I kinda have to agree.. Google just seems to toss anything and everything against the wall and run with what sticks.. for as long as it sticks.
If you honestly think Apple is solely after maximum profit and not after what they personally believe is the best product you can buy.. then why wouldn't they just make 2 or 3 versions of the iPhone to try and please every one?
So what? It seems you might be the one here arguing about something that hasn't actually taken place yet... Flash is still, currently in high demand, it hasn't changed despite some companies using a different video delivery. Flash was extremely popular without video, to think that will kill it is to be naive. I stand by what I said, other factors, would kill it.
YOU can argue til you're blue in the face, however, the difference is, I'm speaking about what is the current reality, and you're making predictions.
I can't say for sure if your predictions for the -future-, are incorrect, and it's a waste of time to bother really at this point, but I can certainly disagree from what I know.
Steve said "phone business" and "search business".
Google also monitors all our activities in those apps.
Don't forget the means for more spying!
Google is tired of paying Apple for the privilege of spying on the growing leagues of Apple customers.
You got that right. Turnabout is fair play.
How does the act of screening apps that have been volunteered up for sale in a publicly accessible store come anywhere near the issues of privacy and control associated with monitoring your every move and communication on the web?
Stop complaining about Apple. Be happy Google is willing to take care of the garbage (porn, Flash, malware). You're welcome to go there, too.
Are you kidding me? Did you just attempt to turn my criticism of Apple into a justification for Google, likely in a desperate attempt to refuse my bullet-proof argument? No, obviously no one would be foolish enough think that would work... So what was your intent?
Google has a right to enter the phone business. Apple has a right to enter the advertising business. It's not even about retribution - it's business... it's about opportunity. Of course Google is much more "Big Brother" than Apple. Even an idiot knows that. That doesn't mean Apple is free of such practices. I don't need someone to screen apps for me. If I don't want to find smut, I don't search for it. I have a hard enough time finding relevant apps I know exist...
1) Changing your message makes your image/brand untrustworthy... When Android/Chrome were first announced it was not accompanied by such an anti-Apple attitude. Apple has not changed its own attitude since then - so the only thing that has changed is Google trying to emulate the flashiness/swagger of Apple. And that's a duel Google won't win. Apple and Steve Jobs have mastered the art of persuasion far longer than Google geeks have been writing code or Vic has been clicking slides. Google is a giant pillar - Apple has always positioned itself as the diamond - small, special and dazzling. Apple is more than happy to have people flock to them when there's a vacuum of innovation (ehem, what took Google so long is a better question!), but priority one for Apple is always special beauty and simplicity, not fat ubiquity - which is precisely where Google is headed. But go ahead and be the giant Google; go ahead and swing at the shiny apple.
2) All the fancy HTML5 and Chrome development that Google is pushing is dandy - but I don't care about all the hype of speed and performance. All the demos I've seen implemented still lack the polish and elegance of Apple's Xcode and Cocoa platform. Not one demo in the Google keynote came close to the richness and polish of iPhone/iPad apps. Richness, polish - you may want to look those words up since you rarely see them at a Google keynote. And how many times did Google's demos freeze up from lack of connectivity? Why depend on a UI/platform that can only be at its best when it's online?
3) The more Google tries to make "the browser" their killer product the easier it will be for Apple's integrated approach to outshine them. This is Microsoft all over again - trying to leverage separating the platform from the hardware. Okay, we'll see where that gets you 5 years from now when all the hardware manufacturers prove unable/unwilling to keep up with your vision.
By the way, it seems you were pretty far off on your claims that Android is on more carriers than iPhone, so your credibility has taken a bit of a hit while you were sulking.
I doubt those claims about Apple's carrier count and they're unsubstantiated.
And I did leave -- some of us are professionals with real jobs and can't spend all day, every day irrationally defending a company they don't even work for.
I was actually fixing a bug in my company's iPhone app today. On Tuesday I'm resuming work on our Android app.
Some of us don't have allegiances, and that can offend like yourself that swears one. You are immensely childish and doing a disservice to anyone who truly appreciates Apple products.
So what? It seems you might be the one here arguing about something that hasn't actually taken place yet... Flash is still, currently in high demand, it hasn't changed despite some companies using a different video delivery. Flash was extremely popular without video, to think that will kill it is to be naive. I stand by what I said, other factors, would kill it.
YOU can argue til you're blue in the face, however, the difference is, I'm speaking about what is the current reality, and you're making predictions.
I can't say for sure if your predictions for the -future-, are incorrect, and it's a waste of time to bother really at this point, but I can certainly disagree from what I know.
Sure, you can disagree, but Flash's fate is already determined, and its fate is that content providers will abandon it because it can't give them access to the eyeballs they want to reach, but HTML5 can and will.
Sure, you can disagree, but Flash's fate is already determined, and its fate is that content providers will abandon it because it can't give them access to the eyeballs they want to reach, but HTML5 can and will.
There's no hard evidence out there to support this, other than predictions.
I can't say you're completely wrong anymore than you can state that with any degree of certainty.
I live in Canada too. Got to play with an android phone and its pretty much an iphone OS copycat, only with garbage multi-touch. The android phone (Sansung) multi-touch I tried is no where near the iphone.
And imo Android is a steal of the iphones OS, so I rather buy an iphone and help the people who really invented the thing.
I dont think Apple is more of a big brother than any other company. You dont "have" to buy from itunes, you can put external music,TV,movies,books into any Apple device. The only thing I see Apple controling is apps in the appstore and you can always jailbreak is you really want to install some wierd app.
You're welcome to your opinion.
On my desk right now at work I've got:
iPhone 3G
iPhone 3GS [personal phone]
iPhone 3GS w/ iPhoneOS 4.0 Beta 4
iPad 16GB
HTC Magic (Android 1.6)
Google Nexus One (Android 2.1) [personal phone]
Google Nexus One (Android 2.2 beta)
Motorola Milestone (Droid in the States) (Android 2.1)
Samsung Galaxy (Android 1.6)
Sony Ericsson X10A (Android 1.6)
HTC Dream (Cyanogen Android)
Palm Pre
Palm Pixi
HTC HD2 (Windows Mobile)
Nokia N97 (Symbian)
Blackberry Bold 2
Blackberry Storm 2
Blackberry Curve 8900
I personally always carry with me my iPhone 3GS (which I bought) and my Nexus One (disclaimer: I got the N1 for free from Google at a conference). I swap the SIM chip between the two a few times a week, because I recognize the strength and utility of both. When the SIM chip is in one, the other uses WiFi.
Neither platform sucks, and the people who assert that one sucks and the other one doesn't are probably not being very honest.
I doubt those claims about Apple's carrier count and they're unsubstantiated.
Well, you claimed Android is on more carriers, so the onus is on you to substantiate your claim.
Quote:
And I did leave -- some of us are professionals with real jobs and can't spend all day, every day irrationally defending a company they don't even work for.
So you admit that you work for Google? Or are you just here spending part of your day irrationally defending them?
There's no hard evidence out there to support this, other than predictions.
I can't say you're completely wrong anymore than you can state that with any degree of certainty.
Sure, but, if you were a content provider, would you wait to see if you are right, shut out from all those eyeballs while you do, for who knows how long, maybe forever? Or would you just say, "screw it, make us a site that doesn't use Flash, now!" That's why I'm confident that I'm correct.
Since you're not interested in having a grown-up discussion, I'll leave for a bit again. Maybe someone else here is interested in real discussions, I'll check back later.
Adobe and Google are wailing and moaning like little children that Apple will take over the world because they sense the end is near. Very few grown up companies cry like them. Boo hoo.
The major tech companies are in turmoil as they are desperately trying to respond to the rapid pace of technology driven by Apple. The ignored ipod. They think they have a footing with the iphone, and then sudden the ipad comes along. Since fathead is no longer on the Apple board of directors, they can not divine the course of the future and they are scared. Google, Adobe, Sony and others are huddle, creating alliances, together trying to brace for the tsunami.
SJ is the grandmaster of strategy, and I believe has a plan. We are witness to something great coming. The hardware, software elements are in place. The server farmers are coming in line. Check, check, and checkmate. Can't you sense it?
Since you're not interested in having a grown-up discussion, I'll leave for a bit again. Maybe someone else here is interested in real discussions, I'll check back later.
Well, you could provide those numbers on worldwide Android vs. iPhone carrier dominance, you know, if you wanted to have a "grown up" discussion, instead of just claiming you don't believe the numbers that contradict you. After that, I figured we were done with reasoned argument, so I'd just make fun of you.
Comments
The essential difference between Google and Apple: Google's business model is one of continual expansion and constant growth above all. Apple's model is to produce excellence, and has often foregone market share to stay true to that ideal. Which model more closely resembles 1984?
As Agent Smith noted, there is an organism that exhibits Google's pattern.
Ya I kinda have to agree.. Google just seems to toss anything and everything against the wall and run with what sticks.. for as long as it sticks.
If you honestly think Apple is solely after maximum profit and not after what they personally believe is the best product you can buy.. then why wouldn't they just make 2 or 3 versions of the iPhone to try and please every one?
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...57#post1636857
2nd paragraph.
So what? It seems you might be the one here arguing about something that hasn't actually taken place yet... Flash is still, currently in high demand, it hasn't changed despite some companies using a different video delivery. Flash was extremely popular without video, to think that will kill it is to be naive. I stand by what I said, other factors, would kill it.
YOU can argue til you're blue in the face, however, the difference is, I'm speaking about what is the current reality, and you're making predictions.
I can't say for sure if your predictions for the -future-, are incorrect, and it's a waste of time to bother really at this point, but I can certainly disagree from what I know.
Steve said "phone business" and "search business".
Google also monitors all our activities in those apps.
Don't forget the means for more spying!
Google is tired of paying Apple for the privilege of spying on the growing leagues of Apple customers.
You got that right. Turnabout is fair play.
How does the act of screening apps that have been volunteered up for sale in a publicly accessible store come anywhere near the issues of privacy and control associated with monitoring your every move and communication on the web?
Stop complaining about Apple. Be happy Google is willing to take care of the garbage (porn, Flash, malware). You're welcome to go there, too.
Are you kidding me? Did you just attempt to turn my criticism of Apple into a justification for Google, likely in a desperate attempt to refuse my bullet-proof argument? No, obviously no one would be foolish enough think that would work... So what was your intent?
Google has a right to enter the phone business. Apple has a right to enter the advertising business. It's not even about retribution - it's business... it's about opportunity. Of course Google is much more "Big Brother" than Apple. Even an idiot knows that. That doesn't mean Apple is free of such practices. I don't need someone to screen apps for me. If I don't want to find smut, I don't search for it. I have a hard enough time finding relevant apps I know exist...
-Clive
2) All the fancy HTML5 and Chrome development that Google is pushing is dandy - but I don't care about all the hype of speed and performance. All the demos I've seen implemented still lack the polish and elegance of Apple's Xcode and Cocoa platform. Not one demo in the Google keynote came close to the richness and polish of iPhone/iPad apps. Richness, polish - you may want to look those words up since you rarely see them at a Google keynote. And how many times did Google's demos freeze up from lack of connectivity? Why depend on a UI/platform that can only be at its best when it's online?
3) The more Google tries to make "the browser" their killer product the easier it will be for Apple's integrated approach to outshine them. This is Microsoft all over again - trying to leverage separating the platform from the hardware. Okay, we'll see where that gets you 5 years from now when all the hardware manufacturers prove unable/unwilling to keep up with your vision.
...as long as he [Big Brother] helps bring down my cable bill, I'm okay with it!
You're okay with it because you're a Google shareholder.
I thought you left and weren't coming back?
By the way, it seems you were pretty far off on your claims that Android is on more carriers than iPhone, so your credibility has taken a bit of a hit while you were sulking.
I doubt those claims about Apple's carrier count and they're unsubstantiated.
And I did leave -- some of us are professionals with real jobs and can't spend all day, every day irrationally defending a company they don't even work for.
I was actually fixing a bug in my company's iPhone app today. On Tuesday I'm resuming work on our Android app.
Some of us don't have allegiances, and that can offend like yourself that swears one. You are immensely childish and doing a disservice to anyone who truly appreciates Apple products.
So what? It seems you might be the one here arguing about something that hasn't actually taken place yet... Flash is still, currently in high demand, it hasn't changed despite some companies using a different video delivery. Flash was extremely popular without video, to think that will kill it is to be naive. I stand by what I said, other factors, would kill it.
YOU can argue til you're blue in the face, however, the difference is, I'm speaking about what is the current reality, and you're making predictions.
I can't say for sure if your predictions for the -future-, are incorrect, and it's a waste of time to bother really at this point, but I can certainly disagree from what I know.
Sure, you can disagree, but Flash's fate is already determined, and its fate is that content providers will abandon it because it can't give them access to the eyeballs they want to reach, but HTML5 can and will.
The EU tends to be more aggressive on antitrust issues, and seems to have a lower threshold of evidence in the law.
That's because everyone's a victim in Europe.
They "innovated" the phone, then the GoggleTV, and even the 1984 commercial. Areal record of innovation. Sort of like Microsoft use to do...
OMG, I need Goggle-TV.
Sure, you can disagree, but Flash's fate is already determined, and its fate is that content providers will abandon it because it can't give them access to the eyeballs they want to reach, but HTML5 can and will.
There's no hard evidence out there to support this, other than predictions.
I can't say you're completely wrong anymore than you can state that with any degree of certainty.
I live in Canada too. Got to play with an android phone and its pretty much an iphone OS copycat, only with garbage multi-touch. The android phone (Sansung) multi-touch I tried is no where near the iphone.
And imo Android is a steal of the iphones OS, so I rather buy an iphone and help the people who really invented the thing.
I dont think Apple is more of a big brother than any other company. You dont "have" to buy from itunes, you can put external music,TV,movies,books into any Apple device. The only thing I see Apple controling is apps in the appstore and you can always jailbreak is you really want to install some wierd app.
You're welcome to your opinion.
On my desk right now at work I've got:
iPhone 3G
iPhone 3GS [personal phone]
iPhone 3GS w/ iPhoneOS 4.0 Beta 4
iPad 16GB
HTC Magic (Android 1.6)
Google Nexus One (Android 2.1) [personal phone]
Google Nexus One (Android 2.2 beta)
Motorola Milestone (Droid in the States) (Android 2.1)
Samsung Galaxy (Android 1.6)
Sony Ericsson X10A (Android 1.6)
HTC Dream (Cyanogen Android)
Palm Pre
Palm Pixi
HTC HD2 (Windows Mobile)
Nokia N97 (Symbian)
Blackberry Bold 2
Blackberry Storm 2
Blackberry Curve 8900
I personally always carry with me my iPhone 3GS (which I bought) and my Nexus One (disclaimer: I got the N1 for free from Google at a conference). I swap the SIM chip between the two a few times a week, because I recognize the strength and utility of both. When the SIM chip is in one, the other uses WiFi.
Neither platform sucks, and the people who assert that one sucks and the other one doesn't are probably not being very honest.
I doubt those claims about Apple's carrier count and they're unsubstantiated.
Well, you claimed Android is on more carriers, so the onus is on you to substantiate your claim.
And I did leave -- some of us are professionals with real jobs and can't spend all day, every day irrationally defending a company they don't even work for.
So you admit that you work for Google? Or are you just here spending part of your day irrationally defending them?
OMG, I need a Goggle TV.
Or a GoOgle TV?
So you admit that you work for Google? Or are you just here spending part of your day irrationally defending them?
I don't work for Google, and I never have. A couple of my ex-colleagues work for Google, but another one works for Apple...another works for Mozilla.
I work for an independent company. I write apps for iPhone, Android, WebOS, Windows Phone, and sometimes Blackberry.
There's no hard evidence out there to support this, other than predictions.
I can't say you're completely wrong anymore than you can state that with any degree of certainty.
Sure, but, if you were a content provider, would you wait to see if you are right, shut out from all those eyeballs while you do, for who knows how long, maybe forever? Or would you just say, "screw it, make us a site that doesn't use Flash, now!" That's why I'm confident that I'm correct.
So you admit that you work for Google? Or are you just here spending part of your day irrationally defending them?
I don't work for Google, and I never have. A couple of my ex-colleagues work for Google, but another one works for Apple...another works for Mozilla.
I work for an independent company.
So, the second option? Glad we cleared that up.
So, the second option? Glad we cleared that up.
Since you're not interested in having a grown-up discussion, I'll leave for a bit again. Maybe someone else here is interested in real discussions, I'll check back later.
The major tech companies are in turmoil as they are desperately trying to respond to the rapid pace of technology driven by Apple. The ignored ipod. They think they have a footing with the iphone, and then sudden the ipad comes along. Since fathead is no longer on the Apple board of directors, they can not divine the course of the future and they are scared. Google, Adobe, Sony and others are huddle, creating alliances, together trying to brace for the tsunami.
SJ is the grandmaster of strategy, and I believe has a plan. We are witness to something great coming. The hardware, software elements are in place. The server farmers are coming in line. Check, check, and checkmate. Can't you sense it?
Since you're not interested in having a grown-up discussion, I'll leave for a bit again. Maybe someone else here is interested in real discussions, I'll check back later.
Well, you could provide those numbers on worldwide Android vs. iPhone carrier dominance, you know, if you wanted to have a "grown up" discussion, instead of just claiming you don't believe the numbers that contradict you. After that, I figured we were done with reasoned argument, so I'd just make fun of you.