Then don't make that decision for me as well...lets just stick to the subject and leave the personalities and people out of it....too many times these dicussions turn to a personal nature and I hate that.....
Well, many people who claim to be savvy have an entirely distorted, one-dimensional view of the world, as well as a very superficial understanding of that which they claim to be savvy about. It's a fact. So, an appeal to the tech savvy to support an assertion, is not strong support for that assertion. If you don't want their credibility questioned, don't attempt to use it to support your arguments, and don't pretend to tell me how to criticize those arguments.
But not surprising. Here's a question: How much cash flow does Google generate from Android? (It's not a trick question).
I see where you're going with that, but advertisement and information are the revenue source, and it is going to be hard to qualify just how much this is making Google unless Google spells it out. Android users are Google's product far more so than the OS is.
I see lots of people with iPhone's but I can honestly say I haven't seen a single person with an Android phone. Maybe they are all hiding them. Somebody must be shifting lots of them.
Honestly have you seen the Android Marketplace? It looks so amateurish compared to the AppStore it's unbelievable.
Thats most likely because you dont know what android phones look like.
Either that or you dont go out much.
The HTC desire,sony xperia and samsung galaxy are pretty all android phones.
I really wanted to get an iphone 4 (I know, me of all people) but AT&T's 2GB datacap really turned me off. I've had my android for just under a week now and I've already gotten past 1GB of usage. I mean, imagine how much it would cost me for the iphone 4 which is just as data intensive as Android.
AT&T is what is holding the iPhone back. NONE OF YOU CAN ARGUE WITH THAT.
I do like this Galaxy S though. It takes good pictures and excellent video, it's quick, and it does everything I want. Well, maybe not everything. That video editing on the iphone is nice.
As soon as iphone is back with a company in the US with unlimited data, I think I'm getting one.
Thats most likely because you dont know what android phones look like.
Either that or you dont go out much.
The HTC desire,sony xperia and samsung galaxy are pretty all android phones.
And they're pretty popular in the UK
I see a lot of Droid phones out here myself (mostly because Verizon is way better here than AT&T). Nowhere near as many as I see iPhones, but that's a good point. People probably see more Android phones than they think because Android can appear in all manner of relatively normal-looking smartphones. It might be in a fairly sleek-looking EVO, or that crappy POS plastic keyboard phone.
The Android market is trash, though. There are some gems, but the sheer volume of trash applications is mind-boggling. I thought the App Store was bad...
I really wanted to get an iphone 4 (I know, me of all people) but AT&T's 2GB datacap really turned me off. I've had my android for just under a week now and I've already gotten past 1GB of usage. I mean, imagine how much it would cost me for the iphone 4 which is just as data intensive as Android.
AT&T is what is holding the iPhone back. NONE OF YOU CAN ARGUE WITH THAT.
At this point I'd agree with you about AT&T. People overlook a lot of good that the agreement Apple had with them through the starting days did for the iPhone, though. Apple needed a lot of leverage to make this happen and AT&T made that possible (even if they kept urinating along the trail as Apple pulled them along, kicking and screaming).
Today, though, you can probably expect Verizon and AT&T to eventually sync with data. Verizon isn't going to keep offering it for free if their network feels the hurt. Smaller companies like Sprint and T-Mobile may but that's because they don't have to deal with the same network stress. In any case, it is sad, because the right solution would be to heavily invest in the idea of unlimited data—a long term strategy. I acknowledge the possibility that they may be doing just this, and simply have to deal with short-term limitations, but I don't know. I tend to come in on the negative side when guessing the motives of wireless mobile companies.
Well, sure, Apple could rush out the gate with a very different iPhone for Verizon, but it makes sense to wait until they can release a universally compatible device.
Exactly, knowing how dedicated Apple is to a consistent user experience and knowing how different both carrier's networks are, Apple would more than likely end up with a iPhone for Verizon that didn't perform in the exact same manner as the ATT version and that, in Apple's eye, is a no-no.
i.e. ATT you can access data and voice at the same time, Verizon you can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande
In any case, Android is rising because it is a successful OEM product which is appearing on all manner of fine and crappy devices. Any decline in marketshare for Apple at this point is not because Apple is losing sales, but rather because Android is selling more.
I personally feel Andriod is surging because of their 100% subsidized pricing on most of their phones. Just imagine is ATT offered free iPhones with a contract...
IPHONE Multi-carrier availability is coming sooner than we think and this should boost IPHONE IOS rankings and put it on a more even playing field with Android.
Many people are more loyal to their carriers than we think, others do not want to go through the hassle of changing carriers just for a particular phone. Lastly some companies offer a big discount but only at one carrier which keeps the persaon at that carrier.
Something that cannot be emphasized too much. Apple is essentially a creative company, Google a destructive company. Apple creates revolutionary devices and paradigms, while Google copies and attempts to succeed by undermining competitors, rather than the strength of it's own efforts. Google are like the barbarians at the gates, unable to create their own rich civilization, their only goal is to plunder that of others.
i cannot disagree more. apple has a LONG history of stealing ideas from, or purchasing creative companies, just as google does:
MacOS Graphical User Interface? STOLEN from Xerox PARC, then Apple cries that Windows is a ripoff.
iTunes? look up Soundjam. Multitouch? Synaptics. A4 Chip? PA Semi, and now Intrinsity.
there are dozens more.
undermining competitors? ever hear of Adobe? Kindle? Qik? Boxee? Amazon?
we're locked into iTunes. can't sync any apple portable without it. and don't you dare use Cydia.
it is a walled garden, and while i'm happy being part of the 5% within those walls, i see the thorns on the roses, and i don't believe the BS that's spewed about the companies on the other side is any different than what's happening in Cupertino.
LOL. Funny, but my bud (quoted) is an app developer for iPhone and an IT network admin using Macs/iPhones, so he's definitely not clueless.
Go into a store, check out an Incredible or a Droid X or a Droid 2 or a Samsung Galaxy S, and you'll see what customization is all about. That's one thing I really like about Android--my phone's UI looks completely different from anybody else's while iPhone's UIs all look alike--kinda like clones.
Dude, it's OK to accept that iPhone has set the standard by which all other phones have been measured. But now it's also OK to accept the fact that it's now been surpassed by Android.
Funny, as an android dev my opinion is the opposite. My iPhone4 is much better than my HTC Incredible IMO.
I agree. Apple's strategy is based on monopoly and early lead, the same strategy used 25 years ago for the Mac. Windows 95 crushed Apple once and Android is poised to do the same in the smartphone market. Alas.
At best, Apple's strategy can only lead to an early success followed by a downfall to a 5% world market share. Some people never learn. Greed and supersized egos. Alas.
\\\
"Monopoly"? You must mean "integrated hardware/software platform" I don't know that Apple's strategy of "integrated hardware/software platform" is based on "greed and super sized egos" any more than it makes sense to say that for Palm, Nokia, RIM, for even successful integrated platforms like Nintendo Wii, Microsoft Xbox or Sony Playstation.
I personally feel Andriod is surging because of their 100% subsidized pricing on most of their phones. Just imagine is ATT offered free iPhones with a contract...
I imagine that plays into it to. And also, the 'open' aspect of Android people seem to dislike talking about: the carriers are free to screw up the Android experience in any way they wish. It is quite carrier-frieldly. I do think it is shortsighted for carriers to overlook the potential of their own high-quality platform, though. People laugh at RIM, but their position in this market isn't exactly laughable. Nokia is the one that falls into that position.
Not sure why but these news makes me happy. I really loved the first iPhone because no one had it, and I felt like I had a phone from the future. Now everyone and their grand-ma have an iPhone.
Android can be number one if you ask me. Being number one is not in Apple's DNA.
They are just vastly easier to use! They don't "hide all the options" - you obviously don't know what you are talking about
I like all of the variations of SMS tone. My favorite part is when I'm in a meeting and that familiar tone goes off and 10 people reach for their phones...
i cannot disagree more. apple has a LONG history of stealing ideas from, or purchasing creative companies, just as google does:
MacOS Graphical User Interface? STOLEN from Xerox PARC, then Apple cries that Windows is a ripoff.
iTunes? look up Soundjam. Multitouch? Synaptics. A4 Chip? PA Semi, and now Intrinsity.
there are dozens more.
undermining competitors? ever hear of Adobe? Kindle? Qik? Boxee? Amazon?
we're locked into iTunes. can't sync any apple portable without it. and don't you dare use Cydia.
it is a walled garden, and while i'm happy being part of the 5% within those walls, i see the thorns on the roses, and i don't believe the BS that's spewed about the companies on the other side is any different than what's happening in Cupertino.
Myth. Steve gave Xerox some phat Apple stock options for access to PARC. Also, Apple created certain UI concepts such as the trash can, menubar, that Windows cloned, and that is what Apple sued over. But these facts are usually forgotten in the mad rush to post something negative about Apple. You are forgiven
googles not pushing adds to anyones phone right now. So thats nothing more then a rumor... and we now how rumors are around here... so ... and um my device is very functional? and my battery lasts longer then my fathers iphone 4. so many fan boys here that dont know anything...
Google is a cool company, but the only reason they have released Android is to make money on it. If they are not charging smart phone manufacturers for Android, they will have to use some other method to make money on it. The only method that Google uses to make money is to sell advertisement.
If Google chooses not to sell advertisement via Android-powered smart phones, they will either have to start charging smart phone manufacturers or the Android project will be dropped just like Google has dropped hundreds of other projects that they started. I once interviewed for Google, and I was told by their folks that most of their projects are in beta for years, and they never get out of beta. Android got out of beta, but without a profit-generating model, it will fizzle out. Enough said.
Comments
Then don't make that decision for me as well...lets just stick to the subject and leave the personalities and people out of it....too many times these dicussions turn to a personal nature and I hate that.....
Well, many people who claim to be savvy have an entirely distorted, one-dimensional view of the world, as well as a very superficial understanding of that which they claim to be savvy about. It's a fact. So, an appeal to the tech savvy to support an assertion, is not strong support for that assertion. If you don't want their credibility questioned, don't attempt to use it to support your arguments, and don't pretend to tell me how to criticize those arguments.
But not surprising. Here's a question: How much cash flow does Google generate from Android? (It's not a trick question).
I see where you're going with that, but advertisement and information are the revenue source, and it is going to be hard to qualify just how much this is making Google unless Google spells it out. Android users are Google's product far more so than the OS is.
I see lots of people with iPhone's but I can honestly say I haven't seen a single person with an Android phone. Maybe they are all hiding them. Somebody must be shifting lots of them.
Honestly have you seen the Android Marketplace? It looks so amateurish compared to the AppStore it's unbelievable.
Thats most likely because you dont know what android phones look like.
Either that or you dont go out much.
The HTC desire,sony xperia and samsung galaxy are pretty all android phones.
And they're pretty popular in the UK
Ha Ha! Yesterday it was with the likes of Giordano Bruno.
Well, that was mainly a reference to heretics burned at the stake. Context matters.
I really wanted to get an iphone 4 (I know, me of all people) but AT&T's 2GB datacap really turned me off. I've had my android for just under a week now and I've already gotten past 1GB of usage. I mean, imagine how much it would cost me for the iphone 4 which is just as data intensive as Android.
AT&T is what is holding the iPhone back. NONE OF YOU CAN ARGUE WITH THAT.
I do like this Galaxy S though. It takes good pictures and excellent video, it's quick, and it does everything I want. Well, maybe not everything. That video editing on the iphone is nice.
As soon as iphone is back with a company in the US with unlimited data, I think I'm getting one.
Thats most likely because you dont know what android phones look like.
Either that or you dont go out much.
The HTC desire,sony xperia and samsung galaxy are pretty all android phones.
And they're pretty popular in the UK
I see a lot of Droid phones out here myself (mostly because Verizon is way better here than AT&T). Nowhere near as many as I see iPhones, but that's a good point. People probably see more Android phones than they think because Android can appear in all manner of relatively normal-looking smartphones. It might be in a fairly sleek-looking EVO, or that crappy POS plastic keyboard phone.
The Android market is trash, though. There are some gems, but the sheer volume of trash applications is mind-boggling. I thought the App Store was bad...
I really wanted to get an iphone 4 (I know, me of all people) but AT&T's 2GB datacap really turned me off. I've had my android for just under a week now and I've already gotten past 1GB of usage. I mean, imagine how much it would cost me for the iphone 4 which is just as data intensive as Android.
AT&T is what is holding the iPhone back. NONE OF YOU CAN ARGUE WITH THAT.
At this point I'd agree with you about AT&T. People overlook a lot of good that the agreement Apple had with them through the starting days did for the iPhone, though. Apple needed a lot of leverage to make this happen and AT&T made that possible (even if they kept urinating along the trail as Apple pulled them along, kicking and screaming).
Today, though, you can probably expect Verizon and AT&T to eventually sync with data. Verizon isn't going to keep offering it for free if their network feels the hurt. Smaller companies like Sprint and T-Mobile may but that's because they don't have to deal with the same network stress. In any case, it is sad, because the right solution would be to heavily invest in the idea of unlimited data—a long term strategy. I acknowledge the possibility that they may be doing just this, and simply have to deal with short-term limitations, but I don't know. I tend to come in on the negative side when guessing the motives of wireless mobile companies.
Well, sure, Apple could rush out the gate with a very different iPhone for Verizon, but it makes sense to wait until they can release a universally compatible device.
Exactly, knowing how dedicated Apple is to a consistent user experience and knowing how different both carrier's networks are, Apple would more than likely end up with a iPhone for Verizon that didn't perform in the exact same manner as the ATT version and that, in Apple's eye, is a no-no.
i.e. ATT you can access data and voice at the same time, Verizon you can't.
In any case, Android is rising because it is a successful OEM product which is appearing on all manner of fine and crappy devices. Any decline in marketshare for Apple at this point is not because Apple is losing sales, but rather because Android is selling more.
I personally feel Andriod is surging because of their 100% subsidized pricing on most of their phones. Just imagine is ATT offered free iPhones with a contract...
Many people are more loyal to their carriers than we think, others do not want to go through the hassle of changing carriers just for a particular phone. Lastly some companies offer a big discount but only at one carrier which keeps the persaon at that carrier.
Google's revenue from android = ZERO
Something that cannot be emphasized too much. Apple is essentially a creative company, Google a destructive company. Apple creates revolutionary devices and paradigms, while Google copies and attempts to succeed by undermining competitors, rather than the strength of it's own efforts. Google are like the barbarians at the gates, unable to create their own rich civilization, their only goal is to plunder that of others.
i cannot disagree more. apple has a LONG history of stealing ideas from, or purchasing creative companies, just as google does:
MacOS Graphical User Interface? STOLEN from Xerox PARC, then Apple cries that Windows is a ripoff.
iTunes? look up Soundjam. Multitouch? Synaptics. A4 Chip? PA Semi, and now Intrinsity.
there are dozens more.
undermining competitors? ever hear of Adobe? Kindle? Qik? Boxee? Amazon?
we're locked into iTunes. can't sync any apple portable without it. and don't you dare use Cydia.
it is a walled garden, and while i'm happy being part of the 5% within those walls, i see the thorns on the roses, and i don't believe the BS that's spewed about the companies on the other side is any different than what's happening in Cupertino.
LOL. Funny, but my bud (quoted) is an app developer for iPhone and an IT network admin using Macs/iPhones, so he's definitely not clueless.
Go into a store, check out an Incredible or a Droid X or a Droid 2 or a Samsung Galaxy S, and you'll see what customization is all about. That's one thing I really like about Android--my phone's UI looks completely different from anybody else's while iPhone's UIs all look alike--kinda like clones.
Dude, it's OK to accept that iPhone has set the standard by which all other phones have been measured. But now it's also OK to accept the fact that it's now been surpassed by Android.
Funny, as an android dev my opinion is the opposite. My iPhone4 is much better than my HTC Incredible IMO.
I agree. Apple's strategy is based on monopoly and early lead, the same strategy used 25 years ago for the Mac. Windows 95 crushed Apple once and Android is poised to do the same in the smartphone market. Alas.
At best, Apple's strategy can only lead to an early success followed by a downfall to a 5% world market share. Some people never learn. Greed and supersized egos. Alas.
"Monopoly"? You must mean "integrated hardware/software platform"
I personally feel Andriod is surging because of their 100% subsidized pricing on most of their phones. Just imagine is ATT offered free iPhones with a contract...
I imagine that plays into it to. And also, the 'open' aspect of Android people seem to dislike talking about: the carriers are free to screw up the Android experience in any way they wish. It is quite carrier-frieldly. I do think it is shortsighted for carriers to overlook the potential of their own high-quality platform, though. People laugh at RIM, but their position in this market isn't exactly laughable. Nokia is the one that falls into that position.
android US market share = 17%
Google's revenue from android = ZERO
Google didn't jump into this market as a courtesy.
They absolutely are making money; they are securing their industry.
When they aren't making money is when Verizon locks customers in with Bing.
Android can be number one if you ask me. Being number one is not in Apple's DNA.
I had to borrow a friends android phone while camping. My iPhone had no signal, and his had a weak one.
You're holding it wrong!
They are just vastly easier to use! They don't "hide all the options" - you obviously don't know what you are talking about
I like all of the variations of SMS tone. My favorite part is when I'm in a meeting and that familiar tone goes off and 10 people reach for their phones...
i cannot disagree more. apple has a LONG history of stealing ideas from, or purchasing creative companies, just as google does:
MacOS Graphical User Interface? STOLEN from Xerox PARC, then Apple cries that Windows is a ripoff.
iTunes? look up Soundjam. Multitouch? Synaptics. A4 Chip? PA Semi, and now Intrinsity.
there are dozens more.
undermining competitors? ever hear of Adobe? Kindle? Qik? Boxee? Amazon?
we're locked into iTunes. can't sync any apple portable without it. and don't you dare use Cydia.
it is a walled garden, and while i'm happy being part of the 5% within those walls, i see the thorns on the roses, and i don't believe the BS that's spewed about the companies on the other side is any different than what's happening in Cupertino.
Myth. Steve gave Xerox some phat Apple stock options for access to PARC. Also, Apple created certain UI concepts such as the trash can, menubar, that Windows cloned, and that is what Apple sued over. But these facts are usually forgotten in the mad rush to post something negative about Apple. You are forgiven
googles not pushing adds to anyones phone right now. So thats nothing more then a rumor... and we now how rumors are around here... so ... and um my device is very functional? and my battery lasts longer then my fathers iphone 4. so many fan boys here that dont know anything...
Google is a cool company, but the only reason they have released Android is to make money on it. If they are not charging smart phone manufacturers for Android, they will have to use some other method to make money on it. The only method that Google uses to make money is to sell advertisement.
If Google chooses not to sell advertisement via Android-powered smart phones, they will either have to start charging smart phone manufacturers or the Android project will be dropped just like Google has dropped hundreds of other projects that they started. I once interviewed for Google, and I was told by their folks that most of their projects are in beta for years, and they never get out of beta. Android got out of beta, but without a profit-generating model, it will fizzle out. Enough said.