HP releasing $799 Slate 500 to take on iPad in tablet market

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  • Reply 301 of 433
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    I don't know. I've not read many reviews of the new HP Slate.



    I don't know if it is powerful enough to be a satisfying real computer or not. I don't know if it is necessary for a tablet to be powerful or not. I'm very interested in the category, but I am seldom an early adopter.



    But I do know that I have wanted a cool tablet for years. And I know what my reaction was to the iPad. I found it sorely lacking in functionality.



    I bought my kid a Dell Mini 10 for $250 (on sale) within days after the iPad was announced. It blows away the iPad WRT capability, power and functionality. No magic. Just a nice little laptop for cheap. And the battery lasts all day, in case anybody wanted to chime in with that stuff.



    And he can set up his Palm Pre Plus to be a mobile hotspot, so it can be used anywhere, anytime.



    He's much happier than if he got an iPhone and an iPad instead.



    That's alright, the iPad is not for everyone if a small laptop is actually what they're after. I for one am against shoving Apple products down people's throats. Apple users don't do this.



    We try to just talk about what we discovered about it, and leave the choices to others.



    Many people that get an iPad already have a laptop or desktop computer. It may not make much sense to get an iPad if you don't already have your own computer.



    But the challenge for the HP Slate is, how it directly compares to netbooks because that's the category it's playing in. The iPad may have "poorer specs" but it's in a different category.



    The comparison should be HP Slate to $999 MacBook Air 11". Guess what, the MacBook Air 11" has a 16:9 screen...
  • Reply 302 of 433
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    Agreed. They need to make different version for the different fragments of iOS. The software works only with certain less-popular versions of iOS.



    But the majority of iOS users are stuck with the wrong fragment of the OS, so they are out of luck, and cannot use VLC, or any other software written exclusively for certain fragments of iOS.



    Hmm... the thing is when you say "fragments", or "wrong fragment", it sounds worse than it is.



    Fragments implies small pieces. But there are only two halves here. iPhone/touch and iPad.



    The "wrong" "fragment", if anything, is iPad. There are far more apps for iPhone.



    Not sure how you got focused on VLC, it's a fairly experimental build. The real players in the game are CineXPlayer and OPlayer which smartly makes for both halves of iOS.
  • Reply 303 of 433
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    By that logic, the iPad is less than a netbook at up to 3 times the price.



    It doesn't have the RAM, it doesn't run regular full applications, it has a laughably small disk drive, no HDMI, no ability to output HD, no stereo speakers, and will not play nicely with the vast majority of content, especially web videos, like the local news stations.



    You may have a valid criticism of the HP product, but if you apply the same criteria to the Apple product, it comes up short. Don't compare the iPad to a netbook. It is not in the same class.



    Will you please point out where, in my post from which you quoted me, I said anything to the effect of "iPad rulz, Slate drools!"?? I'm pretty sure I didn't even mention the iPad anywhere in the post. The only mention of "iPad" was in the post that I quoted, but even that wasn't in reference to a comparison between the two.



    I thought I was giving a pretty objective, detached assessment of the Slate.
  • Reply 304 of 433
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post


    Come to think of it, I have removed a couple of things so 11.07GB is probably more accurate.

    14 and 20GB are from microsofts windows 7 sys requirements webpage.



    Well removing all the languages that you will never use frees up a Gig right there. There are a few other legacy items you can remove as well freeing up another Gig. I use MacKeeper, easy to remove all the extra stuff freeing up a ton of space AND making your computer run a bit better.
  • Reply 305 of 433
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pennywse View Post


    Well removing all the languages that you will never use frees up a Gig right there. There are a few other legacy items you can remove as well freeing up another Gig. I use MacKeeper, easy to remove all the extra stuff freeing up a ton of space AND making your computer run a bit better.



    Did you remove printer drivers? Apparently that's at least 1GB, even in Snow Leopard, as I understand.
  • Reply 306 of 433
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    That's alright, the iPad is not for everyone if a small laptop is actually what they're after. I for one am against shoving Apple products down people's throats. Apple users don't do this.



    We try to just talk about what we discovered about it, and leave the choices to others.



    Many people that get an iPad already have a laptop or desktop computer. It may not make much sense to get an iPad if you don't already have your own computer.



    But the challenge for the HP Slate is, how it directly compares to netbooks because that's the category it's playing in. The iPad may have "poorer specs" but it's in a different category.



    The comparison should be HP Slate to $999 MacBook Air 11". Guess what, the MacBook Air 11" has a 16:9 screen...



    And it has a separate physical keyboard and touchpad -- so you never lose screen real estate for input.



    .
  • Reply 307 of 433
    applappl Posts: 348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post




    But the challenge for the HP Slate is, how it directly compares to netbooks because that's the category it's playing in. The iPad may have "poorer specs" but it's in a different category.




    Why is the Apple slate in a different category from the HP Slate? I could easily conceive of an HP Slate with a cellphone OS instead of a full OS, which would eliminate the biggest differentiator.



    ISTM that they share a form factor, and are therefore in the same category: Tablet computers.
  • Reply 308 of 433
    applappl Posts: 348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    The bonus is, you could actually test out Oplayer Lite on your iPhone. For the low, low price of.... Free.



    Then perhaps you could get back to us on any challenges you might have with certain MKV or XVID files or other formats?



    We await your feedback.



    Thanks! I'll check out Oplayer. I have little desire to pay for software in a category that has so much great free software, however.



    I use, variously for different purposes, VLC, Windows Media Player, the built-in player in Utorrent, Firefox, IE, Chrome, Winamp and of course, on occasion, Quicktime and iTunes.



    Every single one of them was free. Most all of them (with notable exceptions) will play all modern codecs.



    If oplayer will allow more versatility out of my iPhone (even a little bit), I will use it.
  • Reply 309 of 433
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    You are right!



    The problem is this: a tablet with a pc os is a niche product.



    When the iPad was announced in Jan, the pundits forecast total tablet sales for 2010 as:



    -- Total tablet sales: 11 .5 units

    -- Total iPad sales .5 million units



    Wrong!



    While what you say is correct, the world has moved on... as nicely as I can put this... It does't matter how good/bad a Windows tablet is... nobody cares!



    .



    Touche. I pretty much agree with you. I was really surprised when they figured the iPad would sell such low numbers. Being not really all that expensive and a great product they should have expected way more.
  • Reply 310 of 433
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cummje View Post


    Touche. I pretty much agree with you. I was really surprised when they figured the iPad would sell such low numbers. Being not really all that expensive and a great product they should have expected way more.



    I figure at least 0.5 million anti-Apple, wanna-be tech reviewers bought them just to complain about it on their blog site.
  • Reply 311 of 433
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    Why is the Apple slate in a different category from the HP Slate? I could easily conceive of an HP Slate with a cellphone OS instead of a full OS, which would eliminate the biggest differentiator.



    ISTM that they share a form factor, and are therefore in the same category: Tablet computers.



    If the HP Slate ran a tablet-targeted OS instead of a desktop OS, then I would say it's comparable directly with the iPad. I see what you did with referring to "cellphone OS" and I'm not biting.



    As it is, the HP Slate is comparable to a netbook, at least the way I'm looking at it.



    The HP Slate is not comparable to an iPad other than they both have a "tablet form factor".



    Therein lies perhaps the "mistake" HP has made. They haven't made an iPad competitor, they've made a netbook competitor.
  • Reply 312 of 433
    applappl Posts: 348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Hmm... the thing is when you say "fragments", or "wrong fragment", it sounds worse than it is.



    Fragments implies small pieces. But there are only two halves here. iPhone/touch and iPad.



    The "wrong" "fragment", if anything, is iPad. There are far more apps for iPhone.



    Not sure how you got focused on VLC, it's a fairly experimental build. The real players in the game are CineXPlayer and OPlayer which smartly makes for both halves of iOS.







    Somebody suggested that VLC would allow iOS devices to play popular codecs. I looked it up, and found that it doesn't work on the vast majority of iOS devices, because iOS is a different OS on different devices.



    I'm kind of used to a world where if you are using the latest version of an OS, software written for the OS will just work. I'm not used to checking which fragment I have, and whether the software is written for my fragment.



    I like it when it just works. I guess I think different.
  • Reply 313 of 433
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    Thanks! I'll check out Oplayer. I have little desire to pay for software in a category that has so much great free software, however.



    I use, variously for different purposes, VLC, Windows Media Player, the built-in player in Utorrent, Firefox, IE, Chrome, Winamp and of course, on occasion, Quicktime and iTunes.



    Every single one of them was free. Most all of them (with notable exceptions) will play all modern codecs.



    If oplayer will allow more versatility out of my iPhone (even a little bit), I will use it.



    There's a catch to the free version of OPlayer You'll see... But it's good to test out it's playback functionality.



    As to whether the full version is worth $2.99 or should be free because so many desktop video players are free... I leave to you all to decide.
  • Reply 314 of 433
    applappl Posts: 348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post


    Will you please point out where, in my post from which you quoted me, I said anything to the effect of "iPad rulz, Slate drools!"?? I'm pretty sure I didn't even mention the iPad anywhere in the post. The only mention of "iPad" was in the post that I quoted, but even that wasn't in reference to a comparison between the two.



    I thought I was giving a pretty objective, detached assessment of the Slate.



    I have no problem with your asessment of the slate. I realize that you did not asses the iPad.



    So I used your criteria for the Slate, and applied it to the iPad.



    No offense. I thought it was a fair method to use.
  • Reply 315 of 433
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    Somebody suggested that VLC would allow iOS devices to play popular codecs. I looked it up, and found that it doesn't work on the vast majority of iOS devices, because iOS is a different OS on different devices.



    I'm kind of used to a world where if you are using the latest version of an OS, software written for the OS will just work. I'm not used to checking which fragment I have, and whether the software is written for my fragment.



    I like it when it just works. I guess I think different.



    I'll pass on the fragment topic for a moment.



    As for VLC, to me, I think there was a lot of hype about it but I think what happened was a separate group from those that work on the desktop versions took the source code and put out the iOS VLC app.
  • Reply 316 of 433
    applappl Posts: 348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    And it has a separate physical keyboard and touchpad -- so you never lose screen real estate for input.



    .



    Yep. The Air seems much better compared to the iPad. It will run real software, for example.



    But it still has insufficient disk space for general purpose use. If you have NAS, and don't mind cooling your heels while stuff downloads, it could be sufficient, however.
  • Reply 317 of 433
    applappl Posts: 348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    If the HP Slate ran a tablet-targeted OS instead of a desktop OS, then I would say it's comparable directly with the iPad. I see what you did with referring to "cellphone OS" and I'm not biting.



    As it is, the HP Slate is comparable to a netbook, at least the way I'm looking at it.



    The HP Slate is not comparable to an iPad other than they both have a "tablet form factor".



    Therein lies perhaps the "mistake" HP has made. They haven't made an iPad competitor, they've made a netbook competitor.



    Fair enough. You categorize by OS, instead of the other aspects.



    I suppose that is one way to do it, but I am not aware that anybody besides you considers that a valid method. Using that method, for example, puts the iPad in the same category as the iPhone.



    So if the OS makes the HP Slate a netbook, then it seems to follow that the OS makes the iPad a cellphone. But I disagree with the premise, so I instead conclude that all tablet computers are in the same category.



    BTW, most of the guys who make a living selling this stuff also categorize these sorts of products together, without grouping them by OS. They instead group them by form factor. As does everybody else I've ever heard or seen who has made such a distinction.



    But please, be consistent. If the HP Slate is in the netbook category due to its OS, then the iPad must be in the cellphone category due to its OS, no?



    And to go deeper, the Slate does NOT run Windows Starter or XP, which are the OSs of choice on Netbooks. Instead, it runs a full version of Windows 7 Home Premium, which AFAIK, is not usually included with netbooks. So the HP diesn't even come with a netbook OS, but instead, a full laptop OS. Is it a laptop?
  • Reply 318 of 433
    applappl Posts: 348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    There's a catch to the free version of OPlayer You'll see... But it's good to test out it's playback functionality.



    As to whether the full version is worth $2.99 or should be free because so many desktop video players are free... I leave to you all to decide.





    Well, we entered into this line of discussion by examining whether the iPad could match the Slate as a consumer oriented media consumption device.



    I pointed out the extra versatility of the Slate, by using the example that it could play all normal codecs, unlike iOS devices. I was corrected, I am told that some versions of iOS will play more codecs if you download additional apps.



    If those Apps are not free, then I think that the Slate wins on this narrow point. But $3 is almost free, so the distinction is admittedly weak. I'll look forward to trying oplayer. If it saves me time, so I don't have to keep converting videos to one of the few codecs that work on my iPhone, I'll use it. I watch very few movies on my iPhone anymore, however, because it is such a PITA to convert the videos. I'm no longer in the habit. Maybe oPlayer will get me back into it? I hope so.



    I might even pay for it. But given the choice of a zillion great free programs for the Slate, or a couple of paid applets available for the iPad, I dunno if the iPad is a compelling choice for me.
  • Reply 319 of 433
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by appl View Post


    Yep. The Air seems much better compared to the iPad. It will run real software, for example.



    But it still has insufficient disk space for general purpose use. If you have NAS, and don't mind cooling your heels while stuff downloads, it could be sufficient, however.



    How do you define "real software"?

    How do you define "general purpose use?"



    The Air and the iPad aren't really relevant to a "which is better" discussion, as they are different devices. The Air is a standalone computer. The iPad is an "appliance". Saying the Air is much better than the iPad is like saying "a motorcycle is much better than a bicycle" (I'm lifting the analogy from this article?the author describes the Slate as the motorcycle, but I think substituting the Air in this case is appropriate). Adding to this the fact that the iPad can be docked to the MBA, in my opinion, negates the whole comparison between the two. For a more geeky analogy, saying the MBA is better than the iPad would be like saying the USS Enterprise is better than one of the shuttles in its shuttle bay.
  • Reply 320 of 433
    applappl Posts: 348member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post


    How do you define "real software"?

    How do you define "general purpose use?"





    Regular computer applications as opposed to cellphone-style applets. Compare, for example, Chrome or IE to the iPhone's browser. I call Chrome "real software" when distinguishing its category from cellphone-style applets.



    General purpose use is the stuff that lots of computer users do. Not niche stuff. Not specialty stuff. Not limited stuff constrained by a weak OS and a cellphone style CPU. Regular computer stuff. That's all I meant.
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