don't look at me heeb... i just said it... yer the one that flinched.
frugal with my bait,
cuss
quote:
yo haifa,
boot me if you can...
cuss
p.s. if it walks, talks and acts like a eugenecist....
So your remarks were addressed to someone else? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
And what's with name calling? Makes you feel more of a redneck? Come to think of it, your slang sounds alot like some rasta people I used to know. I wonder..
Give, me the numbers first, They could be worth your history lesson... (see, I can negotiate like Sharon...) </strong><hr></blockquote>
ok. We have deal. I'll photo copy the info, post it on my web site and will provide you will complete references to verify. Can't wait for that history lesson. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>Can't wait for you to prove that Palestine was deserted before the zionists came... </strong><hr></blockquote>
:eek: You must be really dense. Here's what I said, again.
quote:
"quote:
Show me another estimate, (preferably not of my IQ)
I don't need to show you an estimate of the numbers. The facts are clearly recorded. Unfortunately, these only relate to the Jewish migration into the holy land. You'll never find any figures on the Arab migration into the holy land, particularly between 1947 and 1967 when these areas were under their control. This is because the Arabs don't want that information released."
To recap: These only relate to the Jewish migration.
So what you are saying is that my numbers on jewish migration are totally wrong?
And so are my numbers on the palestinians who lived there (But this part you cannot prove)?
Since our argument is about the historic rights to this country, you better prove my numbers dead wrong then...
You know of course that even Herzl referd to the area as "Palestine" during the late 1890's in his negotiations with the Turk Sultan (a significant mulim leader), who was at war with the arabs and sympatetic with the zionist cause...
This is very common and has always been a part of peacedeals. Like after the Napoleon wars, WWI, WWII, the korean war, the bosnian war, the kosovo-conflict... etc. etc...</strong><hr></blockquote>I'd be interested in seeing this information, too. I also think it would be appropriate to add the additional qualifier that the loser was still attacking the victor.
I.e., another way of stating this is, how many times has an attacker been given land in order to stop attacking? The closest I can think of is when Chamberlain et al. allowed the Germans to keep what they had taken at the start of WWII.
So what you are saying is that my numbers on jewish migration are totally wrong?
I don't know. I know the numbers concerning the Arabs are out of the hat, so to speak. You can?t get any numbers you can rely on. They don?t exist. And the ones that do, are highly suspect.
My claim is only related to the "redistribution" of land as a part of a peacedeal.
Since both who started the conflict and How victorious (if at all) the winning party actually is, is always quite hard to determin.
While looking up on this I was reminded that the clearly most relevant example here is Egypt and Sinai (captured by Isreal in 67)... The egypt offensive (in 73) was in the beginning very succesful in crossing the Suez and retriving large parts of the Sinai. But the Isreali counteroffensive stoped the egyptian progress and started to drive them slowly backwards. The Isreali millitary cost was so big however, that a US negotiated ceasefire was achived. This in turn led to the withdrawal (aka giving back) of the whole of Sinai to Egypt in 1979... Since then Egypt and Isreal has had better relations than any other arab country...
On BBC just now... The Falkland Islands to be negotiated back to to Argentine... (maybe)
Let's continue tomorrow... (you still owe little cuss an apology...)
p.s. to libby hippy New: Curlylocks the diamond merchant isn't WAY out of line until i say he is. the poor sob is constipated with hate... and i'm here to help unclog him.
p.p.s. Demons out i say! no heebie, not the palestinians. that bad bullet that's got yer fanxter prolapsed.
[quote]p.s. to libby hippy New: Curlylocks the diamond merchant isn't WAY out of line until i say he is. the poor sob is constipated with hate... and i'm here to help unclog him.<hr></blockquote>
I'm not a big Sharon fan, but what Israel is doing now finally makes sense. They will get proof that Arafat is behind the suicide attacks,they will kill many terrorists, find arms caches, and wall off the palestinians until they realize that they ****ed up big time. Sharon should have done this weeks ago. Weed out the bad guys, make sure the palestinians know that Israel's military is still the best in the area, and make sure they realize that suicide bombings will end up making the entire palestinian population miserable.
They underestimated Israeli resolve-BIG MISTAKE..........................
The egypt offensive (in 73) was in the beginning very succesful in crossing the Suez and retriving large parts of the Sinai. But the Isreali counteroffensive stoped the egyptian progress and started to drive them slowly backwards. The Isreali millitary cost was so big however, that a US negotiated ceasefire was achived
Wrong. Israel agreed to a cease-fire after gaining that advantage crossing the Suez because the soviets threatened nuclear war and the Americans just didn?t want to call their bluff.
So Israel went along with the Americans as sign of gratitude for the American arms airlift and the help given by the American in electronically defeating the SA missile threat that knocked out so many Israeli Aircrafts at the initial stages of that war.
Quote:
Since then Egypt and Isreal has had better relations than any other arab country...
Wrong again. Relations between Egypt and Israel are not much better than those relations between Americans and the Soviets during the cold war. Israel does enjoy friendly relations with some Arab states, but they are closely guarded and concealed from the public.
As far as the treaty between Israel and Egypt, it is more fragile than most people think. At the moment it suits both parties interest to maintain the treaty. But I wouldn?t count on those mutual interests to remain so indefinitely.
Documents show link between militants, Palestinian leadership
JERUSALEM (AP) - The army said it found a letter at Yasser Arafat's compound, written by a militant group to Arafat's chief financial officer, requesting money needed to make up to nine bombs a week.
The document details costs incurred by the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a militia linked to Arafat's Fatah movement, and
was found in the office of Fuad Shobaki, chief financial
officer for the Palestinian Authority, said intelligence officer Col. Miri Eisin.
"I call it a terror invoice, of how much terrorism costs," she told a news conference.
The letter was among documents seized after tanks and troops stormed into Arafat's compound Friday, following a wave of Palestinian suicide bomb attacks.
Asked about the documents, senior Palestinian official
Saeb Erekat said he had not seen them. But he said Israeli
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon "has asked everyone to help
with his public relations campaign and the Israelis are
very busy fabricating things."
The government said the documents are legitimate and
important.
"What we have here for the first time is a document which
connects directly those responsible for terrorist activity
and their requesting the money from an official person
within the Palestinian Authority, and not just any person,
but Shobaki," said Eisin.
At the government?s demand, the Palestinians arrested Shobaki earlier this year for his alleged involvement in the ?Karine A? arms shipment seized in the Red Sea. The government says Shobaki helped organize the shipment, which was from Iran and headed to the Gaza Strip.
Shobaki is currently in Arafat's besieged compound in Ramallah, the government says.
In the document, dated September 17, 2001, the Al Aqsa Brigades state their largest expense has been electrical components and chemical supplies for the production of charges and bombs, and that each explosive cost at least NIS 700 (about $150).
"We need about five to nine bombs a week for our cells in various areas" the document says.
The letter also asks for NIS 82,000 (more than $17,000) to be immediately transferred to purchase ammunition for automatic rifles.
"We require this ammunition on a daily basis," it said.
It also lists the costs of memorial services for Al Aqsa
members who are killed, as well as printing posters, invitations and tents for mourners.
The army also found a box of counterfeit money and plates for printing more in the compound Friday.
Looks like Arafat was caught with his pants down. Again.
[quote] Wrong. Israel agreed to a cease-fire after gaining that advantage crossing the Suez because the soviets threatened nuclear war and the Americans just didn?t want to call their bluff. <hr></blockquote>
I guess in your world, there will always be someone else to blame... My version is what you'll find in most historybooks...
[quote] Wrong again. Relations between Egypt and Israel are not much better than those relations between Americans and the Soviets during the cold war. Israel does enjoy friendly relations with some Arab states, but they are closely guarded and concealed from the public. <hr></blockquote>
But you have all the secret information do you? What arab country is more friendly to Israel?
Still my example still holds up as an example of land for peace... How are those numbers comming...?
Still my example still holds up as an example of land for peace...
No it doesn?t. You were asked which country other than Israel was asked to agree to such ludicrous terms. You cited some examples, stick to them. All we want are the details.
quote:
How are those numbers comming...?
You?re gonna have to wait on those demographic stats. The weather is shity here today. But don?t worry, I?m gonna do my best to keep you to your word. I?m very interested in those 5 examples. I just hope you don?t turn into another Arafat when I finally post those numbers.
Comments
don't look at me heeb... i just said it... yer the one that flinched.
frugal with my bait,
cuss
quote:
yo haifa,
boot me if you can...
cuss
p.s. if it walks, talks and acts like a eugenecist....
So your remarks were addressed to someone else? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
And what's with name calling? Makes you feel more of a redneck? Come to think of it, your slang sounds alot like some rasta people I used to know. I wonder..
mika.
[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>LC:
Give, me the numbers first, They could be worth your history lesson... (see, I can negotiate like Sharon...)
ok. We have deal. I'll photo copy the info, post it on my web site and will provide you will complete references to verify. Can't wait for that history lesson. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
mika.
<strong>Can't wait for you to prove that Palestine was deserted before the zionists came...
:eek: You must be really dense. Here's what I said, again.
quote:
"quote:
Show me another estimate, (preferably not of my IQ)
I don't need to show you an estimate of the numbers. The facts are clearly recorded. Unfortunately, these only relate to the Jewish migration into the holy land. You'll never find any figures on the Arab migration into the holy land, particularly between 1947 and 1967 when these areas were under their control. This is because the Arabs don't want that information released."
To recap: These only relate to the Jewish migration.
mika.
i don't fiddle with yids that quote counterpoints incessantly and use emoticons.
i know what i said nig, you needn't repeat it...
cuss
if you'll try it like this, you anal-retentive moron-racist disguised in a mortarboard ... you'll get a straight answer.
ie
haifa: "yo cuss, you calling me a racist by beating me over the head with racist slurs?"
cuss: "you damned straight!"
mika.
And so are my numbers on the palestinians who lived there (But this part you cannot prove)?
Since our argument is about the historic rights to this country, you better prove my numbers dead wrong then...
You know of course that even Herzl referd to the area as "Palestine" during the late 1890's in his negotiations with the Turk Sultan (a significant mulim leader), who was at war with the arabs and sympatetic with the zionist cause...
you are WAY out of line here...
<strong>quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see too many victors trying to sign a peace treaty and giving back land they lost-especially to people who started the war in the first place.
---------------------------------------------------------------
This is very common and has always been a part of peacedeals. Like after the Napoleon wars, WWI, WWII, the korean war, the bosnian war, the kosovo-conflict... etc. etc...</strong><hr></blockquote>I'd be interested in seeing this information, too. I also think it would be appropriate to add the additional qualifier that the loser was still attacking the victor.
I.e., another way of stating this is, how many times has an attacker been given land in order to stop attacking? The closest I can think of is when Chamberlain et al. allowed the Germans to keep what they had taken at the start of WWII.
So what you are saying is that my numbers on jewish migration are totally wrong?
I don't know. I know the numbers concerning the Arabs are out of the hat, so to speak. You can?t get any numbers you can rely on. They don?t exist. And the ones that do, are highly suspect.
mika.
mika.
Since both who started the conflict and How victorious (if at all) the winning party actually is, is always quite hard to determin.
While looking up on this I was reminded that the clearly most relevant example here is Egypt and Sinai (captured by Isreal in 67)... The egypt offensive (in 73) was in the beginning very succesful in crossing the Suez and retriving large parts of the Sinai. But the Isreali counteroffensive stoped the egyptian progress and started to drive them slowly backwards. The Isreali millitary cost was so big however, that a US negotiated ceasefire was achived. This in turn led to the withdrawal (aka giving back) of the whole of Sinai to Egypt in 1979... Since then Egypt and Isreal has had better relations than any other arab country...
On BBC just now... The Falkland Islands to be negotiated back to to Argentine... (maybe)
Let's continue tomorrow... (you still owe little cuss an apology...)
[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
yer money-grubbin' momma seemed to like it.
cuss
p.s. to libby hippy New: Curlylocks the diamond merchant isn't WAY out of line until i say he is. the poor sob is constipated with hate... and i'm here to help unclog him.
p.p.s. Demons out i say! no heebie, not the palestinians. that bad bullet that's got yer fanxter prolapsed.
They underestimated Israeli resolve-BIG MISTAKE..........................
The egypt offensive (in 73) was in the beginning very succesful in crossing the Suez and retriving large parts of the Sinai. But the Isreali counteroffensive stoped the egyptian progress and started to drive them slowly backwards. The Isreali millitary cost was so big however, that a US negotiated ceasefire was achived
Wrong. Israel agreed to a cease-fire after gaining that advantage crossing the Suez because the soviets threatened nuclear war and the Americans just didn?t want to call their bluff.
So Israel went along with the Americans as sign of gratitude for the American arms airlift and the help given by the American in electronically defeating the SA missile threat that knocked out so many Israeli Aircrafts at the initial stages of that war.
Quote:
Since then Egypt and Isreal has had better relations than any other arab country...
Wrong again. Relations between Egypt and Israel are not much better than those relations between Americans and the Soviets during the cold war. Israel does enjoy friendly relations with some Arab states, but they are closely guarded and concealed from the public.
As far as the treaty between Israel and Egypt, it is more fragile than most people think. At the moment it suits both parties interest to maintain the treaty. But I wouldn?t count on those mutual interests to remain so indefinitely.
Quote:
(you still owe little cuss an apology...)
Now repeat after me New:
I am not a pleasure unit.
Again:
I am not a pleasure unit.
Repeat again:
I am not a pleasure unit.
mika.
[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<a href="http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/04/02/LatestNews/LatestNews.46247.html"; target="_blank">http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/04/02/LatestNews/LatestNews.46247.html</a>;
quote:
Documents show link between militants, Palestinian leadership
JERUSALEM (AP) - The army said it found a letter at Yasser Arafat's compound, written by a militant group to Arafat's chief financial officer, requesting money needed to make up to nine bombs a week.
The document details costs incurred by the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a militia linked to Arafat's Fatah movement, and
was found in the office of Fuad Shobaki, chief financial
officer for the Palestinian Authority, said intelligence officer Col. Miri Eisin.
"I call it a terror invoice, of how much terrorism costs," she told a news conference.
The letter was among documents seized after tanks and troops stormed into Arafat's compound Friday, following a wave of Palestinian suicide bomb attacks.
Asked about the documents, senior Palestinian official
Saeb Erekat said he had not seen them. But he said Israeli
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon "has asked everyone to help
with his public relations campaign and the Israelis are
very busy fabricating things."
The government said the documents are legitimate and
important.
"What we have here for the first time is a document which
connects directly those responsible for terrorist activity
and their requesting the money from an official person
within the Palestinian Authority, and not just any person,
but Shobaki," said Eisin.
At the government?s demand, the Palestinians arrested Shobaki earlier this year for his alleged involvement in the ?Karine A? arms shipment seized in the Red Sea. The government says Shobaki helped organize the shipment, which was from Iran and headed to the Gaza Strip.
Shobaki is currently in Arafat's besieged compound in Ramallah, the government says.
In the document, dated September 17, 2001, the Al Aqsa Brigades state their largest expense has been electrical components and chemical supplies for the production of charges and bombs, and that each explosive cost at least NIS 700 (about $150).
"We need about five to nine bombs a week for our cells in various areas" the document says.
The letter also asks for NIS 82,000 (more than $17,000) to be immediately transferred to purchase ammunition for automatic rifles.
"We require this ammunition on a daily basis," it said.
It also lists the costs of memorial services for Al Aqsa
members who are killed, as well as printing posters, invitations and tents for mourners.
The army also found a box of counterfeit money and plates for printing more in the compound Friday.
Looks like Arafat was caught with his pants down. Again.
You can get more details here: <a href="http://www.debka.com"; target="_blank">http://www.debka.com</a>;
mika.
I guess in your world, there will always be someone else to blame... My version is what you'll find in most historybooks...
[quote] Wrong again. Relations between Egypt and Israel are not much better than those relations between Americans and the Soviets during the cold war. Israel does enjoy friendly relations with some Arab states, but they are closely guarded and concealed from the public. <hr></blockquote>
But you have all the secret information do you? What arab country is more friendly to Israel?
Still my example still holds up as an example of land for peace... How are those numbers comming...?
Still my example still holds up as an example of land for peace...
No it doesn?t. You were asked which country other than Israel was asked to agree to such ludicrous terms. You cited some examples, stick to them. All we want are the details.
quote:
How are those numbers comming...?
You?re gonna have to wait on those demographic stats. The weather is shity here today. But don?t worry, I?m gonna do my best to keep you to your word. I?m very interested in those 5 examples. I just hope you don?t turn into another Arafat when I finally post those numbers.
mika.