Appearance of large number of refurb units (as opposed to a few that quickly disappear) is an indication of the beginning of inventory clearance for a model that is likely to be discontinued (i.e. replaced with a new model) in the near future...
Sometimes, but not as a rule. It seems to be more dependent on the number of returns they get. Apple has been known to continue selling refurbished discontinued models for many months after the newer model appears. Often you'll see both a current and a past model being sold side-by-side as refurbs.
I don't think I've ever seen a bunch of people who are so afraid of another opinion.
Anyone would be suspicious of someone who spends so much time reading and commenting on something they dislike. Your motives are suspect, and your message boorish, contemptible, repetitive, and frankly, quite immature. In reality, you add nothing of real value to the discussion, having lost all semblance of objectivity. If you really dislike Apple products, and this forum, so much, why do you insist on being here? You most definitely protest too much!
Anyone would be suspicious of someone who spends so much time reading and commenting on something they dislike. Your motives are suspect, and your message boorish, contemptuos, repetitive, and frankly, quite immature.
I'm not really sure that this has any bearing on whether, "Apple is now producing enough iPads to meet demand". It's not like they could have been selling these as "new" before.
It is certainly a component as to what is going on! Think about from the manufacturing standpoint. If you have all of your resources dedicated to increasing manufacturing output, returns will just be stacked up somewhere to wait for the technicians to be freed up. So this isn't amisplaced statement at all.
However it isn't likely to be the only factor. From what I can see returns have been rather low. While the thread has been biased against this idea, one of the few reasons given for a return is the lack of flash. i suspect that many of these returns are of the hardly used type.
Quote:
It sounds more like it just took them a while to start doing this. I just don't see what logic leads to the conclusion that this has anything to do with production and demand levels.
If you have never worked in a manufacturing plant doing a new launch then you really wouldn't understand the issues. It is certainly a component, as is having enough stock to start selling refurbs. In the end refurbs are taken care of after production demands are meet.
The $50 dollars off isn't that bad either, considering what Apple might have to put into them to get them ready for sale again.
Anyone would be suspicious of someone who spends so much time reading and commenting on something they dislike. Your motives are suspect, and your message boorish, contemptible, repetitive, and frankly, quite immature.
So really if the guys comments reflect reality then why all the half a$$ responses. It is certainly a sign of immaturity if you can't accept comments on reality.
So really if the guys comments reflect reality then why all the half a$$ responses. It is certainly a sign of immaturity if you can't accept comments on reality.
No one said reality was to be banned from the discussion.....not at all, and not my point at all.
There is a level of social decorum that should be respected, and that has been ignored and disrespected here.
It is kind of like going to a Giants game, and sitting in a section devoted to fans, where everyone is wearing orange and black, and talking up their team, cheering for the team, and making positive and negative observations on player, team, and manager performance. Then someone sits down right in the middle of the section, and first makes a comment that Pablo Sandovol is hitting like a first grader, and the manager (Bruce Bochy) should do things differently - at first, these comments are absorbed and discussed, and, most likely, you will get both agreement, and disagreement, and maybe some suggestions for improvement - all sociable and welcome discussion, even though the person does not wear a Giants hat for sure.
Then that same person starts yelling that Sandovol and Bochy suck, and that the Giants suck, so he has crossed the line, and starts getting much deserved attitude from the rightly insulted fans. They recognize that this is not the fun razzing that goes on between Giants and Dodgers fans, where everyone is having a laugh as they boo the other's players - this is different, and is not appreciated.
Hey, - a suggestion on improving Apple products, or an observation of competitors' products, is certainly appreciated, and is usually recognized as accurate, or at least, is challenged in rationale discourse. But when the issues are well known, and are repeated, AD NAUSEUM, the messenger has crossed the line, and should go sit in the other team's section - because we want to enjoy the game (primarily), and we discuss amongst ourselves the issues just fine without someone shouting obscenities our way.
YES - we KNOW: (no flash, no USB's, too heavy, antenna issues, not the same camera, a hobby, Job's insensitivity in the face of brilliance, etc, etc.). Repeating (no shouting) them will only make the listener reject the messenger as having ulterior motives, or has some real antisocial issues to resolve, and really just needs to get a life.
Took them long enough. A device that has sold well, is meant to be hand-held, has some heft to it, and a big glass panel? Apple must have a ton of damaged iPads it can refurbish.
It doesn't fit with Apple's usual 15% off on refurbs, though- that would put the price around $425 to start. Probably an indication of just how well it is selling (or how much it costs to refurbish them).
And yet you post this response, when there is a very good possibility that many of the returns are made for this reason. So who is the pain here?
Dave
Why? When most people would have already known the anti flash stance apple has taken. I think It's more likely there in store units with new exterior cases.
I disagree, for I think you've swapped cause and effect. I think Apple withheld the refurbs an extra while to be sure they did not adversely affect new iPad sales. Now that iPads are no longer backordered, Apple could safely assume that everyone willing to pay a premium and wait for one now has one. Remaining sales will be the more casual buyer browsing in the store who won't be looking for a refurb. online but instead making an in-person impulse buy.
No, actually, I've said there's nothing here to indicate cause and effect. And, your scenario makes even less sense; if it were correct, based on your logic, sales of new iPads will now drop to zero, which isn't going to happen.
Clearly, the only thing this says is that there haven't been a lot of returns, that it is only now they have enough to sell refurbs, but it indicates absolutely nothing about production and demand.
And yet you post this response, when there is a very good possibility that many of the returns are made for this reason. So who is the pain here?
Dave
Utter nonsense. There is absolutely no reason to think the few returns they apparently have have anything at all to do with the absence of Flash. If you have some evidence otherwise, present it. Until then, we'll file it under wishful thinking in fantasy land.
So really if the guys comments reflect reality then why all the half a$$ responses. It is certainly a sign of immaturity if you can't accept comments on reality.
Seriously, you're here defending the blatant troll Blackintosh? Well, I guess there's no question about why you're here.
What is the legality of selling a return item as new, vs refurbished, and what is the exact definition of refurbished (is it industry specific, or is it governed by law?).
If it's been opened, it's illegal to advertise and sell it as new, hence refurbished. Some stores call it "open box" if nothing has been done to it. And since nobody will pay full price for an item that's not new, a discount is warranted.
The definition depends on the company and even on the product. Apple says these iPads have new batteries and new enclosures. Refurbished Apple computers, however, don't get new enclosures. They're just checked for function via diagnostics and appearance blemishes then the hard drive is wiped and OS reinstalled. Then there's the distinction between factory refurbished, dealer reconditioned, etc. There are just too many variables. Always read the fine print.
I would have expected more than $50.00 of for a refurbished unit. Maybe for a "B" stock the price level is acceptable, but for a refurb it should be at least $100.00 less than new.
I would have expected more than $50.00 of for a refurbished unit. Maybe for a "B" stock the price level is acceptable, but for a refurb it should be at least $100.00 less than new.
Most of the refurbs of current models Apple sells are 15% off the regular price, give or take. They are fully covered by the as-new warranty.
Comments
Appearance of large number of refurb units (as opposed to a few that quickly disappear) is an indication of the beginning of inventory clearance for a model that is likely to be discontinued (i.e. replaced with a new model) in the near future...
Sometimes, but not as a rule. It seems to be more dependent on the number of returns they get. Apple has been known to continue selling refurbished discontinued models for many months after the newer model appears. Often you'll see both a current and a past model being sold side-by-side as refurbs.
Hope they have lifted the 2 / lifetime restriction, $50 isn't bad, still not sure if it is worth it without USB and HDMI...
The addition of AirPlay makes it unlikely iPads will ever have HDMI.
And yet you still post..
And yet you post this response, when there is a very good possibility that many of the returns are made for this reason. So who is the pain here?
Dave
I don't think I've ever seen a bunch of people who are so afraid of another opinion.
Anyone would be suspicious of someone who spends so much time reading and commenting on something they dislike. Your motives are suspect, and your message boorish, contemptible, repetitive, and frankly, quite immature. In reality, you add nothing of real value to the discussion, having lost all semblance of objectivity. If you really dislike Apple products, and this forum, so much, why do you insist on being here? You most definitely protest too much!
Anyone would be suspicious of someone who spends so much time reading and commenting on something they dislike. Your motives are suspect, and your message boorish, contemptuos, repetitive, and frankly, quite immature.
But other than that, you like them?
I'm not really sure that this has any bearing on whether, "Apple is now producing enough iPads to meet demand". It's not like they could have been selling these as "new" before.
It is certainly a component as to what is going on! Think about from the manufacturing standpoint. If you have all of your resources dedicated to increasing manufacturing output, returns will just be stacked up somewhere to wait for the technicians to be freed up. So this isn't amisplaced statement at all.
However it isn't likely to be the only factor. From what I can see returns have been rather low. While the thread has been biased against this idea, one of the few reasons given for a return is the lack of flash. i suspect that many of these returns are of the hardly used type.
It sounds more like it just took them a while to start doing this. I just don't see what logic leads to the conclusion that this has anything to do with production and demand levels.
If you have never worked in a manufacturing plant doing a new launch then you really wouldn't understand the issues. It is certainly a component, as is having enough stock to start selling refurbs. In the end refurbs are taken care of after production demands are meet.
The $50 dollars off isn't that bad either, considering what Apple might have to put into them to get them ready for sale again.
Anyone would be suspicious of someone who spends so much time reading and commenting on something they dislike. Your motives are suspect, and your message boorish, contemptible, repetitive, and frankly, quite immature.
So really if the guys comments reflect reality then why all the half a$$ responses. It is certainly a sign of immaturity if you can't accept comments on reality.
So really if the guys comments reflect reality then why all the half a$$ responses. It is certainly a sign of immaturity if you can't accept comments on reality.
No one said reality was to be banned from the discussion.....not at all, and not my point at all.
There is a level of social decorum that should be respected, and that has been ignored and disrespected here.
It is kind of like going to a Giants game, and sitting in a section devoted to fans, where everyone is wearing orange and black, and talking up their team, cheering for the team, and making positive and negative observations on player, team, and manager performance. Then someone sits down right in the middle of the section, and first makes a comment that Pablo Sandovol is hitting like a first grader, and the manager (Bruce Bochy) should do things differently - at first, these comments are absorbed and discussed, and, most likely, you will get both agreement, and disagreement, and maybe some suggestions for improvement - all sociable and welcome discussion, even though the person does not wear a Giants hat for sure.
Then that same person starts yelling that Sandovol and Bochy suck, and that the Giants suck, so he has crossed the line, and starts getting much deserved attitude from the rightly insulted fans. They recognize that this is not the fun razzing that goes on between Giants and Dodgers fans, where everyone is having a laugh as they boo the other's players - this is different, and is not appreciated.
Hey, - a suggestion on improving Apple products, or an observation of competitors' products, is certainly appreciated, and is usually recognized as accurate, or at least, is challenged in rationale discourse. But when the issues are well known, and are repeated, AD NAUSEUM, the messenger has crossed the line, and should go sit in the other team's section - because we want to enjoy the game (primarily), and we discuss amongst ourselves the issues just fine without someone shouting obscenities our way.
YES - we KNOW: (no flash, no USB's, too heavy, antenna issues, not the same camera, a hobby, Job's insensitivity in the face of brilliance, etc, etc.). Repeating (no shouting) them will only make the listener reject the messenger as having ulterior motives, or has some real antisocial issues to resolve, and really just needs to get a life.
It doesn't fit with Apple's usual 15% off on refurbs, though- that would put the price around $425 to start. Probably an indication of just how well it is selling (or how much it costs to refurbish them).
And yet you post this response, when there is a very good possibility that many of the returns are made for this reason. So who is the pain here?
Dave
Why? When most people would have already known the anti flash stance apple has taken. I think It's more likely there in store units with new exterior cases.
I disagree, for I think you've swapped cause and effect. I think Apple withheld the refurbs an extra while to be sure they did not adversely affect new iPad sales. Now that iPads are no longer backordered, Apple could safely assume that everyone willing to pay a premium and wait for one now has one. Remaining sales will be the more casual buyer browsing in the store who won't be looking for a refurb. online but instead making an in-person impulse buy.
No, actually, I've said there's nothing here to indicate cause and effect. And, your scenario makes even less sense; if it were correct, based on your logic, sales of new iPads will now drop to zero, which isn't going to happen.
Clearly, the only thing this says is that there haven't been a lot of returns, that it is only now they have enough to sell refurbs, but it indicates absolutely nothing about production and demand.
And yet you post this response, when there is a very good possibility that many of the returns are made for this reason. So who is the pain here?
Dave
Utter nonsense. There is absolutely no reason to think the few returns they apparently have have anything at all to do with the absence of Flash. If you have some evidence otherwise, present it. Until then, we'll file it under wishful thinking in fantasy land.
So really if the guys comments reflect reality then why all the half a$$ responses. It is certainly a sign of immaturity if you can't accept comments on reality.
Seriously, you're here defending the blatant troll Blackintosh? Well, I guess there's no question about why you're here.
The addition of AirPlay makes it unlikely iPads will ever have HDMI.
Especially now that HDMI has been fully neutered.
What is the legality of selling a return item as new, vs refurbished, and what is the exact definition of refurbished (is it industry specific, or is it governed by law?).
If it's been opened, it's illegal to advertise and sell it as new, hence refurbished. Some stores call it "open box" if nothing has been done to it. And since nobody will pay full price for an item that's not new, a discount is warranted.
The definition depends on the company and even on the product. Apple says these iPads have new batteries and new enclosures. Refurbished Apple computers, however, don't get new enclosures. They're just checked for function via diagnostics and appearance blemishes then the hard drive is wiped and OS reinstalled. Then there's the distinction between factory refurbished, dealer reconditioned, etc. There are just too many variables. Always read the fine print.
I don't know if that is worth a $50 discount to me. Kidding aside, I am still waiting for the 2.0 next year.
I need to get one for an app I am developing, but I think I will wait for the 2.0 with a camera as well...
I would have expected more than $50.00 of for a refurbished unit. Maybe for a "B" stock the price level is acceptable, but for a refurb it should be at least $100.00 less than new.
Most of the refurbs of current models Apple sells are 15% off the regular price, give or take. They are fully covered by the as-new warranty.