Absolutely. This could be a work-around for the at&t exclusivity agreement. It also means the end of agreement is probably near. Even though I'm an at&t employee I can't wait to see the end. Then we'll finally know if Android is all it's cracked up to be. We'll also know if some of the reported problems are network or device related. iPhone users apparently gobble a lot more bandwidth than other device users. When the iPhone is finally available on all the major U.S. carriers it will confirm or finally lay to rest all the FUD that's been spread around thickly for the last three years.
Or maybe not. FUD has a life of its own.
Its not FUD if its true. I've been using T-Mobile on my 3G for a month and have really enjoyed being able to make phone calls. Its really like night and day.
... In the sense that the Marketplace has the same content as iTunes, then yes, it is pretty equivalent in as an ecosystem for buying music and movies. ...
It's not. Almost everyone already has at least one iPod, in addition to any smartphone they may have, and the iTunes/iPod ecosystem will simply work better for them with their smartphone than throwing another element into the mix. People want to simplify their lives, not increase complexity.
However, I read somewhere that T-Mobile has a smaller 3G footprint and is slower since it does not support HSDPA (7.2MB)....unlike AT&T. The 3GS would not be able to utilize this higher speed service on T-Mobile.
They support HSDPA+ as well. Also, the 3G suffers from slowdowns of ios4, not the 3GS.
It's not. Almost everyone already has at least one iPod, in addition to any smartphone they may have, and the iTunes/iPod ecosystem will simply work better for them with their smartphone than throwing another element into the mix. People want to simplify their lives, not increase complexity.
I do not understand the argument. Any smartphone purchase would replace the iPod.
1. A smartphone would replace the iPod - I gave my daughter my touch when I got my iPhone - precisely to simplify my life so I did not have to carry multiple devices.
So if someone buys a WP7 their music library transfers to the Zune software to manage the library. I assume the same is true for a lot of Android users, it is at least the case for the Android users I know. The only issue, as I said before, are the apps. But in terms of music, not so much.
2. How does the iTunes/iPod ecosystem work better for an Android phone or even a Windows phone?
If you own an iPhone, that is certainly the case. Again, for the Android users I know, they do not use an iPod anymore, and moved to some Android music player.
I do not understand the argument. Any smartphone purchase would replace the iPod.
1. A smartphone would replace the iPod - I gave my daughter my touch when I got my iPhone - precisely to simplify my life so I did not have to carry multiple devices.
So if someone buys a WP7 their music library transfers to the Zune software to manage the library. I assume the same is true for a lot of Android users, it is at least the case for the Android users I know. The only issue, as I said before, are the apps. But in terms of music, not so much.
2. How does the iTunes/iPod ecosystem work better for an Android phone or even a Windows phone?
If you own an iPhone, that is certainly the case. Again, for the Android users I know, they do not use an iPod anymore, and moved to some Android music player.
Most iPhone users continue to use their iPod devices, at least some of the time, like when at the gym or out on a run. So, so far, the iPod hardware isn't going away. So, the way the iTunes/iPod ecosystem works better for an Android or Windows phone user is to ditch it for an iPhone.
Yes, a lot of people are using their iPhones as iPods today, but they are also using their iPods as iPods for activities where they don't want the phone but they do want their music, a trend which I think has had a lot to do with the direction the iPod device (non-Touch) lineup has evolved -- simple, clip-on devices that don't interfere with activities.
In this particular case, you need to dissociate the hardware (Zune player) from the software (a place to buy movies etc). The player is not popular, but that is not relevant for a WP7 phone.
The important aspect is a place for purchasing and viewing/listening to entertainment content.
In the sense that the Marketplace has the same content as iTunes, then yes, it is pretty equivalent in as an ecosystem for buying music and movies.
Contrast this with Android, where you currently have to go somewhere else (e.g., Amazon) to buy music. With the WP7, for better or worse, you stay in the MS environment, as you do with Apple and iTunes. In both cases, you have a consistent experience.
Does MS still have the indirect payment method-- where you buy digital tokens, or some such (in fixed amounts)-- than pay for purchase with the tokens? In other words, MS is always working with your money. When first presented, I thought that was kind of weird-- like buying yourself a gift certificate.
Maybe MS was trying to minimize the cost of CC transactions...
Apple does this by not immediately charging individual transactions (we are working on Apples money) in hopes the user will make other purchases that can be combined into a single CC transaction!
If they use 1700MHz, then you could use Virgin Mobile's $25/ month plan and get unlimited text, web, etc. Virgin Mobile uses the Sprint network.
Anybody know?
Sprint uses CDMA, like Verizon, so they are out of this conversation altogether. Since Virgin Mobile uses Sprint, they are also CDMA. To add to that, the phone would have to be specifically designated as pre-paid in the system in order for it to activate for Virgin Mobile. In other words, Sprint would enter in your phone's IMEI (ID #) and see in their system if it is qualified for pre-paid or not. I can almost guarantee it wouldn't be, but you never know. Nevertheless, like a Verizon iPhone, a CDMA version would have to be built for this to be relevant at all anyway.
Unlikely, since people aren't going to want to give up the compatibility with the whole iTunes ecosystem, their app investment, etc. Google discourages paid apps to increase add opportunities, but the (other) negative side-effect for them is that Android users won't feel like they have to give up much, if any, investment to switch, whereas iPhone users will.
EDIT: Although, why anyone would lend any credence to a rumor from ("The internet is dead!") Wired...
who says?
my wife just upgraded from a 3G to a 4. the 3G went to our son with kids games on it and it's an ipod touch now. if i go to an android phone next year i can still use my 3GS as an iPod Touch and all the apps on it. anything requiring 3G will be on the new android phone out of the box
except for games the two platforms are about 90% the same. in some cases android versions of apps get cool new features first
my wife just upgraded from a 3G to a 4. the 3G went to our son with kids games on it and it's an ipod touch now. if i go to an android phone next year i can still use my 3GS as an iPod Touch and all the apps on it. anything requiring 3G will be on the new android phone out of the box
Sure, at the disadvantage of having to carry 2 devices around with you, and remember which one it is you need to perform any specific task. Yeah, some people do this, particularly Blackberry users, with an iPod touch + smartphone now, but it's hardly an elegant solution. One assumes you want a smartphone to improve your life, not to take it over. What's next, bag o' smartphones that you rummage through till you find the one with the right app?
Although, I think your comment that, "anything requiring 3G will be on the new android phone out of the box," is a bit over optimistic, unless you ignore the fact that you won't always have WiFi. An iPod touch is not an iPhone without calls.
It wouldn't surprise me if this T-Mobile move is a concession to Deutche Telekom. If Apple will soon be allowing competition in Germany with iPhone usage then I'm sure DT has argued it should be allowed the same in the USA.
Regarding Virgin Mobile USA, they were recently bought by Sprint. Virgin Mobile USA is now just a "name" for one of Sprint's services, primarily geared to the non-contract buy your own cheap phone customer. So if Sprint gets a CDMA iPhone, it will ultimately be up to them to decide if non-contract iPhones will be sold and used under their Virgin Mobile USA banner.
In the sense that the Marketplace has the same content as iTunes, then yes, it is pretty equivalent in as an ecosystem for buying music and movies
Unless you are using a Mac.
Not that it matters but iTunes is available for Windows so why isn't Zune Store and player available for Macs? Must be the extremely low market share, right?
Not that it matters but iTunes is available for Windows so why isn't Zune Store and player available for Macs? Must be the extremely low market share, right?
I agree, there is no real reason for a Mac user to get a WP7, that is not going to happen. My point was though, if you are a Windows user, there is the potential for the seamless integration on Windows that iPhone users have on the Mac.
I have no idea why MS did not write Zune software for the Mac.
I'd still hop on that with T-Mobile. They still need to optimize the iOS further than they have with 4.1 though. It still looks slow in some cases as seen on many blogs.
Nah, don't know what people are complaining about, iPhone 3GS on iOS 4 is really quite acceptable, IMO. It's the iPhone 3G that really struggles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations
However, I read somewhere that T-Mobile has a smaller 3G footprint and is slower since it does not support HSDPA (7.2MB)....unlike AT&T. The 3GS would not be able to utilize this higher speed service on T-Mobile.
Well, about 2mbps is fast enough for a "simpler" iPhone. Again, Apple's probably testing the 1700MHz waters and in the labs refining their CDMA engineering. Imagine if a big iPhone 5 Verizon rollout had antenna "issues"...!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Absolutely. This could be a work-around for the at&t exclusivity agreement. It also means the end of agreement is probably near. Even though I'm an at&t employee I can't wait to see the end. Then we'll finally know if Android is all it's cracked up to be. We'll also know if some of the reported problems are network or device related. iPhone users apparently gobble a lot more bandwidth than other device users. When the iPhone is finally available on all the major U.S. carriers it will confirm or finally lay to rest all the FUD that's been spread around thickly for the last three years.
Or maybe not. FUD has a life of its own.
Isn't Apple's R&D strategy wonderful? Profitable market testing of a CDMA phone and a clear shot across the bow of AT&T signalling, THE END OF ALL THINGS (EXCLUSIVE).
My gut instinct though is that this is too small of a deal for Apple to get involved in. It's iPhone 5 CDMA version alongside iPhone 5 (probably with 1700mhz??) or bust.
I do not understand the argument. Any smartphone purchase would replace the iPod.
1. A smartphone would replace the iPod - I gave my daughter my touch when I got my iPhone - precisely to simplify my life so I did not have to carry multiple devices.
So if someone buys a WP7 their music library transfers to the Zune software to manage the library. I assume the same is true for a lot of Android users, it is at least the case for the Android users I know. The only issue, as I said before, are the apps. But in terms of music, not so much.
2. How does the iTunes/iPod ecosystem work better for an Android phone or even a Windows phone?
If you own an iPhone, that is certainly the case. Again, for the Android users I know, they do not use an iPod anymore, and moved to some Android music player.
Many people (especially younger demographics like myself) are introduced to MP3 players like the iPod before they are introduced to smartphones, since smartphones cost A LOT more than iPods and comparable devices. For anyone with an iPod, that generally means they'll build up a library in iTunes before they buy their first smartphone
Once you have that iTunes library built up (even if it's only in the 2-4 GB range), it takes a tremendous amount of work to transfer it to another ecosystem. This was particularly true back in the days of iTunes FairPlay (happily, those days are over)
For me (I own an Android device and a 32GB Touch I got on the cheap with my notebook for college), it wasn't worth the effort to get my relatively large 42 GB iTunes library onto my Android device, especially because 32GB is the maximum available size of a microSD card. I'd much rather pay $100 for an excellent iPod Touch that integrates perfectly with my existing library and has substantially better battery performance than my Android (seriously, the Touch basically uses no power when it's not playing music! It lasts freaking forever)
And the two of them stacked are about 2cm thick (e.g. much thinner than my wallet), so they've been able to fit together even in the tightest pants I have
Obviously, I can't speak for the market at large, so I might just be a huge anomaly
As for a hypothetical T-Mobile iPhone, I always expected T-Mobile to be the first carrier to get the iPhone in the US after AT&T. As far as I know, all Apple needs to do is purchase a bunch of UMTS/HSPA chipsets that work on T-Mobile's frequencies, and the iPhone is 3G ready for T-Mobile.
I'm hardly a mobile phone engineer, but I would presume that more work would be needed to get the iPhone running on Verizon or Sprint (although I'd be hardly surprised if Apple had been building CDMA2000 1xRTT/EV-DO iPhones internally, much as they did with x86 builds of OS X).
Comments
Absolutely. This could be a work-around for the at&t exclusivity agreement. It also means the end of agreement is probably near. Even though I'm an at&t employee I can't wait to see the end. Then we'll finally know if Android is all it's cracked up to be. We'll also know if some of the reported problems are network or device related. iPhone users apparently gobble a lot more bandwidth than other device users. When the iPhone is finally available on all the major U.S. carriers it will confirm or finally lay to rest all the FUD that's been spread around thickly for the last three years.
Or maybe not. FUD has a life of its own.
Its not FUD if its true. I've been using T-Mobile on my 3G for a month and have really enjoyed being able to make phone calls. Its really like night and day.
... In the sense that the Marketplace has the same content as iTunes, then yes, it is pretty equivalent in as an ecosystem for buying music and movies. ...
It's not. Almost everyone already has at least one iPod, in addition to any smartphone they may have, and the iTunes/iPod ecosystem will simply work better for them with their smartphone than throwing another element into the mix. People want to simplify their lives, not increase complexity.
However, I read somewhere that T-Mobile has a smaller 3G footprint and is slower since it does not support HSDPA (7.2MB)....unlike AT&T. The 3GS would not be able to utilize this higher speed service on T-Mobile.
They support HSDPA+ as well. Also, the 3G suffers from slowdowns of ios4, not the 3GS.
It's not. Almost everyone already has at least one iPod, in addition to any smartphone they may have, and the iTunes/iPod ecosystem will simply work better for them with their smartphone than throwing another element into the mix. People want to simplify their lives, not increase complexity.
I do not understand the argument. Any smartphone purchase would replace the iPod.
1. A smartphone would replace the iPod - I gave my daughter my touch when I got my iPhone - precisely to simplify my life so I did not have to carry multiple devices.
So if someone buys a WP7 their music library transfers to the Zune software to manage the library. I assume the same is true for a lot of Android users, it is at least the case for the Android users I know. The only issue, as I said before, are the apps. But in terms of music, not so much.
2. How does the iTunes/iPod ecosystem work better for an Android phone or even a Windows phone?
If you own an iPhone, that is certainly the case. Again, for the Android users I know, they do not use an iPod anymore, and moved to some Android music player.
I do not understand the argument. Any smartphone purchase would replace the iPod.
1. A smartphone would replace the iPod - I gave my daughter my touch when I got my iPhone - precisely to simplify my life so I did not have to carry multiple devices.
So if someone buys a WP7 their music library transfers to the Zune software to manage the library. I assume the same is true for a lot of Android users, it is at least the case for the Android users I know. The only issue, as I said before, are the apps. But in terms of music, not so much.
2. How does the iTunes/iPod ecosystem work better for an Android phone or even a Windows phone?
If you own an iPhone, that is certainly the case. Again, for the Android users I know, they do not use an iPod anymore, and moved to some Android music player.
Most iPhone users continue to use their iPod devices, at least some of the time, like when at the gym or out on a run. So, so far, the iPod hardware isn't going away. So, the way the iTunes/iPod ecosystem works better for an Android or Windows phone user is to ditch it for an iPhone.
Yes, a lot of people are using their iPhones as iPods today, but they are also using their iPods as iPods for activities where they don't want the phone but they do want their music, a trend which I think has had a lot to do with the direction the iPod device (non-Touch) lineup has evolved -- simple, clip-on devices that don't interfere with activities.
Would make a lot of people I know happy if T-Mo were to pick up the 3GS and offer it pre-paid as well as contract.
That change alone would move plenty of 3GSes.
Oooooohhhhhh!
.
In this particular case, you need to dissociate the hardware (Zune player) from the software (a place to buy movies etc). The player is not popular, but that is not relevant for a WP7 phone.
The important aspect is a place for purchasing and viewing/listening to entertainment content.
In the sense that the Marketplace has the same content as iTunes, then yes, it is pretty equivalent in as an ecosystem for buying music and movies.
Contrast this with Android, where you currently have to go somewhere else (e.g., Amazon) to buy music. With the WP7, for better or worse, you stay in the MS environment, as you do with Apple and iTunes. In both cases, you have a consistent experience.
Does MS still have the indirect payment method-- where you buy digital tokens, or some such (in fixed amounts)-- than pay for purchase with the tokens? In other words, MS is always working with your money. When first presented, I thought that was kind of weird-- like buying yourself a gift certificate.
Maybe MS was trying to minimize the cost of CC transactions...
Apple does this by not immediately charging individual transactions (we are working on Apples money) in hopes the user will make other purchases that can be combined into a single CC transaction!
.
Does anybody know what Sprint uses?
If they use 1700MHz, then you could use Virgin Mobile's $25/ month plan and get unlimited text, web, etc. Virgin Mobile uses the Sprint network.
Anybody know?
Sprint uses CDMA, like Verizon, so they are out of this conversation altogether. Since Virgin Mobile uses Sprint, they are also CDMA. To add to that, the phone would have to be specifically designated as pre-paid in the system in order for it to activate for Virgin Mobile. In other words, Sprint would enter in your phone's IMEI (ID #) and see in their system if it is qualified for pre-paid or not. I can almost guarantee it wouldn't be, but you never know. Nevertheless, like a Verizon iPhone, a CDMA version would have to be built for this to be relevant at all anyway.
Unlikely, since people aren't going to want to give up the compatibility with the whole iTunes ecosystem, their app investment, etc. Google discourages paid apps to increase add opportunities, but the (other) negative side-effect for them is that Android users won't feel like they have to give up much, if any, investment to switch, whereas iPhone users will.
EDIT: Although, why anyone would lend any credence to a rumor from ("The internet is dead!") Wired...
who says?
my wife just upgraded from a 3G to a 4. the 3G went to our son with kids games on it and it's an ipod touch now. if i go to an android phone next year i can still use my 3GS as an iPod Touch and all the apps on it. anything requiring 3G will be on the new android phone out of the box
except for games the two platforms are about 90% the same. in some cases android versions of apps get cool new features first
who says?
my wife just upgraded from a 3G to a 4. the 3G went to our son with kids games on it and it's an ipod touch now. if i go to an android phone next year i can still use my 3GS as an iPod Touch and all the apps on it. anything requiring 3G will be on the new android phone out of the box
Sure, at the disadvantage of having to carry 2 devices around with you, and remember which one it is you need to perform any specific task. Yeah, some people do this, particularly Blackberry users, with an iPod touch + smartphone now, but it's hardly an elegant solution. One assumes you want a smartphone to improve your life, not to take it over. What's next, bag o' smartphones that you rummage through till you find the one with the right app?
Although, I think your comment that, "anything requiring 3G will be on the new android phone out of the box," is a bit over optimistic, unless you ignore the fact that you won't always have WiFi. An iPod touch is not an iPhone without calls.
Regarding Virgin Mobile USA, they were recently bought by Sprint. Virgin Mobile USA is now just a "name" for one of Sprint's services, primarily geared to the non-contract buy your own cheap phone customer. So if Sprint gets a CDMA iPhone, it will ultimately be up to them to decide if non-contract iPhones will be sold and used under their Virgin Mobile USA banner.
In the sense that the Marketplace has the same content as iTunes, then yes, it is pretty equivalent in as an ecosystem for buying music and movies
Unless you are using a Mac.
Not that it matters but iTunes is available for Windows so why isn't Zune Store and player available for Macs? Must be the extremely low market share, right?
Unless you are using a Mac.
Not that it matters but iTunes is available for Windows so why isn't Zune Store and player available for Macs? Must be the extremely low market share, right?
I agree, there is no real reason for a Mac user to get a WP7, that is not going to happen. My point was though, if you are a Windows user, there is the potential for the seamless integration on Windows that iPhone users have on the Mac.
I have no idea why MS did not write Zune software for the Mac.
I'd still hop on that with T-Mobile. They still need to optimize the iOS further than they have with 4.1 though. It still looks slow in some cases as seen on many blogs.
Nah, don't know what people are complaining about, iPhone 3GS on iOS 4 is really quite acceptable, IMO. It's the iPhone 3G that really struggles.
However, I read somewhere that T-Mobile has a smaller 3G footprint and is slower since it does not support HSDPA (7.2MB)....unlike AT&T. The 3GS would not be able to utilize this higher speed service on T-Mobile.
Well, about 2mbps is fast enough for a "simpler" iPhone. Again, Apple's probably testing the 1700MHz waters and in the labs refining their CDMA engineering. Imagine if a big iPhone 5 Verizon rollout had antenna "issues"...!
Absolutely. This could be a work-around for the at&t exclusivity agreement. It also means the end of agreement is probably near. Even though I'm an at&t employee I can't wait to see the end. Then we'll finally know if Android is all it's cracked up to be. We'll also know if some of the reported problems are network or device related. iPhone users apparently gobble a lot more bandwidth than other device users. When the iPhone is finally available on all the major U.S. carriers it will confirm or finally lay to rest all the FUD that's been spread around thickly for the last three years.
Or maybe not. FUD has a life of its own.
Isn't Apple's R&D strategy wonderful? Profitable market testing of a CDMA phone and a clear shot across the bow of AT&T signalling, THE END OF ALL THINGS (EXCLUSIVE).
My gut instinct though is that this is too small of a deal for Apple to get involved in. It's iPhone 5 CDMA version alongside iPhone 5 (probably with 1700mhz??) or bust.
I do not understand the argument. Any smartphone purchase would replace the iPod.
1. A smartphone would replace the iPod - I gave my daughter my touch when I got my iPhone - precisely to simplify my life so I did not have to carry multiple devices.
So if someone buys a WP7 their music library transfers to the Zune software to manage the library. I assume the same is true for a lot of Android users, it is at least the case for the Android users I know. The only issue, as I said before, are the apps. But in terms of music, not so much.
2. How does the iTunes/iPod ecosystem work better for an Android phone or even a Windows phone?
If you own an iPhone, that is certainly the case. Again, for the Android users I know, they do not use an iPod anymore, and moved to some Android music player.
Many people (especially younger demographics like myself) are introduced to MP3 players like the iPod before they are introduced to smartphones, since smartphones cost A LOT more than iPods and comparable devices. For anyone with an iPod, that generally means they'll build up a library in iTunes before they buy their first smartphone
Once you have that iTunes library built up (even if it's only in the 2-4 GB range), it takes a tremendous amount of work to transfer it to another ecosystem. This was particularly true back in the days of iTunes FairPlay (happily, those days are over)
For me (I own an Android device and a 32GB Touch I got on the cheap with my notebook for college), it wasn't worth the effort to get my relatively large 42 GB iTunes library onto my Android device, especially because 32GB is the maximum available size of a microSD card. I'd much rather pay $100 for an excellent iPod Touch that integrates perfectly with my existing library and has substantially better battery performance than my Android (seriously, the Touch basically uses no power when it's not playing music! It lasts freaking forever)
And the two of them stacked are about 2cm thick (e.g. much thinner than my wallet), so they've been able to fit together even in the tightest pants I have
Obviously, I can't speak for the market at large, so I might just be a huge anomaly
As for a hypothetical T-Mobile iPhone, I always expected T-Mobile to be the first carrier to get the iPhone in the US after AT&T. As far as I know, all Apple needs to do is purchase a bunch of UMTS/HSPA chipsets that work on T-Mobile's frequencies, and the iPhone is 3G ready for T-Mobile.
I'm hardly a mobile phone engineer, but I would presume that more work would be needed to get the iPhone running on Verizon or Sprint (although I'd be hardly surprised if Apple had been building CDMA2000 1xRTT/EV-DO iPhones internally, much as they did with x86 builds of OS X).