The only way to increase competition is --- to increase the number of carriers.
Simlocking laws don't work, outlawing exclusivity doesn't work, and giving away 3G licenses on the cheap doesn't work.
UK has pretty much the cheapest iphone plans in industrialized Europe --- this is a country that allows simlocking, allows iphone exclusivity and had the most expensive 3G auction on the planet.
My. You are still looking at isolated examples as if they were the rule of land. You have been proven wrong on so many counts that, well..
Your basic premise is correct, but fails to see the whole picture. In many places legistation is in place to protect the consumer from corporations that have a dominating position that they can use to stifle competition.
For some odd reason, the general prices of subscriptions are lowest in places where there are many consumer procting laws in place and unlocked phones are the norm. How do you explain that?
Giving licences on the "reasonable" does work if done right. Auctions when done wrong like the euro auctions in the UK and GErmany were done, doesn't work either. They never filled thei goals. Plenty of studies on that as well.
I work for a telecoms provider in the UK and, merely speaking from my experience of the systems currently in use (MNP for porting mobile numbers) I believe this would be tricky to implement.
Currently, if I have a number active on a SIM it exists on my operators billing system and HLR. If someone trying to activate my number on another SIM it'd fail because they don't own the number. Currently I would have to get a PAC to change provider.
At the moment the provider has 48 hours to give this code but this will soon change to 2 hours. Even if my SIM was capable of potentially connecting to any UK network, using current practices I'd have to transfer the number with a PAC. If I was in contract I'd pay a termination fee.
For the people talking about Apple managing it with a menu or something that displays the available networks...that doesn't really fit in with current systems, as Apple would still follow the same process...disconnect on network A, connect on network B. Apple couldn't request termination of a contract on behalf of a customer of most, if not all, carriers require the contract holder to make such a request.
I see no reason for the carrier to care as there's no difference. They sell a network locked handset with subsidy and an 18 month/24 month contract. At the end they unlock the phone. OR, they sell unlocked, full price PAYG. PAYG is seen as low value anyway as the revenue isn't guaranteed.
Unless there is a full rework of the porting system it's not going to be as convenient as it potentially could be. Also, in terms in creating a new account with a new provider, there'd have to be a system created to apply for service on the phone, that's linked to credit agencies etc and you get a yes or no.
As for going abroad, I don't think it'd be possible as you'd have to get a new number for the foreign network as different countries have different numbers. UK numbers start 07 and have 11 digits and this number couldn't port to a foreign network at the moment. so you'd need a new number in whatever country you're in. You couldn't get a contract there as there is no credit history etc so it'd be PAYG only.
If there are major changes then potentially this could be a really good system. A fair few years off I believe. Not the embedded SIM idea per sé but certainly the easy switch of provider.
Cheers.
David
I think you're fixating too much on the notion that each of the "virtual SIMs" you might keep inside this phone must each use the same mobile phone number. I don't see that case at all. I look at more like a virtual wallet of multiple SIMs, each of them active on a different mobile network, domestic or foreign, and each of them with a different mobile phone number.
Maybe, they could even come up with a secure, trustworthy, and exploitation-resistant means to "beam" the SIM data from one subscriber's phone to another phone (or from an automated "virtual SIM card" vending machine to a phone), effectively deleting the SIM card from the original phone's virtual SIM wallet at the same time as it inserts the card into the recipient phone's virtual wallet, to allow for hotswapping just the same as you already can between any two unlocked phones today.
Obviously, the act of hotswapping SIM cards, today, doesn't do anything to relieve you from your obligation to continue paying the swapped-out mobile carrier its agreed-upon monthly tariffs, or else pay an early termination fee if that option is available to you. This wouldn't be any different if you hotswapped "virtual SIMs" in a world of virtualized SIM cards.
We're talking about unlocked phones here. Period. Your first point is irrelevant in this context.
So your friend who wants to borrow your phone to make an urgent call just checks his phone for the numbe... oh, wait.
Well if you have a iphone 4 that comes with a micro sim slot and your friend's dead battery phone has a regular size sim card --- you can't do anything anyway, even when your iphone 4 is unlocked.
He can dial 411 telephone directory on your phone to find out the telephone number or he can use your iphone 4's web browser to go to the internet to find the telephone number.
No, they are actually more profitable than any of the US carriers. NO LOCKING is the way to go. Embedded SIMS take locking and move it to another level. Double-lock. Locked into one carrier AND locked into one handset, instead of just being locked into one carrier. Greeeat!
Superman Li's son tried to privatize PCCW (unsuccessfully) because the stock was so low --- that showed you how profitable these companies are. Go and read their actual financial filings --- Hong Kong public disclosure rules are garbage. All these carriers aren't doing that well.
You can't BS me --- I am a Hong Kong born Canadian.
In fact, many of Superman Li's Hutchison 3 empire around the world has been losing money --- often deliberately. He bought high at the peak of the market bubble in 2000, he can't sell it, he can't IPO it (he tried unsuccessfully with 3 Italia) --- so what does he try to do? He starts all sorts of price wars to force the other carriers to buy his carrier. And he was only half successful in Australia where he was able to partially cash out by merging Hutchison 3 Australia with Vodafone Australia.
That step, however, could cost Apple. Bienenstock estimated that Apple?s global iPhone sales could take a 12 percent hit if European carriers made good on their threats to drop subsidies for the handset.
If Apple takes a 12% hit, the carriers will take an even bigger hit. Keep in mind that while the carriers subsidize the phone they also make money, perhaps less but thats business.
Usually the Volume and extras in each contract make up for subsidizing the phone.
My. You are still looking at isolated examples as if they were the rule of land. You have been proven wrong on so many counts that, well..
Your basic premise is correct, but fails to see the whole picture. In many places legistation is in place to protect the consumer from corporations that have a dominating position that they can use to stifle competition.
For some odd reason, the general prices of subscriptions are lowest in places where there are many consumer procting laws in place and unlocked phones are the norm. How do you explain that?
Giving licences on the "reasonable" does work if done right. Auctions when done wrong like the euro auctions in the UK and GErmany were done, doesn't work either. They never filled thei goals. Plenty of studies on that as well.
These are not isolated examples at all --- for the first time in history, ordinary people like you and me can obtain a fairly accurate comparison by just looking at iphone plans.
You don't even give examples --- you just claimed that you're right.
How is UK auction done wrong --- when they have the cheapest iphone in the G7? The UK government got plenty of cash and Brits got cheap mobile tariff.
There is no done right or done wrong --- these aren't abstract theoretical exercises. We live in an imperfect world --- and you know what? The American system may not be perfect, but it works a lot better than the rest of the world. NOBODY ever whispered "3G beauty contest" anymore --- it's been totally discredited. Go look at your neighbor in Sweden. This is why the whole EU has been talking about their long term goal of moving towards "bill and keep" American style mobile termination rate.
If Apple takes a 12% hit, the carriers will take an even bigger hit. Keep in mind that while the carriers subsidize the phone they also make money, perhaps less but thats business.
Usually the Volume and extras in each contract make up for subsidizing the phone.
The problem is that Apple stocks already account for that growth --- Apple share price drops like a rock if there is no "one more thing".
It is almost impossible to buy SIM cards without identification, due to terrorists using them as fuses in bombs.
Governments around the world have cracked down quite hard on this.
You buy a SIM it still has to be registered which usually involves being linked to a person who can prove their identity..
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton
1. Thought so. What if I don't want to give my name, credit card number, expiry date, security code, and home address to yet another phone company? And isn't this a hell of a lot more work than going into 7-11 and giving them a few dollars for a SIM? Again, they are taking away my freedom to do that.
It all fits in 64k, so say you set aside 64MB of memory (which isn't much in today's world) you'd have more than enough room, (given that most of the 64 or 128k memory of SIM cards is used for the phonebook) for a thousand virtual SIMS, which would cover basically every phone network on earth.
Now we're talking baby, a phone that has the potential to be linked to several thousand numbers, switched on and off at will and as easy to set up as supplying a code of some sort, some ID and some cash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen
Well the main problem is the Authentication key (Ki). This information is stored in a non-readable part of the SIM (or USIM for 3G) and the HLR. This is NEVER transmitted outside the SIM card. This is also used for authenticating the user and calculating the ciphering keys. All of this calculation occurs on the SIM card itself.
To copy the card contents, you'd have to change the whole premise of GSM and 3G security (the SIM is a virtual safe).
The operator maps the IMSI of the subscriber to the subscription and thus the actual phone number. So if you lose your SIM, the operator assigns you a new IMSI (and SIM-card). The IMSI is your true phone number and identity in the network. The dialed phone number is just mapped to this IMSI code at the operator's HLR.
If you can make an automated system to change this mapping at the operator's HLR immediately on user request, then an embedded SIM system would work without changing the security basis of GSM and WCDMA
It is almost impossible to buy SIM cards without identification, due to terrorists using them as fuses in bombs.
Governments around the world have cracked down quite hard on this.
You buy a SIM it still has to be registered which usually involves being linked to a person who can prove their identity..
I really think you live in an Amereurocentric world and have no real idea about what governments "around the world" -- at least in my part of the world -- are cracking down on. Hell, I travelled to Thailand in July and they were handing out free SIMs at the airport with free minutes in them, ready to use. Thaliland. I guess there are no terrorists there...
For many years, mobile phone service in Thailand was sold anonymously, through the use of pre-paid SIM cards that consumers could purchase in stores.[51] However, the recent terrorism has led government officials to retract that anonymity, creating new avenues for potential abuse of mobile phone customer data and a loss of privacy in that marketplace.
Many of the terrorist acts in the South have involved homemade bombs set off by mobile phones modified to trigger the explosions.[52] This led government officials to propose requiring SIM card purchasers to show identification. The first report that such an idea was being considered was on April 5, 2005.[53] Only 13 days later, with almost no intervening debate in the media, the major telecommunications organizations and agencies such as ICT held a meeting, the result of which was a sudden announcement that SIM card purchasers would need to present identification.[54] The plan was passed by agreement among the parties; no legislation was involved.[55] Several individuals have expressed their support for this program as a step forward in preventing terrorist acts,[56] and a poll taken contemporaneous to the agreement found that the people generally supported it.[57]
However, substantial criticism of the proposed plan has come from all sides. ICT Minister Suvit Khunkitti worried that mere identification of SIM card buyers wouldn't stop terrorists who could use "several communications tools. . . to set off explosions."[58] Others noted that fake ID cards could easily be used,[59] or SIM cards could be illegally bought or brought from neighboring countries,[60] so the plan would ultimately fail. Several decried the invasion of privacy inherent in the plan,[61] some going so far as to suggest that ICT had "ulterior motives" to misuse the personal information.[62]
I really think you live in an Amereurocentric world and have no real idea about what governments "around the world" -- at least in my part of the world -- are cracking down on. Hell, I travelled to Thailand in July and they were handing out free SIMs at the airport with free minutes in them, ready to use. Thaliland. I guess there are no terrorists there...
It is almost impossible to buy SIM cards without identification, due to terrorists using them as fuses in bombs.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Quote:
Governments around the world have cracked down quite hard on this.
Not in Ireland. Everyone else, feel free to continue adding countries to this list.
Quote:
You buy a SIM it still has to be registered which usually involves being linked to a person who can prove their identity..
Or, you know, you're given a free SIM card with a little bit of credit on it as part of a promotion and they have absolutely no idea who you are or that you'll soon be taking it to the U.S. and racking up data charges for free while roaming on an American network.
What? That's what I do. O2 Ireland SIM in my Day One 2007 U.S. iPhone.
Not in Ireland. Everyone else, feel free to continue adding countries to this list.
Or, you know, you're given a free SIM card with a little bit of credit on it as part of a promotion and they have absolutely no idea who you are or that you'll soon be taking it to the U.S. and racking up data charges for free while roaming on an American network.
What? That's what I do. O2 Ireland SIM in my Day One 2007 U.S. iPhone.
You can pick up a Bell SIM card at any supermarket checkout aisle in Canada, pay cash, no questions asked. Same goes for a blister packed prepaid cell phone from any of Canada's major carriers, either SIM-included or CDMA-based, at any Walmart electronics department.
When activating a Virgin Mobile Canada prepaid phone over the Internet, which is the only brand of prepaid that I've actually activated recently, they don't appear to do anything to actually verify the authenticity of the information I provide in the online form. Now, when I activated a postpaid account, they took more steps to verify my identity and credit worthiness. But that's probably due more to their vested interest in being able to identify me just in case me account goes in arrears and they need to collect my debt.
1. Thought so. What if I don't want to give my name, credit card number, expiry date, security code, and home address to yet another phone company? And isn't this a hell of a lot more work than going into 7-11 and giving them a few dollars for a SIM? Again, they are taking away my freedom to do that.
Well, the most seamless solution is that you pay via iTunes and there's no need for sending any of that.
The more annoying solution is to use a virtual pre-paid credit card like from paypal.
Quote:
2. So you have to pay first, i.e. give them your life story and credit history. Yeah... that's not infringing on my privacy at all... And while travelling? So if I travel to say... PRC, where there is more corruption and white collar crime than pretty much anywhere in the world, I'm supposed to give someone I have no trust in my credit card number, home address... so on and so forth?
Or you can use the two options above...
Quote:
Embedded SIM is a bad idea.
Meh. You lose some flexibility in some areas and gain it in others.
Quote:
Here's another scenario:
My friend's phone runs out of battery. He needs to make an urgent call. I pop out my SIM and he pops his in, and makes his call on his dollar. How do I do that with an embedded SIM?
Well, you could just let him make an urgent call and pay you back later or buy you a beer. Are you so tight on minutes it really matters? Who really gives a shit about this scenario? My wife has asked strangers to borrow their cell to call me when her phone is dead (and they've let her) so you're going to worry about a buddy borrowing your phone? Get real.
So where are all the usual European suspects who come in and post how they can change SIM cards whenever they want and pay 2? for billions of GB of data for tethering to their laptops at phenomenal speeds everywhere they go and unlimited calls because Europe is oh, so much better than America and networks there allow freedom to do what you want backed up by the EU.
Don't worry, Google will step in with Android to pick up the slack and put things back the way they were, for the carriers.
Well for the most part Europe is better than the US in terms of celluar "stuff" however the operators realize that they are nothing more than just big pipes and well they do not like the term even if it is true. They also realize that they are a self licking ice cream cone and are marginalizing each other with pricing and tariff wars. Now Sonera have dropped unlimited data but offers 3 gigs or something like that for 11 dollars (equivalent in Euros) a month but they do not police it. If you go over, you go over and they do not say anything. The data speeds are now up to 15 Mbps for most operators and subscribers are switching left and right because the prices are so cheap. Apple just poked the operators in the eye (rightfully so) and they, the operators, don't like it. They'll get over it.
UK has pretty much the cheapest iphone plans in industrialized Europe --- this is a country that allows simlocking, allows iphone exclusivity and had the most expensive 3G auction on the planet.
I don't know. Sonera is pretty cheap, coming in at ?31 for a bunch of minutes, SMS and data. I thought Germany had the most expensive auction, but you might for once be correct.
By the way, the cheapest unlocked iPhones that I know of are in Finland offered by Elisa. If you can purchase it via a business, it is even cheaper.
Carriers in Europe are threatening to cut subsidies if Apple releases an iPhone with an embedded SIM card, a new report claims.
In October, reports emerged claiming that Apple has been working with Gemalto to develop an open SIM for integration into the iPhone. An embedded SIM card could allow customers to choose between competing carriers and activate service right from the Apple Store.
I believe embedded SIM card will somehow prevent us from handing our iPhones of previous generations to our nieces, nephews and godchildren. No good, Apple.
I believe embedded SIM card will somehow prevent us from handing our iPhones of previous generations to our nieces, nephews and godchildren. No good, Apple.
That really depends on how transparent they make the sign-up procedure. Done right, it could be no more onerous to change carrier settings by downloading a standardized set of information through a standardized interface into an embedded SIM, than it currently is to physically swap SIM cards. We just don't know enough yet about the proposed implementation to be able to properly judge for ourselves.
Comments
The only way to increase competition is --- to increase the number of carriers.
Simlocking laws don't work, outlawing exclusivity doesn't work, and giving away 3G licenses on the cheap doesn't work.
UK has pretty much the cheapest iphone plans in industrialized Europe --- this is a country that allows simlocking, allows iphone exclusivity and had the most expensive 3G auction on the planet.
My. You are still looking at isolated examples as if they were the rule of land. You have been proven wrong on so many counts that, well..
Your basic premise is correct, but fails to see the whole picture. In many places legistation is in place to protect the consumer from corporations that have a dominating position that they can use to stifle competition.
For some odd reason, the general prices of subscriptions are lowest in places where there are many consumer procting laws in place and unlocked phones are the norm. How do you explain that?
Giving licences on the "reasonable" does work if done right. Auctions when done wrong like the euro auctions in the UK and GErmany were done, doesn't work either. They never filled thei goals. Plenty of studies on that as well.
I work for a telecoms provider in the UK and, merely speaking from my experience of the systems currently in use (MNP for porting mobile numbers) I believe this would be tricky to implement.
Currently, if I have a number active on a SIM it exists on my operators billing system and HLR. If someone trying to activate my number on another SIM it'd fail because they don't own the number. Currently I would have to get a PAC to change provider.
At the moment the provider has 48 hours to give this code but this will soon change to 2 hours. Even if my SIM was capable of potentially connecting to any UK network, using current practices I'd have to transfer the number with a PAC. If I was in contract I'd pay a termination fee.
For the people talking about Apple managing it with a menu or something that displays the available networks...that doesn't really fit in with current systems, as Apple would still follow the same process...disconnect on network A, connect on network B. Apple couldn't request termination of a contract on behalf of a customer of most, if not all, carriers require the contract holder to make such a request.
I see no reason for the carrier to care as there's no difference. They sell a network locked handset with subsidy and an 18 month/24 month contract. At the end they unlock the phone. OR, they sell unlocked, full price PAYG. PAYG is seen as low value anyway as the revenue isn't guaranteed.
Unless there is a full rework of the porting system it's not going to be as convenient as it potentially could be. Also, in terms in creating a new account with a new provider, there'd have to be a system created to apply for service on the phone, that's linked to credit agencies etc and you get a yes or no.
As for going abroad, I don't think it'd be possible as you'd have to get a new number for the foreign network as different countries have different numbers. UK numbers start 07 and have 11 digits and this number couldn't port to a foreign network at the moment. so you'd need a new number in whatever country you're in. You couldn't get a contract there as there is no credit history etc so it'd be PAYG only.
If there are major changes then potentially this could be a really good system. A fair few years off I believe. Not the embedded SIM idea per sé but certainly the easy switch of provider.
Cheers.
David
I think you're fixating too much on the notion that each of the "virtual SIMs" you might keep inside this phone must each use the same mobile phone number. I don't see that case at all. I look at more like a virtual wallet of multiple SIMs, each of them active on a different mobile network, domestic or foreign, and each of them with a different mobile phone number.
Maybe, they could even come up with a secure, trustworthy, and exploitation-resistant means to "beam" the SIM data from one subscriber's phone to another phone (or from an automated "virtual SIM card" vending machine to a phone), effectively deleting the SIM card from the original phone's virtual SIM wallet at the same time as it inserts the card into the recipient phone's virtual wallet, to allow for hotswapping just the same as you already can between any two unlocked phones today.
Obviously, the act of hotswapping SIM cards, today, doesn't do anything to relieve you from your obligation to continue paying the swapped-out mobile carrier its agreed-upon monthly tariffs, or else pay an early termination fee if that option is available to you. This wouldn't be any different if you hotswapped "virtual SIMs" in a world of virtualized SIM cards.
We're talking about unlocked phones here. Period. Your first point is irrelevant in this context.
So your friend who wants to borrow your phone to make an urgent call just checks his phone for the numbe... oh, wait.
Well if you have a iphone 4 that comes with a micro sim slot and your friend's dead battery phone has a regular size sim card --- you can't do anything anyway, even when your iphone 4 is unlocked.
He can dial 411 telephone directory on your phone to find out the telephone number or he can use your iphone 4's web browser to go to the internet to find the telephone number.
So all those carriers are losing money...
No, they are actually more profitable than any of the US carriers. NO LOCKING is the way to go. Embedded SIMS take locking and move it to another level. Double-lock. Locked into one carrier AND locked into one handset, instead of just being locked into one carrier. Greeeat!
Superman Li's son tried to privatize PCCW (unsuccessfully) because the stock was so low --- that showed you how profitable these companies are. Go and read their actual financial filings --- Hong Kong public disclosure rules are garbage. All these carriers aren't doing that well.
You can't BS me --- I am a Hong Kong born Canadian.
In fact, many of Superman Li's Hutchison 3 empire around the world has been losing money --- often deliberately. He bought high at the peak of the market bubble in 2000, he can't sell it, he can't IPO it (he tried unsuccessfully with 3 Italia) --- so what does he try to do? He starts all sorts of price wars to force the other carriers to buy his carrier. And he was only half successful in Australia where he was able to partially cash out by merging Hutchison 3 Australia with Vodafone Australia.
That step, however, could cost Apple. Bienenstock estimated that Apple?s global iPhone sales could take a 12 percent hit if European carriers made good on their threats to drop subsidies for the handset.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
If Apple takes a 12% hit, the carriers will take an even bigger hit. Keep in mind that while the carriers subsidize the phone they also make money, perhaps less but thats business.
Usually the Volume and extras in each contract make up for subsidizing the phone.
My. You are still looking at isolated examples as if they were the rule of land. You have been proven wrong on so many counts that, well..
Your basic premise is correct, but fails to see the whole picture. In many places legistation is in place to protect the consumer from corporations that have a dominating position that they can use to stifle competition.
For some odd reason, the general prices of subscriptions are lowest in places where there are many consumer procting laws in place and unlocked phones are the norm. How do you explain that?
Giving licences on the "reasonable" does work if done right. Auctions when done wrong like the euro auctions in the UK and GErmany were done, doesn't work either. They never filled thei goals. Plenty of studies on that as well.
These are not isolated examples at all --- for the first time in history, ordinary people like you and me can obtain a fairly accurate comparison by just looking at iphone plans.
You don't even give examples --- you just claimed that you're right.
How is UK auction done wrong --- when they have the cheapest iphone in the G7? The UK government got plenty of cash and Brits got cheap mobile tariff.
There is no done right or done wrong --- these aren't abstract theoretical exercises. We live in an imperfect world --- and you know what? The American system may not be perfect, but it works a lot better than the rest of the world. NOBODY ever whispered "3G beauty contest" anymore --- it's been totally discredited. Go look at your neighbor in Sweden. This is why the whole EU has been talking about their long term goal of moving towards "bill and keep" American style mobile termination rate.
If Apple takes a 12% hit, the carriers will take an even bigger hit. Keep in mind that while the carriers subsidize the phone they also make money, perhaps less but thats business.
Usually the Volume and extras in each contract make up for subsidizing the phone.
The problem is that Apple stocks already account for that growth --- Apple share price drops like a rock if there is no "one more thing".
Governments around the world have cracked down quite hard on this.
You buy a SIM it still has to be registered which usually involves being linked to a person who can prove their identity..
1. Thought so. What if I don't want to give my name, credit card number, expiry date, security code, and home address to yet another phone company? And isn't this a hell of a lot more work than going into 7-11 and giving them a few dollars for a SIM? Again, they are taking away my freedom to do that.
Now we're talking baby, a phone that has the potential to be linked to several thousand numbers, switched on and off at will and as easy to set up as supplying a code of some sort, some ID and some cash.
Well the main problem is the Authentication key (Ki). This information is stored in a non-readable part of the SIM (or USIM for 3G) and the HLR. This is NEVER transmitted outside the SIM card. This is also used for authenticating the user and calculating the ciphering keys. All of this calculation occurs on the SIM card itself.
To copy the card contents, you'd have to change the whole premise of GSM and 3G security (the SIM is a virtual safe).
The operator maps the IMSI of the subscriber to the subscription and thus the actual phone number. So if you lose your SIM, the operator assigns you a new IMSI (and SIM-card). The IMSI is your true phone number and identity in the network. The dialed phone number is just mapped to this IMSI code at the operator's HLR.
If you can make an automated system to change this mapping at the operator's HLR immediately on user request, then an embedded SIM system would work without changing the security basis of GSM and WCDMA
Regs, Jarkko
It is almost impossible to buy SIM cards without identification, due to terrorists using them as fuses in bombs.
Governments around the world have cracked down quite hard on this.
You buy a SIM it still has to be registered which usually involves being linked to a person who can prove their identity..
I really think you live in an Amereurocentric world and have no real idea about what governments "around the world" -- at least in my part of the world -- are cracking down on. Hell, I travelled to Thailand in July and they were handing out free SIMs at the airport with free minutes in them, ready to use. Thaliland. I guess there are no terrorists there...
Thailand
The Mobile Phone Card Controversy
For many years, mobile phone service in Thailand was sold anonymously, through the use of pre-paid SIM cards that consumers could purchase in stores.[51] However, the recent terrorism has led government officials to retract that anonymity, creating new avenues for potential abuse of mobile phone customer data and a loss of privacy in that marketplace.
Many of the terrorist acts in the South have involved homemade bombs set off by mobile phones modified to trigger the explosions.[52] This led government officials to propose requiring SIM card purchasers to show identification. The first report that such an idea was being considered was on April 5, 2005.[53] Only 13 days later, with almost no intervening debate in the media, the major telecommunications organizations and agencies such as ICT held a meeting, the result of which was a sudden announcement that SIM card purchasers would need to present identification.[54] The plan was passed by agreement among the parties; no legislation was involved.[55] Several individuals have expressed their support for this program as a step forward in preventing terrorist acts,[56] and a poll taken contemporaneous to the agreement found that the people generally supported it.[57]
However, substantial criticism of the proposed plan has come from all sides. ICT Minister Suvit Khunkitti worried that mere identification of SIM card buyers wouldn't stop terrorists who could use "several communications tools. . . to set off explosions."[58] Others noted that fake ID cards could easily be used,[59] or SIM cards could be illegally bought or brought from neighboring countries,[60] so the plan would ultimately fail. Several decried the invasion of privacy inherent in the plan,[61] some going so far as to suggest that ICT had "ulterior motives" to misuse the personal information.[62]
Source.
I really think you live in an Amereurocentric world and have no real idea about what governments "around the world" -- at least in my part of the world -- are cracking down on. Hell, I travelled to Thailand in July and they were handing out free SIMs at the airport with free minutes in them, ready to use. Thaliland. I guess there are no terrorists there...
It is almost impossible to buy SIM cards without identification, due to terrorists using them as fuses in bombs.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Governments around the world have cracked down quite hard on this.
Not in Ireland. Everyone else, feel free to continue adding countries to this list.
You buy a SIM it still has to be registered which usually involves being linked to a person who can prove their identity..
Or, you know, you're given a free SIM card with a little bit of credit on it as part of a promotion and they have absolutely no idea who you are or that you'll soon be taking it to the U.S. and racking up data charges for free while roaming on an American network.
What? That's what I do. O2 Ireland SIM in my Day One 2007 U.S. iPhone.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Not in Ireland. Everyone else, feel free to continue adding countries to this list.
Or, you know, you're given a free SIM card with a little bit of credit on it as part of a promotion and they have absolutely no idea who you are or that you'll soon be taking it to the U.S. and racking up data charges for free while roaming on an American network.
What? That's what I do. O2 Ireland SIM in my Day One 2007 U.S. iPhone.
You can pick up a Bell SIM card at any supermarket checkout aisle in Canada, pay cash, no questions asked. Same goes for a blister packed prepaid cell phone from any of Canada's major carriers, either SIM-included or CDMA-based, at any Walmart electronics department.
When activating a Virgin Mobile Canada prepaid phone over the Internet, which is the only brand of prepaid that I've actually activated recently, they don't appear to do anything to actually verify the authenticity of the information I provide in the online form. Now, when I activated a postpaid account, they took more steps to verify my identity and credit worthiness. But that's probably due more to their vested interest in being able to identify me just in case me account goes in arrears and they need to collect my debt.
1. Thought so. What if I don't want to give my name, credit card number, expiry date, security code, and home address to yet another phone company? And isn't this a hell of a lot more work than going into 7-11 and giving them a few dollars for a SIM? Again, they are taking away my freedom to do that.
Well, the most seamless solution is that you pay via iTunes and there's no need for sending any of that.
The more annoying solution is to use a virtual pre-paid credit card like from paypal.
2. So you have to pay first, i.e. give them your life story and credit history. Yeah... that's not infringing on my privacy at all...
Or you can use the two options above...
Embedded SIM is a bad idea.
Meh. You lose some flexibility in some areas and gain it in others.
Here's another scenario:
My friend's phone runs out of battery. He needs to make an urgent call. I pop out my SIM and he pops his in, and makes his call on his dollar. How do I do that with an embedded SIM?
Well, you could just let him make an urgent call and pay you back later or buy you a beer. Are you so tight on minutes it really matters? Who really gives a shit about this scenario? My wife has asked strangers to borrow their cell to call me when her phone is dead (and they've let her) so you're going to worry about a buddy borrowing your phone? Get real.
So where are all the usual European suspects who come in and post how they can change SIM cards whenever they want and pay 2? for billions of GB of data for tethering to their laptops at phenomenal speeds everywhere they go and unlimited calls because Europe is oh, so much better than America and networks there allow freedom to do what you want backed up by the EU.
Don't worry, Google will step in with Android to pick up the slack and put things back the way they were, for the carriers.
Well for the most part Europe is better than the US in terms of celluar "stuff" however the operators realize that they are nothing more than just big pipes and well they do not like the term even if it is true. They also realize that they are a self licking ice cream cone and are marginalizing each other with pricing and tariff wars. Now Sonera have dropped unlimited data but offers 3 gigs or something like that for 11 dollars (equivalent in Euros) a month but they do not police it. If you go over, you go over and they do not say anything. The data speeds are now up to 15 Mbps for most operators and subscribers are switching left and right because the prices are so cheap. Apple just poked the operators in the eye (rightfully so) and they, the operators, don't like it. They'll get over it.
UK has pretty much the cheapest iphone plans in industrialized Europe --- this is a country that allows simlocking, allows iphone exclusivity and had the most expensive 3G auction on the planet.
I don't know. Sonera is pretty cheap, coming in at ?31 for a bunch of minutes, SMS and data. I thought Germany had the most expensive auction, but you might for once be correct.
By the way, the cheapest unlocked iPhones that I know of are in Finland offered by Elisa. If you can purchase it via a business, it is even cheaper.
It is almost impossible to buy SIM cards without identification, due to terrorists using them as fuses in bombs.
Governments around the world have cracked down quite hard on this.
You buy a SIM it still has to be registered which usually involves being linked to a person who can prove their identity..
You can buy a SIM card in NZ without any ID and use it without registering
Carriers in Europe are threatening to cut subsidies if Apple releases an iPhone with an embedded SIM card, a new report claims.
In October, reports emerged claiming that Apple has been working with Gemalto to develop an open SIM for integration into the iPhone. An embedded SIM card could allow customers to choose between competing carriers and activate service right from the Apple Store.
I believe embedded SIM card will somehow prevent us from handing our iPhones of previous generations to our nieces, nephews and godchildren. No good, Apple.
I believe embedded SIM card will somehow prevent us from handing our iPhones of previous generations to our nieces, nephews and godchildren. No good, Apple.
That really depends on how transparent they make the sign-up procedure. Done right, it could be no more onerous to change carrier settings by downloading a standardized set of information through a standardized interface into an embedded SIM, than it currently is to physically swap SIM cards. We just don't know enough yet about the proposed implementation to be able to properly judge for ourselves.