<strong>no. u got it all wrong. God gave us free will. we either choose to accept him, or we choose the world. the choice that he gave us is what determines our outcome. we choose our own path. dont say that things are pre-destined just cause we believe in God. the whole basis of the Christian faith is that we choose to follow right or wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>
absolutely not. Christians believe that god is all knowing and all powerful. it is impossible to think that with those 2 things that we still have free will. some may not want to admit it but if you are a christian you most certainly have to believe that everything is predetermined
Cut it out people! Greedy? This is how these guys earn a living. Scott, they were paid $1 million of which they've said they would keep enough to cover their expenses and donate the rest to some charity.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What the hell do they care about the $ from this? I mean with this on their resume, they can get any job they want--do any project they want... they are made for the rest of their lives... they dont need $ from this documentary, they will make it somewhere else!!
Oh poor baby. It's almost as if you have to jump from the 95th floor yourself. I feel your pain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just because he's sick of hearing 9/11 doesn't mean he doesn't feel bad for the families of the people who lost their lives. People are entitled to feel however they want without people like you making stupid comments.
Just because he's sick of hearing 9/11 doesn't mean he doesn't feel bad for the families of the people who lost their lives. People are entitled to feel however they want without people like you making stupid comments.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure but sometimes that means they are whinny babies.
Back to the God thing for a sec, this is the only post I intend to post on this subject. I personally am a very strong Christian, and I believe fully in free will. One of the reasons for this, is I have seen people who have chosen wrong, even though they are Christians. If people did not have free will, then choice would not exist to be able to choose to love God or not, hence, it would not be love. Secondly, I want to say that I am not trying to force this on others. I am merely stating what I believe personally to be true. The reason I believe is because of how much my life has changed since I put my faith in God. I can honestly say that without Him in my life, I would have killed myself many years ago. I think we all need to remember to not respond negatively to those who believe differently, as that just will reflect negatively on one's own self.
I now want to express my own sympathy for those who were 1)In the attacks, and 2) Those effected by it. I personally knew at least one person who was killed, and knew (not as well) a couple of others. It is aweful that anyone would consider killing another human being, no matter for what cause it pertains to.
absolutely not. Christians believe that god is all knowing and all powerful. it is impossible to think that with those 2 things that we still have free will. some may not want to admit it but if you are a christian you most certainly have to believe that everything is predetermined</strong><hr></blockquote>
God gave us a choice. choose Him...or choose the world. simple as that. go look it up. thats how it is.
Saying "go read it" is the tool of someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.
I've read the Bible, 3 times as a matter of fact, have you? If you'd like to thump with me I'd be happy to oblige.
God creates us and the world. Life is predetermined. In God's eyes, you are already in heaven or hell. Tell me, what is free will when your fate is sealed?
It's "free will" to us because we don't know, that's all. It's an illusion to us because we don't know.
Scott:
Remove your head from your ass immediately. Those two Frenchmen did more to help the victims of 9-11 than you ever have. They risked their lives repeatedly, facing loss, only to help strangers.
Saying "go read it" is the tool of someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.
I've read the Bible, 3 times as a matter of fact, have you? If you'd like to thump with me I'd be happy to oblige.
God creates us and the world. Life is predetermined. In God's eyes, you are already in heaven or hell. Tell me, what is free will when your fate is sealed?
It's "free will" to us because we don't know, that's all. It's an illusion to us because we don't know.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
ok, tell me this grover. if u assume that yer going to hell, are u gonna go and kill a bunch of people and then commit suicide cause theres no hope in yer mind??? or would u try to make yer life better and commit yer life to God? THAT is the choice. u can choose to continue in sin, or change for the better. if u just go blindly along assuming that life is just gonna happen, nothin will happen. u must make it happen. therefore, u have the choice to do it or not. in the same way, if u assume yer going to heaven, are u gonna slack off and start living a sinful life cause u are going to heaven no matter what??? all in all, you ARE making decisions.
btw, when i said "go read it" i was telling him to try reading before acting like he knows everything. i said something, and if he cares enuff to actually understand it, then he could read about it. simple as that. im not gonna sit here and preach the entire bible to someone online. also, the bible is full of interpretation. what u might see one way, someone else might see another way. whats important is how it all fits in yer individual life and the circumstances surrounding it.
ok, tell me this grover. if u assume that yer going to hell, are u gonna go and kill a bunch of people and then commit suicide cause theres no hope in yer mind??? or would u try to make yer life better and commit yer life to God? THAT is the choice.</strong><hr></blockquote>
that's not a choice. god already knows what you would "choose". every choice you make god already knew about and had "planned" out.
that's not a choice. god already knows what you would "choose". every choice you make god already knew about and had "planned" out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
this is a difficult thing to imagine...
i believe that we each have a destiny, or rather many potential destinies. however, i dont think its as set as u seem to imply. we could end in glory, or in shame. that all depends on our own personal decisions. i could go right now and shoot some dude in a fit of rage, just cause i felt like it--or to see what happens in the afterlife. or...i could restrain myself and live according to my original "plan." each decision we make changes the future dramatically. if i go right one day instead of left, that action will change the rest of the day, and potentially the rest of my life. i have seen this in action--i have tested it. u could just say, "well it was that way cause thats how it was meant to be." but i know better. theres more to it than that. we are given the freedom of choice through it all. u obviously are a fatalist. ironically enuff, ive been called a fatalist myself...but yet i believe in free will...
What you have is the illusion of free will if you believe that God that created you.
Making decisions, choosing paths, blah blah blah... those are choices because you don't know what you are going to do yet. God does know, you've already killed or not killed. You've already had kids or not had kids.
Eternity isn't a linear progression, it's a circle. If God is infinite and your creatorthen there can be no free will because you are, therefore, not infinite.
I make a small snowball and a mountain covered with snow. I know that the mountain is smooth because I made it. I tell the wind not to blow. I set the ball at the top and watch it roll down. the snowball has no choice but to grow.
<strong>What you have is the illusion of free will if you believe that God that created you.
Making decisions, choosing paths, blah blah blah... those are choices because you don't know what you are going to do yet. God does know, you've already killed or not killed. You've already had kids or not had kids.
Eternity isn't a linear progression, it's a circle. If God is infinite and your creatorthen there can be no free will because you are, therefore, not infinite.
I make a small snowball and a mountain covered with snow. I know that the mountain is smooth because I made it. I tell the wind not to blow. I set the ball at the top and watch it roll down. the snowball has no choice but to grow.</strong><hr></blockquote>
true enuff. its the circular peridox that makes this so hard to put into words and even to imagine. we think in only 3 dimensions...
ok well i wont argue anymore--we each believe what we believe...
and im tired...
gonna go watch jon stewart now. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
just because "God" "knows" what we will choose to do, it does not mean that it has been predetermined by Him... It is still our choice... he has no real control over it...
<strong>just because "God" "knows" what we will choose to do, it does not mean that it has been predetermined by Him... It is still our choice... he has no real control over it...</strong><hr></blockquote>
if he is all knowing and all powerful he has control of everything.
i think it is against christian belief to think he does NOT have control of everything.
He has the control to let us make our own choices.. if thats the way he wants it to be--thats the way it will be... he wants us to have free will..... i mean whats the point of love if you do not have a choice in the matter? without choice, the whole idea of God loving us does not make sence...
Remove your head from your ass immediately. Those two Frenchmen did more to help the victims of 9-11 than you ever have. They risked their lives repeatedly, facing loss, only to help strangers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Get a grip you mindless asshole. Oh and go **** yourself while you're at it. All I did was suggest that they were making money on it and then later said that in fact I don't begrudge them for it because they got some important footage. So **** you.
Scott, being the whining troll that you are, there is ample reason to believe that the reason you bring up monetary compensation is because they are French.
Do you question the motives of fire department workers?
They didn't just shoot footage, they dug for bodies for hours after the buildings collapsed. You will laud the FDNY as heroes but merely "not begrudge" some Frenchmen making a few bucks for their work.
What if I were to inject "Well, I bet the firemen are getting fat overtime checks" into a thread about their heroic actions?
Your attitudes and gripes are well-documented and pervasive, Scott. Just leave it alone.
<strong>Scott, being the whining troll that you are, there is ample reason to believe that the reason you bring up monetary compensation is because they are French.
Do you question the motives of fire department workers?
They didn't just shoot footage, they dug for bodies for hours after the buildings collapsed. You will laud the FDNY as heroes but merely "not begrudge" some Frenchmen making a few bucks for their work.
What if I were to inject "Well, I bet the firemen are getting fat overtime checks" into a thread about their heroic actions?
Your attitudes and gripes are well-documented and pervasive, Scott. Just leave it alone.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You assume to much. I brought it up becuase it was an issue on a teevee talk show related to CBS I was watching the other night. So **** off. Why don't you "just leave it alone" asshole.
The firemen get paid to help people live. The people who shot the video are making money by video taping people dying. Get the difference? I'm sure you don't or you wouldn't have brought it up in teh first place.
Comments
<strong>9-11, I'm so sick of that word.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm sick of your signature...change that Tiga Tiga Tiga loser.
<strong>no. u got it all wrong. God gave us free will. we either choose to accept him, or we choose the world. the choice that he gave us is what determines our outcome. we choose our own path. dont say that things are pre-destined just cause we believe in God. the whole basis of the Christian faith is that we choose to follow right or wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>
absolutely not. Christians believe that god is all knowing and all powerful. it is impossible to think that with those 2 things that we still have free will. some may not want to admit it but if you are a christian you most certainly have to believe that everything is predetermined
<strong>
Cut it out people! Greedy? This is how these guys earn a living. Scott, they were paid $1 million of which they've said they would keep enough to cover their expenses and donate the rest to some charity.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What the hell do they care about the $ from this? I mean with this on their resume, they can get any job they want--do any project they want... they are made for the rest of their lives... they dont need $ from this documentary, they will make it somewhere else!!
<strong>
Oh poor baby. It's almost as if you have to jump from the 95th floor yourself. I feel your pain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just because he's sick of hearing 9/11 doesn't mean he doesn't feel bad for the families of the people who lost their lives. People are entitled to feel however they want without people like you making stupid comments.
<strong>
Just because he's sick of hearing 9/11 doesn't mean he doesn't feel bad for the families of the people who lost their lives. People are entitled to feel however they want without people like you making stupid comments.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sure but sometimes that means they are whinny babies.
[ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
I now want to express my own sympathy for those who were 1)In the attacks, and 2) Those effected by it. I personally knew at least one person who was killed, and knew (not as well) a couple of others. It is aweful that anyone would consider killing another human being, no matter for what cause it pertains to.
<strong>
absolutely not. Christians believe that god is all knowing and all powerful. it is impossible to think that with those 2 things that we still have free will. some may not want to admit it but if you are a christian you most certainly have to believe that everything is predetermined</strong><hr></blockquote>
God gave us a choice. choose Him...or choose the world. simple as that. go look it up. thats how it is.
God created us and the world.
Saying "go read it" is the tool of someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.
I've read the Bible, 3 times as a matter of fact, have you? If you'd like to thump with me I'd be happy to oblige.
God creates us and the world. Life is predetermined. In God's eyes, you are already in heaven or hell. Tell me, what is free will when your fate is sealed?
It's "free will" to us because we don't know, that's all. It's an illusion to us because we don't know.
Scott:
Remove your head from your ass immediately. Those two Frenchmen did more to help the victims of 9-11 than you ever have. They risked their lives repeatedly, facing loss, only to help strangers.
<strong>alliance:
God created us and the world.
Saying "go read it" is the tool of someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.
I've read the Bible, 3 times as a matter of fact, have you? If you'd like to thump with me I'd be happy to oblige.
God creates us and the world. Life is predetermined. In God's eyes, you are already in heaven or hell. Tell me, what is free will when your fate is sealed?
It's "free will" to us because we don't know, that's all. It's an illusion to us because we don't know.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
ok, tell me this grover. if u assume that yer going to hell, are u gonna go and kill a bunch of people and then commit suicide cause theres no hope in yer mind??? or would u try to make yer life better and commit yer life to God? THAT is the choice. u can choose to continue in sin, or change for the better. if u just go blindly along assuming that life is just gonna happen, nothin will happen. u must make it happen. therefore, u have the choice to do it or not. in the same way, if u assume yer going to heaven, are u gonna slack off and start living a sinful life cause u are going to heaven no matter what??? all in all, you ARE making decisions.
btw, when i said "go read it" i was telling him to try reading before acting like he knows everything. i said something, and if he cares enuff to actually understand it, then he could read about it. simple as that. im not gonna sit here and preach the entire bible to someone online. also, the bible is full of interpretation. what u might see one way, someone else might see another way. whats important is how it all fits in yer individual life and the circumstances surrounding it.
<strong>
ok, tell me this grover. if u assume that yer going to hell, are u gonna go and kill a bunch of people and then commit suicide cause theres no hope in yer mind??? or would u try to make yer life better and commit yer life to God? THAT is the choice.</strong><hr></blockquote>
that's not a choice. god already knows what you would "choose". every choice you make god already knew about and had "planned" out.
<strong>
that's not a choice. god already knows what you would "choose". every choice you make god already knew about and had "planned" out.</strong><hr></blockquote>
this is a difficult thing to imagine...
i believe that we each have a destiny, or rather many potential destinies. however, i dont think its as set as u seem to imply. we could end in glory, or in shame. that all depends on our own personal decisions. i could go right now and shoot some dude in a fit of rage, just cause i felt like it--or to see what happens in the afterlife. or...i could restrain myself and live according to my original "plan." each decision we make changes the future dramatically. if i go right one day instead of left, that action will change the rest of the day, and potentially the rest of my life. i have seen this in action--i have tested it. u could just say, "well it was that way cause thats how it was meant to be." but i know better. theres more to it than that. we are given the freedom of choice through it all. u obviously are a fatalist. ironically enuff, ive been called a fatalist myself...but yet i believe in free will...
go figure...
Making decisions, choosing paths, blah blah blah... those are choices because you don't know what you are going to do yet. God does know, you've already killed or not killed. You've already had kids or not had kids.
Eternity isn't a linear progression, it's a circle. If God is infinite and your creatorthen there can be no free will because you are, therefore, not infinite.
I make a small snowball and a mountain covered with snow. I know that the mountain is smooth because I made it. I tell the wind not to blow. I set the ball at the top and watch it roll down. the snowball has no choice but to grow.
<strong>What you have is the illusion of free will if you believe that God that created you.
Making decisions, choosing paths, blah blah blah... those are choices because you don't know what you are going to do yet. God does know, you've already killed or not killed. You've already had kids or not had kids.
Eternity isn't a linear progression, it's a circle. If God is infinite and your creatorthen there can be no free will because you are, therefore, not infinite.
I make a small snowball and a mountain covered with snow. I know that the mountain is smooth because I made it. I tell the wind not to blow. I set the ball at the top and watch it roll down. the snowball has no choice but to grow.</strong><hr></blockquote>
true enuff. its the circular peridox that makes this so hard to put into words and even to imagine. we think in only 3 dimensions...
ok well i wont argue anymore--we each believe what we believe...
and im tired...
gonna go watch jon stewart now. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
pretty interesting stuff when you start thinking about it hard.
<strong>just because "God" "knows" what we will choose to do, it does not mean that it has been predetermined by Him... It is still our choice... he has no real control over it...</strong><hr></blockquote>
if he is all knowing and all powerful he has control of everything.
i think it is against christian belief to think he does NOT have control of everything.
<strong>
Scott:
Remove your head from your ass immediately. Those two Frenchmen did more to help the victims of 9-11 than you ever have. They risked their lives repeatedly, facing loss, only to help strangers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Get a grip you mindless asshole. Oh and go **** yourself while you're at it. All I did was suggest that they were making money on it and then later said that in fact I don't begrudge them for it because they got some important footage. So **** you.
Do you question the motives of fire department workers?
They didn't just shoot footage, they dug for bodies for hours after the buildings collapsed. You will laud the FDNY as heroes but merely "not begrudge" some Frenchmen making a few bucks for their work.
What if I were to inject "Well, I bet the firemen are getting fat overtime checks" into a thread about their heroic actions?
Your attitudes and gripes are well-documented and pervasive, Scott. Just leave it alone.
<strong>Scott, being the whining troll that you are, there is ample reason to believe that the reason you bring up monetary compensation is because they are French.
Do you question the motives of fire department workers?
They didn't just shoot footage, they dug for bodies for hours after the buildings collapsed. You will laud the FDNY as heroes but merely "not begrudge" some Frenchmen making a few bucks for their work.
What if I were to inject "Well, I bet the firemen are getting fat overtime checks" into a thread about their heroic actions?
Your attitudes and gripes are well-documented and pervasive, Scott. Just leave it alone.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You assume to much. I brought it up becuase it was an issue on a teevee talk show related to CBS I was watching the other night. So **** off. Why don't you "just leave it alone" asshole.
The firemen get paid to help people live. The people who shot the video are making money by video taping people dying. Get the difference? I'm sure you don't or you wouldn't have brought it up in teh first place.
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>