Right, if you do a search for software problems you'll get a lot of hits for anything you can name: Photoshop, Office, Quicken, etc. Don't see anyone talking about their motherboard getting fried, however, which is what you seemed to be suggesting happened.
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The hardware built into mac machines, ie the CPU, GPU, memory is sub standard compared with custom PCs that can be built for the same price. You cannot argue with that.
Yes, you can build a PC for less than a comparable Mac. You can build a PC for less than a vendor assembled PC. It's a weird definition of "substandard", though, when your metric of comparison is "what I can get if I do my own labor." That's like saying a Toyota is built with substandard parts because you can put in nicer suspension bits for less than they charge for an upgrade.
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Mac keyboards are just an annoyance to set up with linux, I can't use my magic mouse with linux. Two proprietary interface devices that I prefer not to use with linux.
Mac keyboards are "proprietary" because you can't map everything you'd like from Linux? So your definition of "standard" is "like a PC"? That's just stupid.
Also, how about those "proprietary" formats that the ecosystem locks you into?
Right, if you do a search for software problems you'll get a lot of hits for anything you can name: Photoshop, Office, Quicken, etc. Don't see anyone talking about their motherboard getting fried, however, which is what you seemed to be suggesting happened.
Yes, you can build a PC for less than a comparable Mac. You can build a PC for less than a vendor assembled PC. It's a weird definition of "substandard", though, when your metric of comparison is "what I can get if I do my own labor." That's like saying a Toyota is built with substandard parts because you can put in nicer suspension bits for less than they charge for an upgrade.
Mac keyboards are "proprietary" because you can't map everything you'd like from Linux? So your definition of "standard" is "like a PC"? That's just stupid.
Also, how about those "proprietary" formats that the ecosystem locks you into?
My argument was justifying why I use a custom pc rather than my fucking waste of space macbook pro for linux, not why pc hardware is better than mac.
OK take away the price element - so disregarding custom pcs, the fact still remains if you want real high performance hardware from apple you can't get it without going for a mac pro.
I think you will find a standard pc keyboard is the de-facto standard layout. Apple just wants to be different. The amount of people that get pissed off from using a PC going to a mac and they keys are different. What is the point in it anyway? You shouldn't have to push two buttons to get a bloody hash key.
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Originally Posted by Hiro
As for buying extra memory or drive capacity. What you say is true for EVERY vendor. One of the things you pay for when you spec up a machine for delivery is the convenience. Always has been and always will be that way. So comparing any produced box, Apple or otherwise, is a ridiculous exercise. Either you want to build it yourself, then none of the manufacturer prices matter. Or you don't and home brew component prices don't matter.
Really? Sub-standard memory? You think the OS knows anything about CAS latencies or ECC ratings? Maybe your problem is the Linux communities difficulties with accepting EFI for the comfort of BIOS rather than the components themselves. So I won't argue, I'll just laugh and walk away. [yes I know Linux can boot on EFI, I also know if the community lost it's fear of it, the EFI boot might not be more than a glorified hack]
Read before, I also run windows 7 on this machine for gaming. Can't do that on a mac.
My argument was justifying why I use a custom pc rather than my fucking waste of space macbook pro for linux, not why pc hardware is better than mac.
Did we just witness another Newtron snap? Whoever you are dude, you need a vacation because you aren't here to participate in anything other than vile bashing. Your goalposts move so quickly I think we can safely categorize them as a new intelligent lifeform.
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OK take away the price element - so disregarding custom pcs, the fact still remains if you want real high performance hardware from apple you can't get it without going for a mac pro.
Duh! You have to call the not tippy top uber-high end stuff
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f***ing waste of space
? Childish. Wanna sucker?
Quote:
I think you will find a standard pc keyboard is the de-facto standard layout. Apple just wants to be different. The amount of people that get pissed off from using a PC going to a mac and they keys are different. What is the point in it anyway? You shouldn't have to push two buttons to get a bloody hash key.
There is no standard key layout. There are 5 "normal" ASCII layouts for the keys surrounding the letter keys without even going to the multitude of function and special purpose key layouts. The only consistent difference is Apple has the Command key where MS likes it's Control key. That's hardly an issue moving between platforms. I think it takes a whole couple minutes to get used to.
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Read before, I also run windows 7 on this machine for gaming. Can't do that on a mac.
Can't run Win7 on a Mac for Win7 only games? False. If you are saying you can't run Win7 games in OS X, I don't think we are ready to create a new Nobel prize for exceptional grasp of the obvious.
Take your shifting broken arguments and bury them elsewhere.
At <$400, there would not be many things you'd like about it.
I doubt we'd have universal accessibility to computers like we do today if the early innovators in this sector believed in setting a floor price on computing technology. Say what you will about the Wintel clan, but one of their greatest achievements is that they made computers universally attainable in a decade and a half. If Apple had one that battle, we'd still all be living in a world where only the rich kid on your street has a computer.
Don't underestimate the value of compromise. Not everybody needs an absolutely blazing machine with the latest and greatest UI and a top-notch UX.
The Tab has a market for it. But I doubt that it's as big as Samsung thinks it is. They screwed up royally with the price. They should have taken the hit on profitability and priced this thing at a maximum of $500. I get that they are trying to build value for their product and don't want to devalue it early. But at that price point, I can't see this thing selling.
But that said, I don't see this thing as a direct iPad competitor. There's a distinct niche that the Tab can fulfill. Where Jobs sees no value in the 7in size, there'd be millions of Kindle owners that might disagree with him. For anybody who wants portability and prizes that aspect over everything else, this would certainly be a perfect device. And let's face it, Apple's not going to put out a smaller iPad....especially after Jobs' comments.
In his review for The New York Times, David Pogue called the new tablet "gorgeous and expensive." Pogue found that the device's diminutive size wasn't a significant issue, preferring to think of it as "like an extra-spacious Android phone" rather than a "cramped iPad." According to Pogue, the smaller size has a "huge" payoff, with the Tab weighing 13 ounces compared to the iPad's 1.5 pounds. Pogue enjoyed the portability of the device, noting that users can carry it in a blazer or jeans pocket.
So its an extra-specious Android phone that you can carry in a blazer or jeans pocket. Right beside the normal sized Android phone that does all the same things. Sounds like a fail to me!
The fact it can fit in your jeans pocket is exactly why this device isn't useful. Its not any different than a smartphone. I'm very cautious on whether or not consumers will find a need for the Tab. I guess we will have to see what the developer community thinks up because in the end its mostly about software.
Did we just witness another Newtron snap? Whoever you are dude, you need a vacation because you aren't here to participate in anything other than vile bashing. Your goalposts move so quickly I think we can safely categorize them as a new intelligent lifeform.
Duh! You have to call the not tippy top uber-high end stuff ? Childish. Wanna sucker?
There is no standard key layout. There are 5 "normal" ASCII layouts for the keys surrounding the letter keys without even going to the multitude of function and special purpose key layouts. The only consistent difference is Apple has the Command key where MS likes it's Control key. That's hardly an issue moving between platforms. I think it takes a whole couple minutes to get used to.
Can't run Win7 on a Mac for Win7 only games? False. If you are saying you can't run Win7 games in OS X, I don't think we are ready to create a new Nobel prize for exceptional grasp of the obvious.
Take your shifting broken arguments and bury them elsewhere.
I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.
With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.
Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.
I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.
With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.
Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.
Newtron was the username of a troll on these forums.
BTW calling people "stupid fan boy" probably isn't a good idea.
I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.
Sure, we can. Here it an argument:
I like OS X. It's great. I'd really like it to be portable, so I'll buy a laptop. I need a decent amount of processing power for my job, so I'll get a MacBook Pro–somewhere in the mid-range. To be compatible with the last few remaining apps that don't work in OS X, I'll install Windows 7 in Boot Camp and use it occasionally with [insert your choice of virtualization here]. I take a lot of flights, so I'd like to be able to play games during the wait. I have games in OS X because Valve, Rockstar, and many other developers are releasing native games, but for those that haven't, I have Windows 7 to play them in. I laugh at people who think I could take a "gaming desktop" on these flights with me, and also that I would find a need for a computer built "entirely" for gaming. That's an unnecessary waste, and I don't care enough to waste my time and money on it.
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With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.
Easy, tiger.
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Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.
Perhaps next time you won't assume that you're smarter than someone else. It's hilarious as all get out, but probably embarrassing for you, and it doesn't help your argument much.
With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.
No. You declared Apple's hardware to be "non-standard", apparently because PC conventions are the "de facto" standard. You suggest that Apple isn't building their machines with PC conventions because they're just being pissy. You claimed that Apple's ecosystem was all about lock-in with "proprietary formats", something you still haven't bothered to support with examples. That's hardly expressing "a personal preference", although it is fairly ignorant.
Oh, and all of this is a huge problem because it interferes with your ability to "enjoy" Linux on the fairly expensive Mac laptop you apparently bought without knowing anything about it.
But then I'm a stupid fanboy so i clearly wouldn't know.
I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.
With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.
Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.
Well I can totally see why you don't think I have responded intelligently. You continue to act like a boorish, lying moron constantly restating your positions to modify them in your latest attempt to dig out of the hole you have dug yourself. And this one isn' just me, I haven't yet seen another post that supports your shifting positions and several others that also take you to task for it. It kind of shows you don't understand what intelligence is.
You reaps what you sows. And your post have only sowed inconsistency, disrespect and absolutism which have been all to visible and easy to counter. You aren't even very good at trolling, no skill whatsoever. When you get so absolute that all the other posters can call you on your shifting fake positions everyone can see the game is over.
It would be interesting to see what manufactured flail you come up with next, but I think we all know it will be a weak position shift and attempted distraction from the facts of your previous posts via more whining. Bye newtron? You certainly act exactly like he did in his last couple days.
No. You declared Apple's hardware to be "non-standard", apparently because PC conventions are the "de facto" standard. You suggest that Apple isn't building their machines with PC conventions because they're just being pissy. You claimed that Apple's ecosystem was all about lock-in with "proprietary formats", something you still haven't bothered to support with examples. That's hardly expressing "a personal preference", although it is fairly ignorant.
Oh, and all of this is a huge problem because it interferes with your ability to "enjoy" Linux on the fairly expensive Mac laptop you apparently bought without knowing anything about it.
But then I'm a stupid fanboy so i clearly wouldn't know.
I bought the macbook pro in 2008, it served me well until I wanted to play games and take advantage of boot camp. I now prefer to use linux. Which I can do on my gaming pc better than a macbook pro.
I can't be bothered to quote the rest of you but let's just say I started this whole discussion about my macbook pro and linux based on personal preference, ie I prefer the hardware of a custom pc because this allows me to run linux and the latest games to their full capacity. This is NOT possible on a macbook pro whether it be my 2008 model or the latest equivalent. Again the argument about keyboards is personal preference. I have not stated that it is not.
Also let me explain what de facto means. It is a standard where that the majority of a market conforms to without it being enforced as a 'de jure' or by law standard. Therefore the mac keyboard layout does not conform to this de facto standard, whereas the standard pc layout does. That is merely an assertion and a reason why I prefer non mac keyboards and why they are easier to use with linux!
Also to the guy that quotes me and refers to using their macbook for gaming at the airport. This is not serious gaming, ie top graphics settings running at full frame rate in the latest games in Windows 7 using the latest direct X. Thus I hear your argument but deny it is a relevant retort to my previous assertion about SERIOUS gamers.
I started this whole discussion about my macbook pro and linux based on personal preference, ie I prefer the hardware of a custom pc because this allows me to run linux and the latest games to their full capacity. This is NOT possible on a macbook pro whether it be my 2008 model or the latest equivalent. Again the argument about keyboards is personal preference. I have not stated that it is not.
This isn't possible on ANY laptop that doesn't cost double what a MacBook Pro costs. High end gaming laptops with specs where you claim them are REALLY expensive. There are lots that claim to be high end, but really aren't. So either you are making things up for or a fool. I vote for fool because you have now transitioned to comparing a hobbyist white-box tower PC built PC to a laptop. Hell the GPU in a high end gaming machine takes enough power to drain a laptop battery in 10 minutes or less so the whole point is foolish to even bring up. It's like DuH! A Porsche 911 cant carry 2500# of bricks like a Dodge Hemi pickup!!! OMG!!!
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Also let me explain what de facto means. It is a standard where that the majority of a market conforms to without it being enforced as a 'de jure' or by law standard.
Nobody is objecting to your definition just this:
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Therefore the mac keyboard layout does not conform to this de facto standard, whereas the standard pc layout does. That is merely an assertion and a reason why I prefer non mac keyboards and why they are easier to use with linux!
just because you can type de facto doesn't make it so.
There are 50+ layouts here. Not all Windows US ASCII, but with so many which all need to be supported by software, and are successfully I think your rantings about Linux not being able to handle a Mac US ASCII layout are pretty pathetic.
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Also to the guy that quotes me and refers to using their macbook for gaming at the airport. This is not serious gaming, ie top graphics settings running at full frame rate in the latest games in Windows 7 using the latest direct X. Thus I hear your argument but deny it is a relevant retort to my previous assertion about SERIOUS gamers.
Your retort is the one that's irrelevant. Again with the impossible comparison. It doesn't work when you complain a two year old laptop can't compete with a current maxed out gaming PC. That's a plain no-shit-Sherlock. Do we need to go back to bricks, pickups and sports cars?
I disagree with Jobs on the size, I really like the 7" size or at least one that is a bit smaller than the current iPad but this Galaxy Tab is not good enough and it's price is way out of proportion.. its not even worth 200 bucks let alone 600! It is a DoA.
Haven't played with one yet (and don't own an iPad), but I'm with you in that I would love a good 7" pad. But this misses the price point, which is funny since everyone's always harping about Apple hardware being overpriced. If someone would put out a 7" pad that did nothing but offer a great net experience and a great interface and responsiveness for $400 I'd get it immediately. No 3rd party apps, no media playing, no camera. Where are all of those? I was at J & R in NYC the other day and played with a bunch of tablets and they all were completely uninspiring.
When was the first real competitor to the iPod released?
When was the first real competitor to the iPhone released?
The first real competitor to the iPod was the Zune OS and Marketplace (not any particular model of Zune in particular), and it has thus far failed miserably. There have not been any viable competitors since. Microsoft, Sony, Philips, Sandisk, Creative, Archos and i.River all produce decent devices, but none provide the whole user experience as well as Apple does, save the Zune HD, which quite simply, didn't have the momentum to succeed.
The first real competitor to the iPhone was the Android OS and the Android Market. It has succeeded as a viable competitor, thanks to its open infrastructure and handset manufacturer and provider-friendly approach.
However, Android's weakness in in its strength. Although the Android approach was attractive to business partners and geeks who like to tinker around, this has come at the huge cost of fragmentation and lack of device integrity. Android truly is the "Windows" of the handset space, complete with both the advantages and the disadvantages that Windows carries over OSX on the desktop.
The obvious competitor to the iPad is an Android-based tablet. However, Android will still have the same disadvantages in the tablet space as it does in the handset space, that being fragmentation, steep user learning curve and poor security.
Sneaking in the background, however, is HP and WebOS. If HP can provide a secure and reliable infrastructure, limit fragmentation, provide a well-integrated software and media store and gain enough momentum at launch, a WebOS tablet could surpass Android as a real iPad competitor. I don't doubt that this is what HP is thinking, and that this is what they are currently working on at what is probably a frantic pace.
In addition, Microsoft should be busy working on adapting WP7 to tablets (and let the ZuneOS die). But they won't. Microsoft are stupid and they still think the best tablet should be one that runs a desktop OS. Destined to fail. You don't slap a cup holder, bucket seats and an automatic transmission on a Vespa.
The Galaxy isn't an iPad alternative. It should never have been released.
We need to wait for Android 3.0 before any meaningful comparison can be made.
So exactly how long after the release of the iPad do we need to wait before a product that can provide a meaningful comparison hits the market?
I'm not sure if that was a serious question or you are baiting in preparation for some retarded rant... I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt!!
As I'm not on the board of directors at Google/Samsung/Asus/Sony etc etc the obvious answer is "I couldn't say for sure".
What I can say with a degree of certainty that the first competitive Android tablet will be released some time after a version of Android that actually works with tablets is available, not before.
If I were to have a guess I would say it's going to take at least 3 months after the release of Android 2.3/3.0 for iPad competitors to arrive and maybe another 3 months or more for the larger screen sizes.
The first real competitor to the iPod was the Zune OS and Marketplace (not any particular model of Zune in particular), and it has thus far failed miserably.
I suppose it depends on how you define "competitor". If you look at it as meaning a viable alternative then the Zune HD makes the cut.
However if you look at it as meaning a product that is "financially competitive" (as in how financially successful it is for the company that created the product) then Zune failed miserably indeed.
Actually I don't think any product comes close to being financially competitive in the same space as the iPod/iPhone/iPad. Apple has been printing money with the iDevice range for years.
I tend to see two products as competing against each other if one is an alternative to the other. Of course that is totally open to interpretation. Some people may think that an iPhone with Kindle is a competitor to a paperback book.
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Originally Posted by tonton
The first real competitor to the iPhone was the Android OS and the Android Market.
Agreed.
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Originally Posted by tonton
Android truly is the "Windows" of the handset space, complete with both the advantages and the disadvantages that Windows carries over OSX on the desktop.
I'm starting to see Android as the Linux of the mobile world. Apple is Apple and Microsoft is Microsoft. That's not to say the market share ratios will play out the same.
Comments
Boot camp on mac is not as straightforward for linux as installing it on a pc.
My boot camp experience and many others by the sounds of it with windows 7: http://www.google.co.uk/search?aq=f&...ursor+bootcamp
Right, if you do a search for software problems you'll get a lot of hits for anything you can name: Photoshop, Office, Quicken, etc. Don't see anyone talking about their motherboard getting fried, however, which is what you seemed to be suggesting happened.
The hardware built into mac machines, ie the CPU, GPU, memory is sub standard compared with custom PCs that can be built for the same price. You cannot argue with that.
Yes, you can build a PC for less than a comparable Mac. You can build a PC for less than a vendor assembled PC. It's a weird definition of "substandard", though, when your metric of comparison is "what I can get if I do my own labor." That's like saying a Toyota is built with substandard parts because you can put in nicer suspension bits for less than they charge for an upgrade.
Mac keyboards are just an annoyance to set up with linux, I can't use my magic mouse with linux. Two proprietary interface devices that I prefer not to use with linux.
Mac keyboards are "proprietary" because you can't map everything you'd like from Linux? So your definition of "standard" is "like a PC"? That's just stupid.
Also, how about those "proprietary" formats that the ecosystem locks you into?
Right, if you do a search for software problems you'll get a lot of hits for anything you can name: Photoshop, Office, Quicken, etc. Don't see anyone talking about their motherboard getting fried, however, which is what you seemed to be suggesting happened.
Yes, you can build a PC for less than a comparable Mac. You can build a PC for less than a vendor assembled PC. It's a weird definition of "substandard", though, when your metric of comparison is "what I can get if I do my own labor." That's like saying a Toyota is built with substandard parts because you can put in nicer suspension bits for less than they charge for an upgrade.
Mac keyboards are "proprietary" because you can't map everything you'd like from Linux? So your definition of "standard" is "like a PC"? That's just stupid.
Also, how about those "proprietary" formats that the ecosystem locks you into?
My argument was justifying why I use a custom pc rather than my fucking waste of space macbook pro for linux, not why pc hardware is better than mac.
OK take away the price element - so disregarding custom pcs, the fact still remains if you want real high performance hardware from apple you can't get it without going for a mac pro.
I think you will find a standard pc keyboard is the de-facto standard layout. Apple just wants to be different. The amount of people that get pissed off from using a PC going to a mac and they keys are different. What is the point in it anyway? You shouldn't have to push two buttons to get a bloody hash key.
As for buying extra memory or drive capacity. What you say is true for EVERY vendor. One of the things you pay for when you spec up a machine for delivery is the convenience. Always has been and always will be that way. So comparing any produced box, Apple or otherwise, is a ridiculous exercise. Either you want to build it yourself, then none of the manufacturer prices matter. Or you don't and home brew component prices don't matter.
Really? Sub-standard memory? You think the OS knows anything about CAS latencies or ECC ratings? Maybe your problem is the Linux communities difficulties with accepting EFI for the comfort of BIOS rather than the components themselves. So I won't argue, I'll just laugh and walk away. [yes I know Linux can boot on EFI, I also know if the community lost it's fear of it, the EFI boot might not be more than a glorified hack]
Read before, I also run windows 7 on this machine for gaming. Can't do that on a mac.
My argument was justifying why I use a custom pc rather than my fucking waste of space macbook pro for linux, not why pc hardware is better than mac.
Did we just witness another Newtron snap? Whoever you are dude, you need a vacation because you aren't here to participate in anything other than vile bashing. Your goalposts move so quickly I think we can safely categorize them as a new intelligent lifeform.
OK take away the price element - so disregarding custom pcs, the fact still remains if you want real high performance hardware from apple you can't get it without going for a mac pro.
Duh! You have to call the not tippy top uber-high end stuff
f***ing waste of space
? Childish. Wanna sucker?
I think you will find a standard pc keyboard is the de-facto standard layout. Apple just wants to be different. The amount of people that get pissed off from using a PC going to a mac and they keys are different. What is the point in it anyway? You shouldn't have to push two buttons to get a bloody hash key.
There is no standard key layout. There are 5 "normal" ASCII layouts for the keys surrounding the letter keys without even going to the multitude of function and special purpose key layouts. The only consistent difference is Apple has the Command key where MS likes it's Control key. That's hardly an issue moving between platforms. I think it takes a whole couple minutes to get used to.
Read before, I also run windows 7 on this machine for gaming. Can't do that on a mac.
Can't run Win7 on a Mac for Win7 only games? False. If you are saying you can't run Win7 games in OS X, I don't think we are ready to create a new Nobel prize for exceptional grasp of the obvious.
Take your shifting broken arguments and bury them elsewhere.
At <$400, there would not be many things you'd like about it.
I doubt we'd have universal accessibility to computers like we do today if the early innovators in this sector believed in setting a floor price on computing technology. Say what you will about the Wintel clan, but one of their greatest achievements is that they made computers universally attainable in a decade and a half. If Apple had one that battle, we'd still all be living in a world where only the rich kid on your street has a computer.
Don't underestimate the value of compromise. Not everybody needs an absolutely blazing machine with the latest and greatest UI and a top-notch UX.
But that said, I don't see this thing as a direct iPad competitor. There's a distinct niche that the Tab can fulfill. Where Jobs sees no value in the 7in size, there'd be millions of Kindle owners that might disagree with him. For anybody who wants portability and prizes that aspect over everything else, this would certainly be a perfect device. And let's face it, Apple's not going to put out a smaller iPad....especially after Jobs' comments.
The New York Times
In his review for The New York Times, David Pogue called the new tablet "gorgeous and expensive." Pogue found that the device's diminutive size wasn't a significant issue, preferring to think of it as "like an extra-spacious Android phone" rather than a "cramped iPad." According to Pogue, the smaller size has a "huge" payoff, with the Tab weighing 13 ounces compared to the iPad's 1.5 pounds. Pogue enjoyed the portability of the device, noting that users can carry it in a blazer or jeans pocket.
So its an extra-specious Android phone that you can carry in a blazer or jeans pocket. Right beside the normal sized Android phone that does all the same things. Sounds like a fail to me!
The fact it can fit in your jeans pocket is exactly why this device isn't useful. Its not any different than a smartphone. I'm very cautious on whether or not consumers will find a need for the Tab. I guess we will have to see what the developer community thinks up because in the end its mostly about software.
Did we just witness another Newtron snap? Whoever you are dude, you need a vacation because you aren't here to participate in anything other than vile bashing. Your goalposts move so quickly I think we can safely categorize them as a new intelligent lifeform.
Duh! You have to call the not tippy top uber-high end stuff ? Childish. Wanna sucker?
There is no standard key layout. There are 5 "normal" ASCII layouts for the keys surrounding the letter keys without even going to the multitude of function and special purpose key layouts. The only consistent difference is Apple has the Command key where MS likes it's Control key. That's hardly an issue moving between platforms. I think it takes a whole couple minutes to get used to.
Can't run Win7 on a Mac for Win7 only games? False. If you are saying you can't run Win7 games in OS X, I don't think we are ready to create a new Nobel prize for exceptional grasp of the obvious.
Take your shifting broken arguments and bury them elsewhere.
I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.
With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.
Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.
I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.
With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.
Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.
Newtron was the username of a troll on these forums.
BTW calling people "stupid fan boy" probably isn't a good idea.
I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.
Sure, we can. Here it an argument:
I like OS X. It's great. I'd really like it to be portable, so I'll buy a laptop. I need a decent amount of processing power for my job, so I'll get a MacBook Pro–somewhere in the mid-range. To be compatible with the last few remaining apps that don't work in OS X, I'll install Windows 7 in Boot Camp and use it occasionally with [insert your choice of virtualization here]. I take a lot of flights, so I'd like to be able to play games during the wait. I have games in OS X because Valve, Rockstar, and many other developers are releasing native games, but for those that haven't, I have Windows 7 to play them in. I laugh at people who think I could take a "gaming desktop" on these flights with me, and also that I would find a need for a computer built "entirely" for gaming. That's an unnecessary waste, and I don't care enough to waste my time and money on it.
With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.
Easy, tiger.
Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.
Perhaps next time you won't assume that you're smarter than someone else. It's hilarious as all get out, but probably embarrassing for you, and it doesn't help your argument much.
With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.
No. You declared Apple's hardware to be "non-standard", apparently because PC conventions are the "de facto" standard. You suggest that Apple isn't building their machines with PC conventions because they're just being pissy. You claimed that Apple's ecosystem was all about lock-in with "proprietary formats", something you still haven't bothered to support with examples. That's hardly expressing "a personal preference", although it is fairly ignorant.
Oh, and all of this is a huge problem because it interferes with your ability to "enjoy" Linux on the fairly expensive Mac laptop you apparently bought without knowing anything about it.
But then I'm a stupid fanboy so i clearly wouldn't know.
I can't see how you have responded intelligently to any of my arguments. No serious gamer is stupid enough to buy a macbook pro and put windows 7 on it to play windows games. They would buy or build a gaming pc for the same price or cheaper and get much better performance! You can't argue with that you stupid fan boy.
With regards to keyboard layout and my magic mouse, I stated that this was a PERSONAL preference but still of course no one is allowed a personal opinion in mac fan boy land.
Oh and what is a "newtron" that is supposed to have snapped? hmmm stop trying to sound intelligent. I am assuming you are getting confused between neuron (the connective cells in the brain) and neutron (a sub atomic particle that is physically impossible to "snap"). For your benefit I will ignore your stupidity on this one.
Well I can totally see why you don't think I have responded intelligently. You continue to act like a boorish, lying moron constantly restating your positions to modify them in your latest attempt to dig out of the hole you have dug yourself. And this one isn' just me, I haven't yet seen another post that supports your shifting positions and several others that also take you to task for it. It kind of shows you don't understand what intelligence is.
You reaps what you sows. And your post have only sowed inconsistency, disrespect and absolutism which have been all to visible and easy to counter. You aren't even very good at trolling, no skill whatsoever. When you get so absolute that all the other posters can call you on your shifting fake positions everyone can see the game is over.
It would be interesting to see what manufactured flail you come up with next, but I think we all know it will be a weak position shift and attempted distraction from the facts of your previous posts via more whining. Bye newtron? You certainly act exactly like he did in his last couple days.
No. You declared Apple's hardware to be "non-standard", apparently because PC conventions are the "de facto" standard. You suggest that Apple isn't building their machines with PC conventions because they're just being pissy. You claimed that Apple's ecosystem was all about lock-in with "proprietary formats", something you still haven't bothered to support with examples. That's hardly expressing "a personal preference", although it is fairly ignorant.
Oh, and all of this is a huge problem because it interferes with your ability to "enjoy" Linux on the fairly expensive Mac laptop you apparently bought without knowing anything about it.
But then I'm a stupid fanboy so i clearly wouldn't know.
I bought the macbook pro in 2008, it served me well until I wanted to play games and take advantage of boot camp. I now prefer to use linux. Which I can do on my gaming pc better than a macbook pro.
I can't be bothered to quote the rest of you but let's just say I started this whole discussion about my macbook pro and linux based on personal preference, ie I prefer the hardware of a custom pc because this allows me to run linux and the latest games to their full capacity. This is NOT possible on a macbook pro whether it be my 2008 model or the latest equivalent. Again the argument about keyboards is personal preference. I have not stated that it is not.
Also let me explain what de facto means. It is a standard where that the majority of a market conforms to without it being enforced as a 'de jure' or by law standard. Therefore the mac keyboard layout does not conform to this de facto standard, whereas the standard pc layout does. That is merely an assertion and a reason why I prefer non mac keyboards and why they are easier to use with linux!
Also to the guy that quotes me and refers to using their macbook for gaming at the airport. This is not serious gaming, ie top graphics settings running at full frame rate in the latest games in Windows 7 using the latest direct X. Thus I hear your argument but deny it is a relevant retort to my previous assertion about SERIOUS gamers.
I started this whole discussion about my macbook pro and linux based on personal preference, ie I prefer the hardware of a custom pc because this allows me to run linux and the latest games to their full capacity. This is NOT possible on a macbook pro whether it be my 2008 model or the latest equivalent. Again the argument about keyboards is personal preference. I have not stated that it is not.
This isn't possible on ANY laptop that doesn't cost double what a MacBook Pro costs. High end gaming laptops with specs where you claim them are REALLY expensive. There are lots that claim to be high end, but really aren't. So either you are making things up for or a fool. I vote for fool because you have now transitioned to comparing a hobbyist white-box tower PC built PC to a laptop. Hell the GPU in a high end gaming machine takes enough power to drain a laptop battery in 10 minutes or less so the whole point is foolish to even bring up. It's like DuH! A Porsche 911 cant carry 2500# of bricks like a Dodge Hemi pickup!!! OMG!!!
Also let me explain what de facto means. It is a standard where that the majority of a market conforms to without it being enforced as a 'de jure' or by law standard.
Nobody is objecting to your definition just this:
Therefore the mac keyboard layout does not conform to this de facto standard, whereas the standard pc layout does. That is merely an assertion and a reason why I prefer non mac keyboards and why they are easier to use with linux!
just because you can type de facto doesn't make it so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout
There are 50+ layouts here. Not all Windows US ASCII, but with so many which all need to be supported by software, and are successfully I think your rantings about Linux not being able to handle a Mac US ASCII layout are pretty pathetic.
Also to the guy that quotes me and refers to using their macbook for gaming at the airport. This is not serious gaming, ie top graphics settings running at full frame rate in the latest games in Windows 7 using the latest direct X. Thus I hear your argument but deny it is a relevant retort to my previous assertion about SERIOUS gamers.
Your retort is the one that's irrelevant. Again with the impossible comparison. It doesn't work when you complain a two year old laptop can't compete with a current maxed out gaming PC. That's a plain no-shit-Sherlock. Do we need to go back to bricks, pickups and sports cars?
The Galaxy isn't an iPad alternative. It should never have been released.
We need to wait for Android 3.0 before any meaningful comparison can be made.
So exactly how long after the release of the iPad do we need to wait before a product that can provide a meaningful comparison hits the market?
So exactly how long after the release of the iPad do we need to wait before a product that can provide a meaningful comparison hits the market?
When was the first real competitor to the iPod released?
When was the first real competitor to the iPhone released?
So exactly how long after the release of the iPad do we need to wait before a product that can provide a meaningful comparison hits the market?
Half a year... son.
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
I disagree with Jobs on the size, I really like the 7" size or at least one that is a bit smaller than the current iPad but this Galaxy Tab is not good enough and it's price is way out of proportion.. its not even worth 200 bucks let alone 600! It is a DoA.
Haven't played with one yet (and don't own an iPad), but I'm with you in that I would love a good 7" pad. But this misses the price point, which is funny since everyone's always harping about Apple hardware being overpriced. If someone would put out a 7" pad that did nothing but offer a great net experience and a great interface and responsiveness for $400 I'd get it immediately. No 3rd party apps, no media playing, no camera. Where are all of those? I was at J & R in NYC the other day and played with a bunch of tablets and they all were completely uninspiring.
When was the first real competitor to the iPod released?
When was the first real competitor to the iPhone released?
The first real competitor to the iPod was the Zune OS and Marketplace (not any particular model of Zune in particular), and it has thus far failed miserably. There have not been any viable competitors since. Microsoft, Sony, Philips, Sandisk, Creative, Archos and i.River all produce decent devices, but none provide the whole user experience as well as Apple does, save the Zune HD, which quite simply, didn't have the momentum to succeed.
The first real competitor to the iPhone was the Android OS and the Android Market. It has succeeded as a viable competitor, thanks to its open infrastructure and handset manufacturer and provider-friendly approach.
However, Android's weakness in in its strength. Although the Android approach was attractive to business partners and geeks who like to tinker around, this has come at the huge cost of fragmentation and lack of device integrity. Android truly is the "Windows" of the handset space, complete with both the advantages and the disadvantages that Windows carries over OSX on the desktop.
The obvious competitor to the iPad is an Android-based tablet. However, Android will still have the same disadvantages in the tablet space as it does in the handset space, that being fragmentation, steep user learning curve and poor security.
Sneaking in the background, however, is HP and WebOS. If HP can provide a secure and reliable infrastructure, limit fragmentation, provide a well-integrated software and media store and gain enough momentum at launch, a WebOS tablet could surpass Android as a real iPad competitor. I don't doubt that this is what HP is thinking, and that this is what they are currently working on at what is probably a frantic pace.
In addition, Microsoft should be busy working on adapting WP7 to tablets (and let the ZuneOS die). But they won't. Microsoft are stupid and they still think the best tablet should be one that runs a desktop OS. Destined to fail. You don't slap a cup holder, bucket seats and an automatic transmission on a Vespa.
The Galaxy isn't an iPad alternative. It should never have been released.
We need to wait for Android 3.0 before any meaningful comparison can be made.
So exactly how long after the release of the iPad do we need to wait before a product that can provide a meaningful comparison hits the market?
I'm not sure if that was a serious question or you are baiting in preparation for some retarded rant... I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt!!
As I'm not on the board of directors at Google/Samsung/Asus/Sony etc etc the obvious answer is "I couldn't say for sure".
What I can say with a degree of certainty that the first competitive Android tablet will be released some time after a version of Android that actually works with tablets is available, not before.
If I were to have a guess I would say it's going to take at least 3 months after the release of Android 2.3/3.0 for iPad competitors to arrive and maybe another 3 months or more for the larger screen sizes.
The first real competitor to the iPod was the Zune OS and Marketplace (not any particular model of Zune in particular), and it has thus far failed miserably.
I suppose it depends on how you define "competitor". If you look at it as meaning a viable alternative then the Zune HD makes the cut.
However if you look at it as meaning a product that is "financially competitive" (as in how financially successful it is for the company that created the product) then Zune failed miserably indeed.
Actually I don't think any product comes close to being financially competitive in the same space as the iPod/iPhone/iPad. Apple has been printing money with the iDevice range for years.
I tend to see two products as competing against each other if one is an alternative to the other. Of course that is totally open to interpretation. Some people may think that an iPhone with Kindle is a competitor to a paperback book.
The first real competitor to the iPhone was the Android OS and the Android Market.
Agreed.
Android truly is the "Windows" of the handset space, complete with both the advantages and the disadvantages that Windows carries over OSX on the desktop.
I'm starting to see Android as the Linux of the mobile world. Apple is Apple and Microsoft is Microsoft. That's not to say the market share ratios will play out the same.