Maybe.. but I see it as a little more drastic than WinXP to Win7. Applications written for Windows Mobile 6.5 don't even run on WP7.
The difference is more like WinCE to Zune, or Windows 2000 to Xbox (share components, fundamentally different platform).
All of these mobile OSs from MS are written on the CE kernel. From what I've read, WinMo 6.5 is written on the Windows CE 5.2 kernel and WP7 is written on the 6.0 kernel, just like the Zune HD OS.
All I was getting at is that even though it's a complete overhaul of the OS, it's all still written on the same base.
Are you seriously trying to give credit to Microsoft for being an innovative company? If Apple never invented the iPhone, would there be anything like windows phone 7 out there? I mean, look at everyone in the smart phone industry trying their best to copy/paste Apples iPhone design and feel. Seriously, stop jocking Microsoftcrap and call it like it is, windows phone 7 is years late, its going to eventually fail, and if not, enjoy mediocre at best marketshare.
I have had dealings wit Microsoft dating back to 1979.
I have a strong dislike and distrust for the Microsoft company, their style and ethics --based on personal experience as a Microsoft customer and reseller.
I [mostly] dislike Microsoft products -- Excel and SQL Server are the exceptions.
I have never owned a PC, and, likely, never will.
I go out of my way to avoid Microsoft products if an acceptable alternative is available.
The only Microsoft product I currently own is Windows XP SP2 -- that I bought so I could run a few Windows-only apps using Parallels. I have not done this in over a year.
I have purchased products in every Apple category since the Apple ]{
I like Apple and Apple products
We currently own 7 Macs, 2 iPads, 7 iPhones and 15 or so iPods -- no competing products
A large part of my portfolio is invested in AAPL stock -- some shares originally purchased for $9 (accounting for splits)
Apple has been very good to me
However;
I try very hard not to let the above bias my opinions when making purchasing and investment decisions.
I believe that one of the reasons that the Mac acceptance has grown, is because, with Intel Macs, it is easy to run Windows apps on a Mac-- removing a big deterrent for many users,
I try to look at every technology product with an open mind -- from a user standpoint and from a potential investor standpoint'.
When interested, I examine a product in detail and try to make an objective evaluation.
Short story, long:
"Are you seriously trying to give credit to Microsoft for being an innovative company? "
Yes! There are Innovations in the WP7 UI that are innovative -- as I tried to detail in my post.
There, also are deficiencies -- but I suspect these will be overcome with future enhancements:
-- system-wide search
-- exit app returns to where you were
-- fast app switching (when multi-tasking is added)
-- copy paste.
When/if that happens, WP7 could be a competitor -- especially with its enterprise penetration.
I certainly will look at it from a technology investor's perspective vis-a-vis the others out there.
Personally, I think WP7 is too little too late -- but I am willing to watch and wait!
"Gamers" (XBox gamers anyway), are a tiny category though, which points to the reason the WinPhone7 will eventually fail.
Xbox owners account for 22 million potential WP7 sales a year, and the number of people interested in a phone with a compelling gaming experience would be higher.
Xbox Live integration isn't all WP7 is about. It's just a feather in their cap. Something to entice those 22+ million potential buyers each year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
At some point Microsoft will go more corporate with the product
No doubt. I actually think it's already business/enterprise (see that Applebaum!?!?) focused.
I'm not sure why you think business is an insignificant market, then again I haven't seen the sales numbers. You might be right.
All of these mobile OSs from MS are written on the CE kernel. From what I've read, WinMo 6.5 is written on the Windows CE 5.2 kernel and WP7 is written on the 6.0 kernel, just like the Zune HD OS.
All I was getting at is that even though it's a complete overhaul of the OS, it's all still written on the same base.
It seems another MS 'Build it and they will come' assumption like many recent products. MS only exist as a corporation because they were able to copy others and then muscle it to success. Those days are over glad to say.
don't be so sure. am seeing those same techniques oozing out....
Zune UI and tile UI are complete turnoffs for me. I think MS should have released a business phone to compete with Blackberry (ie full exchange support, great office implementation, remote support, remote wipe, conference calling, simple work oriented UI with no distractions, world phone with 4 base bands, CDMA/GSM Antennas etc), rather then a consumer phone to complete with apple and google.
As I said before I doubt we will see much past v2 of the Windows 7 Phone, if that.
The active tiles do not aggregate emails for a start off, you need a tile for each and every email account you want to view on your phone, there is NO unified Inbox. So say you have 4 email accounts, well that is 4 tiles to look at!!!!
Ahh... Good to know that!
Is that a restriction or a design deficiency that can be addresses in a later release.
I suspect it is the latter.
Like Apple could add a customizable lock screen with aggregator widgets -- if they'd ever get around to it!
Just made some funny calculation that made me laugh. Lets say they really ad hundreds of apps every week, or lets just assume they ad 300 apps per week. They will need 1000 weeks to catch up. I wonder where Apples App Store will be after 20 Years.
Might be re-iterating someone else's point, but everyone keeps saying "give them time, they are starting off just like apple and android"
this is windows phone 7! They've been doing moble OS for YEARS and have many more years of "expertise" than apple or google, yet they continue to suck everytime. I had a WM5 phone for about 2 years. I couldn't tell you how many problems I had in those years.
At this point if I couldn't have an iphone, I still most certainly would never consider another windows mobile...
When/if that happens, WP7 could be a competitor -- especially with its enterprise penetration.
I certainly will look at it from a technology investor's perspective vis-a-vis the others out there.
My positive outlook on WP7 as a product still wouldn't make me purchase Microsoft shares
Let's say WP7 breaks all expectations and ships 40 million units. What are Microsoft selling it for? $15? Probably subsidized at the moment? So <1% revenue growth and negative profit.
Lets say they swallow RIM and reach 120+ million units in three years. That's still <1% revenue growth each year.
Windows 3.1 wasn't as good as Mac either, but eventually Windows '95 came out. And Lord knows Microsoft have enough money to just keep on going as long as they have to.
Yes, that's always been Microsoft's strategy. They pursue market leaders, always, until the market leaders trip up. Anyone remember Windows CE 1.0 and how it was a joke compared to Palm OS (at the time)? Well, Palm tripped up. Same with Xbox: eventually, Sony tripped up. Netscape tripped up. Borland tripped up. IBM tripped up. Yahoo tripped up.
But as long as Apple keeps executing as it has, people will still line up 1000 deep to enter an Apple Store (like they did in China). You won't get that from Microsoft.
I wonder how much Microsoft is going to charge people for this lack luster product! This should be interesting times indeed, maybe this is the beginning of the end for Microsoft as we once knew them
By the way, how are those Microsoft stores doing lately? are they filled with daily traffic from consumers?
Just made some funny calculation that made me laugh. Lets say they really ad hundreds of apps every week, or lets just assume they ad 300 apps per week. They will need 1000 weeks to catch up. I wonder where Apples App Store will be after 20 Years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider
LOL !!
In fairness, I don't know how meaningful the total number of apps (this from an iOS developer).
I am reasonably sure that the major titles/categories will be well represented on WP7.
On the enterprise side, likely, there will be a few key apps provide by MS, Cisco, SAP, etc. The others will be specially written by/for the particular company.
The big question in my mind is:
Will the whole WP7 ecosystem (devices, OS features, apps, development tools/developers) be robust enough by July 2011.
The second question is what about the tablet market -- I don't believe that a tablet running Windows 7 is going to cut it -- not even gussied up with tights and tutu.
I wonder how much Microsoft is going to charge people for this lack luster product! This should be interesting times indeed, maybe this is the beginning of the end for Microsoft as we once knew them
By the way, how are those Microsoft stores doing lately? are they filled with daily traffic from consumers?
Microsoft's leadership culture is patterned after Bill Gates' predisposition towards hyper-competitive behavior, so these guys are less motivated by making money at WP7 than the idea that they're the underdog and they're gonna compete until they win back market share, then once they've achieved that, they will sit on the business (as they had planned to with IE6 after vanquishing Netscape) until another competitor takes that market share away, then they go right back to being the underdog, and the cycle begins again. Microsoft is fixated on dominating, Apple (under Steve) is fixated on designing insanely great. The results show. WP7 is what it is because Microsoft wants that market share back. If it delights their customers, that is incidental.
My positive outlook on WP7 as a product still wouldn't make me purchase Microsoft shares
Let's say WP7 breaks all expectations and ships 40 million units. What are Microsoft selling it for? $15? Probably subsidized at the moment? So <1% revenue growth and negative profit.
Lets say they swallow RIM and reach 120+ million units in three years. That's still <1% revenue growth each year.
Ahh... but a WP7 success could lead to many investment decisions -- buying and selling, involving suppliers, etc.
I think MS should have released a business phone to compete with Blackberry (ie full exchange support, great office implementation, remote support, remote wipe, conference calling, simple work oriented UI with no distractions, world phone with 4 base bands, CDMA/GSM Antennas etc), rather then a consumer phone to complete with apple and Google.
All that, and more, is coming.
I'd say by this time next year IT Admins will be able to get a fleet of Windows Phones and activate/deactivate them, configure access policies, force software installs/un-installs and generally manage them as if they were on the phone itself... all from existing Windows Servers and all based on existing company access policies.
You give them god mode and they will love you for it. IT Admins as funny like that.
Of course management will keep their iPhones, but everyone else won't get a choice.
Windows mobile is a brand new platform? What on earth are you talking about. iOS and Android came from an installed user base of nothing less than four years ago, windows mobile is on version SEVEN starting with pocket PC which was released over ten years ago.
And still no copy on paste on this version, they've had enough time to integrate it before now...
Pocket PC 2000
Pocket PC 2002
Windows Mobile 2003
Windows Mobile 2003 SE
Windows Mobile 5
Windows Mobile 6
Windows Mobile 6.1
Windows Mobile 6.5
Windows Mobile 6.5.1
Windows Mobile 6.5.3
Windows Mobile 6.5.5
And they still haven't got it right, Apple are on iOS 4 (just) as many major revisions in as many years and are already ahead of windows mobile, which is an established, mature platform with almost ten years of life 'in the wild'.
The OS is based on new code, while Windows Mobile was built off the same code one release after another...
Really, if you can't comprehend this much, I feel sorry for you, and if people want a phone with microsoft software and copy and paste, they can get an HD2 running 6.5.5 and have a great phone.
Comments
Maybe.. but I see it as a little more drastic than WinXP to Win7. Applications written for Windows Mobile 6.5 don't even run on WP7.
The difference is more like WinCE to Zune, or Windows 2000 to Xbox (share components, fundamentally different platform).
All of these mobile OSs from MS are written on the CE kernel. From what I've read, WinMo 6.5 is written on the Windows CE 5.2 kernel and WP7 is written on the 6.0 kernel, just like the Zune HD OS.
All I was getting at is that even though it's a complete overhaul of the OS, it's all still written on the same base.
Are you seriously trying to give credit to Microsoft for being an innovative company? If Apple never invented the iPhone, would there be anything like windows phone 7 out there? I mean, look at everyone in the smart phone industry trying their best to copy/paste Apples iPhone design and feel. Seriously, stop jocking Microsoftcrap and call it like it is, windows phone 7 is years late, its going to eventually fail, and if not, enjoy mediocre at best marketshare.
I have had dealings wit Microsoft dating back to 1979.
I have a strong dislike and distrust for the Microsoft company, their style and ethics --based on personal experience as a Microsoft customer and reseller.
I [mostly] dislike Microsoft products -- Excel and SQL Server are the exceptions.
I have never owned a PC, and, likely, never will.
I go out of my way to avoid Microsoft products if an acceptable alternative is available.
The only Microsoft product I currently own is Windows XP SP2 -- that I bought so I could run a few Windows-only apps using Parallels. I have not done this in over a year.
I have purchased products in every Apple category since the Apple ]{
I like Apple and Apple products
We currently own 7 Macs, 2 iPads, 7 iPhones and 15 or so iPods -- no competing products
A large part of my portfolio is invested in AAPL stock -- some shares originally purchased for $9 (accounting for splits)
Apple has been very good to me
However;
I try very hard not to let the above bias my opinions when making purchasing and investment decisions.
I believe that one of the reasons that the Mac acceptance has grown, is because, with Intel Macs, it is easy to run Windows apps on a Mac-- removing a big deterrent for many users,
I try to look at every technology product with an open mind -- from a user standpoint and from a potential investor standpoint'.
When interested, I examine a product in detail and try to make an objective evaluation.
Short story, long:
"Are you seriously trying to give credit to Microsoft for being an innovative company? "
Yes! There are Innovations in the WP7 UI that are innovative -- as I tried to detail in my post.
There, also are deficiencies -- but I suspect these will be overcome with future enhancements:
-- system-wide search
-- exit app returns to where you were
-- fast app switching (when multi-tasking is added)
-- copy paste.
When/if that happens, WP7 could be a competitor -- especially with its enterprise penetration.
I certainly will look at it from a technology investor's perspective vis-a-vis the others out there.
Personally, I think WP7 is too little too late -- but I am willing to watch and wait!
.
"Gamers" (XBox gamers anyway), are a tiny category though, which points to the reason the WinPhone7 will eventually fail.
Xbox owners account for 22 million potential WP7 sales a year, and the number of people interested in a phone with a compelling gaming experience would be higher.
Xbox Live integration isn't all WP7 is about. It's just a feather in their cap. Something to entice those 22+ million potential buyers each year.
At some point Microsoft will go more corporate with the product
No doubt. I actually think it's already business/enterprise (see that Applebaum!?!?) focused.
I'm not sure why you think business is an insignificant market, then again I haven't seen the sales numbers. You might be right.
All of these mobile OSs from MS are written on the CE kernel. From what I've read, WinMo 6.5 is written on the Windows CE 5.2 kernel and WP7 is written on the 6.0 kernel, just like the Zune HD OS.
All I was getting at is that even though it's a complete overhaul of the OS, it's all still written on the same base.
True that.
It seems another MS 'Build it and they will come' assumption like many recent products. MS only exist as a corporation because they were able to copy others and then muscle it to success. Those days are over glad to say.
don't be so sure. am seeing those same techniques oozing out....
As I said before I doubt we will see much past v2 of the Windows 7 Phone, if that.
The active tiles do not aggregate emails for a start off, you need a tile for each and every email account you want to view on your phone, there is NO unified Inbox. So say you have 4 email accounts, well that is 4 tiles to look at!!!!
Ahh... Good to know that!
Is that a restriction or a design deficiency that can be addresses in a later release.
I suspect it is the latter.
Like Apple could add a customizable lock screen with aggregator widgets -- if they'd ever get around to it!
.
LOL !!
this is windows phone 7! They've been doing moble OS for YEARS and have many more years of "expertise" than apple or google, yet they continue to suck everytime. I had a WM5 phone for about 2 years. I couldn't tell you how many problems I had in those years.
At this point if I couldn't have an iphone, I still most certainly would never consider another windows mobile...
No doubt. I actually think it's already business/enterprise (see that Applebaum!?!?) focused.
I'm not sure why you think business is an insignificant market, then again I haven't seen the sales numbers. You might be right.
I agree with both your punctuation and your perception
.
When/if that happens, WP7 could be a competitor -- especially with its enterprise penetration.
I certainly will look at it from a technology investor's perspective vis-a-vis the others out there.
My positive outlook on WP7 as a product still wouldn't make me purchase Microsoft shares
Let's say WP7 breaks all expectations and ships 40 million units. What are Microsoft selling it for? $15? Probably subsidized at the moment? So <1% revenue growth and negative profit.
Lets say they swallow RIM and reach 120+ million units in three years. That's still <1% revenue growth each year.
Windows 3.1 wasn't as good as Mac either, but eventually Windows '95 came out. And Lord knows Microsoft have enough money to just keep on going as long as they have to.
Yes, that's always been Microsoft's strategy. They pursue market leaders, always, until the market leaders trip up. Anyone remember Windows CE 1.0 and how it was a joke compared to Palm OS (at the time)? Well, Palm tripped up. Same with Xbox: eventually, Sony tripped up. Netscape tripped up. Borland tripped up. IBM tripped up. Yahoo tripped up.
But as long as Apple keeps executing as it has, people will still line up 1000 deep to enter an Apple Store (like they did in China). You won't get that from Microsoft.
By the way, how are those Microsoft stores doing lately? are they filled with daily traffic from consumers?
Which one?
It doesn't matter. It just has to use WP7.
LOL !!
In fairness, I don't know how meaningful the total number of apps (this from an iOS developer).
I am reasonably sure that the major titles/categories will be well represented on WP7.
On the enterprise side, likely, there will be a few key apps provide by MS, Cisco, SAP, etc. The others will be specially written by/for the particular company.
The big question in my mind is:
Will the whole WP7 ecosystem (devices, OS features, apps, development tools/developers) be robust enough by July 2011.
The second question is what about the tablet market -- I don't believe that a tablet running Windows 7 is going to cut it -- not even gussied up with tights and tutu.
.
I wonder how much Microsoft is going to charge people for this lack luster product! This should be interesting times indeed, maybe this is the beginning of the end for Microsoft as we once knew them
By the way, how are those Microsoft stores doing lately? are they filled with daily traffic from consumers?
Microsoft's leadership culture is patterned after Bill Gates' predisposition towards hyper-competitive behavior, so these guys are less motivated by making money at WP7 than the idea that they're the underdog and they're gonna compete until they win back market share, then once they've achieved that, they will sit on the business (as they had planned to with IE6 after vanquishing Netscape) until another competitor takes that market share away, then they go right back to being the underdog, and the cycle begins again. Microsoft is fixated on dominating, Apple (under Steve) is fixated on designing insanely great. The results show. WP7 is what it is because Microsoft wants that market share back. If it delights their customers, that is incidental.
My positive outlook on WP7 as a product still wouldn't make me purchase Microsoft shares
Let's say WP7 breaks all expectations and ships 40 million units. What are Microsoft selling it for? $15? Probably subsidized at the moment? So <1% revenue growth and negative profit.
Lets say they swallow RIM and reach 120+ million units in three years. That's still <1% revenue growth each year.
Ahh... but a WP7 success could lead to many investment decisions -- buying and selling, involving suppliers, etc.
,
I think MS should have released a business phone to compete with Blackberry (ie full exchange support, great office implementation, remote support, remote wipe, conference calling, simple work oriented UI with no distractions, world phone with 4 base bands, CDMA/GSM Antennas etc), rather then a consumer phone to complete with apple and Google.
All that, and more, is coming.
I'd say by this time next year IT Admins will be able to get a fleet of Windows Phones and activate/deactivate them, configure access policies, force software installs/un-installs and generally manage them as if they were on the phone itself... all from existing Windows Servers and all based on existing company access policies.
You give them god mode and they will love you for it. IT Admins as funny like that.
Of course management will keep their iPhones, but everyone else won't get a choice.
Ahh... but a WP7 success could lead to many investment decisions -- buying and selling, involving suppliers, etc.
At which point it gets too complicated for me and I tap out.
Windows mobile is a brand new platform? What on earth are you talking about. iOS and Android came from an installed user base of nothing less than four years ago, windows mobile is on version SEVEN starting with pocket PC which was released over ten years ago.
And still no copy on paste on this version, they've had enough time to integrate it before now...
Pocket PC 2000
Pocket PC 2002
Windows Mobile 2003
Windows Mobile 2003 SE
Windows Mobile 5
Windows Mobile 6
Windows Mobile 6.1
Windows Mobile 6.5
Windows Mobile 6.5.1
Windows Mobile 6.5.3
Windows Mobile 6.5.5
And they still haven't got it right, Apple are on iOS 4 (just) as many major revisions in as many years and are already ahead of windows mobile, which is an established, mature platform with almost ten years of life 'in the wild'.
The OS is based on new code, while Windows Mobile was built off the same code one release after another...
Really, if you can't comprehend this much, I feel sorry for you, and if people want a phone with microsoft software and copy and paste, they can get an HD2 running 6.5.5 and have a great phone.