Commercial airlines look to Apple's iPad for paperless cockpits

245

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 90
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post


    To be 100% honest, I had no idea that airlines still used paper maps. I assumed they had gone digital eons ago.



    The airplanes all have the map data built into their computer databases of course but we use the maps for a lot of additional detail as pilots. If I tell the plane "Go direct to Chicago O'Hare" it of course knows where that is because it has it in the database etc. but the paper maps provide it in a useable way that the primary displays can't. These charts will likely be replicated in as straight forward a way as a .pdf file on an iPad for us.



    Image of a 737 navigational display (the display on the right with all the circles) http://www.flickr.com/photos/ruthann/4183901907/



    Image of an enroute paper chart

    http://www.altairva-fs.com/training/...oute_chart.htm



    Image of an approach chart

    http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AA...s/image004.jpg
  • Reply 22 of 90
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez View Post


    Don't these airlines know that XOOM is Everything a Tablet Should Be?



    Not according to Ars review of it
  • Reply 23 of 90
    xsuxsu Posts: 401member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post


    To be 100% honest, I had no idea that airlines still used paper maps. I assumed they had gone digital eons ago.



    You have to have backups. Otherwise, if cockpit system loses power, you are screwed.
  • Reply 24 of 90
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balmer's Right Nut View Post


    I' not getting on the plane if they're using an Android Craplet.



    That's not surprising since fanboys aren't exactly known for being smart, or even mildly intelligent.



    You go ahead and stay a while longer at that airport while someone else takes your seat, laughing all the way to where you needed to go.
  • Reply 25 of 90
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post


    Please, it's not an acronym. The product is called iPad, not iPAD. Sorry for being so anal.



    I've actually been bitched at on youtube for constantly calling it an Ipad rofl
  • Reply 26 of 90
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Maps and such should be built in to the airplane cockpit displays, not on an iPad. And emergency procedures should be on paper (even if they are on iPad also) in case the battery is flat.



    As another poster commented, maps *are* built in to panel displays, but their resolution, distance from the pilot, and small size of the screen is insufficient for general purpose use.



    Because the e-maps require a backup in the form of paper or other electronic maps, there's very little chance of an aviator being stuck without maps due to battery failure. Jeppeson has been doing maps with PC-based systems for over a decade, doing it on iPad immediately means longer battery life. More importantly, because there is a much more manageable form factor than a PC on a pilot's lap, safety is increased.



    Keeping maps up-to-date is a real chore. Pilots are allowed to use maps that are one revision out-of-date. By making them electronic and in a form that they are more usable is a situation that everyone wins from.
  • Reply 27 of 90
    technotechno Posts: 735member
    I would like to see an iPad on the back of each seat
  • Reply 28 of 90
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by canyonblue737 View Post


    Currently the vast majority of airlines use paper charts in huge binders that total thousands and thousands of pages. .



    If the iPad becomes popular with airlines, expect a new model with lots and lots o' flash memory!



    Hooah!
  • Reply 29 of 90
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by orangesauce View Post


    More importantly, because there is a much more manageable form factor than a PC on a pilot's lap, safety is increased.




    Pilots of commercial airlines need to balance a Windows PC on their lap? How do they use the foot pedals? The FAA should put a stop to those windows PC's immediately. The iPad would be safer, and if it falls down to the pilot's feet, it would not get in the way because it has no hinged screen.
  • Reply 30 of 90
    avonordavonord Posts: 71member
    Another step in being closer to a star trek device...



    "Captain, here's the cargo manifest..."
  • Reply 31 of 90
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by techno View Post


    I would like to see an iPad on the back of each seat



    I?d just like to see a better display. I have chosen to watch my iPhone 3G over the seat back displays because of how poor they are in every single way. Hopefully the push for capacitance touch displays will allow them to become standard on planes in the coming years.
  • Reply 32 of 90
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tjwal View Post


    My Garmin 255 worked OK until I pressed GO. It then started recalculating everytime it crossed a road The top speed was about 850 km/h. IIRC my first GPS was rated for 900 mph.



    I had a very old Garmin handheld that was not designed for anything but knowing where you were at in relation to waypoints that you had programmed. It worked in cars, but not in planes.



    Anytime that happens, it's a software limitation, not a hardware one. Speed is the distance/time, and if the GPS is only sampling once every ten seconds because it is slow, the distance between two points is just going to be greater. But even cheap GPSs sample more than that.



    Eventually, I forced Garmin to replace the unit with updated software because it wasn't labelled as "not for airplanes". It was not certified as a means of primary navigation by the FAA, but it was a great backup, and the FTC doesn't like to hear about things like this.
  • Reply 33 of 90
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by canyonblue737 View Post


    Electronic Flight Bags primarily replace paper charts and paper manuals first and foremost. Currently the vast majority of airlines use paper charts in huge binders that total thousands and thousands of pages. Each pilot has a set and the weight and cost of the service is very high. Every 2 weeks hundreds of those thousands of charts are updated and so a tedious and costly by hand change out of charts has to occur.





    Been quite awhile, but oh how I remember the glamour days of watching the corporate pilots come in to the FBO on Saturday and spend a day in their office to update their Jepp manuals. I guess it is a price one has to pay to have a better layout of the information or whatever it is that has a hold on the corporate and commercial piloting world versus the US Government's NOAA published instrument approach plate booklets that have an expiration date, along with SID's & STAR's that you just toss for a fresh, current one when they reach the expiration date... Although Jepp has better airport diagrams versus the stodgy green AF/D'w the government publishes!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by canyonblue737 View Post


    These devices are not, and will never be used for primary navigation of the plane etc. which is all done via very sophisticated inertial reference systems combined with triple redundant GPS that is far beyond anything in any consumer device and which alone costs more than a typical house.



    Free Flight, Baby! Just wonder which will happen first... Free flight or the completion of a parallel runway at my hometown airport ORF, or my funeral?! If I was a betting person, sadly, I'd choose the latter...

    /

    /

    /
  • Reply 34 of 90
    aaronjaaronj Posts: 1,595member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by canyonblue737 View Post


    The airplanes all have the map data built into their computer databases of course but we use the maps for a lot of additional detail as pilots. If I tell the plane "Go direct to Chicago O'Hare" it of course knows where that is because it has it in the database etc. but the paper maps provide it in a useable way that the primary displays can't. These charts will likely be replicated in as straight forward a way as a .pdf file on an iPad for us.



    Image of a 737 navigational display (the display on the right with all the circles) http://www.flickr.com/photos/ruthann/4183901907/



    Image of an enroute paper chart

    http://www.altairva-fs.com/training/...oute_chart.htm



    Image of an approach chart

    http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AA...s/image004.jpg



    Fascinating. Thank you.



    The extent of my experience is playing Falcon 3.0 on a PC years ago.
  • Reply 35 of 90
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez View Post


    Don't these airlines know that XOOM is Everything a Tablet Should Be?



    You mean the XOOM is for NASA space shuttles!



    First, the name spelling and pronunciation is out of this world...



    More importantly however...



    Like the Space Shuttle, the XOOM appears to be antiquated 30 year old machinery destined for a museum... and the iPad 2 will help the XOOM reach that museum even sooner than the stoic career of the beloved space shuttle!
  • Reply 36 of 90
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    I've actually been bitched at on youtube for constantly calling it an Ipad rofl



    Perhaps because it is iPad, not Ipad?
  • Reply 37 of 90
    rbonnerrbonner Posts: 635member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by canyonblue737 View Post


    I am an airline pilot for a large major US airline. Let me explain what these are really going to be used for...




    Very nice post, thank you for taking the time to write that up!
  • Reply 38 of 90
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by calfoto View Post


    I wonder if the GPS in an iPad will keep up with the flight speeds of a commercial jet? I tried using a car unit onboard a few flights but it couldn't handle the speed shortly after take off



    I don't think that would be an issue considering that they are using paper charts now.
  • Reply 39 of 90
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by canyonblue737 View Post


    I am an airline pilot for a large major US airline. Let me explain what these are really going to be used for...



    Electronic Flight Bags primarily replace paper charts and paper manuals first and foremost. Currently the vast majority of airlines use paper charts in huge binders that total thousands and thousands of pages. Each pilot has a set and the weight and cost of the service is very high. Every 2 weeks hundreds of those thousands of charts are updated and so a tedious and costly by hand change out of charts has to occur. The same is true for flight and maintenance manuals, also totaling thousands of pages with frequent updates.



    ...




    This hits a nerve...



    Different time, different indusrty -- same problem:



    In 1964-1980, I worked for IBM. Many of these years were spent as a Systems Engineer (Technical Market Support Representative) for mainframe computers. In a branch office, there could be 10s-100s of salesmen, 10s-100s of system engineers and 10s-100s of customer engineers (repairmen). There were thousands of branch offices.



    Each salesman and system engineer always carried a sales manual containing detailed descriptions. prices, availability for every product we sold -- hundreds of [very thin paper] pages of very small print.



    These sales manuals were updated continuously -- requiring several hours each week to remove and replace the pages.



    In addition. each system engineer had a set of technical manuals describing the computer systems he, specifically, supported: computer model; peripherals; operating systems (there were several choices); applications; programming languages (there were several), etc. A reference set of these manuals was, typically, a 4-6 foot high stack of 8 1/2 x 11 binders. Guess what, each of these manuls were. also, updated continuously -- another few hours per week updating manuals.



    Most IBM salesmen and system engineers carried their sales manual, brochures and whatever technical manuals would be used (that day) in an attache case -- roughly equivalent of your flight bag.



    IBM Customer Engineers (repairmen) had an equivalent collection of repair manuals with repair/maintenance procedures, wiring diagrams, pictorial repair diagrams, etc.



    At that time, IBM had over 400,000 employees -- I suspect at least 1-200,000 were salesmen, system engineers or customer engineers.



    So, hundreds of thousands of employees, spending 5-10 hours each, every week -- pushing paper to keep their manuals updated.





    That whole problem and waste of time could be eliminated by giving each of those an iPad and electronic updates -- much the way app updates are delivered to the iPad, today!





    They would be more productive, more efficient and more effective!





    I don't know how IBM branch offices operate, today.



    But any company that has a large field organization: salesmen calling on customers; repairmen going on site; support people training customers or fixing software problems...



    These companies have a need similar to the airplane pilots, flight engineers, maintenance and repairmen.



    They must have a set of constantly updated information at their fingertips, with them during their working hours.





    I wonder how many thousands of companies and millions of employees have similar needs.
  • Reply 40 of 90
    If pilots can use iPads in the cockpit, does this mean passengers will finally be able to use them during takeoff & landing?
Sign In or Register to comment.