First of all there is no such thing as an ancient US president. With that said, the best president of the United States was Jefferson, who, in my opinion, takes the honor easily. Though his activities as President weren't the actions that gave him distinction.
He was the man behind the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The US was the first country where citizenship mattered. It was the beginning of the end for the aristocrats and leaders of overcultured European states of the time. The French revolution that followed so soon after the American constitution, in all likelihood, would not have happened had it not been for the work of Jefferson. Soon, other European states would follow suit. So in a sense he is the man who, to a great extent, liberated the western world.
When I think of Presidents that did well in handling difficult events, Lincoln and FDR come to mind, but FDR doesn't really strike me as a great man. Rather I see him as an old-money American aristocrat with all brains and no balls. When it all comes down to it, I really can't think of a President more able than Jefferson.
It amuses me that people immediately say Lincoln was a great president without any knowledge of what Lincoln was really like, other than he oversaw the civil war. Read up on Lincoln. He never was in favor of the war, or even the abolition of slavery. Just because it happened under his watch doesn't mean he made it happen.
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."
For the U.S. like several people here, Lincon, Teddy R., FDR (Marginal), and Regan was ok, except for "Reganomics".
[quote] "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality." <hr></blockquote>
Duh, do you think anyone runing for President in 1858 would have had a chance in hell of getting elected saying:
"I will say then that I am in favor of bringing about social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, qualifying them to hold office, intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that I believe will allow the two races to live together on terms of social and political equality"
Some of us not only know Lincoln's thoughts about racial equality, we also know the REAL causes of the Civil War. Lincoln was a racist as Joseph Conrad was when he wrote Heart of Darkness -- many think that the only story here is their apparent racism. That has nothing to do with it. We might as well throw out our great people in all of history with that logic. They have all been racist or homophobic or anti-semitic or what-have-you. Michelangelo hated Protestants. Ben Franklin was just plain crass. The emperor Hadrian destroyed the Jewish state in Judea. Their accomplishments are more important than their faults. Sorry to be so un-PC, but don't interpret it as being a bigot. Abraham Lincoln saved the Republic, and frankly his struggles both internal and with the outside world are what I respect the most. No one is perfect, and Jesus wasn't President.
It would be nice if this weren't a near-monopoly on American leaders, but that's what most of us are obviously most familiar with. Any Brits/Welsh/Scots care to take the plunge?
Plus, he started diplomatic relations with China. A swell move. Better to have the 3rd most powerful country doing business with you rather than against you.
And no, I don't think Reagan was a bad president. I put him near the top.
Silent Cal was a decent president, there's no way he could have foreseen the stock market crash that would give Hoover a bad name.
Kennedy was a great speaker, but his Presidency was cut short. Who knows how much more influential he could have been?
Eisenhower was cool because he was cool.
For older Presidents, I'd probably say Lincoln or either of the Adams's.
Overall, I'd probably vote George Washington. He helped a foreign policy that has kept America safe, secure, and prosperous for two centuries.
Reagan was excellent, in my opinion, and the elder Bush is severely underrated. I really wish we could have seen what he would have done with a full eight years.
I generally despise Clinton. He took the credit for the robust economy, though he didn't deserve it, and he somehow managed to ignore foreign policy for eight years and get clapped on the back for it. Bizarre.
George W. Bush is showing a lot of potential. If he can overcome the negative image he's being branded with and make it to another term, he'll do well.
Condoleeza Rice gets my vote for best potential president.
<strong>I'd honestly have to say Nixon is in the running, even though he f*cked it all up with Watergate:
1) He went to China when no one else could.
2) He accomplished putting a man on the moon.
3) I know there's others I can't recall right now. </strong><hr></blockquote>
4) He got us out of Vietnam
People hate Nixon but he really did a lot of good things. What people need to realise is that if Clinton had been President during that time and had had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky, he would have been forced to resign and would have been viewed as the worst president ever.
<strong>... the best president of the United States was Jefferson, who, in my opinion, takes the honor easily. Though his activities as President weren't the actions that gave him distinction.
He was the man behind the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Madison was the primary author of the Constitution. IMO, Jefferson was a great man but a bit of a mixed bag as a President. He did negotiate the Louisiana purchase which was a seriously cool bit of statecraft. But while he was in office Jefferson was never tested in the way that Lincoln was. Lincoln was our greatest President. Washington is a close second. The best modern President was Reagan. I also have a high regard for Truman and Coolidge. But again, Silent Cal was never tested as President the way FDR and Truman were.
Mybe I'm missing something, but IMO, Regan's response to AIDS killed thousands. I cannt see how a person that did this could be called one of the greatest presidents.
<strong>Mybe I'm missing something, but IMO, Regan's response to AIDS killed thousands. I cannt see how a person that did this could be called one of the greatest presidents.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually butt ****ing without a condom did. Unless you're suggesting Reagan spent time in the bath houses <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Sheesh Scott, I can' t believe you actually think the only people that died from AIDS (even in the 80's) were male homos who had anal sex.
Anyhow...
Washington was the most important president. Jefferson was a great man. Lincoln probably had the hardest job as President. Both Roosevelts were great Presidents. Truman and Wilson were great Presidents during time of war.
I've never cared for Hoover, Coolidge or Jackson (now there was a racist).
FWIW, I don't think Lincoln was bigoted. He simply didn't think that Whites and Blacks would ever get along. And in many ways he was correct. If I'm not mistaken, he wanted to ship black people back to Africa.
Actually butt ****ing without a condom did. Unless you're suggesting Reagan spent time in the bath houses
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
that's pretty narrow minded.
if you are president and thousands of your citizens are getting sick and dying from something that no one understands, you need to do something about it.
i know this is off topic, but just to let you know, scott:
in 1981, the first media report of the pandemic was published. the same year, the CDC published reports of an unknown disease. Six years, 36,000 infections, and 21,000 deaths later, Reagan made his first public comment on the disease. in 1988, the National AIDS Commission (which he formed) presented him with over 500 recommendations of how to fight the disease. The list was reduced to 10 items.
i don't know where you come from, but where i come from, that's pretty irresponsible.
<strong>Sheesh Scott, I can' t believe you actually think the only people that died from AIDS (even in the 80's) were male homos who had anal sex. </strong><hr></blockquote>
and by the way the proper way to read Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness IMO, is to see it as a responce to King Leopold of Belgium's outright racist slaughter of black while trying to react to the demand for rubber caused by the invention of rubber bicycle tires. He was not saying that the heart of man's darkness was teh Dark Continent. but rather was saying that what was being done their by the "civilized" world was more savage then could be imagined.
Since you don´t know anything about danish politics I am going with US presidents.
Franklin Roosevelt: I know only a little about New Deal but it seems like good old european Social Democratic/Keynes economic policy. Its not always effective but at least it puts people first.
Kennedy: Cuban Missile Crisis. he saved 4 billion+ lifes.
First, as for the best presidents of my country, I would have to go with Lincoln and FDR.
Now, on the issue of Nixon. Sure, he theoretically pulled as out of the Vietnam War, but he also considered using a nuclear weapon in Vietnam. Additionally, it was his administration that started the spiral of inflation that eventually undermined Carter's administration. And while the space program only culminated with the man on the moon during Nixon's admin, that was all due to inertia from Kennedy and Johnson.
Edit: One more thing on Nixon. His assurances to the Suharto regime in Indonesia directly led to the Indonesian invasion of East Timor, which resulted in the ethnic cleansing of 800,000 East Timorese Catholics (ie, not a good thing)
Comments
<strong>In the US I think Clinton was the best president since Kennedy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bwahahaha. Or as Bender says in tonights hilarious episode of Futurama: "Oh, you were serious; BWAHAHAHA"
He was the man behind the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The US was the first country where citizenship mattered. It was the beginning of the end for the aristocrats and leaders of overcultured European states of the time. The French revolution that followed so soon after the American constitution, in all likelihood, would not have happened had it not been for the work of Jefferson. Soon, other European states would follow suit. So in a sense he is the man who, to a great extent, liberated the western world.
When I think of Presidents that did well in handling difficult events, Lincoln and FDR come to mind, but FDR doesn't really strike me as a great man. Rather I see him as an old-money American aristocrat with all brains and no balls. When it all comes down to it, I really can't think of a President more able than Jefferson.
Abraham Lincoln, September 18, 1858
[quote] "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality." <hr></blockquote>
Duh, do you think anyone runing for President in 1858 would have had a chance in hell of getting elected saying:
"I will say then that I am in favor of bringing about social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, qualifying them to hold office, intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that I believe will allow the two races to live together on terms of social and political equality"
Jeez think with your head.
Vietnam ended under Nixon's Presidency. FACT.
He got us out of Vietnam. FACT.
Plus, he started diplomatic relations with China. A swell move. Better to have the 3rd most powerful country doing business with you rather than against you.
And no, I don't think Reagan was a bad president. I put him near the top.
Silent Cal was a decent president, there's no way he could have foreseen the stock market crash that would give Hoover a bad name.
Kennedy was a great speaker, but his Presidency was cut short. Who knows how much more influential he could have been?
Eisenhower was cool because he was cool.
For older Presidents, I'd probably say Lincoln or either of the Adams's.
[ 02-10-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
Reagan was excellent, in my opinion, and the elder Bush is severely underrated. I really wish we could have seen what he would have done with a full eight years.
I generally despise Clinton. He took the credit for the robust economy, though he didn't deserve it, and he somehow managed to ignore foreign policy for eight years and get clapped on the back for it. Bizarre.
George W. Bush is showing a lot of potential. If he can overcome the negative image he's being branded with and make it to another term, he'll do well.
Condoleeza Rice gets my vote for best potential president.
<strong>I'd honestly have to say Nixon is in the running, even though he f*cked it all up with Watergate:
1) He went to China when no one else could.
2) He accomplished putting a man on the moon.
3) I know there's others I can't recall right now.
4) He got us out of Vietnam
People hate Nixon but he really did a lot of good things. What people need to realise is that if Clinton had been President during that time and had had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky, he would have been forced to resign and would have been viewed as the worst president ever.
<strong>... the best president of the United States was Jefferson, who, in my opinion, takes the honor easily. Though his activities as President weren't the actions that gave him distinction.
He was the man behind the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Madison was the primary author of the Constitution. IMO, Jefferson was a great man but a bit of a mixed bag as a President. He did negotiate the Louisiana purchase which was a seriously cool bit of statecraft. But while he was in office Jefferson was never tested in the way that Lincoln was. Lincoln was our greatest President. Washington is a close second. The best modern President was Reagan. I also have a high regard for Truman and Coolidge. But again, Silent Cal was never tested as President the way FDR and Truman were.
<strong>I'd honestly have to say Nixon is in the running, even though he f*cked it all up with Watergate:
1) He went to China when no one else could.
2) He accomplished putting a man on the moon.
3) I know there's others I can't recall right now.
4) The EPA was formed under Nixon.
<strong>Mybe I'm missing something, but IMO, Regan's response to AIDS killed thousands. I cannt see how a person that did this could be called one of the greatest presidents.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually butt ****ing without a condom did. Unless you're suggesting Reagan spent time in the bath houses <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
Anyhow...
Washington was the most important president. Jefferson was a great man. Lincoln probably had the hardest job as President. Both Roosevelts were great Presidents. Truman and Wilson were great Presidents during time of war.
I've never cared for Hoover, Coolidge or Jackson (now there was a racist).
FWIW, I don't think Lincoln was bigoted. He simply didn't think that Whites and Blacks would ever get along. And in many ways he was correct. If I'm not mistaken, he wanted to ship black people back to Africa.
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: seb ]</p>
<strong>
Actually butt ****ing without a condom did. Unless you're suggesting Reagan spent time in the bath houses
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
that's pretty narrow minded.
if you are president and thousands of your citizens are getting sick and dying from something that no one understands, you need to do something about it.
i know this is off topic, but just to let you know, scott:
in 1981, the first media report of the pandemic was published. the same year, the CDC published reports of an unknown disease. Six years, 36,000 infections, and 21,000 deaths later, Reagan made his first public comment on the disease. in 1988, the National AIDS Commission (which he formed) presented him with over 500 recommendations of how to fight the disease. The list was reduced to 10 items.
i don't know where you come from, but where i come from, that's pretty irresponsible.
cheers.
<strong>Sheesh Scott, I can' t believe you actually think the only people that died from AIDS (even in the 80's) were male homos who had anal sex.
Is that what I said
and by the way the proper way to read Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness IMO, is to see it as a responce to King Leopold of Belgium's outright racist slaughter of black while trying to react to the demand for rubber caused by the invention of rubber bicycle tires. He was not saying that the heart of man's darkness was teh Dark Continent. but rather was saying that what was being done their by the "civilized" world was more savage then could be imagined.
I like him
Since you don´t know anything about danish politics I am going with US presidents.
Franklin Roosevelt: I know only a little about New Deal but it seems like good old european Social Democratic/Keynes economic policy. Its not always effective but at least it puts people first.
Kennedy: Cuban Missile Crisis. he saved 4 billion+ lifes.
Now, on the issue of Nixon. Sure, he theoretically pulled as out of the Vietnam War, but he also considered using a nuclear weapon in Vietnam. Additionally, it was his administration that started the spiral of inflation that eventually undermined Carter's administration. And while the space program only culminated with the man on the moon during Nixon's admin, that was all due to inertia from Kennedy and Johnson.
Edit: One more thing on Nixon. His assurances to the Suharto regime in Indonesia directly led to the Indonesian invasion of East Timor, which resulted in the ethnic cleansing of 800,000 East Timorese Catholics (ie, not a good thing)
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: agent302 ]</p>