How the hell did you get from ?the White House put oil interests ahead of national security? to ?it's not 100% the 'fault of Muslims' ??
What happened on 9/11 is not 100% the 'fault of Muslims'?!? What the hell are you on? Are you trying to say the US deserved it? They need to lock you up! You?re not fit to walk the streets, you dumb ass.
Don't get hysterical Mika. I'll explain it for you.
No, no-one deserves what happened on 9/11. Re-reading my post I notice I didn't mention 9/11.
There's a difference between the emotional / moral "deserve" and being partly causally "responsible." For example, if I call you a bigot and a loony and I know you're a psycho, I "deserve" to be called to account and to explain myself. I'm partly "responsible" if you instead post over-emotional, angry things on the web about me even if I do not deserve it ... I should know 100% this is going to happen and if I want to avoid it I should take a different tack to achieve my aims.
Regarding the Taliban, if I buy someone a gun, train him how to use it even though I know he's a sick bastard and do nothing while he does bad things ... and then, later, decide he's my enemy, a percentage of the responsibility for him killing people (even my friends) it is partly mine.
Hence it isn't 100% the fault of Islam.
Hence Muslims aren't 100% bad.
Actually I know you know this already ... I guess I'm pushing my luck by trying to get you see that "we" got ourselves into "this mess" partly by our actions and not 100% those of others.
No, no-one deserves what happened on 9/11. Re-reading my post I notice I didn't mention 9/11.
This thread *is* about 9/11.
quote
There's a difference between the emotional / moral "deserve" and being partly causally "responsible." For example, if I call you a bigot and a loony and I know you're a psycho, I "deserve" to be called to account and to explain myself. I'm partly "responsible" if you instead post over-emotional, angry things on the web about me even if I do not deserve it ... I should know 100% this is going to happen and if I want to avoid it I should take a different tack to achieve my aims.
So. YouÂ?re saying IÂ?m right calling you a dumb ass. Man, you are a real push-over. YouÂ?re too soft for this world, Harald.
quote
Regarding the Taliban, if I buy someone a gun, train him how to use it even though I know he's a sick bastard and do nothing while he does bad things ... and then, later, decide he's my enemy, a percentage of the responsibility for him killing people (even my friends) it is partly mine.
According to this logic you would be against any kind of appeasement policy. This is interesting, because, thatÂ?s not the impression I got from reading your posts.
quote
Actually I know you know this already ... I guess I'm pushing my luck by trying to get you see that "we" got ourselves into "this mess" partly by our actions and not 100% those of others.
How do we get ourselves out of this mess? Just curious what your solution would be vis-Ã*-vis Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudia, Arafat, etc. It sounds like it would be even more hard-line than Sharon and Bush.
I have to say this man. You are part of the problem. You are intent on blaming one side of the conflict rather than accepting that where two people, or two parties, fight there are two to be blamed. This stubborness means that there will never be a peaceful solution because rather than concentrating on what you can contribute to peace, you concentrate on what others are not.
Once again, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. You are.
You read my posts, so know how stubborn I am. You?d also know that I?m a fair person, and call things as they are. But I?m not going to let the Ishmaelites get away with trying to steal our land. They have plenty of land of their own. They don?t need ours. The only reason they maintain this conflict is so that they can justify their corrupt and dictatorial regimes.
Jews to Judea, Arabs to Arabia. It?s really a simple concept.
Much of the problem in the middle East stems from the fact that after the second worls war NATO divided up much of Palestine and gave land to the Jews.
<strong>Much of the problem in the middle East stems from the fact that after the second worls war NATO divided up much of Palestine and gave land to the Jews.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes it's true, but NATO was right to do this : during the genocide more than 7 millions of jews where killed (perhaps for you it's just a member but it's imply that entire jews family where anhilated, and that most jews have one of few member of his family killed in WW2, some others survive but where shocked for their entire life after the time they spent in a concentration camp).
I think that giving land to the jews was the least that world can do for them ( a very little compensation). A land for them was the warranty that these people can leave in safety under their own governement without being prosecuted for the simple fact to be a jew.
Perhaps the initial plan of the NATO take not enought warranty , but as i say everyday to some of my patients who want to know everything of their future we should have all a crytal ball.
Israel has the Moral right to exist since his beginning (and now he exist, and this question is no more relevant than to ask if US or France has the right to exist)
I would just add that Palestine in my opinion have the right to exist but they choose a bad way with terrorism. My major criticism against the jew governement is their politic of settlements. This has been dealt many times here on AI, i will not discuss it more time, but as you are new here Vargas, i just wanted to precise my opinion.
<strong>You read my posts, so know how stubborn I am. You?d also know that I?m a fair person, and call things as they are. But I?m not going to let the Ishmaelites get away with trying to steal our land. They have plenty of land of their own. They don?t need ours. The only reason they maintain this conflict is so that they can justify their corrupt and dictatorial regimes.
Jews to Judea, Arabs to Arabia. It?s really a simple concept.
Jews to Judea. Interesting. Does that mean all Jews? Including the ones in the US and Europe?
Irish to Ireland, British to Britain. If necessary, by force as done by both Arabs and Jews. Well the British are still in Northern Ireland so may I assume you support the IRA? Terrorists as you would call them?
Anyway, back to my point. Again you are telling me how the Arabs are trying to take your land and how they have evil regimes etc. Are you trying to prove me right? Tell me some things Israel has done wrong? Most of all, tell me some things Israel can do to achieve peace. Trust me mate, Israel will never achieve victory in this war, nor will the Arabs. Peace, a treaty and cutting your losses is the best you can get.
I'm just happy a growing number of people in the occupied part of my country is starting to understand that.
I will, and have in plenty of posts, pointed out the wrongdoings of the British. But I will never let those obstruct reason in a discussion because it doesn't solve anything. Nor will I deny the wrongdoings by my own people.
I am ready for peace mate. I am aching for it. You, obviously, are not. You can stop blaming the Arabs for not wanting it, even if all of them did, you still wouldn't want it.
It's a small group of people that want to keep this conflict going, and you're part of it.
Tell me some things Israel has done wrong? Most of all, tell me some things Israel can do to achieve peace.
I?ve already posted similar thoughts elsewhere on this board, but here we go again.
Israel has made a cardinal mistake trying to accommodate the Arab population within its borders. I believe Israel should aggressively use psychological, economic, and other pressures to disconnect these populations from its land. Contrary to popular belief, these Arab populations are nothing more than economic parasites, attracted to area by Israel?s economic success.
In terms of policy, I think Israel is correct in building a fence. This will have significant implications on these populations, and in a decade or so you will start to see the drying up of this population as they move along to greener pastures.
And you are absolutely correct. I do not yearn for peace with Arabs/Muslims. Israel has little to gain from such mind-set, and a lot to lose.
mika.
PS. I really like your sig. "WHEN THE LAW BREAKERS ARE THE LAW MAKERS THERE IS NO LAW". Someone should mark it on UN buildings.
Your real question is: Are only the French this dumb? The answer's no surprise. You said it: "Foreign rights have also been sold in 16 countries (a Spanish version is already on sale), and Mr. Meyssan traveled to Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates in April to present his arguments at a local university". Go to any country in the Middle East from Saudi "NIMBY" Arabia on. Doesn't surprise me people buy this horseshit.
[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: fantastic happy dinner man ]</p>
I believe Israel should aggressively use psychological, economic, and other pressures to disconnect these populations from its land. Contrary to popular belief, these Arab populations are nothing more than economic parasites, attracted to area by Israel?s economic success.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wish there was a smilie weeping with its head in its... er, hands.
How about the Arabs whose families have lived contiguously in that area (now called Israel) since before it existed?
Would you apply this same ethnic cleansing (because that's what you're describing) to them to get rid of them, even though they weren't "attracted" by Israel's economic anything (THEY WERE THERE ALREADY).
Simple question, simple answer please. I want to see how deep this goes with you.
1) You have twice chosen not to deny you are proposing ethnic cleansing -- by which I infer you admit that's what you're proposing.
2) You chose not to answer my question ("Can you see why many people have a problem with ethnic cleansing?").
You're very different to me and every single person I love. You are only no different to people who propose or proposed ethnic cleansing:
Adolf Hitler for example.
For once, it is not an over-the-top insult or provocative slander to say this, nor insulting to the memories of people like my grandfather's family, dead in a Lithuanian ditch.
You are proposing a 'solution' (ethnic cleansing) to a 'problem' that comes from the same mindset as the Nazis.
I find it a little disingenuous of you to criticize me for this, since the Arabs have been practicing this for centuries and still go on practicing this. Yet you turn a blind eye to their practices. However, when I propose a similar strategy be adopted by Israel you become all indignant. You stink of duplicity and double standard, Sir.
<strong>I find it a little disingenuous of you to criticize me for this, since the Arabs have been practicing this for centuries and still go on practicing this. Yet you turn a blind eye to their practices. However, when I propose a similar strategy be adopted by Israel you become all indignant. You stink of duplicity and double standard, Sir.
Comments
What happened on 9/11 is not 100% the 'fault of Muslims'?!? What the hell are you on? Are you trying to say the US deserved it? They need to lock you up! You?re not fit to walk the streets, you dumb ass.
mika.
[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
No, no-one deserves what happened on 9/11. Re-reading my post I notice I didn't mention 9/11.
There's a difference between the emotional / moral "deserve" and being partly causally "responsible." For example, if I call you a bigot and a loony and I know you're a psycho, I "deserve" to be called to account and to explain myself. I'm partly "responsible" if you instead post over-emotional, angry things on the web about me even if I do not deserve it ... I should know 100% this is going to happen and if I want to avoid it I should take a different tack to achieve my aims.
Regarding the Taliban, if I buy someone a gun, train him how to use it even though I know he's a sick bastard and do nothing while he does bad things ... and then, later, decide he's my enemy, a percentage of the responsibility for him killing people (even my friends) it is partly mine.
Hence it isn't 100% the fault of Islam.
Hence Muslims aren't 100% bad.
Actually I know you know this already ... I guess I'm pushing my luck by trying to get you see that "we" got ourselves into "this mess" partly by our actions and not 100% those of others.
No, no-one deserves what happened on 9/11. Re-reading my post I notice I didn't mention 9/11.
This thread *is* about 9/11.
quote
There's a difference between the emotional / moral "deserve" and being partly causally "responsible." For example, if I call you a bigot and a loony and I know you're a psycho, I "deserve" to be called to account and to explain myself. I'm partly "responsible" if you instead post over-emotional, angry things on the web about me even if I do not deserve it ... I should know 100% this is going to happen and if I want to avoid it I should take a different tack to achieve my aims.
So. YouÂ?re saying IÂ?m right calling you a dumb ass. Man, you are a real push-over. YouÂ?re too soft for this world, Harald.
quote
Regarding the Taliban, if I buy someone a gun, train him how to use it even though I know he's a sick bastard and do nothing while he does bad things ... and then, later, decide he's my enemy, a percentage of the responsibility for him killing people (even my friends) it is partly mine.
According to this logic you would be against any kind of appeasement policy. This is interesting, because, thatÂ?s not the impression I got from reading your posts.
quote
Actually I know you know this already ... I guess I'm pushing my luck by trying to get you see that "we" got ourselves into "this mess" partly by our actions and not 100% those of others.
How do we get ourselves out of this mess? Just curious what your solution would be vis-Ã*-vis Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudia, Arafat, etc. It sounds like it would be even more hard-line than Sharon and Bush.
mika.
[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
I have to say this man. You are part of the problem. You are intent on blaming one side of the conflict rather than accepting that where two people, or two parties, fight there are two to be blamed. This stubborness means that there will never be a peaceful solution because rather than concentrating on what you can contribute to peace, you concentrate on what others are not.
Once again, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. You are.
Jews to Judea, Arabs to Arabia. It?s really a simple concept.
mika.
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>Much of the problem in the middle East stems from the fact that after the second worls war NATO divided up much of Palestine and gave land to the Jews.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes it's true, but NATO was right to do this : during the genocide more than 7 millions of jews where killed (perhaps for you it's just a member but it's imply that entire jews family where anhilated, and that most jews have one of few member of his family killed in WW2, some others survive but where shocked for their entire life after the time they spent in a concentration camp).
I think that giving land to the jews was the least that world can do for them ( a very little compensation). A land for them was the warranty that these people can leave in safety under their own governement without being prosecuted for the simple fact to be a jew.
Perhaps the initial plan of the NATO take not enought warranty , but as i say everyday to some of my patients who want to know everything of their future we should have all a crytal ball.
Israel has the Moral right to exist since his beginning (and now he exist, and this question is no more relevant than to ask if US or France has the right to exist)
I would just add that Palestine in my opinion have the right to exist but they choose a bad way with terrorism. My major criticism against the jew governement is their politic of settlements. This has been dealt many times here on AI, i will not discuss it more time, but as you are new here Vargas, i just wanted to precise my opinion.
[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: powerdoc ]</p>
<strong>You read my posts, so know how stubborn I am. You?d also know that I?m a fair person, and call things as they are. But I?m not going to let the Ishmaelites get away with trying to steal our land. They have plenty of land of their own. They don?t need ours. The only reason they maintain this conflict is so that they can justify their corrupt and dictatorial regimes.
Jews to Judea, Arabs to Arabia. It?s really a simple concept.
mika.
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jews to Judea. Interesting. Does that mean all Jews? Including the ones in the US and Europe?
Irish to Ireland, British to Britain. If necessary, by force as done by both Arabs and Jews. Well the British are still in Northern Ireland so may I assume you support the IRA? Terrorists as you would call them?
Anyway, back to my point. Again you are telling me how the Arabs are trying to take your land and how they have evil regimes etc. Are you trying to prove me right? Tell me some things Israel has done wrong? Most of all, tell me some things Israel can do to achieve peace. Trust me mate, Israel will never achieve victory in this war, nor will the Arabs. Peace, a treaty and cutting your losses is the best you can get.
I'm just happy a growing number of people in the occupied part of my country is starting to understand that.
I will, and have in plenty of posts, pointed out the wrongdoings of the British. But I will never let those obstruct reason in a discussion because it doesn't solve anything. Nor will I deny the wrongdoings by my own people.
I am ready for peace mate. I am aching for it. You, obviously, are not. You can stop blaming the Arabs for not wanting it, even if all of them did, you still wouldn't want it.
It's a small group of people that want to keep this conflict going, and you're part of it.
Tell me some things Israel has done wrong? Most of all, tell me some things Israel can do to achieve peace.
I?ve already posted similar thoughts elsewhere on this board, but here we go again.
Israel has made a cardinal mistake trying to accommodate the Arab population within its borders. I believe Israel should aggressively use psychological, economic, and other pressures to disconnect these populations from its land. Contrary to popular belief, these Arab populations are nothing more than economic parasites, attracted to area by Israel?s economic success.
In terms of policy, I think Israel is correct in building a fence. This will have significant implications on these populations, and in a decade or so you will start to see the drying up of this population as they move along to greener pastures.
And you are absolutely correct. I do not yearn for peace with Arabs/Muslims. Israel has little to gain from such mind-set, and a lot to lose.
mika.
PS. I really like your sig. "WHEN THE LAW BREAKERS ARE THE LAW MAKERS THERE IS NO LAW". Someone should mark it on UN buildings.
[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: fantastic happy dinner man ]</p>
<strong>quote
I believe Israel should aggressively use psychological, economic, and other pressures to disconnect these populations from its land. Contrary to popular belief, these Arab populations are nothing more than economic parasites, attracted to area by Israel?s economic success.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wish there was a smilie weeping with its head in its... er, hands.
[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: Hassan i-Sabbah ]</p>
How about the Arabs whose families have lived contiguously in that area (now called Israel) since before it existed?
Would you apply this same ethnic cleansing (because that's what you're describing) to them to get rid of them, even though they weren't "attracted" by Israel's economic anything (THEY WERE THERE ALREADY).
Simple question, simple answer please. I want to see how deep this goes with you.
[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>
mika.
[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>I would treat them in exactly same way as the Jews of Arabia have been treated.
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In that case you're every bit as bad as they are.
It's funny, other people in the world have a problem with ethnic cleansing.
My next question:
Can you see why other people in the world have a problem with ethnic cleansing (which you don't deny you are proposing)?
<strong>
In that case you're every bit as bad as they are.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I?m no different than anyone else.
mika.
<strong>
I?m no different than anyone else.
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
1) You have twice chosen not to deny you are proposing ethnic cleansing -- by which I infer you admit that's what you're proposing.
2) You chose not to answer my question ("Can you see why many people have a problem with ethnic cleansing?").
You're very different to me and every single person I love. You are only no different to people who propose or proposed ethnic cleansing:
Adolf Hitler for example.
For once, it is not an over-the-top insult or provocative slander to say this, nor insulting to the memories of people like my grandfather's family, dead in a Lithuanian ditch.
You are proposing a 'solution' (ethnic cleansing) to a 'problem' that comes from the same mindset as the Nazis.
[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>
mika.
[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>I find it a little disingenuous of you to criticize me for this, since the Arabs have been practicing this for centuries and still go on practicing this. Yet you turn a blind eye to their practices. However, when I propose a similar strategy be adopted by Israel you become all indignant. You stink of duplicity and double standard, Sir.
mika.
[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
But Mika, Mika, why is bad when the Arabs do it and OK when you want to do it?