HP exec dismisses Apple and Intel's Thunderbolt in favor of USB 3.0

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 132
    dagamer34dagamer34 Posts: 494member
    In other words, no point sticking in a port for peripherals that don't exist yet. That Intel chip still costs them money. If it were $20/chip * 15 million devices, that's $300 million that HP would rather keep to itself until Thunderbolt really takes off.



    Remember that there's no point in sticking in this port unless other competitors are doing so also. In HP's consumer market segment, people aren't going to be buying $1,000+ RAID systems that would actually take advantage of the port.
  • Reply 42 of 132
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm amazed so many are looking at Thunderbot like it's FireWire simply because it is supported by Apple. Don't forget that Apple was the first major vendor to go all in with USB and that seems to have been somewhat successful.



    And on Apple computers, Firewire was and is a great success.
  • Reply 43 of 132
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 2,462member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by svesan03 View Post


    HP sticks with USB 3.0... Quelle surprise! Why go fast when you can go slow as they always say! Of course their printers are pretty slow (they're good, but slow)



    Once Memjet Technology releases the new line of commercial and home printers on America's markets through their partners, HP will no longer be in the printing business and if they don't get up to speed, they won't be in the laptop business any more either.



    I'm chomping at the bit for a Memjet printer... his res inkjet, 60 pages a minute full color, and refill your own cartridges on the cheap rather than buying OEM cartridges from HP!!! The first printer is out in China and coming here soon if the Gods are willing!!!



    How I hate inkjet printers, their problems are specialized paper, clogged heads, constant head cleansing, calibration, and the list goes on. I'll take a laser over an inkjet any day.
  • Reply 44 of 132
    imoanimoan Posts: 56member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post


    I really hope it's not another FireWire.



    It is. Unless they put this thing on an iPad or an iPhone no one is going to adopt it. iOs is the only place Apple rules the marketplace. As far as firewire is concerned, even Apple themselves stopped putting firewire on their laptops for a time.



    What ticks me off here is that Apple didn't include flash on iOS because, according to Jobs, they have a finite amount of resources and personnel and they want to focus attention on emerging technologies that have a future.



    You can't tell me USB is done for. It's everywhere. (Much like Flash.) Apple can't really expect everyone to toss out every camera, printer, hard drive, iPod in favor of this lightning bolt stuff.



    Even if it's wayyy better than USB, it's not compelling enough of a feature to make people run out and buy a new computer.



    So in the end, Thundercat is going to be a waste of time and resources.
  • Reply 45 of 132
    chudqchudq Posts: 43member
    I think that what we see thunderbolt is just tip of iceberg. Apple has spent a lot of efforts and investment into this technology. The coming Lions Mac OX will support Thunderbolt from OS low level which is the way to access to the peripherals. In addition to that, there will API available from OS to control and access to Thunderbolt. We'll hear more from WWDC.



    We'll see other Mac OS based products coming out with Thunderbolt port (like MacBook Air, MacBook and Mini). When iOS has similar low level support and APIs, iPad and iPhone will have it. You just cannot add this kind of port if you don't have any support from OS!



    HP has no way to provide good support for Thunderbolt if their PCs are Windows based. That's why HP has no choice to move to USB 3.0.
  • Reply 46 of 132
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,822member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iMoan View Post


    So in the end, Thundercat is going to be a waste of time and resources.



    Thundercat perhaps but not Thunderbolt.
  • Reply 47 of 132
    bwikbwik Posts: 565member
    So basically, Apple users will be stuck using USB 2.0 for years to come, for their external hard drives? Or what? That's what I use now for Time Machine. It's not great AT ALL.
  • Reply 48 of 132
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post


    Not necessarily for speed, but for removing USB from laptops altogether and sticking with one port style. I guess Apple will also have to convert their mice and keyboards too \



    I don't see why they'd do that. Do you have a supporting argument as to why you think they'd go that route?



    Note that despite their support for FireWire they still use USB for many parts of the Mac. For instance, BlueTooth, IR Reciever, notebook keyboard and trackpad, SD card reader, and iSight camera are all off the USB bus.
  • Reply 49 of 132
    Quote:

    P may not even be around in a couple of years. That's how well they're doing. So I wouldn't put much (well, ANY) trust in their assessment of anything.



    Much like Firewire, Thuderbolt, the Cube, etc.



    Quote:

    If HP doesn't support what is clearly a superior technology, then let them rot in their own offal



    What use is superior if there is nothing available for using that superiority?

    At least HP has machines with BluRay tech. Where is that option for the fruit??



    Quote:

    I really hope it's not another FireWire.



    With no support outside the fruit and intel, it is. With no standard backing, it is.

    History has a tendency to repeat.



    Quote:

    Once Memjet Technology releases the new line of commercial and home printers on America's markets through their partners, HP will no longer be in the printing business and if they don't get up to speed, they won't be in the laptop business any more either.



    I'm chomping at the bit for a Memjet printer... his res inkjet, 60 pages a minute full color, and refill your own cartridges on the cheap rather than buying OEM cartridges from HP!!! The first printer is out in China and coming here soon if the Gods are willing!!!



    wtf is Memjet? Do you remember Thermal transfer and the other printing tech available in the 90s?? Where are those tech now?



    Quote:

    Apple should include Thunderbolt in all devices, to avoid repetating the Firewire fiasco.



    Chicken and egg. More than 2/3 of the iOS userbase is on Windows PCs. There is less than 1% of Windows PCs released today with Thunderbolt port. Nobody will buy add-on cards for Thunderbolt ports. Thuderbolt is just useless!! Everything is USB! USB works FINE!!
  • Reply 50 of 132
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Hardly anybody supported USB before Apple put it on its iMac. By not supporting it, HP is preventing customers from future options when Thunderbolt becomes popular.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post


    The thing is, if not many companies are using it -- not just PC's but companies that make HD Recorders and external hard drives don't support it, then why should a company like HP support it?



  • Reply 51 of 132
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post


    Sure, as my screen name implies I love Mac…



    Your posts imply your name is ironic.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bwik View Post


    So basically, Apple users will be stuck using USB 2.0 for years to come, for their external hard drives? Or what? That's what I use now for Time Machine. It's not great AT ALL.



    Why don’t you think Apple will support USB3.0 when it comes to Ivy Bridge?
  • Reply 52 of 132
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,949member
    Apple innovates, others wait and see.
  • Reply 53 of 132
    rabbit_coachrabbit_coach Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dualie View Post


    Yeah but can I still get a floppy drive?



    You just have to tweak your floppy drive to run 2'000 rps, and plug your nose (might get smelly after a few secs.)
  • Reply 54 of 132
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    Hardly anybody supported USB before Apple put it on its iMac. By not supporting it, HP is preventing customers from future options when Thunderbolt becomes popular.



    By the time Intel supports it in the chipset HP will have changed their tune.
  • Reply 55 of 132
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Honestly? You put a just released technology along with Firewire and the Cube? Further, Firewire is still around. It is used by many folks, including myself. It is one of the cool Mac features I use to sell people on Macs. People are impressed by the whole target disk mode capacity, which can't be replicated with USB. Further, it is very useful for trouble shooting purposes to be able to treat a Mac as a second hard drive to another Mac. Firewire is also used on high end cameras and hardware where fast transfer speeds are important.





    As far as no support goes, big companies like Canon, Nikon, and Seagate have all committed to shipping Thunderbolt able products (that is just a small sampling). When those products hit the market, HP customers just buying a new computer are going to feel sad that they can't use those products to their full advantage.



    Why would Apple want to lock down its products with DRM to appease a limited amount of people who want to use Blue Ray on their Macs? The DRM effects OS performance even when Blue Rays aren't playing. No thanks. If I wanted Blue Ray, which I don't, I could buy a third party external drive. Problem solved.





    USB may be on all computers, but that is for two reasons. First, Intel didn't want to pay Apple's penny a port license fee to use superior Firewire. Intel was frightened of Firewire because it is so far ahead of USB (still is), it actively tried to kill it. Second, some brave company took a risk on adding USB support to their computers when nobody else supported it. Yes, that company was Apple.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins View Post


    Much like Firewire, Thuderbolt, the Cube, etc.





    What use is superior if there is nothing available for using that superiority?

    At least HP has machines with BluRay tech. Where is that option for the fruit??





    With no support outside the fruit and intel, it is. With no standard backing, it is.

    History has a tendency to repeat.









    Chicken and egg. More than 2/3 of the iOS userbase is on Windows PCs. There is less than 1% of Windows PCs released today with Thunderbolts. Everything is USB!



  • Reply 56 of 132
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm amazed so many are looking at Thunderbot like it's FireWire simply because it is supported by Apple. Don't forget that Apple was the first major vendor to go all in with USB and that seems to have been somewhat successful.



    That's not quite what happened. However, the truth is somewhat more compelling. The iMac was the first Mac with USB. By the time that Apple put the iMac on the market, most PC OEMs featured USB, many with multiple USB ports. However, no PC OEM went with USB exclusively. USB was in addition to PS/2 for keyboards and mice, parallel ports for printers, and RS-232 ports for modems. As a result, most customers continued to use parallel printers and PS/2 keyboards and mice. Despite the fact that these PCs featured USB ports, many did not include the drivers to enable the ports. If you wanted to use a USB peripheral, then you had to down USB driver(s) from Microsoft. Did I say that USB was kind of flaky? Well, USB was kind of flaky.



    Apple took a dramatically different approach. USB was not an additional port on the iMac and the Macs that followed. USB replaced the Apple Desktop Bus and RS-232 ports. If you wanted to print from your Mac, the it was USB, Ethernet, or FireWire. If you wanted to connect your keyboard, mouse, or modem, then it was USB exclusively. What is more, USB actually worked on the iMac. Apple overcame the flakiness that PC users experienced.



    Before the iMac, USB was floundering. People debated USB and FireWire, but USB were little used. With the advent of the iMac, this changed. Peripheral manufacturers now had a certain market for their USB products. More USB products came to market. Customers understood that with Apple's support, USB would be around for a while. They were more comfortable in replacing RS-232, PS/2, and parallel port devices with USB devices.
  • Reply 57 of 132
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins View Post


    Much like Firewire, Thuderbolt, the Cube, etc.





    What use is superior if there is nothing available for using that superiority?

    At least HP has machines with BluRay tech. Where is that option for the fruit??





    With no support outside the fruit and intel, it is. With no standard backing, it is.

    History has a tendency to repeat.





    Chicken and egg. More than 2/3 of the iOS userbase is on Windows PCs. There is less than 1% of Windows PCs released today with Thunderbolt port. Nobody will buy add-on cards for Thunderbolt ports. Thuderbolt is just useless!! Everything is USB! USB works FINE!!



    Seriously, Bluray? USB is good enough?



    Do you just love moving copious amounts of data with slow, archaic methods? Why store data in discs which are pricey, use physical space, can get lost/scratched, deteriorate over time, are harder to duplicate and will obviously become obsolete? Most of us store our data on huge external hard drives, where daisy chaining is highly preferable and high throughput is incredibly valuable (read, thunderbolt way more useful than USB)
  • Reply 58 of 132
    ezduzitezduzit Posts: 158member
    the last great (sarcastic) hp decision was to turn back their license to sell apple ipods after they made a deal with hp.



    those hpods that were sold must be collectors items now.
  • Reply 59 of 132
    hittrj01hittrj01 Posts: 753member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post


    Not necessarily for speed, but for removing USB from laptops altogether and sticking with one port style. I guess Apple will also have to convert their mice and keyboards too \



    Convert them to what? They are already bluetooth, and it's not as if USB will be going away. AFAIK, Apple didn't pull USB ports off of their computers, they are just adding a complementary port that is much better suited for high transfer rates. USB is still plenty good enough and already widely supported for devices like keyboards, mice, printers, etc.
  • Reply 60 of 132
    paulmjohnsonpaulmjohnson Posts: 1,380member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post


    I really hope it's not another FireWire.



    My guess is that one of the key differences this time is Apple have the critical mass to get Thunderbolt going.



    Firewire was onto a hiding to nothing when it came out with only really Apple supporting it, because Apples market share at the time was as good as zero.



    Now however, with approaching 10% of the US market, there is enough people with Macs to justify the peripheral manufacturers putting the effort in.



    I think both will survive side by side.
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