I think Apple's own marketing slogan for the MacBook Air says it all: 'The next generation of MacBooks'...
For me, the new MacBook Air represented some clever thinking by Apple (outwith the actual product design itself).
Apple is continuing to move away from third party industry standard components which they have to buy in and which to a large degree force their hand from a product design perspective, and toward Apple designed components produced for them by third parties which have already been tied into 'massive advanced orders at knockdown prices' agreements.
Apple have pre-ordered both LCD panels and flash/RAM in massive quantities, and I believe that the new MacBook Air is the first generation of MacOS hardware to benefit from these deals. Apple has ditched industry standard SO-DIMMs and 2.5" drives in favour of their own components, thereby allowing them greater flexibility from a product design perspective and also allowing them realise some massive savings. Dell still has to buy their components off-the-shelf at contemporary prices.
The price point of the new MacBook Air was significantly lower than I was expecting, and in particular I didn't expect to see SSDs of that capacity, and LCDs of that quality at that price point. How many other products at that price point have that battery life, SSD capacity and an LED backlit screen of that quality? That's before we even get into MacOS vs. Windows!
What if Apple were to resist the temptation to price-gouge (a break from historical data I know) and instead choose to compete where their competitors simply can't compete? They no longer have to buy in hard disk drive and optical drive mechanisms from third parties who don't have Apple's own buying power. Applications and content can now simply be downloaded from Apple's own digital stores directly to flash components and LCD panels which were pre-ordered years ago. No PC World. No Seagate.
There's nothing to stop Apple producing a next-generation MacBook Pro with both 16GB of RAM soldered onto the motherboard and one of their 512GB SSD stick drives at a price that their competitors simply couldn't get anywhere near.
I guess the next step is for Apple to enter into similar 'pay-up-front' deals with Intel and Nvidia/ATI, or simply expand their own 'A' processor developments...
...ultimately Apple want to reduce their cost base and cut-out the middle men. Devices like the iPad and the new MacBook Air are the clearest examples of this business model. Apple are making the content consumption devices and making a cut on the content itself ? all without having to pay a cut to middle men.
Smart business. Yeah, I think it's clear what the next generation of MacBooks will look like!
Yeah I think its time for them to get rid of some models. They have too much overlap going on, not enough clarity.
The new MBA is clearly working. Consumers don't need or want disc drives, and if they do they have some options.
Too many different overlapping 13" models at around the $1100 price point. You have a 13" model in each category, MB, MBA and MBP. I think the holiday quarter where they all existed simultaneously was the test run, who was buying what and why. They couldn't simplify before now because they couldn't be sure how people would take to the new MBA models. Now they know.
I say it's time to retire the vanilla macbook. It is no longer relevant, Apple would do better by focusing on and improving the MBA as its entry level notebook line. They don't even offer a blackbook model anymore, what's the point of this model now?
Get rid of the 13" MBP. Again too much overlap and not enough clarity. Besides the 13" MBP is hardly pro enough for most people's tastes, its just a compromised MBP missing some of the higher end features. They made this model because people missed their baby powerbooks, well the 11" MBA takes care of that category quite nicely.
Reduce the 6 models to 4. They would have 11 and 13" MBA, and 15 and 17" MBP. Very clear and distinct models that would allow Apple to focus and innovate better. We know Apple operates best when they have fewer models that they can focus on and really make each one best of breed. I don't want to see them wasting their time or ours with 13" macbook or MBP models that probably aren't selling well anyway, at least compared to the MBA.
Yeah I think its time for them to get rid of some models. They have too much overlap going on, not enough clarity.
Where did that idea come from? Walk into any Apple store and take one look and you should realize that there is very little overlap. The plastic Mac Book isn't well positioned these days but that can be addressed by going after the low cost market , that is build a $5-600 laptop. In fact I'd have to say that each model line is fairly well positioned these days.
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The new MBA is clearly working. Consumers don't need or want disc drives, and if they do they have some options.
AIRs are great for people that where already in the market for a netbook sized laptop that performs well. However I have to dismiss your comments about disks or storage. Storage is something many consummers want.
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Too many different overlapping 13" models at around the $1100 price point. You have a 13" model in each category, MB, MBA and MBP.
You must be a small guy because you are too focused on size. There is very little actual overlap going on with the 13" models. Honestly look at the spec sheets and the other factors.
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I think the holiday quarter where they all existed simultaneously was the test run, who was buying what and why. They couldn't simplify before now because they couldn't be sure how people would take to the new MBA models. Now they know.
Sales of current AIR models means nothing. It has barely been 90 days which means early adopter sales and pent up demand.
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I say it's time to retire the vanilla macbook. It is no longer relevant, Apple would do better by focusing on and improving the MBA as its entry level notebook line. They don't even offer a blackbook model anymore, what's the point of this model now?
Sorry but $1000 is not entry level for a low end notebook. Apple really needs a lowend notebook somewher around $5-600. Like it or not that would be entry level.
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Get rid of the 13" MBP. Again too much overlap and not enough clarity.
BS, not even worth discussing beyond that.
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Besides the 13" MBP is hardly pro enough for most people's tastes, its just a compromised MBP missing some of the higher end features. They made this model because people missed their baby powerbooks, well the 11" MBA takes care of that category quite nicely.
Then make it more pro like.
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Reduce the 6 models to 4. They would have 11 and 13" MBA, and 15 and 17" MBP. Very clear and distinct models that would allow Apple to focus and innovate better. We know Apple operates best when they have fewer models that they can focus on and really make each one best of breed. I don't want to see them wasting their time or ours with 13" macbook or MBP models that probably aren't selling well anyway, at least compared to the MBA.
nope just the opposite, they need more portable hardware.
I would love to see Apple offfer up a rigged laptop or two. Somthing like the Toughbooks. That is a laptop designed to handle the abuse of field work. I'd be the first to admit that Mac Laptops are more durable than normal but durable isn't rugged.
Now with Apples current approach to machine construction, that is CNCing the chassis out of a block of Aluminum, it shouldn't be that difficult to build a beefed up chassis. What you would be looking at is a stronger bottom cover plus a lid that protects the screen better. Possible a screen made of Gorrilla glass. A few changes may be required to the internals also. In the end the goal is a laptop that can take more aggressive use than the current models.
Now I realize that many will say something to the effect of "ugly" or that the market is to small but I don't buy it. First; ugly is in the eye of the beholder and this market cares more about devices that put out rather than look good. Admittedly the market is small but then that hasn't stopped big companies like Panasonic from playing there. In any event I see it as a valid opportunity for Apple.
Beyond that Apple needs to implement laptops with built in 3G/4G support. I'm not sure why the AIRs didn't get this as they are the models most likely to be used on the go where a cell connection would be valuable. I'd actually like to see this as a feature of current models but would settle for additional models. Whatever they do though it needs a card slot and it needs to be unlocked so that one can use the platform anywhere at reasonable rates.
These are two examples where Apple could fill out their current line up of laptops. I'm sure others could come up with other needs that might be profitable for Apple to fill. Whatever, the last thing they need to do is to make the line up more limited. Laptops are still hot so they need to pay attention there.
Walk into any Apple store and take one look and you should realize that there is very little overlap.
Walk into any Apple store and you'll quickly realize the iOS tables are far more busy than the MacOS tables.
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The plastic Mac Book isn't well positioned these days but that can be addressed by going after the low cost market , that is build a $5-600 laptop.
Apple already did this, the Apple way, with the iPad. Now you want them to make a notebook to compete with the iPad? Just... ugh.
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AIRs are great for people that where already in the market for a netbook sized laptop that performs well. However I have to dismiss your comments about disks or storage. Storage is something many consummers want.
Clearly false, as evidenced by both MBA and iPad sales.
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You must be a small guy because you are too focused on size.
5'11" is small? I suppose if you're 6'2".
Seriously though, below the belt. No need to make it personal... friendo.
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There is very little actual overlap going on with the 13" models. Honestly look at the spec sheets and the other factors.
Disagree once again. There's alot of overlap, as in, they're all priced about the same and they're all 13", yet only one of them is actually popular.
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Sales of current AIR models means nothing. It has barely been 90 days which means early adopter sales and pent up demand.
Maybe. But how long does Apple need to sit on its hands before it should make this decision?
The rest of what you say is just more of the same.
Look, I provided my opinion of what I think Apple ought to do with their highly confusing, overlapping and unnecessary 13" models: simplify them. At least one of them is not needed, but I think they could get rid of 2 and instead just have one really good 13" model. I happen to think the 13" MBA provides the blueprint. Real pro people will always want the 15 and 17" models anyway. No need to pretend like the 13" MBP is actually pro.
I also think what I'm saying falls in line with the way Apple thinks and their own statements. They have often said they prefer to simplify, streamline, and focus on fewer models. They make better products that way. Their words not mine. Right now they have 6 sizes or types of macbook with 3 of them being 13" models, even though they each have different enclosures and innards. In the case of 2 of them, for almost no good reason.
They don't need more models. How many model of cell phone did they need to dominate the industry? 1. How many iPods? At it's height, 4. 6 macbook types? They don't sell enough macbooks to justify that, and its not helping them.
You don't have to agree with what I'm saying, but don't trash me personally or act like I'm saying something far out there. Apple makes it clear the way they think and I think I'm interpreting the intentions correctly.
The $3.9B deal is with three vendors, not one, that can mean anything in terms of parts, flash chips could be one part of the deal, then there's hirez displays, batteries, whatever...
Surely some of the MBA features will found their way to other notebooks: the lack of DVD, solid-state storage, hirez displays, tapered design, multi-part batteries,... but that doesn't mean those new notebooks will be much, much thinner (you still need big batteries to power regular voltage cpus and dedicated graphics). The MBA solid-state blades look to be less expensive than the SSDs used in other Macs, so I expect some notebooks to get 128/256GB blades in the future, probably up to 512GB this year. 1TB SSD/blades from Apple? Probably not before 2012 at a reasonable price.
Rumors about a 15" MBA have existed for a long time (since the launch of the original MBA), if released (as a MBA in 2011) it will certainly not have a "powerful" SB cpu, dedicated gpu and 1TB of solid-state storage. LV cpu, very efficient gpu (probably integrated), 128/256GB blade, $1799?
As far as the "delay" perceived of the new MBPs, let's not forget that mainstream mobile SB cpus (dual-core i5 and i7) are not avaialable yet. February 20. So a march release is probably the best we can expect.
If there's one Mac that needs a redesign ASAP, it's the 13" MBP. Even if people seem to like it very much. In fact, Apple should keep it as the new alu MacBook for 2011 at $999/1199 (white MB EOL'd) and create a brand new 13" MBP using some features from the MBA as described above.
$1499 13" MacBook Pro, 1440*900, SB Core i5, dGPU, 4GB RAM, 128GB blade, 2.5" HDD/SSD bay, no ODD
Mjteix,
I didn't realise that mainstream SB mobile CPUs weren't coming until February. That being the case, you must be right about a March release date.
Pardon my ignorance, but I thought that the Intel/Nvidia deal was exactly about Intel being able to use Nvida's GPUs in its processors. Whatever the future holds for this partnership, I'd be interested to know what GPU/GPU combination you think Apple will offer in its i5 and i7 line-up. It doesn't look like Apple will use Intel's own on-board GPUS but instead choose a third-party one.
I think you're right about the 13" MacBook Pro needing to be redesigned. I'd like it to offer exactly the same functionality/ performance advantages of the 15" MacBook Pro but in a 13" case. The difference should only be size not performance. Many power users, yours truly included, just don't want to lug around a heavy 15" slab. Of course, as soon as you junk the on-board DVD drive, the 13" MBP overlaps all the more with the 13" MacBook Air. Standard SSDs would be great, but 128 Gb just isn't enough. It'll need to have 256 Gb min with 512 Gb as a BTO option.
Without doubt, however, 13" is a sweet-spot for Apple's laptops. They combine decent screen size with low weight. A 15" MBA would offer the same advantage, but it might have enough extra room to accommodate a SB processor? Whatever it Apple offers, it can't afford to get it wrong. To me, this suggests greater future choice not less.
What I can't make-up my mind about is whether the MBP line-up will get a redesign now or at the next refresh.
What I can't make-up my mind about is whether the MBP line-up will get a redesign now or at the next refresh.
We have not heard a word about this from any one. It's all just a guess. In the past, AI or MacRumors, or 9 to 5 Mac, or even Gruber would have some tidbit of info on a redesign. But nothing. So that inclines me to think that it's just going to be the Sandy Bridge update with perhaps the flash storage from the Air.
The present unibody configuration is about 2-3 years depending upon the model...perhaps a thinner lighter update coming. Retinal or high resolution display for next MBP....maybe 3D. Similar SSD configuration as in MBA except higher capacity...256 - 512 GB. Still see optical drive since photo and video pro's will want to burn dvd/cd's for distribution and storage of photos and videos. 17" hopefully will keep its Express Card/34 slot. Not sure if it is feasible to have a liquid metal cast unibody? Casting cheaper that milling a body from a solid block.
Displays across 13 and 15" MBP lines get bumped up in resolution. 13" becomes 1440x900, 15" becomes 1680x1050.
New GPU for models with Dedi GPUs...probably AMD Mobility Radeon 5600 or 6600 series. The amounts of VRAM will probably be doubled; low end models with 512 MB, higher end models get 1 GB.
New SB processors will round out the update.
I have no idea what will become of the baseline MB...I've been suspecting that MBA will ultimately replace it.
sorry to bring this thread back, but a friend of mine recently spilled water over my 2007 mbp, causing everything to die (power won't even turn on anymore).
i was already ready to purchase a new mbp 15in due to sandy bridge release, hoping it would come out soon, but now i am in desperate need of a new computer.
with the current mbp specs with core i7 2.8 processor and 256gb ssd, 4gm of ram (buying the 8gb upgrade from newegg instead of from apple website), will i see an obvious difference in speed with the same specs of the upcoming mbp15in with the sandy bridge motherboard? hoping the current nvidia included graphics is at least comparable and not so much different in the recent mobile graphics processors that may be installed in the new mbp.
im a regular college student, and i'd at least like to run crysis 2 (when out) and diablo 3 at very high settings.
sorry to bring this thread back, but a friend of mine recently spilled water over my 2007 mbp, causing everything to die (power won't even turn on anymore).
I hope you don't have to many friends like that. He better compensate you at least a little bit even if that simply means sharing a PC.
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i was already ready to purchase a new mbp 15in due to sandy bridge release, hoping it would come out soon, but now i am in desperate need of a new computer.
This really hurts because as a college student you can't wait more than a few days. You might not have a choice.
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with the current mbp specs with core i7 2.8 processor and 256gb ssd, 4gm of ram (buying the 8gb upgrade from newegg instead of from apple website), will i see an obvious difference in speed with the same specs of the upcoming mbp15in with the sandy bridge motherboard?
The difference could be anywhere from minor to very significant. It depends upon your software usage. In some cases Sandy Bridge will be very fast.
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hoping the current nvidia included graphics is at least comparable and not so much different in the recent mobile graphics processors that may be installed in the new mbp.
Most likely they will go ATI/AMD even if they don't the possibility is for a huge speed up. It is not like MBP are bleeding edge graphics machines as it is.
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im a regular college student, and i'd at least like to run crysis 2 (when out) and diablo 3 at very high settings.
There is no such thing as a regular college student. Since we don't know your major we can only comment on gaming. In that regard the coming machines are likely to have stronger GPU performance.
It actually sucks that you are in a bind here. Of course you already know this and it has to be even worst to realize that new MBP are probably a month or two away. The only other thing to do besides buying now is to find a temporary solution. It could be a couple of months before the MBPs are available.
I hope you don't have to many friends like that. He better compensate you at least a little bit even if that simply means sharing a PC.
This really hurts because as a college student you can't wait more than a few days. You might not have a choice.
The difference could be anywhere from minor to very significant. It depends upon your software usage. In some cases Sandy Bridge will be very fast.
Most likely they will go ATI/AMD even if they don't the possibility is for a huge speed up. It is not like MBP are bleeding edge graphics machines as it is.
There is no such thing as a regular college student. Since we don't know your major we can only comment on gaming. In that regard the coming machines are likely to have stronger GPU performance.
It actually sucks that you are in a bind here. Of course you already know this and it has to be even worst to realize that new MBP are probably a month or two away. The only other thing to do besides buying now is to find a temporary solution. It could be a couple of months before the MBPs are available.
actually, computer problem is solved with the old drying with rice trick. luckily im asian and have uncooked rice available. thanks! lets continue with the waiting of mbp!
Don't hold your breath. I remember when the first MacBook Air arrived, people were expecting a new MacBook Pro to follow almost immediately after. It took almost a year. I don't expect any kind of redesign until October 2011 at the earliest. In short, the next revision will in all likelihood be no more than a speed bump with a tasty Sandy Bridge filling and the DVD drive still sandwiched between the keyboard and battery.
If there is a major change this time round, however, it will be SSD. I certainly think that is a step in the right direction. (The improved screen resolution is a given.)
I have been in the market for a new Macbook for about 6 months now, but I am happy to wait until April. I know that the Macbook Pro cycle is 208 days, and we are at 288 now. Frankly, I would like to see Apple move to a yearly product cycle in all of their channels. That way I know exactly when an update is coming and can plan accordingly.
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Originally Posted by herbapou
With the price tags on mac's, anything still having core2duo cpu need
to be refresh asap.
Apple need to stay below 2x price tags compare to same specs in the pc world. Core2duo macs are above 2x with some models being 4 times more expensive than pc's with same specs. Thats insane.
I don't like the specs game, and I think we should move past it. Don't get me wrong, I used to be very guilty of it. Specs in the "pc world' are a joke though. Apple has spent 35 years building a software and hardware ecosystem that proves computing is about way more than mhz and gigaflops. The pc world is constantly updating systems with relatively marginal improvements, releasing laptop models like HP's "Pavillion DMZ1" series to the "DM3Z" series. There is no innovation, just a change in model numbers every month to drive sales. What a joke. I'm worried pc hardware manufactures are actually going to run out of number/letter combinations.
There is nothing worst than being forced to upgrade when you aren't ready.
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Originally Posted by blueeddie
actually, computer problem is solved with the old drying with rice trick. luckily im asian and have uncooked rice available. thanks! lets continue with the waiting of mbp!
Hey now, I'm not Asian yet I have rice in the house. It's been sitting there for ages but that is another matter.
By the way, run out and by a disk to back up the entire computer. That is if you don't have a complete backup yet.
Don't hold your breath. I remember when the first MacBook Air arrived, people were expecting a new MacBook Pro to follow almost immediately after. It took almost a year.
In this case we know that mobile Sandy Bridge parts are expected to be delivered in February. So yeah that means it is likely a couple of more months if Apple goes with SB at all.
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I don't expect any kind of redesign until October 2011 at the earliest. In short, the next revision will in all likelihood be no more than a speed bump with a tasty Sandy Bridge filling and the DVD drive still sandwiched between the keyboard and battery.
Why do you suspect this. Apple will have to redesign the motherboard for SB so it would make sense to move to new tech throughout the machine. Besides SB is a major step up it would be silly to build it in as a speed bump.
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If there is a major change this time round, however, it will be SSD. I certainly think that is a step in the right direction. (The improved screen resolution is a given.)
Is that not enough to wait for right there? Seriously if they put in three or four slots for those blade modules don't you think that is a major improvement right there. SB with blade SSDs would impress me alone and be reason for an update.
As to screen resolution I would not expect anything drastic until resolution independence comes to the Mac. A little better might be possible but they have to watch human factors here.
There is always the possibility that you are right but honestly I think the coming update will be major. Things are converging in such a way that much in the way of new tech could be folded into the MBPs.
I actually think fixed yearly cycles are a bad thing for Apple. For one it forces delivery before a product is ready. We have seen this with iPhone and iOS releases.
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Originally Posted by clickmyface
I have been in the market for a new Macbook for about 6 months now, but I am happy to wait until April. I know that the Macbook Pro cycle is 208 days, and we are at 288 now. Frankly, I would like to see Apple move to a yearly product cycle in all of their channels. That way I know exactly when an update is coming and can plan accordingly.
Non sense if Apple approximated 365 day releases you would not be sure of anything because even the I devices aren't released on that tight of a schedule. On top of that Appple would never be able to assure updates in sync with vendor releases. Schedules do slip.
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I don't like the specs game, and I think we should move past it. Don't get me wrong, I used to be very guilty of it. Specs in the "pc world' are a joke though.
Complaining about Core 2 in the new AIRs is a joke too. First they aren't that expensive for what you get. Second they are often compared with machines carrying Intel integrated graphics. Often these guys end up looking foolish.
Specs are important, don't get me wrong. The problem is many people don't know what they are talking about. Arguements about the Mac Pro and it's price seem to forget just what type of a machine it is. It may or may not be expensive depending on your needs. If you can't digest the specs then you really don't know how to compare the hardware.
The problem is people often see the price on the AIR or some other Apple computer and think gee that is expensive. Maybe it is for their needs but not everybodies needs are the same. Besides today you can by a Mac and outfit it with much cheaper software so in the end it's net cost is less.
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Apple has spent 35 years building a software and hardware ecosystem that proves computing is about way more than mhz and gigaflops. The pc world is constantly updating systems with relatively marginal improvements, releasing laptop models like HP's "Pavillion DMZ1" series to the "DM3Z" series. There is no innovation, just a change in model numbers every month to drive sales. What a joke. I'm worried pc hardware manufactures are actually going to run out of number/letter combinations.
Nah they will just use alternative languages.
Not to make light of your point because you are correct to an extent. They same motherboard often ends up in different chassis, some times several different ones. On the other hand Apple needs to move out of it's design rut, especially with desktops. One element in growth is attracting customers with needs you can't current meet. That means new products. Apple isn't perfect either.
A case redesign that gets rid of the on-baord disk drive would be a major update to me. Anything else is just a routine update, even if it comes with SSD and improved screen resolution. You can already get an SSD drive for your MBP if you want one. Blades simply reduce the price. What i would dislike about blade SSDs in MBPs is if they prevented you from upgrading to a larger capacity drive later.
You comments about SB make sense. When is the die-shrink coming? maybe that will be a better time to upgrade?
Comments
For me, the new MacBook Air represented some clever thinking by Apple (outwith the actual product design itself).
Apple is continuing to move away from third party industry standard components which they have to buy in and which to a large degree force their hand from a product design perspective, and toward Apple designed components produced for them by third parties which have already been tied into 'massive advanced orders at knockdown prices' agreements.
Apple have pre-ordered both LCD panels and flash/RAM in massive quantities, and I believe that the new MacBook Air is the first generation of MacOS hardware to benefit from these deals. Apple has ditched industry standard SO-DIMMs and 2.5" drives in favour of their own components, thereby allowing them greater flexibility from a product design perspective and also allowing them realise some massive savings. Dell still has to buy their components off-the-shelf at contemporary prices.
The price point of the new MacBook Air was significantly lower than I was expecting, and in particular I didn't expect to see SSDs of that capacity, and LCDs of that quality at that price point. How many other products at that price point have that battery life, SSD capacity and an LED backlit screen of that quality? That's before we even get into MacOS vs. Windows!
What if Apple were to resist the temptation to price-gouge (a break from historical data I know) and instead choose to compete where their competitors simply can't compete? They no longer have to buy in hard disk drive and optical drive mechanisms from third parties who don't have Apple's own buying power. Applications and content can now simply be downloaded from Apple's own digital stores directly to flash components and LCD panels which were pre-ordered years ago. No PC World. No Seagate.
There's nothing to stop Apple producing a next-generation MacBook Pro with both 16GB of RAM soldered onto the motherboard and one of their 512GB SSD stick drives at a price that their competitors simply couldn't get anywhere near.
I guess the next step is for Apple to enter into similar 'pay-up-front' deals with Intel and Nvidia/ATI, or simply expand their own 'A' processor developments...
...ultimately Apple want to reduce their cost base and cut-out the middle men. Devices like the iPad and the new MacBook Air are the clearest examples of this business model. Apple are making the content consumption devices and making a cut on the content itself ? all without having to pay a cut to middle men.
Smart business. Yeah, I think it's clear what the next generation of MacBooks will look like!
The new MBA is clearly working. Consumers don't need or want disc drives, and if they do they have some options.
Too many different overlapping 13" models at around the $1100 price point. You have a 13" model in each category, MB, MBA and MBP. I think the holiday quarter where they all existed simultaneously was the test run, who was buying what and why. They couldn't simplify before now because they couldn't be sure how people would take to the new MBA models. Now they know.
I say it's time to retire the vanilla macbook. It is no longer relevant, Apple would do better by focusing on and improving the MBA as its entry level notebook line. They don't even offer a blackbook model anymore, what's the point of this model now?
Get rid of the 13" MBP. Again too much overlap and not enough clarity. Besides the 13" MBP is hardly pro enough for most people's tastes, its just a compromised MBP missing some of the higher end features. They made this model because people missed their baby powerbooks, well the 11" MBA takes care of that category quite nicely.
Reduce the 6 models to 4. They would have 11 and 13" MBA, and 15 and 17" MBP. Very clear and distinct models that would allow Apple to focus and innovate better. We know Apple operates best when they have fewer models that they can focus on and really make each one best of breed. I don't want to see them wasting their time or ours with 13" macbook or MBP models that probably aren't selling well anyway, at least compared to the MBA.
Yeah I think its time for them to get rid of some models. They have too much overlap going on, not enough clarity.
Where did that idea come from? Walk into any Apple store and take one look and you should realize that there is very little overlap. The plastic Mac Book isn't well positioned these days but that can be addressed by going after the low cost market , that is build a $5-600 laptop. In fact I'd have to say that each model line is fairly well positioned these days.
The new MBA is clearly working. Consumers don't need or want disc drives, and if they do they have some options.
AIRs are great for people that where already in the market for a netbook sized laptop that performs well. However I have to dismiss your comments about disks or storage. Storage is something many consummers want.
Too many different overlapping 13" models at around the $1100 price point. You have a 13" model in each category, MB, MBA and MBP.
You must be a small guy because you are too focused on size. There is very little actual overlap going on with the 13" models. Honestly look at the spec sheets and the other factors.
I think the holiday quarter where they all existed simultaneously was the test run, who was buying what and why. They couldn't simplify before now because they couldn't be sure how people would take to the new MBA models. Now they know.
Sales of current AIR models means nothing. It has barely been 90 days which means early adopter sales and pent up demand.
I say it's time to retire the vanilla macbook. It is no longer relevant, Apple would do better by focusing on and improving the MBA as its entry level notebook line. They don't even offer a blackbook model anymore, what's the point of this model now?
Sorry but $1000 is not entry level for a low end notebook. Apple really needs a lowend notebook somewher around $5-600. Like it or not that would be entry level.
Get rid of the 13" MBP. Again too much overlap and not enough clarity.
BS, not even worth discussing beyond that.
Besides the 13" MBP is hardly pro enough for most people's tastes, its just a compromised MBP missing some of the higher end features. They made this model because people missed their baby powerbooks, well the 11" MBA takes care of that category quite nicely.
Then make it more pro like.
Reduce the 6 models to 4. They would have 11 and 13" MBA, and 15 and 17" MBP. Very clear and distinct models that would allow Apple to focus and innovate better. We know Apple operates best when they have fewer models that they can focus on and really make each one best of breed. I don't want to see them wasting their time or ours with 13" macbook or MBP models that probably aren't selling well anyway, at least compared to the MBA.
nope just the opposite, they need more portable hardware.
Now with Apples current approach to machine construction, that is CNCing the chassis out of a block of Aluminum, it shouldn't be that difficult to build a beefed up chassis. What you would be looking at is a stronger bottom cover plus a lid that protects the screen better. Possible a screen made of Gorrilla glass. A few changes may be required to the internals also. In the end the goal is a laptop that can take more aggressive use than the current models.
Now I realize that many will say something to the effect of "ugly" or that the market is to small but I don't buy it. First; ugly is in the eye of the beholder and this market cares more about devices that put out rather than look good. Admittedly the market is small but then that hasn't stopped big companies like Panasonic from playing there. In any event I see it as a valid opportunity for Apple.
Beyond that Apple needs to implement laptops with built in 3G/4G support. I'm not sure why the AIRs didn't get this as they are the models most likely to be used on the go where a cell connection would be valuable. I'd actually like to see this as a feature of current models but would settle for additional models. Whatever they do though it needs a card slot and it needs to be unlocked so that one can use the platform anywhere at reasonable rates.
These are two examples where Apple could fill out their current line up of laptops. I'm sure others could come up with other needs that might be profitable for Apple to fill. Whatever, the last thing they need to do is to make the line up more limited. Laptops are still hot so they need to pay attention there.
Thus they need even more models not fewer.
I don't agree.
Where did that idea come from?
Observation and logic.
Walk into any Apple store and take one look and you should realize that there is very little overlap.
Walk into any Apple store and you'll quickly realize the iOS tables are far more busy than the MacOS tables.
The plastic Mac Book isn't well positioned these days but that can be addressed by going after the low cost market , that is build a $5-600 laptop.
Apple already did this, the Apple way, with the iPad. Now you want them to make a notebook to compete with the iPad? Just... ugh.
AIRs are great for people that where already in the market for a netbook sized laptop that performs well. However I have to dismiss your comments about disks or storage. Storage is something many consummers want.
Clearly false, as evidenced by both MBA and iPad sales.
You must be a small guy because you are too focused on size.
5'11" is small? I suppose if you're 6'2".
Seriously though, below the belt. No need to make it personal... friendo.
There is very little actual overlap going on with the 13" models. Honestly look at the spec sheets and the other factors.
Disagree once again. There's alot of overlap, as in, they're all priced about the same and they're all 13", yet only one of them is actually popular.
Sales of current AIR models means nothing. It has barely been 90 days which means early adopter sales and pent up demand.
Maybe. But how long does Apple need to sit on its hands before it should make this decision?
The rest of what you say is just more of the same.
Look, I provided my opinion of what I think Apple ought to do with their highly confusing, overlapping and unnecessary 13" models: simplify them. At least one of them is not needed, but I think they could get rid of 2 and instead just have one really good 13" model. I happen to think the 13" MBA provides the blueprint. Real pro people will always want the 15 and 17" models anyway. No need to pretend like the 13" MBP is actually pro.
I also think what I'm saying falls in line with the way Apple thinks and their own statements. They have often said they prefer to simplify, streamline, and focus on fewer models. They make better products that way. Their words not mine. Right now they have 6 sizes or types of macbook with 3 of them being 13" models, even though they each have different enclosures and innards. In the case of 2 of them, for almost no good reason.
They don't need more models. How many model of cell phone did they need to dominate the industry? 1. How many iPods? At it's height, 4. 6 macbook types? They don't sell enough macbooks to justify that, and its not helping them.
You don't have to agree with what I'm saying, but don't trash me personally or act like I'm saying something far out there. Apple makes it clear the way they think and I think I'm interpreting the intentions correctly.
Intel/nvidia's deal is not about that.
The $3.9B deal is with three vendors, not one, that can mean anything in terms of parts, flash chips could be one part of the deal, then there's hirez displays, batteries, whatever...
Surely some of the MBA features will found their way to other notebooks: the lack of DVD, solid-state storage, hirez displays, tapered design, multi-part batteries,... but that doesn't mean those new notebooks will be much, much thinner (you still need big batteries to power regular voltage cpus and dedicated graphics). The MBA solid-state blades look to be less expensive than the SSDs used in other Macs, so I expect some notebooks to get 128/256GB blades in the future, probably up to 512GB this year. 1TB SSD/blades from Apple? Probably not before 2012 at a reasonable price.
Rumors about a 15" MBA have existed for a long time (since the launch of the original MBA), if released (as a MBA in 2011) it will certainly not have a "powerful" SB cpu, dedicated gpu and 1TB of solid-state storage. LV cpu, very efficient gpu (probably integrated), 128/256GB blade, $1799?
As far as the "delay" perceived of the new MBPs, let's not forget that mainstream mobile SB cpus (dual-core i5 and i7) are not avaialable yet. February 20. So a march release is probably the best we can expect.
If there's one Mac that needs a redesign ASAP, it's the 13" MBP. Even if people seem to like it very much. In fact, Apple should keep it as the new alu MacBook for 2011 at $999/1199 (white MB EOL'd) and create a brand new 13" MBP using some features from the MBA as described above.
$999 13" alu MacBook, 1280*800, 2.40 C2D, 320M, 2GB RAM, HDD/ODD
$1199 13" alu MacBook, 1280*800, 2.66 C2D, 320M, 2GB RAM, HDD/ODD
$1499 13" MacBook Pro, 1440*900, SB Core i5, dGPU, 4GB RAM, 128GB blade, 2.5" HDD/SSD bay, no ODD
Mjteix,
I didn't realise that mainstream SB mobile CPUs weren't coming until February. That being the case, you must be right about a March release date.
Pardon my ignorance, but I thought that the Intel/Nvidia deal was exactly about Intel being able to use Nvida's GPUs in its processors. Whatever the future holds for this partnership, I'd be interested to know what GPU/GPU combination you think Apple will offer in its i5 and i7 line-up. It doesn't look like Apple will use Intel's own on-board GPUS but instead choose a third-party one.
I think you're right about the 13" MacBook Pro needing to be redesigned. I'd like it to offer exactly the same functionality/ performance advantages of the 15" MacBook Pro but in a 13" case. The difference should only be size not performance. Many power users, yours truly included, just don't want to lug around a heavy 15" slab. Of course, as soon as you junk the on-board DVD drive, the 13" MBP overlaps all the more with the 13" MacBook Air. Standard SSDs would be great, but 128 Gb just isn't enough. It'll need to have 256 Gb min with 512 Gb as a BTO option.
Without doubt, however, 13" is a sweet-spot for Apple's laptops. They combine decent screen size with low weight. A 15" MBA would offer the same advantage, but it might have enough extra room to accommodate a SB processor? Whatever it Apple offers, it can't afford to get it wrong. To me, this suggests greater future choice not less.
What I can't make-up my mind about is whether the MBP line-up will get a redesign now or at the next refresh.
What I can't make-up my mind about is whether the MBP line-up will get a redesign now or at the next refresh.
We have not heard a word about this from any one. It's all just a guess. In the past, AI or MacRumors, or 9 to 5 Mac, or even Gruber would have some tidbit of info on a redesign. But nothing. So that inclines me to think that it's just going to be the Sandy Bridge update with perhaps the flash storage from the Air.
Displays across 13 and 15" MBP lines get bumped up in resolution. 13" becomes 1440x900, 15" becomes 1680x1050.
New GPU for models with Dedi GPUs...probably AMD Mobility Radeon 5600 or 6600 series. The amounts of VRAM will probably be doubled; low end models with 512 MB, higher end models get 1 GB.
New SB processors will round out the update.
I have no idea what will become of the baseline MB...I've been suspecting that MBA will ultimately replace it.
i was already ready to purchase a new mbp 15in due to sandy bridge release, hoping it would come out soon, but now i am in desperate need of a new computer.
with the current mbp specs with core i7 2.8 processor and 256gb ssd, 4gm of ram (buying the 8gb upgrade from newegg instead of from apple website), will i see an obvious difference in speed with the same specs of the upcoming mbp15in with the sandy bridge motherboard? hoping the current nvidia included graphics is at least comparable and not so much different in the recent mobile graphics processors that may be installed in the new mbp.
im a regular college student, and i'd at least like to run crysis 2 (when out) and diablo 3 at very high settings.
sorry to bring this thread back, but a friend of mine recently spilled water over my 2007 mbp, causing everything to die (power won't even turn on anymore).
I hope you don't have to many friends like that. He better compensate you at least a little bit even if that simply means sharing a PC.
i was already ready to purchase a new mbp 15in due to sandy bridge release, hoping it would come out soon, but now i am in desperate need of a new computer.
This really hurts because as a college student you can't wait more than a few days. You might not have a choice.
with the current mbp specs with core i7 2.8 processor and 256gb ssd, 4gm of ram (buying the 8gb upgrade from newegg instead of from apple website), will i see an obvious difference in speed with the same specs of the upcoming mbp15in with the sandy bridge motherboard?
The difference could be anywhere from minor to very significant. It depends upon your software usage. In some cases Sandy Bridge will be very fast.
hoping the current nvidia included graphics is at least comparable and not so much different in the recent mobile graphics processors that may be installed in the new mbp.
Most likely they will go ATI/AMD even if they don't the possibility is for a huge speed up. It is not like MBP are bleeding edge graphics machines as it is.
im a regular college student, and i'd at least like to run crysis 2 (when out) and diablo 3 at very high settings.
There is no such thing as a regular college student. Since we don't know your major we can only comment on gaming. In that regard the coming machines are likely to have stronger GPU performance.
It actually sucks that you are in a bind here. Of course you already know this and it has to be even worst to realize that new MBP are probably a month or two away. The only other thing to do besides buying now is to find a temporary solution. It could be a couple of months before the MBPs are available.
I hope you don't have to many friends like that. He better compensate you at least a little bit even if that simply means sharing a PC.
This really hurts because as a college student you can't wait more than a few days. You might not have a choice.
The difference could be anywhere from minor to very significant. It depends upon your software usage. In some cases Sandy Bridge will be very fast.
Most likely they will go ATI/AMD even if they don't the possibility is for a huge speed up. It is not like MBP are bleeding edge graphics machines as it is.
There is no such thing as a regular college student. Since we don't know your major we can only comment on gaming. In that regard the coming machines are likely to have stronger GPU performance.
It actually sucks that you are in a bind here. Of course you already know this and it has to be even worst to realize that new MBP are probably a month or two away. The only other thing to do besides buying now is to find a temporary solution. It could be a couple of months before the MBPs are available.
actually, computer problem is solved with the old drying with rice trick. luckily im asian and have uncooked rice available. thanks! lets continue with the waiting of mbp!
imagine the AIRs with a really fast processor and a dedicated GPU.
THIS is why I am waiting
THIS is why I am waiting
Don't hold your breath. I remember when the first MacBook Air arrived, people were expecting a new MacBook Pro to follow almost immediately after. It took almost a year. I don't expect any kind of redesign until October 2011 at the earliest. In short, the next revision will in all likelihood be no more than a speed bump with a tasty Sandy Bridge filling and the DVD drive still sandwiched between the keyboard and battery.
If there is a major change this time round, however, it will be SSD. I certainly think that is a step in the right direction. (The improved screen resolution is a given.)
With the price tags on mac's, anything still having core2duo cpu need
to be refresh asap.
Apple need to stay below 2x price tags compare to same specs in the pc world. Core2duo macs are above 2x with some models being 4 times more expensive than pc's with same specs. Thats insane.
I don't like the specs game, and I think we should move past it. Don't get me wrong, I used to be very guilty of it. Specs in the "pc world' are a joke though. Apple has spent 35 years building a software and hardware ecosystem that proves computing is about way more than mhz and gigaflops. The pc world is constantly updating systems with relatively marginal improvements, releasing laptop models like HP's "Pavillion DMZ1" series to the "DM3Z" series. There is no innovation, just a change in model numbers every month to drive sales. What a joke. I'm worried pc hardware manufactures are actually going to run out of number/letter combinations.
actually, computer problem is solved with the old drying with rice trick. luckily im asian and have uncooked rice available. thanks! lets continue with the waiting of mbp!
Hey now, I'm not Asian yet I have rice in the house. It's been sitting there for ages but that is another matter.
By the way, run out and by a disk to back up the entire computer. That is if you don't have a complete backup yet.
Don't hold your breath. I remember when the first MacBook Air arrived, people were expecting a new MacBook Pro to follow almost immediately after. It took almost a year.
In this case we know that mobile Sandy Bridge parts are expected to be delivered in February. So yeah that means it is likely a couple of more months if Apple goes with SB at all.
I don't expect any kind of redesign until October 2011 at the earliest. In short, the next revision will in all likelihood be no more than a speed bump with a tasty Sandy Bridge filling and the DVD drive still sandwiched between the keyboard and battery.
Why do you suspect this. Apple will have to redesign the motherboard for SB so it would make sense to move to new tech throughout the machine. Besides SB is a major step up it would be silly to build it in as a speed bump.
If there is a major change this time round, however, it will be SSD. I certainly think that is a step in the right direction. (The improved screen resolution is a given.)
Is that not enough to wait for right there? Seriously if they put in three or four slots for those blade modules don't you think that is a major improvement right there. SB with blade SSDs would impress me alone and be reason for an update.
As to screen resolution I would not expect anything drastic until resolution independence comes to the Mac. A little better might be possible but they have to watch human factors here.
There is always the possibility that you are right but honestly I think the coming update will be major. Things are converging in such a way that much in the way of new tech could be folded into the MBPs.
I have been in the market for a new Macbook for about 6 months now, but I am happy to wait until April. I know that the Macbook Pro cycle is 208 days, and we are at 288 now. Frankly, I would like to see Apple move to a yearly product cycle in all of their channels. That way I know exactly when an update is coming and can plan accordingly.
Non sense if Apple approximated 365 day releases you would not be sure of anything because even the I devices aren't released on that tight of a schedule. On top of that Appple would never be able to assure updates in sync with vendor releases. Schedules do slip.
I don't like the specs game, and I think we should move past it. Don't get me wrong, I used to be very guilty of it. Specs in the "pc world' are a joke though.
Complaining about Core 2 in the new AIRs is a joke too. First they aren't that expensive for what you get. Second they are often compared with machines carrying Intel integrated graphics. Often these guys end up looking foolish.
Specs are important, don't get me wrong. The problem is many people don't know what they are talking about. Arguements about the Mac Pro and it's price seem to forget just what type of a machine it is. It may or may not be expensive depending on your needs. If you can't digest the specs then you really don't know how to compare the hardware.
The problem is people often see the price on the AIR or some other Apple computer and think gee that is expensive. Maybe it is for their needs but not everybodies needs are the same. Besides today you can by a Mac and outfit it with much cheaper software so in the end it's net cost is less.
Apple has spent 35 years building a software and hardware ecosystem that proves computing is about way more than mhz and gigaflops. The pc world is constantly updating systems with relatively marginal improvements, releasing laptop models like HP's "Pavillion DMZ1" series to the "DM3Z" series. There is no innovation, just a change in model numbers every month to drive sales. What a joke. I'm worried pc hardware manufactures are actually going to run out of number/letter combinations.
Nah they will just use alternative languages.
Not to make light of your point because you are correct to an extent. They same motherboard often ends up in different chassis, some times several different ones. On the other hand Apple needs to move out of it's design rut, especially with desktops. One element in growth is attracting customers with needs you can't current meet. That means new products. Apple isn't perfect either.
A case redesign that gets rid of the on-baord disk drive would be a major update to me. Anything else is just a routine update, even if it comes with SSD and improved screen resolution. You can already get an SSD drive for your MBP if you want one. Blades simply reduce the price. What i would dislike about blade SSDs in MBPs is if they prevented you from upgrading to a larger capacity drive later.
You comments about SB make sense. When is the die-shrink coming? maybe that will be a better time to upgrade?