First Look: Apple's new Mac OS X 10.7 Lion

1234568

Comments

  • Reply 141 of 167
    jnjnjnjnjnjn Posts: 588member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post


    This is what I've been saying all along. Besides a few enlightened individuals, it seems most of the people in here are mindless drones who would profess their love for a pile of shit as long as it has the Apple logo on it.



    Face facts: As shown, Lion is a dud. Steve would have taken that additional hour and a half if he had anything to show.



    I think its pretty mindless of you to categorize someone mindless if he disagrees with you.

    Your other accusation is incredible, do you really believe that?



    The fact of the matter is that Apple presented a pretty radical usage change of it OS. And thats a big deal. And as Steve Jobs mentioned, the rest of the features will be presented later on.



    J.
  • Reply 142 of 167
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    .... next version of Mac OS X 10.7, codenamed Lion.



    HOLD UP THERE... REWIND.



    1) Look at the product page, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION OF THE VERSION NUMBER. Nor did Steve or any Apple presenter at any point give us the version number as being 10.7.

    2) When did Steve say "Lion" was a code name? Please give me an exact time code.



    This is insane. Talk about speculation and conjecture over actual journalism.
  • Reply 143 of 167
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by henderson101 View Post


    1) Look at the product page, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION OF THE VERSION NUMBER. Nor did Steve or any Apple presenter at any point give us the version number as being 10.7.



    Can't rename Snow Leopard halfway through. Get over it.



    Quote:

    2) When did Steve say "Lion" was a code name? Please give me an exact time code.



    WHEN IT CAME UP ON THE FRICKING SCREEN. It's also on Apple's website. I'm curious as to your purpose for even asking this.
  • Reply 144 of 167
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post


    No you haven't you have been expanding a window to 99.9% full screen, you sill have the window "box" and the top bar. Try again please.



    The fact remains, though, that various applications for Mac OS X have provided a mechanism for taking up 100% of the display for their own purposes, getting rid of the entire window border, as well as the system menu bar.



    Examples:

    - Many (most?) video players have a full-screen playback mode

    - Firefox for Mac OS X, just like Firefox in every other OS, offers a true full-screen web browsing mode



    Perhaps the big difference in 10.7 will be that the OS will offer a standardized API, so that each application doesn't have to re-implement it from scratch.



    _______________



    On another note, this App Store thing clearly isn't a core selling feature for Lion -- because it's being released as an add-on for Snow Leopard first.
  • Reply 145 of 167
    capnbobcapnbob Posts: 388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post


    Wow, you predicted that Apple would make Mac OS X look and act like their cash cow. Congrats, you're a genius.



    I fail to see how this is a step forward. Working on 1 app at a time makes sense on a mobile platform due to restrictions in screen size, processing power, and memory. But on a desktop, not only CAN I multitask, but I usually NEED to. The reason I have a big screen is so I can have more than one app present at any given time.



    This is a big step forward for the 80% of Mac users who would rather that this thing was simple like their iDevice. What people here forget is that this is not 2000 where only the Mac geek faithful were buying macs. This is 2010 and beyond and the vast majority of the market for Macs is the non-technical, the single-tasking, the get it done and move on crowd. Why we are defending a 30 year old paradigm based on an imaginary office-based workflow, I don't know.



    The complex windowed, freeform workflow world of desktop OSs has always been a nerd creation of what geeks think everyone should do. Its like Knowledge Management geeks have tried to corral us into complex taxonomies and structures that no-one really wants to use. That is being blown away by search-centric, social collaboration modes and I think similarly, the complex windowed interface could well become the optional not dominant form of operation for PCs.



    I think back to my sci-fi where most examples I can remember - ST-TNG, minority report, etc. seemed to be full screen apps and at most dashboards. Pick an app, bring it to the front, kill it, move on.

    I could be wrong but that is how it seemed. I just don't believe that most humans are good parallel processing animals. Let the OS manage a dashboard and background processes but don't make me do it unless I choose to.
  • Reply 146 of 167
    capnbobcapnbob Posts: 388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MuncyWeb View Post


    Putting in my vote on Mission Confusing. I know there is some time before the next release and thank goodness for that. This portion needs some major tweaking. Apple should look at the different ways these things interact before coming up with "a whole other way" to do things. I am also thinking that FaceTime could have somehow become part of iChat, or vice versa. All these new apps and methodology. OS X started out with simplicity, has aged and grown. But adding on more features in the hopes of making it more simple -- these things must be more thought out before implementing them. One guy mentioned the 'freedom' of the users. Amen to that. I LOVE Apple, but occasionally they do some oddball things. I look forward to this bit of stumbling (in my opinion) pushing them on to even better things.



    I think that Apple needs to stop listening to the people on this forum first and foremost. Judging by the past few products and releases, they have done that, only no-one told all the blowhards on AI.



    The people here mostly represent the Apple of the the past, as it was when it was a $5Bn company and sold 3M Macs per year. Since then it has become 12 times larger, sells 4.5x as many Macs, has 5x the number of iOS users as OSX users and many of them are non-technical and like neither the complexity of OSX or Win7. Apple is pandering to its core market now and it is not us.



    10.7 looks like a transition where the consumer OS is still half baked but 10.8 will probably have 2 very different modes - Pro and consumer OS UX's. Apple won't look to alienate its loyal but small base but must focus on its new core - average Joes.

    I will continue with the Pro-OS but most of the people I have influenced into buying macs will do much better on a single-tasking OS model based on iOS operations.
  • Reply 147 of 167
    kedakeda Posts: 722member
    Please stop reacting to this product demo as if it is a final release. Saying that this is the most disappointing release of the Mac OS is nuts. They showed a few features that were probably selected because of their visual impact. Moreover, we have no idea how un/usable these features will be. Breathe.



    I've seen a few comments that suggest Spaces will be removed. Is this a documented fact, or a deduction from the demo?



    I believe that we are getting our first glimpses into a future of computing that moves away from the desktop metaphor. Look at iTunes and iPhoto, for example. These apps manage the files and allow the user to interact with the content instead of the file system; both are also good full screen candidates. This is the same approach that is implemented on the iphone/ipad, which is generally a good thing. However, I do not want to see the Finder done away with, and I never want to be forced to ONLY interact in a full screen environment. Apple will likely strike a balance, that allows the user to determine the computing experience.
  • Reply 148 of 167
    pinepine Posts: 22member
    I have had a good time being a complete apple nut over the past 6 years but today about sealed it for me. I love all my apple computers and my iPhone that I have now. But this new OS stuff is just silly and (off topic) if the macbook air was about $300 cheaper, I would be all about it. I feel all of this has made any pro-argument I have about apple invalid. It has been a fun ride. I hope to return some day.
  • Reply 149 of 167
    Launch Pad? Mission Control - Mac Command Centre? How embarrassing! What's the Preferences going to be called, Tranquility Base?



    All my Apps are listed alphabetically in a folder called ... Applications. I have added my Application folder to my dock and when I click on it a scrolling alphabetical list window appears and I can drill down into sub folders. It's so elegant. Have Apple forgotten about this neat facility? Alternatively there's Spotlight. Why are they wasting resources fixing something that ain't broke? In the meantime there are many other Finder improvements they could make.



    For one, I would like it if Apple made it an option to automatically open two Finder windows with one beneath the other. In the meantime I'm using TotalFinder and its Finder tabs which are very clever and useful. And I've just noticed a flashlight or halo effect around the mouse pointer as it is moved from one tab to the next - cool, I've not seen that before!



    If what we've seen of LION represents THE MOST eye-catching improvements due to be made then Apple had better price the upgrade at no more than $9.99. \
  • Reply 150 of 167
    I didn't see anything really that couldn't be implemented on Leopard. In fact the AppStore (and facetime?) are already slated for snow leopard.



    Front Row and even a lot of flash apps already can do the fullscreen thing.





    Am I becoming non overwhelamable? or is this bigger than I think?





    Obviously there' more to come...





    As for the iLife update. Underwhelmed again for 2 years of development. By now I'd think I could enter lyrics and I WOULD get overwhelmed if Garageband could SING them too!! Yea. Not gonna happen.
  • Reply 151 of 167
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    That was a good call be my on the zoom-window button becoming a fullscreen button.



    I have to say though, I'm not happy with Mission Control. I find it very confusing compared to the way the Mac is now. I know this is beta software, but I think they need to do some rethinking/re-engineering on that. It's sort of a mess in my opinion. I do however like the Launchpad, but I think the dock should be hidden when Launchpad is open, with arrow-buttons for going through app pages - in addition to those gestures. I don't have a magic-trackpad, and I never will.



    Then maybe you should consider sticking to windows 7 operating system then, I think these features are expanding on already very useful features and they're a welcome addition to the overall feel and usability of macosx.
  • Reply 152 of 167
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post


    The complex windowed, freeform workflow world of desktop OSs has always been a nerd creation of what geeks think everyone should do. Its like Knowledge Management geeks have tried to corral us into complex taxonomies and structures that no-one really wants to use.



    vi will never die!!! And don't give me none of that abomination vim, either!



    I think Apple had to demo Lion so they could start seeding it to developers. They know the second they do, someone will break the NDA. Much better to give a sneak peak and get ahead of the rumor mill.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 153 of 167
    eauviveeauvive Posts: 237member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post


    vi will never die!!! And don't give me none of that abomination vim, either!



    Vi is for morons. Real programmers? use ed, of course!
  • Reply 154 of 167
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zindako View Post


    Then maybe you should consider sticking to windows 7 operating system then.



    Don't tell me what OS to use. Just because I use and like Snow Leopard doesn't mean I have to like what Apple does with Lion. Get a clue.
  • Reply 155 of 167
    sgnqsgnq Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    I agree about the app store for the Mac being a great idea. I just don't like the UI alterations to hobble the Mac with a more iOS looking interface. Makes no sense for professionals and experienced Mac users, but it will make the noobs more comfortable. Getting a bad feeling with this looming update.



    Hey, you may be right, but consider this: look carefully at the way they pulled off the iPhoto '11 full-screen mode, and compare with how the current File/Edit/View/Random stuff/Window menu paradigm works in action: I don't think the full-screen idea is just to comfort the noobs. It's more of an evolution that at least in some cases actually makes some more sense in terms of how to construct interface metaphors.



    - At the bottom of the iPhoto screen is, just like in most iOS applications, buttons to change between different categories of objects that the application manipulates. As these are the main controls besides the objects on the screen themselves, it replaces the often pretty awkward View menu (often used to switch both between categories of objects and various view options), and puts the objects into the center of attention.



    - the view options are in the bottom-left corner.

    - In the bottom-right corner are the "action" buttons, but obviously, these will change depending on the context/category of objects that one is operating on at the moment. The same is true of the view options. Thus we have ridden ourselves of often half a screenful of inactive menu items.



    - By focusing on kinds of objects/ contexts, rather than windows, as the basic unit of the applications we're basically rid of the Window menu. Nothing stops an application from letting you move interface elements around as you see fit... there's just no need for a Window menu for it. Windows as metaphors actually surprisingly often don't make sense, and that's probably more obvious to noobs than us seasoned freaks.



    - With auto-save, and by focusing on documents as one object category among others, rather than as files, the File menu starts to look old. I admit I don't know what the file system interface will look like in the future, though I guess we're heading towards something more ZFS-like and maybe changed metaphors in the process, but something clearly will (need to) happen.



    So, I don't think Apple are out of their minds. But it does feel kind of spooky to have a corporation re-design the way we interact with our preciouses...
  • Reply 156 of 167
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nkhm View Post


    The dock is instant access in all screens to favourite apps. Launchpad is way of sorting and accessing all apps. Is there any problem with having two ways of doing the same thing, exactly as you do today - use the dock, stick your apps folder into the dock to act as a stack, or view the apps folder in finder. Work the way that you prefer - it's called choice.



    I agree. I still use DragThing a third party shareware utility that first came out in 1994 in addition to Apple's dock as it has a few features that the dock doesn't have and also since I have been using it since it first came out. Launchpad will just give me a third way to launch programs.
  • Reply 157 of 167
    sgnqsgnq Posts: 11member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    I can see why you'd think that, but how else do you do a home screen on the Mac? Which is probably needed when you have a App Store experience.



    The thing I find really confusing -besides M.C. - is having both a dock and the launcher around together. Why should the dock exist when there's a launcher? Not that I dislike the dock, it's just confusing. The dock is a launcher, so why do we need two launchers?



    This is the same question as why iOS has an application switcher, when Jobs said "if you see an application switcher, they blew it", isn't it? Yet in iOS you don't need to use the application switcher, it's only a list of recently active apps. The Dock becomes a cross between the iOS Dock and application switcher i think. No idea exactly how, though.
  • Reply 158 of 167
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,390moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mitchelljd View Post


    But will OSX Lion support BLU-RAY??????



    this is retarded how backward Apple is being all to protect their iTunes movie rentals. BS, Apple makes alot of money. look at this Quarters Apple Earnings.



    I don't think it's just about money. If they commit to making any of their products with Blu-Ray drives, any products they leave it out on will seem inferior. The future of notebooks is what you see in the Macbook Air and there's no optical in there at all.



    1080p video is probably the highest resolution consumer format that will ever be distributed and H.264 at 8Mbps bitrate is plenty so a movie download is under 6GB. On a 10Mbps connection, this would stream down in real-time or you could download it in under 90 minutes.



    Optical disc authoring is such a pain. Just going straight to a digital format and uploading it somewhere is so much easier. Blank Blu-Ray discs aren't all that cheap yet and most come in at £5 each but some packs come in just under £2 per disc.



    They take nearly an hour to burn a 25GB disc and your sanity would wear pretty thin hitting a burn error in there. I'd much rather fill 8GB USB pen drives at £8 each that take 10 minutes for each and I could copy 4 at once on a desktop and 2 at once on a laptop.



    Once Nand memory halves in price next year, 8GB drives come down to £4 and so on to the point where Blu-Ray is meaningless in 2 years for personal authoring. Netflix are now starting to go streaming-only:



    http://iptv.tmcnet.com/topics/iptv/a...ice-the-us.htm



    "Three years ago we were a DVD-by-mail company that offered some streaming. We are now a streaming company, which also offers DVD-by-mail."
  • Reply 159 of 167
    pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post


    I got the impression that's all there was. Is there evidence to the contrary?



    If that's the impression you got, then I don't think anyone can help you.
  • Reply 160 of 167
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    The thing I find really confusing -besides M.C. - is having both a dock and the launcher around together. Why should the dock exist when there's a launcher? Not that I dislike the dock, it's just confusing. The dock is a launcher, so why do we need two launchers?



    Maybe it?s to give the user an option. ?Old school? users may prefer the Dock, but those converts to Mac (who are apparently still at 50%) may be iOS savvy and prefer Launcher.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sgnq View Post


    This is the same question as why iOS has an application switcher, when Jobs said "if you see an application switcher, they blew it", isn't it?



    Wasn?t his comment specifically about a Task Manager in regards to seeing what apps are taking up HW resources. As you stated, Fast App Switcher just shows recently used apps with no indicator of which ones are still running in the background.
Sign In or Register to comment.