Not saying that they didn't. I'm just saying that anything that Google adds to their phone is a copy of Apple according to some people. I own a Droid X, and I truly don't see how it's like an iPhone other "looking like it" with the touchscreen. The software is completely different. They're different phones with different features. Which is why I'll be getting a Verizon iPhone as soon as my contract expires.
But nobody said that. As best as I can make out, you were responding to the assertion that there would be no successful Android phones without the iPhone; I think it's hard to ignore the fact that the entire smartphone segment would likely still be the limited niche that it was before the iPhone if not for the iPhone, because Apple demonstrated to the larger market what it took to make a smartphone that the general public might want to use.
Yes, now that Apple has (again) established the template, others can come in and use the basic format to make interesting products. But, again, I don't see were anyone in this thread was arguing otherwise.
Guys, I have a simple question. What is it about Android makes it an iphone clone? Seriously.
Edit I saw the pics above. But that's not the only form factors that were out at the time. Even the pic that Daniel posted has windows phones with a large touch screen and slide out keyboard.
The first Android phone had a slide out screen and keyboard. And while it can be said that they ditched the BB format, that doesn't mean they were not planning other form factors before the iphone.
The first Android phone had a slide out screen and keyboard. And while it can be said that they ditched the BB format, that doesn't mean they were not planning other form factors before the iphone.
Why don't you post a picture for us here for this slide out screen and keyboard. And what evidence did you have to believe "that doesn't mean they were not planning.."?
Obviously Android has copied the iPhone, but you would have to believe Steve Jobs was pretty stupid to let Schmidt "spy" on Apple's board.
Do you know anything about corporate governance? When Schmidt was on the Apple board, there were no competing products. It was apparently only after Creepy Eric saw the toys Apple was building that he decided to get in on some of that action, ethics be damned, and put his guys to work copy the iPhone design and touch-based OS. He also seems to have had his team lift the programming language from a previous employer, at least according to a lawsuit by Oracle.
For reference, usually Boards of Directors actually attempt to honor their fiduciary duties to the corporations they represent. This could make a great case study demonstrating why that model is flawed.
Why don't you post a picture for us here for this slide out screen and keyboard. And what evidence did you have to believe "that doesn't mean they were not planning.."?
It's a logical fallacy to assume that just because there is no pic of that form factor that Google/Android wasn't planning to have that form factor.
And even if they did, that would have been copying HTC or WinMob from before, not Apple. Their UI also does not follow Apple's page of apps either. If there is anyone who always copies others that would be Samsung, with their TouchWiz skin.
You want to say that they (and others) copied their multi touch gesture? Sure, I'll buy that.
Obviously Android has copied the iPhone, but you would have to believe Steve Jobs was pretty stupid to let Schmidt "spy" on Apple's board.
Seriously, what do board members do all day? Watch their R & D departments work on toys or do business matters?
If he really had inside access the G1 would have been much more advanced and debut earlier than it did. All I see is Google taking the Danger dev group and putting their money and time behind it to make it more than a messaging phone.
Do you know anything about corporate governance? When Schmidt was on the Apple board, there were no competing products. It was apparently only after Creepy Eric saw the toys Apple was building that he decided to get in on some of that action, ethics be damned, and put his guys to work copy the iPhone design and touch-based OS. He also seems to have had his team lift the programming language from a previous employer, at least according to a lawsuit by Oracle.
True. But Apple was surely aware that Google had acquired Danger a year earlier. Some could argue that Apple should have read the tea leaves.
True. But Apple was surely aware that Google had acquired Danger a year earlier. Some could argue that Apple should have read the tea leaves.
Dunno. Maybe he expected Schmidt/Google to develop their own approach and not clone the work Apple had done? Like I said, fiduciary duty.
Frankly, I've never figured out why Apple legal didn't try to sue Schmidt back to the stone age for that. No matter, Google has a much more formidable foe in Larry Ellison in the Java lawsuit.
My guess is that the exposure Schmidt created for Google from that move is probably what got him bounced out of the CEO gig. But what was he going to do otherwise, actually have Google invent their own development language?
Perhaps I'm being too simplistic but I think the reason for the change is obvious: Google would like to make peace with Apple, and that's never gonna happen with Schmidt calling the shots. Yeah business is business, and perhaps Jobs and Schmidt do have coffee once in a while, but Steve is never gonna forget how an Apple board member betrayed him.
Not simplistic at all. Years ago, Disney & Pixar had gone their separate ways because then-Disney CEO Michael Eisner was an even bigger ego than Steve Jobs and refused to deal fairly with Pixar. Then came the shareholder "revolt" against Eisner, led by Roy E. Disney, and the result: Eisner was pushed into an "early retirement", new CEO Robert Iger immediately made a fair offer for Pixar, and Steve Jobs is now the largest single shareholder of Disney.
My guess is that the exposure Schmidt created for Google from that move is probably what got him bounced out of the CEO gig. But what was he going to do otherwise, actually have Google invent their own development language?
I agree with this.
Realistically, this changes little. Google is already too far down the path to step back from Android. I guess they could back down on the Chrome OS.
It's a logical fallacy to assume that just because there is no pic of that form factor that Google/Android wasn't planning to have that form factor.
No, it's a logical fallacy to assume that, in a world of smartphones that looked just like the prototype Android, Gooogle actually intended to follow the iPhone template and just hadn't gotten around to it.
Quote:
And even if they did, that would have been copying HTC or WinMob from before, not Apple. Their UI also does not follow Apple's page of apps either. If there is anyone who always copies others that would be Samsung, with their TouchWiz skin.
Yes, because there were quite a few successful smartphones that eschewed buttons and keyboards in favor of a single, monolithic touchscreen pre-iPhone?
Quote:
You want to say that they (and others) copied their multi touch gesture? Sure, I'll buy that.
It's just a stone fact that before the iPhone most smartphones looked like the Android prototype, and afterwards they mostly look like the iPhone. You can claim that's coincidence, or the inevitable workings of progress, or whatever makes you feel better. But you can't pretend it didn't happen-- we all actually live in the world and have eyes.
Comments
Not saying that they didn't. I'm just saying that anything that Google adds to their phone is a copy of Apple according to some people. I own a Droid X, and I truly don't see how it's like an iPhone other "looking like it" with the touchscreen. The software is completely different. They're different phones with different features. Which is why I'll be getting a Verizon iPhone as soon as my contract expires.
But nobody said that. As best as I can make out, you were responding to the assertion that there would be no successful Android phones without the iPhone; I think it's hard to ignore the fact that the entire smartphone segment would likely still be the limited niche that it was before the iPhone if not for the iPhone, because Apple demonstrated to the larger market what it took to make a smartphone that the general public might want to use.
Yes, now that Apple has (again) established the template, others can come in and use the basic format to make interesting products. But, again, I don't see were anyone in this thread was arguing otherwise.
I think we've found ourselves another teckstud!
I was thinking it was actually ...been on my ban list a while now.
Edit I saw the pics above. But that's not the only form factors that were out at the time. Even the pic that Daniel posted has windows phones with a large touch screen and slide out keyboard.
The first Android phone had a slide out screen and keyboard. And while it can be said that they ditched the BB format, that doesn't mean they were not planning other form factors before the iphone.
I thought you thought markets weren't often terribly rational, but sentiment-driven?
So, what would be your point?
That the sentiment sucks.
Now that Schmidt can't spy on Apple as a member of Apple's Board of Directors, his value to Google is a lot less.
Dammit, I wanted to say that.
That the sentiment sucks.
So, is that good or bad for Google?
They should give Schmidt an award for outstanding achievement in the field of excellence and then have him retire.
Or send him to Siberia.
This kind of stuff usually happens in threes - guess Ballmer is next to go
That'll be the day. MS's board of directors is loaded with pinheads.
The first Android phone had a slide out screen and keyboard. And while it can be said that they ditched the BB format, that doesn't mean they were not planning other form factors before the iphone.
Why don't you post a picture for us here for this slide out screen and keyboard. And what evidence did you have to believe "that doesn't mean they were not planning.."?
Now that Schmidt can't spy on Apple as a member of Apple's Board of Directors, his value to Google is a lot less.
Obviously Android has copied the iPhone, but you would have to believe Steve Jobs was pretty stupid to let Schmidt "spy" on Apple's board.
Obviously Android has copied the iPhone, but you would have to believe Steve Jobs was pretty stupid to let Schmidt "spy" on Apple's board.
Do you know anything about corporate governance? When Schmidt was on the Apple board, there were no competing products. It was apparently only after Creepy Eric saw the toys Apple was building that he decided to get in on some of that action, ethics be damned, and put his guys to work copy the iPhone design and touch-based OS. He also seems to have had his team lift the programming language from a previous employer, at least according to a lawsuit by Oracle.
For reference, usually Boards of Directors actually attempt to honor their fiduciary duties to the corporations they represent. This could make a great case study demonstrating why that model is flawed.
Why don't you post a picture for us here for this slide out screen and keyboard. And what evidence did you have to believe "that doesn't mean they were not planning.."?
It's a logical fallacy to assume that just because there is no pic of that form factor that Google/Android wasn't planning to have that form factor.
And even if they did, that would have been copying HTC or WinMob from before, not Apple. Their UI also does not follow Apple's page of apps either. If there is anyone who always copies others that would be Samsung, with their TouchWiz skin.
You want to say that they (and others) copied their multi touch gesture? Sure, I'll buy that.
Obviously Android has copied the iPhone, but you would have to believe Steve Jobs was pretty stupid to let Schmidt "spy" on Apple's board.
Seriously, what do board members do all day? Watch their R & D departments work on toys or do business matters?
If he really had inside access the G1 would have been much more advanced and debut earlier than it did. All I see is Google taking the Danger dev group and putting their money and time behind it to make it more than a messaging phone.
Do you know anything about corporate governance? When Schmidt was on the Apple board, there were no competing products. It was apparently only after Creepy Eric saw the toys Apple was building that he decided to get in on some of that action, ethics be damned, and put his guys to work copy the iPhone design and touch-based OS. He also seems to have had his team lift the programming language from a previous employer, at least according to a lawsuit by Oracle.
True. But Apple was surely aware that Google had acquired Danger a year earlier. Some could argue that Apple should have read the tea leaves.
True. But Apple was surely aware that Google had acquired Danger a year earlier. Some could argue that Apple should have read the tea leaves.
Dunno. Maybe he expected Schmidt/Google to develop their own approach and not clone the work Apple had done? Like I said, fiduciary duty.
Frankly, I've never figured out why Apple legal didn't try to sue Schmidt back to the stone age for that. No matter, Google has a much more formidable foe in Larry Ellison in the Java lawsuit.
My guess is that the exposure Schmidt created for Google from that move is probably what got him bounced out of the CEO gig. But what was he going to do otherwise, actually have Google invent their own development language?
Perhaps I'm being too simplistic but I think the reason for the change is obvious: Google would like to make peace with Apple, and that's never gonna happen with Schmidt calling the shots. Yeah business is business, and perhaps Jobs and Schmidt do have coffee once in a while, but Steve is never gonna forget how an Apple board member betrayed him.
Not simplistic at all. Years ago, Disney & Pixar had gone their separate ways because then-Disney CEO Michael Eisner was an even bigger ego than Steve Jobs and refused to deal fairly with Pixar. Then came the shareholder "revolt" against Eisner, led by Roy E. Disney, and the result: Eisner was pushed into an "early retirement", new CEO Robert Iger immediately made a fair offer for Pixar, and Steve Jobs is now the largest single shareholder of Disney.
My guess is that the exposure Schmidt created for Google from that move is probably what got him bounced out of the CEO gig. But what was he going to do otherwise, actually have Google invent their own development language?
I agree with this.
Realistically, this changes little. Google is already too far down the path to step back from Android. I guess they could back down on the Chrome OS.
The obvious reason for the shakeup: anyone here check out the new Youtube re-design???
It's a logical fallacy to assume that just because there is no pic of that form factor that Google/Android wasn't planning to have that form factor.
No, it's a logical fallacy to assume that, in a world of smartphones that looked just like the prototype Android, Gooogle actually intended to follow the iPhone template and just hadn't gotten around to it.
And even if they did, that would have been copying HTC or WinMob from before, not Apple. Their UI also does not follow Apple's page of apps either. If there is anyone who always copies others that would be Samsung, with their TouchWiz skin.
Yes, because there were quite a few successful smartphones that eschewed buttons and keyboards in favor of a single, monolithic touchscreen pre-iPhone?
You want to say that they (and others) copied their multi touch gesture? Sure, I'll buy that.
It's just a stone fact that before the iPhone most smartphones looked like the Android prototype, and afterwards they mostly look like the iPhone. You can claim that's coincidence, or the inevitable workings of progress, or whatever makes you feel better. But you can't pretend it didn't happen-- we all actually live in the world and have eyes.