Were you referring to your own post regarding factual errors?
1. Let's simplify the point.
- Winphone: "Separate OS-version based versions of apps"
- iOS: not
The mere fact that we're having any discussion about separate versions, developing multiple versions and user selection/restriction… therein lies the entire point.
See, you've apparently gotten it all sorted out, which then makes it seem simple to you. Personally, I've got better things to do with my time than apply learning curve to smartphone app & OS updates. The underlying point here is, Apple users are supported in that. MS users, not so much.
2. OK, so explain the info-graphic included inline with the article? User information. Version selection. Learning curve. Hmmm... which one is right for me? Your info, or DED's info?
3. If a developer is continuing to support their own product, then their product will run on all the most current versions of iOS (current meaning, 3.x and 4.x). When people say "all", they're referring to "active" versions. We're not talking about legacy 2.x and earlier… I'm pretty sure almost no-one uses those anymore. Dead like Latin. They're irrelevant to the discussion.
4. OSX Apps (meaning the executable binary code) remain in their packages. It's an extremely rare (and probably slightly dangerous case) if they don't.
Apps do indeed add DATA to shared folders, and so on. e.g. Preferences and Application Support data. One example: Final Cut will setup a folder hierarchy in the USER (not SYSTEM) Documents folder. This is not "spread out like Windows"… Look, I used Windows for years… what OSX does ain't NOTHING like that! (Forgive the idiomatics.)
Many OSX Apps do in fact include uninstallers. But when a user uninstalls something, chances are they don't want all of that app's created data to go with it. Manually uninstalling on OSX is extremely easy:
- Delete app.
- Delete data from a few consistent and known locations, if you don't need it.
It doesn't actually take any longer than the "usually incomplete app removal & uninstallation process" of Windows… seriously. Think Spotlight?
We have a lot of control over these things in OSX (and almost none whatsoever in iOS, which I personally consider a good thing). I want my "smartphones/mobile devices" to behave smartly... The less I have to think about and/or manage how those devices work, the better…
MS has never made it "easy". It's part of why I'm probably a permanent convert to OSX/iOS...
1. Lets simplify it even more,
Windows: Separate version of an app handled by the marketplace
iOS: Separate versions contained in a universal binary
In both cases the end user only see's 1 version
2. The graphic is the one from the Windows Phone Dev blog illustrating how you should display which features of your app are 7.5 only and which are in both. So that's everything is in a nice standard way.
For example if you downloaded an iPhone app that had images showing in app payments but you downloaded it on an iPhone 3G which doesn't support this you may be confused. If the image had a standard tag like in MS's example you would understand that you need to update your phone OS first.
3. I'm not even going back as far as version 2. Version 4.2 of iOS is not going to run an app with in-app payments. Any app that uses a feature from the latest OS is not going to run on a version of the OS that doesn't have the feature. Instead when you try to download it you get a message saying to update your phone first.
4. Exactly my point OS X does have shared folders that store data. It doesn't matter what it is that it stores outside the app, it still does it and the user still doesn't know about it. I've never had an issue with Windows installing files to different locations and I've never really had an issue with OS X doing this with data. The only difference I've experienced is with OS X having to do a search to find all the files a programs left behind when I don't want it any more, whereas with Windows the uninstaller generally clears everything up for you.
Lastly are universal binaries really that great? Instead of downloading the version for your phone, you download every version in one package so the correct one can be worked out and installed by your phone, bit of a waste of bandwidth. Also from the perspective of submitting updates to an app. Lets say I originally made my app for iOS 3 and have now updated it for iOS 4, my universal binary still contains the iOS 3 version for compatibility with iOS 3 but I've stopped making updates to it. The app is stable and the new features I'm adding require iOS 4 so the iOS 3 version stays the same. Each time I submit my app to Apple they must now be re-testing the iOS 3 version because they don't know if it's changed or not. I then have to wait for them to do this before they release it to the app store, when iOS 5 comes out they will then be testing 3 apps taking 3 times as long. My iOS 3 users are also therefore receiving and update notification because the one package in the app store has been updated and is therefore new to download. They are then downloading it and re-installing exactly the same version that's already on their phone.
Windows: Separate version of an app handled by the marketplace
iOS: Separate versions contained in a universal binary
So it looks like WP7 actually has a pretty efficient solution. Letting the app store manage which resources are required for a given device seems to make more sense than downloading a whole bunch of stuff that isn't required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84
2. The graphic is the one from the Windows Phone Dev blog illustrating how you should display which features of your app are 7.5 only and which are in both. So that's everything is in a nice standard way.
Again, that sounds like a very good idea. Having a standard way of telling a user what functions are not available on their device version will cause less confusion than not telling them anything and letting them work it out themselves.
This article misrepresents Windows Phone 7. Here are some facts that were left out:
1. By the beginning of October, most existing Windows Phone 7 devices will be automatically updated to 7.5 (yes, 7.5 is a software update).
2. To allow developers to work on 7.5 apps before the 7.5 update releases, Microsoft has asked developers to pre-update their phone, and if they want to take advantage of features available in 7.5 that were not in 7.0, then re-compile and release their 7.5 apps, but still allow their 7.0 apps to be available until the update happens for all customers.
3. Windows Phone 7.5, will, without any modification, run all Windows Phone 7.0 apps.
4. By the end of October, 7.0 apps will still exist and can still run on Windows Phone 7.5 and will still show up in the Marketplace. However, if you want to update your app, then Microsofts asks that you recompile it for Windows 7.5 after that date to take advantage of new efficiencies in the new version, while still leaving your 7.0 app in the marketplace for those who are unable to update to Mango by the end of October.
How is any of this unreasonable? The "fragmentation" mentioned only exists for developers and those unable to get the Mango update on time, and is only temporary. It seems reasonable to me that developers are given the update first so they can have a jump start on developing for new features available in the new platform. The Windows Marketplace hides 7.5 apps from a Windows 7.0 device until that device is updated to 7.5, so there is no need to sift through version numbers. 7.5 devices will see both 7.0-only and 7.5 apps in the Marketplace, because both will run perfectly on 7.5. If there is a 7.5 version and a 7.0 version of the same app available, then the 7.5 version will be the one that shows up in the marketplace for 7.5 phones.
I repeat: 7.5 is a mandatory update for all Windows Phone 7 devices, already released to carriers and manufacturers for distribution by October. There are some countries/carriers that can lag behind for this update, so the need arises to cater to those that are unable to update by October. There is no fragmentation here. Move on.
That's partially because Microsoft hasn't given any reason for us not to kick dirt in their eyes. Microsoft so far has let us down in the tablet and phone market. And the desktop market, well, we know how they've acted in the past...
what are you kidding me??
have you seen the w8 tablet? lol Ipad looks like a fisher price toy beside it.
How is this different from Engadget and Gizmodo? Oh wait, they're actually wrong most of the time, and pile on snarky to absurd levels. DED is deadly spot on 95% of the time. What gets complained about as "bias" is almost always just a correct assessment in the face of windbags blowing hype for Microsoft.
This isn't OSNews or ZDNet writing up insanity biased against Apple, every last bit of which has been wrong. This is actually correct writing. DED has a stellar track record of getting things right.
The AI trolls who complain about his stuff immediately change the subject once it becomes obviously he was correct front the start. That's easy to do when you have a site like AI allowing people to use phony names to leave comments. And its why the web is gravitating toward real names in Facebook and Google+ and most reputable sites' comments.
Too bad AI continues to harbor a gaggle of anonymous trolls posting stupidity that sidetracks all the smart comments.
LOL! Your fanboy rage is HILARIOUS
Show me a positive article about Microsoft here, and your point is still only slightly valid.
MY point was that this is an APPLE SITE, for APPLE NEWS, and the only news about Microsoft is handpicked, and it's always NEGATIVE. They do this for a reason, to TROLL THE INTERNET.
You just said they harbor a gaggle of trolls, when in reality, they THEMSELVES are trolls, and your comment alone is trollish as hell
What a pointless response, seriously. You basically just cried because people complained that an article like this simply doesn't belong here. "BUT I WANNA MAKE FUN OF THE MICROSOFT. THEY AREN'T APPLE! WAAAAAAA"
As a Microsoft and apple engineer I find it amazing how people like to bend the truth. You make it sound like the 7.0 apps won't run on 7.5. Well I have been running the beta for months and I can assure you that every app I have tried, whether for 7 or 7.5 works great. As far as how the new windows phone 7.5 is, well let's just say I think it is the first real competition for ios. I have iPhone, windows phone and android phone. To me the only reason to get an android was if you were not on att and could not get an iPhone. Android has some benefits over ios but not enough to make it a better platform. But this new windows phone is just so different. Since running the mango update it has become my daily use business device. Even my wife, a graphic artist of 25 years and an apple only user is giving up her iPhone for a windows phone. I am not saying it is an ios killer but certainly a viable option, and for myself, a heavy business user, a better option.
No dealing with widgets or apps in order to be functional for daily life. It just works the way it is. Everything I need to know is available right in front of me with details available with one touch.
As far as windows 8, well so far it is what I hoped it would be. Similar to windows phone without requiring apps or third party programs.
Wow. its almost as if DED magically "forgot" that Apple has its own major fragmentation issue: "lite" versions. iOS app developers have to release a trial version of their apps with features sucked out of them, just so that customers can try out a weak version of their product. Besides giving consumers weak sample products, it also bloats the app store. On Windows 8, Microsoft will let developers release ONE app, and include a full-featured trial version with a set trial period. Microsoft obviously has the better approach here, but you'd never hear about that on good ole Apple Insider.
Well 7.5 will only work on Mango, but that's the point of the article. Users will see two apps and decide which they need to install. The market won't even just automatically sort that out for them. What happens when 7.6 and 7.7 ship, a long list of app versions to manage?
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- If it is an update to an existing app then only 1 entry appears in the app store but you get the version your phone supports (they recomend you specify what features are 7.5 only in the description)
Wrong, look at the graphic.
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- Update notifications only go to 7.5 users if there's only an update to 7.5
Wow that's handy! And noted in the article. But users still have to shop through multiple versions to decide which one they need. Maybe not an issue for a full time nerd, but its not an experience suitable for the general public. Which is kind of the point.
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- All version 7 apps will work on 7.5
So again, users will have to sort out which apps have been Mango-adapted and pick and chose updates. iOS users can simply "update all" and their apps are kept up to date. This is just another barrier for WP7 adoption. It doesn't need barriers! There's already near zero installed base, Microsoft has to start making it easier to use, not harder than the competition! That's the point mr obtuse troll.
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So by the sounds of things the only potential difference to the user is that they won't be able to see apps that won't work on their phone, which isn't the case with IOS.
No, you've gotten it all backwards. The difference is the WP7 app experience is as convoluted and confusing as Windows CE was ten years ago, except that now Microsoft is competing against a good platform, and needs to actually perform. It's not.
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All the crap about universal binaries is completely irrelevant as the only way to get an app is through the app store which handles any compatibility issues for your phone.
Again, completely wrong. What you don't get is what Microsoft isn't getting. And the most notable problem isn't WP7, which hardly matters, but rather Windows 8, which will introduce the same problem with its desktop/metro, x86/ARM, and 32/64-bit fragments. There will be at least 8 types of apps, some of which will work on some tablets, some of which won't.
Apple has one iOS app package and one Mac OS package, and its really clear which works on which devices. Copy all your apps to your phone and your tablet and they just work. Nobody has anything that works that well. Even Android has barriers between Android 2.x smartphones and 3.x tablets.
Wow. its almost as if DED magically "forgot" that Apple has its own major fragmentation issue: "lite" versions. iOS app developers have to release a trial version of their apps with features sucked out of them, just so that customers can try out a weak version of their product. Besides giving consumers weak sample products, it also bloats the app store. On Windows 8, Microsoft will let developers release ONE app, and include a full-featured trial version with a set trial period. Microsoft obviously has the better approach here, but you'd never hear about that on good ole Apple Insider.
That's not an example of fragmentation. Show me a user confused about the concept of loading a free trial.
Deciding which executable version works on your CPU/OS version is potentially confusing problem for many users. A demo vs full version is not. And it "bloats" the App Store? wow you are really grasping at straws. If this is the best you can do to argue against a DED article, he must be right.
As a Microsoft and apple engineer I find it amazing how people like to bend the truth. You make it sound like the 7.0 apps won't run on 7.5. Well I have been running the beta for months and I can assure you that every app I have tried, whether for 7 or 7.5 works great.
The article made it very clear that 7.0 apps simply don't take advantage of 7.5 features. But because they can't be distributed together, and because the 7.5 app won't work on newer phones, the user is tasked with doing version control management for their apps. You might not understand why this is a problem as a Microsoft engineer, but it's because iOS users expect to have ~100 or so apps that can update themselves without this sort of nonsense. Or the malware nonsense of Android.
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As far as how the new windows phone 7.5 is, well let's just say I think it is the first real competition for ios. I have iPhone, windows phone and android phone. To me the only reason to get an android was if you were not on att and could not get an iPhone. Android has some benefits over ios but not enough to make it a better platform. But this new windows phone is just so different. Since running the mango update it has become my daily use business device. Even my wife, a graphic artist of 25 years and an apple only user is giving up her iPhone for a windows phone. I am not saying it is an ios killer but certainly a viable option, and for myself, a heavy business user, a better option.
No dealing with widgets or apps in order to be functional for daily life. It just works the way it is. Everything I need to know is available right in front of me with details available with one touch.
As far as windows 8, well so far it is what I hoped it would be. Similar to windows phone without requiring apps or third party programs.
So the main benefit to WP7 is that you "don't have to deal with apps?" I though you were going to reveal actual benefits of the platform. I think if there were any, we'd see WP7 selling to somebody besides WP7 developers. I sure haven't.
Show me a positive article about Microsoft here, and your point is still only slightly valid.
MY point was that this is an APPLE SITE, for APPLE NEWS, and the only news about Microsoft is handpicked, and it's always NEGATIVE. They do this for a reason, to TROLL THE INTERNET.
You just said they harbor a gaggle of trolls, when in reality, they THEMSELVES are trolls, and your comment alone is trollish as hell
What a pointless response, seriously. You basically just cried because people complained that an article like this simply doesn't belong here. "BUT I WANNA MAKE FUN OF THE MICROSOFT. THEY AREN'T APPLE! WAAAAAAA"
How would one write a positive article about Microsoft in the mobile or desktop consumer space without lying? Windows has plateaued and is in such a bad position that the company has announced a full abandonment of Win32 with a future pinned at a webOS knockoff sporting the Zune look. WP7 is completely dead. You'd have to be lying to generate such a "positive" article about MS' situation right now.
That said, why would you expect that a tech blog that has accurately projected trends would be delivering the kind of "everything is good in its own way" kind of namby-pamby BS that sites like Engadget poop out? They're actually wrong most of the time. Gizmodo invented AntennaGate. Had zero impact on iPhone 4 being the most popular phone over the next year and a half.
You want to read lies that make you happy? Lots of sites for that. Why do you want AI to be a source of pleasant/smart-mouthed inaccuracy rather than biting truth?
And where's your reputation for ever having gotten anything right?
Have you even read anything Dilger has written in the past few weeks?
He said Microsoft copied the Metro UI from Apple
(this is a lie)
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and was laughed at in the comments. Then he made assertions that the Metro UI was "web-based" and a "layer" laid over classic Windows 7
(Metro is a layer on top of Windows 7. Turn it off, and you have Windows 7)
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, again he was smashed in the comments.
Next up was the article saying "Windows 8 tablets won't actually run Windows apps".
(again, you are wrong. He pointed out that ARM tablets won't run x86 apps, and that x86 desktop apps are not trivial to port)
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Again he was put in his place by users that actually know the difference between ARM and x86.
(this is a lie)
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The came his masterpiece, an article written about the future product direction of Office based on a quote he attributed to Ballmer that was actually said by someone else that isn't even a Microsoft employee!
(this is a lie)
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To top it off Dilger decided he shouldn't even update the article to fix this fundamental mistake.
(this is a lie)
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This last one, I think, requires a little more thought. Could you imagine if a mainstream political commentator wrote an entire article about the future direction of the Democratic Party based on quotes miss-attributed to Obama that were actually said by McCain?
Could you imagine then if said political commentator decided that, after finding out his mistake, the article didn't need to be updated?
How would you categorize such a person? Arrogant? A tool perhaps? Maybe just plain old stupid?
(that would be awful, but that's not what happened here)
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Anyway, I digress. Now I'm no professor of mathematics but I believe your "95% correct" statement is a bit off. By my count Dilger hasn't hit the mark once in recent times.
(this is your unsubstantiated opinion after producing a lot of lies)
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However somewhere in this article there could be his first win!
He has shown a complete lack of understanding of how 32-bit and 64-bit applications are generally installed on Windows.
(this is a lie)
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His assertion that a "similar wait and see problems existed for WP7" ignores the real world where the WP7 marketplace has hit 30,000 apps in just 10 months (iPhone took 8 months, and Android 17).
(this is phony; nobody is buying WP7 hardware. There are 300k apps for Android too; they're mostly all garbage, ringtones and wallpapers. WP7 doesn't have great apps)
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Dilger has also shown he doesn't understand the fundamental concepts of how this WP7 update process works.
(this is a lie)
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If a user is on WP v7 they can't run an app targeted at WP v7.5 and at the moment an app in the app store can only target one OS version (i.e. WP v7 or WP v7.5).
However this all changes at the end of October when a developer will be able to target both OS versions in the app store.
(that's not even the issue. The issue is that WP7 users get a Windows CE experience of having to manage which apps to install based on their OS level. They can't update all)
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It's all transparent to the user they just get told "you can't have these features until you update your OS" which is reasonable and the same as iOS.
(this is a lie, iOS App Store doesn't present multiple versions)
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The approach between iPhone and WPx is different (i.e. version control in the app package vs version control in the app store) but the end result is the same.
(this is wrong)
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Dilger's logic jump that because WPx works a certain way Windows 8 will as well is also a long shot.
(this is a poor leap of faith)
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At the moment we don't even know if Windows 8 on ARM will have a "classic" desktop and if it does how app deployment will work (i.e. will appx be supported for "classic" apps, will the Windows 8 app store transparently direct the user to the correct download for their system architecture and version etc).
(it's pretty clear Micorosft is not going to break tradition and release some magical Apple experience after doing this for WinNT, WinCE, Win/x64, XP/Itanium, and now Win8 ARM/x86 and Win8 Metro/desktop. Do you want to bet your credibility? I didn't think so, anonymous troll.)
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On second thoughts, it looks like Dilger's first win probably won't be in this article!
Because every complaint you raised was ignorant and wrong.
Well 7.5 will only work on Mango, but that's the point of the article. Users will see two apps and decide which they need to install. The market won't even just automatically sort that out for them. What happens when 7.6 and 7.7 ship, a long list of app versions to manage?
Wrong, look at the graphic.
Wow that's handy! And noted in the article. But users still have to shop through multiple versions to decide which one they need. Maybe not an issue for a full time nerd, but its not an experience suitable for the general public. Which is kind of the point.
So again, users will have to sort out which apps have been Mango-adapted and pick and chose updates. iOS users can simply "update all" and their apps are kept up to date. This is just another barrier for WP7 adoption. It doesn't need barriers! There's already near zero installed base, Microsoft has to start making it easier to use, not harder than the competition! That's the point mr obtuse troll.
No, you've gotten it all backwards. The difference is the WP7 app experience is as convoluted and confusing as Windows CE was ten years ago, except that now Microsoft is competing against a good platform, and needs to actually perform. It's not.
Again, completely wrong. What you don't get is what Microsoft isn't getting. And the most notable problem isn't WP7, which hardly matters, but rather Windows 8, which will introduce the same problem with its desktop/metro, x86/ARM, and 32/64-bit fragments. There will be at least 8 types of apps, some of which will work on some tablets, some of which won't.
Apple has one iOS app package and one Mac OS package, and its really clear which works on which devices. Copy all your apps to your phone and your tablet and they just work. Nobody has anything that works that well. Even Android has barriers between Android 2.x smartphones and 3.x tablets.
What you don't understand and what the article fails to mention is that 7.5 (i.e. Mango) is an update that will be rolled out to all existing Windows 7 Phones (most of them by the end of October). Because some carriers will lag behind, it is necessary for the app store to support 7.0 apps until the update is fully rolled out. This whole versioning management thing is TEMPORARY, and only for those unfortunate enough to have a cell phone provider that doesn't deliver the update by the end of October. To repeat: There is NO FRAGMENTATION. All devices, both new Mango phones coming out, and all existing devices since Windows 7 Phone was introduced, will be running 7.5 (Mango). Mango is 100% compatible and runs all apps, regardless of whether they are 7 or 7.5.
This whole article is poorly researched or is designed to misinform/create issues that aren't relevent.
All Microsoft is saying to developers is that because a worldwide simultaneous rollout of Mango is not possible, developers, should they choose to get their Mango app out the door sooner rather than later, should be prepared to provide a 7.0 version of their app in addition to the 7.5 version so people who haven't received the update yet aren't left behind. In a month or two, this won't even be an issue or a consideration. Anything more or less than this is BS.
Well 7.5 will only work on Mango, but that's the point of the article. Users will see two apps and decide which they need to install. The market won't even just automatically sort that out for them. What happens when 7.6 and 7.7 ship, a long list of app versions to manage?
No they won't. They will see 1 app with 1 download button. Depending on which version of WP7 they have, they will get a different app.
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Originally Posted by Corrections
Wrong, look at the graphic.
Looking at the graphic, it doesn't have any download buttons on it. I'm running Mango on my phone with the new design of marketplace and guess what, there's only 1 download button!
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Originally Posted by Corrections
Wow that's handy! And noted in the article. But users still have to shop through multiple versions to decide which one they need. Maybe not an issue for a full time nerd, but its not an experience suitable for the general public. Which is kind of the point.
Again, no they don't. Show me anywhere, where Microsoft have actually said they will have to choose a version. Everything they have said so far indicates 1 version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
So again, users will have to sort out which apps have been Mango-adapted and pick and chose updates. iOS users can simply "update all" and their apps are kept up to date. This is just another barrier for WP7 adoption. It doesn't need barriers! There's already near zero installed base, Microsoft has to start making it easier to use, not harder than the competition! That's the point mr obtuse troll.
WP7 has the same update all button.
Seriously guys rather than just reading DED's article which is wrong and then repeating the same incorrect facts, actually read the MS blog posts to see what they actually say.
What you don't understand and what the article fails to mention is that 7.5 (i.e. Mango) is an update that will be rolled out to all existing Windows 7 Phones (most of them by the end of October). Because some carriers will lag behind, it is necessary for the app store to support 7.0 apps until the update is fully rolled out. This whole versioning management thing is TEMPORARY, and only for those unfortunate enough to have a cell phone provider that doesn't deliver the update by the end of October. To repeat: There is NO FRAGMENTATION. All devices, both new Mango phones coming out, and all existing devices since Windows 7 Phone was introduced, will be running 7.5 (Mango). Mango is 100% compatible and runs all apps, regardless of whether they are 7 or 7.5.
This whole article is poorly researched or is designed to misinform/create issues that aren't relevent.
All Microsoft is saying to developers is that because a worldwide simultaneous rollout of Mango is not possible, developers, should they choose to get their Mango app out the door sooner rather than later, should be prepared to provide a 7.0 version of their app in addition to the 7.5 version so people who haven't received the update yet aren't left behind. In a month or two, this won't even be an issue or a consideration. Anything more or less than this is BS.
Once a 7.5 version app is published in the App Hub market, developers won't be able to fix bugs or add features to their existing 7.0 version. However, existing phone users also won't be able to run the new 7.5 version, as each major build of Windows Phone is tied to a matching app version. The WP7 market will display a list of app types for the users to select between, and users upgrading to 7.5 Mango will get updates telling them to download the new version of each app as it becomes available.
This is incorrect. Developers will be able to target and update both 7.0 apps and 7.5 apps.
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Most of Apple's iOS users also update their apps far more often than "every three to four months," thanks to the design of the iOS App Store, which encourages frequent app updates by making the deployment and installation of apps simple for both developers and end users.
Marketplace has a similar notification system for apps updates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
Well 7.5 will only work on Mango, but that's the point of the article. Users will see two apps and decide which they need to install. The market won't even just automatically sort that out for them. What happens when 7.6 and 7.7 ship, a long list of app versions to manage?
No. Users will only see ONE version. If users are on 7.0, they will only see 7.0 app.
Users on 7.5 will only see the 7.5 app UNLESS 7.5 app is not available in which case see the 7.0 app.
If users are on 7.5 and both 7.5 app and 7.0 app are available ONLY the 7.5 app will be visible.
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Originally Posted by Corrections
Wrong, look at the graphic.
The graphic is only used to show users on 7.0 why some features are not available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
Wow that's handy! And noted in the article. But users still have to shop through multiple versions to decide which one they need. Maybe not an issue for a full time nerd, but its not an experience suitable for the general public. Which is kind of the point.
No. The marketplace will automatically decide which version to install and the app only appear once in the marketplace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
So again, users will have to sort out which apps have been Mango-adapted and pick and chose updates. iOS users can simply "update all" and their apps are kept up to date. This is just another barrier for WP7 adoption. It doesn't need barriers! There's already near zero installed base, Microsoft has to start making it easier to use, not harder than the competition! That's the point mr obtuse troll.
No, they do not. Marketplace will automatically update the app to the latest version compatible with that version of the OS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
Apple has one iOS app package and one Mac OS package, and its really clear which works on which devices. Copy all your apps to your phone and your tablet and they just work. Nobody has anything that works that well. Even Android has barriers between Android 2.x smartphones and 3.x tablets.
This is a none issue because all Windows Phone can update to 7.5. Besides, marketplace will automatically decide the correct version app to install.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
The article made it very clear that 7.0 apps simply don't take advantage of 7.5 features. But because they can't be distributed together, and because the 7.5 app won't work on newer phones, the user is tasked with doing version control management for their apps. You might not understand why this is a problem as a Microsoft engineer, but it's because iOS users expect to have ~100 or so apps that can update themselves without this sort of nonsense. Or the malware nonsense of Android.
Like I said before, the marketplace will automatically install 7.5 app to 7.5 phones unless 7.5 app is not available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
That's not an example of fragmentation. Show me a user confused about the concept of loading a free trial.
It's just easier to have the same app have free trial and paid instead of two apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections
Deciding which executable version works on your CPU/OS version is potentially confusing problem for many users. A demo vs full version is not. And it "bloats" the App Store? wow you are really grasping at straws. If this is the best you can do to argue against a DED article, he must be right.
It's bloated in the sense that some apps are counted twice. Once for "lite" and once for "paid". Those apps are only count once in Marketplace.
It's just easier to have the same app have free trial and paid instead of two apps.
It's bloated in the sense that some apps are counted twice. Once for "lite" and once for "paid". Those apps are only count once in Marketplace.[/QUOTE]
Hey, thanks for explaining that for me! I was very surprised that i'd have to explain how making developers deliver TWO VERSIONS OF THE SAME APP bloats the app store, but you saved me the trouble!
What you don't understand and what the article fails to mention is that 7.5 (i.e. Mango) is an update that will be rolled out to all existing Windows 7 Phones (most of them by the end of October). Because some carriers will lag behind, it is necessary for the app store to support 7.0 apps until the update is fully rolled out. This whole versioning management thing is TEMPORARY, and only for those unfortunate enough to have a cell phone provider that doesn't deliver the update by the end of October. To repeat: There is NO FRAGMENTATION. All devices, both new Mango phones coming out, and all existing devices since Windows 7 Phone was introduced, will be running 7.5 (Mango). Mango is 100% compatible and runs all apps, regardless of whether they are 7 or 7.5.
This whole article is poorly researched or is designed to misinform/create issues that aren't relevent.
All Microsoft is saying to developers is that because a worldwide simultaneous rollout of Mango is not possible, developers, should they choose to get their Mango app out the door sooner rather than later, should be prepared to provide a 7.0 version of their app in addition to the 7.5 version so people who haven't received the update yet aren't left behind. In a month or two, this won't even be an issue or a consideration. Anything more or less than this is BS.
Glad to see someone on here has a modicum of understanding. Well said. I'm going to point out one other little fact to add to your statement. Developers asked for the ability to still provide updates to the pre-mango apps. Microsoft actually changed the policy after many, many requests by their developer community for this functionality. Obviously, the reasons why developers would still want to update non-Mango handsets are obvious. Not everyone will be running the new version of the OS and they still want to be able to add to and improve their apps for those who haven't updated yet or haven't been offerered the update yet. Kind of common sense, isn't it? They keep all of those using their apps happy and that generates more attention and profit from their work.
Too bad some of the people posting here don't do a little reading and researching before they espouse their very wrong opinions. Even more shameful, that the article's writer didn't either or like you said, the article was designed to misinform/create issues (little change here, I won't say relevant) that simply aren't factual. Either that or the writer simply thought that no one would call them on their misinformation.
Comments
Were you referring to your own post regarding factual errors?
1. Let's simplify the point.
- Winphone: "Separate OS-version based versions of apps"
- iOS: not
The mere fact that we're having any discussion about separate versions, developing multiple versions and user selection/restriction… therein lies the entire point.
See, you've apparently gotten it all sorted out, which then makes it seem simple to you. Personally, I've got better things to do with my time than apply learning curve to smartphone app & OS updates. The underlying point here is, Apple users are supported in that. MS users, not so much.
2. OK, so explain the info-graphic included inline with the article? User information. Version selection. Learning curve. Hmmm... which one is right for me? Your info, or DED's info?
3. If a developer is continuing to support their own product, then their product will run on all the most current versions of iOS (current meaning, 3.x and 4.x). When people say "all", they're referring to "active" versions. We're not talking about legacy 2.x and earlier… I'm pretty sure almost no-one uses those anymore. Dead like Latin. They're irrelevant to the discussion.
4. OSX Apps (meaning the executable binary code) remain in their packages. It's an extremely rare (and probably slightly dangerous case) if they don't.
Apps do indeed add DATA to shared folders, and so on. e.g. Preferences and Application Support data. One example: Final Cut will setup a folder hierarchy in the USER (not SYSTEM) Documents folder. This is not "spread out like Windows"… Look, I used Windows for years… what OSX does ain't NOTHING like that! (Forgive the idiomatics.)
Many OSX Apps do in fact include uninstallers. But when a user uninstalls something, chances are they don't want all of that app's created data to go with it. Manually uninstalling on OSX is extremely easy:
- Delete app.
- Delete data from a few consistent and known locations, if you don't need it.
It doesn't actually take any longer than the "usually incomplete app removal & uninstallation process" of Windows… seriously. Think Spotlight?
We have a lot of control over these things in OSX (and almost none whatsoever in iOS, which I personally consider a good thing). I want my "smartphones/mobile devices" to behave smartly... The less I have to think about and/or manage how those devices work, the better…
MS has never made it "easy". It's part of why I'm probably a permanent convert to OSX/iOS...
1. Lets simplify it even more,
Windows: Separate version of an app handled by the marketplace
iOS: Separate versions contained in a universal binary
In both cases the end user only see's 1 version
2. The graphic is the one from the Windows Phone Dev blog illustrating how you should display which features of your app are 7.5 only and which are in both. So that's everything is in a nice standard way.
For example if you downloaded an iPhone app that had images showing in app payments but you downloaded it on an iPhone 3G which doesn't support this you may be confused. If the image had a standard tag like in MS's example you would understand that you need to update your phone OS first.
3. I'm not even going back as far as version 2. Version 4.2 of iOS is not going to run an app with in-app payments. Any app that uses a feature from the latest OS is not going to run on a version of the OS that doesn't have the feature. Instead when you try to download it you get a message saying to update your phone first.
4. Exactly my point OS X does have shared folders that store data. It doesn't matter what it is that it stores outside the app, it still does it and the user still doesn't know about it. I've never had an issue with Windows installing files to different locations and I've never really had an issue with OS X doing this with data. The only difference I've experienced is with OS X having to do a search to find all the files a programs left behind when I don't want it any more, whereas with Windows the uninstaller generally clears everything up for you.
Lastly are universal binaries really that great? Instead of downloading the version for your phone, you download every version in one package so the correct one can be worked out and installed by your phone, bit of a waste of bandwidth. Also from the perspective of submitting updates to an app. Lets say I originally made my app for iOS 3 and have now updated it for iOS 4, my universal binary still contains the iOS 3 version for compatibility with iOS 3 but I've stopped making updates to it. The app is stable and the new features I'm adding require iOS 4 so the iOS 3 version stays the same. Each time I submit my app to Apple they must now be re-testing the iOS 3 version because they don't know if it's changed or not. I then have to wait for them to do this before they release it to the app store, when iOS 5 comes out they will then be testing 3 apps taking 3 times as long. My iOS 3 users are also therefore receiving and update notification because the one package in the app store has been updated and is therefore new to download. They are then downloading it and re-installing exactly the same version that's already on their phone.
1. Lets simplify it even more,
Windows: Separate version of an app handled by the marketplace
iOS: Separate versions contained in a universal binary
So it looks like WP7 actually has a pretty efficient solution. Letting the app store manage which resources are required for a given device seems to make more sense than downloading a whole bunch of stuff that isn't required.
2. The graphic is the one from the Windows Phone Dev blog illustrating how you should display which features of your app are 7.5 only and which are in both. So that's everything is in a nice standard way.
Again, that sounds like a very good idea. Having a standard way of telling a user what functions are not available on their device version will cause less confusion than not telling them anything and letting them work it out themselves.
1. By the beginning of October, most existing Windows Phone 7 devices will be automatically updated to 7.5 (yes, 7.5 is a software update).
2. To allow developers to work on 7.5 apps before the 7.5 update releases, Microsoft has asked developers to pre-update their phone, and if they want to take advantage of features available in 7.5 that were not in 7.0, then re-compile and release their 7.5 apps, but still allow their 7.0 apps to be available until the update happens for all customers.
3. Windows Phone 7.5, will, without any modification, run all Windows Phone 7.0 apps.
4. By the end of October, 7.0 apps will still exist and can still run on Windows Phone 7.5 and will still show up in the Marketplace. However, if you want to update your app, then Microsofts asks that you recompile it for Windows 7.5 after that date to take advantage of new efficiencies in the new version, while still leaving your 7.0 app in the marketplace for those who are unable to update to Mango by the end of October.
How is any of this unreasonable? The "fragmentation" mentioned only exists for developers and those unable to get the Mango update on time, and is only temporary. It seems reasonable to me that developers are given the update first so they can have a jump start on developing for new features available in the new platform. The Windows Marketplace hides 7.5 apps from a Windows 7.0 device until that device is updated to 7.5, so there is no need to sift through version numbers. 7.5 devices will see both 7.0-only and 7.5 apps in the Marketplace, because both will run perfectly on 7.5. If there is a 7.5 version and a 7.0 version of the same app available, then the 7.5 version will be the one that shows up in the marketplace for 7.5 phones.
I repeat: 7.5 is a mandatory update for all Windows Phone 7 devices, already released to carriers and manufacturers for distribution by October. There are some countries/carriers that can lag behind for this update, so the need arises to cater to those that are unable to update by October. There is no fragmentation here. Move on.
So what's with the FUD?
it's fun to poke holes in phony BS. it's fun to tease all the people hyping whatever
Agreed.
That's partially because Microsoft hasn't given any reason for us not to kick dirt in their eyes. Microsoft so far has let us down in the tablet and phone market. And the desktop market, well, we know how they've acted in the past...
what are you kidding me??
have you seen the w8 tablet? lol Ipad looks like a fisher price toy beside it.
How is this different from Engadget and Gizmodo? Oh wait, they're actually wrong most of the time, and pile on snarky to absurd levels. DED is deadly spot on 95% of the time. What gets complained about as "bias" is almost always just a correct assessment in the face of windbags blowing hype for Microsoft.
This isn't OSNews or ZDNet writing up insanity biased against Apple, every last bit of which has been wrong. This is actually correct writing. DED has a stellar track record of getting things right.
The AI trolls who complain about his stuff immediately change the subject once it becomes obviously he was correct front the start. That's easy to do when you have a site like AI allowing people to use phony names to leave comments. And its why the web is gravitating toward real names in Facebook and Google+ and most reputable sites' comments.
Too bad AI continues to harbor a gaggle of anonymous trolls posting stupidity that sidetracks all the smart comments.
LOL! Your fanboy rage is HILARIOUS
Show me a positive article about Microsoft here, and your point is still only slightly valid.
MY point was that this is an APPLE SITE, for APPLE NEWS, and the only news about Microsoft is handpicked, and it's always NEGATIVE. They do this for a reason, to TROLL THE INTERNET.
You just said they harbor a gaggle of trolls, when in reality, they THEMSELVES are trolls, and your comment alone is trollish as hell
What a pointless response, seriously. You basically just cried because people complained that an article like this simply doesn't belong here. "BUT I WANNA MAKE FUN OF THE MICROSOFT. THEY AREN'T APPLE! WAAAAAAA"
No dealing with widgets or apps in order to be functional for daily life. It just works the way it is. Everything I need to know is available right in front of me with details available with one touch.
As far as windows 8, well so far it is what I hoped it would be. Similar to windows phone without requiring apps or third party programs.
Going by the blog DEDs got this news from.
- 7.5 apps will only be availiable to mango users
Well 7.5 will only work on Mango, but that's the point of the article. Users will see two apps and decide which they need to install. The market won't even just automatically sort that out for them. What happens when 7.6 and 7.7 ship, a long list of app versions to manage?
- If it is an update to an existing app then only 1 entry appears in the app store but you get the version your phone supports (they recomend you specify what features are 7.5 only in the description)
Wrong, look at the graphic.
- Update notifications only go to 7.5 users if there's only an update to 7.5
Wow that's handy! And noted in the article. But users still have to shop through multiple versions to decide which one they need. Maybe not an issue for a full time nerd, but its not an experience suitable for the general public. Which is kind of the point.
- All version 7 apps will work on 7.5
So again, users will have to sort out which apps have been Mango-adapted and pick and chose updates. iOS users can simply "update all" and their apps are kept up to date. This is just another barrier for WP7 adoption. It doesn't need barriers! There's already near zero installed base, Microsoft has to start making it easier to use, not harder than the competition! That's the point mr obtuse troll.
So by the sounds of things the only potential difference to the user is that they won't be able to see apps that won't work on their phone, which isn't the case with IOS.
No, you've gotten it all backwards. The difference is the WP7 app experience is as convoluted and confusing as Windows CE was ten years ago, except that now Microsoft is competing against a good platform, and needs to actually perform. It's not.
All the crap about universal binaries is completely irrelevant as the only way to get an app is through the app store which handles any compatibility issues for your phone.
Again, completely wrong. What you don't get is what Microsoft isn't getting. And the most notable problem isn't WP7, which hardly matters, but rather Windows 8, which will introduce the same problem with its desktop/metro, x86/ARM, and 32/64-bit fragments. There will be at least 8 types of apps, some of which will work on some tablets, some of which won't.
Apple has one iOS app package and one Mac OS package, and its really clear which works on which devices. Copy all your apps to your phone and your tablet and they just work. Nobody has anything that works that well. Even Android has barriers between Android 2.x smartphones and 3.x tablets.
Wow. its almost as if DED magically "forgot" that Apple has its own major fragmentation issue: "lite" versions. iOS app developers have to release a trial version of their apps with features sucked out of them, just so that customers can try out a weak version of their product. Besides giving consumers weak sample products, it also bloats the app store. On Windows 8, Microsoft will let developers release ONE app, and include a full-featured trial version with a set trial period. Microsoft obviously has the better approach here, but you'd never hear about that on good ole Apple Insider.
That's not an example of fragmentation. Show me a user confused about the concept of loading a free trial.
Deciding which executable version works on your CPU/OS version is potentially confusing problem for many users. A demo vs full version is not. And it "bloats" the App Store? wow you are really grasping at straws. If this is the best you can do to argue against a DED article, he must be right.
As a Microsoft and apple engineer I find it amazing how people like to bend the truth. You make it sound like the 7.0 apps won't run on 7.5. Well I have been running the beta for months and I can assure you that every app I have tried, whether for 7 or 7.5 works great.
The article made it very clear that 7.0 apps simply don't take advantage of 7.5 features. But because they can't be distributed together, and because the 7.5 app won't work on newer phones, the user is tasked with doing version control management for their apps. You might not understand why this is a problem as a Microsoft engineer, but it's because iOS users expect to have ~100 or so apps that can update themselves without this sort of nonsense. Or the malware nonsense of Android.
As far as how the new windows phone 7.5 is, well let's just say I think it is the first real competition for ios. I have iPhone, windows phone and android phone. To me the only reason to get an android was if you were not on att and could not get an iPhone. Android has some benefits over ios but not enough to make it a better platform. But this new windows phone is just so different. Since running the mango update it has become my daily use business device. Even my wife, a graphic artist of 25 years and an apple only user is giving up her iPhone for a windows phone. I am not saying it is an ios killer but certainly a viable option, and for myself, a heavy business user, a better option.
No dealing with widgets or apps in order to be functional for daily life. It just works the way it is. Everything I need to know is available right in front of me with details available with one touch.
As far as windows 8, well so far it is what I hoped it would be. Similar to windows phone without requiring apps or third party programs.
So the main benefit to WP7 is that you "don't have to deal with apps?" I though you were going to reveal actual benefits of the platform. I think if there were any, we'd see WP7 selling to somebody besides WP7 developers. I sure haven't.
LOL! Your fanboy rage is HILARIOUS
Show me a positive article about Microsoft here, and your point is still only slightly valid.
MY point was that this is an APPLE SITE, for APPLE NEWS, and the only news about Microsoft is handpicked, and it's always NEGATIVE. They do this for a reason, to TROLL THE INTERNET.
You just said they harbor a gaggle of trolls, when in reality, they THEMSELVES are trolls, and your comment alone is trollish as hell
What a pointless response, seriously. You basically just cried because people complained that an article like this simply doesn't belong here. "BUT I WANNA MAKE FUN OF THE MICROSOFT. THEY AREN'T APPLE! WAAAAAAA"
How would one write a positive article about Microsoft in the mobile or desktop consumer space without lying? Windows has plateaued and is in such a bad position that the company has announced a full abandonment of Win32 with a future pinned at a webOS knockoff sporting the Zune look. WP7 is completely dead. You'd have to be lying to generate such a "positive" article about MS' situation right now.
That said, why would you expect that a tech blog that has accurately projected trends would be delivering the kind of "everything is good in its own way" kind of namby-pamby BS that sites like Engadget poop out? They're actually wrong most of the time. Gizmodo invented AntennaGate. Had zero impact on iPhone 4 being the most popular phone over the next year and a half.
You want to read lies that make you happy? Lots of sites for that. Why do you want AI to be a source of pleasant/smart-mouthed inaccuracy rather than biting truth?
And where's your reputation for ever having gotten anything right?
95%? Almost always a correct assessment?
Have you even read anything Dilger has written in the past few weeks?
He said Microsoft copied the Metro UI from Apple
(this is a lie)
and was laughed at in the comments. Then he made assertions that the Metro UI was "web-based" and a "layer" laid over classic Windows 7
(Metro is a layer on top of Windows 7. Turn it off, and you have Windows 7)
, again he was smashed in the comments.
Next up was the article saying "Windows 8 tablets won't actually run Windows apps".
(again, you are wrong. He pointed out that ARM tablets won't run x86 apps, and that x86 desktop apps are not trivial to port)
Again he was put in his place by users that actually know the difference between ARM and x86.
(this is a lie)
The came his masterpiece, an article written about the future product direction of Office based on a quote he attributed to Ballmer that was actually said by someone else that isn't even a Microsoft employee!
(this is a lie)
To top it off Dilger decided he shouldn't even update the article to fix this fundamental mistake.
(this is a lie)
This last one, I think, requires a little more thought. Could you imagine if a mainstream political commentator wrote an entire article about the future direction of the Democratic Party based on quotes miss-attributed to Obama that were actually said by McCain?
Could you imagine then if said political commentator decided that, after finding out his mistake, the article didn't need to be updated?
How would you categorize such a person? Arrogant? A tool perhaps? Maybe just plain old stupid?
(that would be awful, but that's not what happened here)
Anyway, I digress. Now I'm no professor of mathematics but I believe your "95% correct" statement is a bit off. By my count Dilger hasn't hit the mark once in recent times.
(this is your unsubstantiated opinion after producing a lot of lies)
However somewhere in this article there could be his first win!
He has shown a complete lack of understanding of how 32-bit and 64-bit applications are generally installed on Windows.
(this is a lie)
His assertion that a "similar wait and see problems existed for WP7" ignores the real world where the WP7 marketplace has hit 30,000 apps in just 10 months (iPhone took 8 months, and Android 17).
(this is phony; nobody is buying WP7 hardware. There are 300k apps for Android too; they're mostly all garbage, ringtones and wallpapers. WP7 doesn't have great apps)
Dilger has also shown he doesn't understand the fundamental concepts of how this WP7 update process works.
(this is a lie)
If a user is on WP v7 they can't run an app targeted at WP v7.5 and at the moment an app in the app store can only target one OS version (i.e. WP v7 or WP v7.5).
However this all changes at the end of October when a developer will be able to target both OS versions in the app store.
(that's not even the issue. The issue is that WP7 users get a Windows CE experience of having to manage which apps to install based on their OS level. They can't update all)
It's all transparent to the user they just get told "you can't have these features until you update your OS" which is reasonable and the same as iOS.
(this is a lie, iOS App Store doesn't present multiple versions)
The approach between iPhone and WPx is different (i.e. version control in the app package vs version control in the app store) but the end result is the same.
(this is wrong)
Dilger's logic jump that because WPx works a certain way Windows 8 will as well is also a long shot.
(this is a poor leap of faith)
At the moment we don't even know if Windows 8 on ARM will have a "classic" desktop and if it does how app deployment will work (i.e. will appx be supported for "classic" apps, will the Windows 8 app store transparently direct the user to the correct download for their system architecture and version etc).
(it's pretty clear Micorosft is not going to break tradition and release some magical Apple experience after doing this for WinNT, WinCE, Win/x64, XP/Itanium, and now Win8 ARM/x86 and Win8 Metro/desktop. Do you want to bet your credibility? I didn't think so, anonymous troll.)
On second thoughts, it looks like Dilger's first win probably won't be in this article!
Because every complaint you raised was ignorant and wrong.
Well 7.5 will only work on Mango, but that's the point of the article. Users will see two apps and decide which they need to install. The market won't even just automatically sort that out for them. What happens when 7.6 and 7.7 ship, a long list of app versions to manage?
Wrong, look at the graphic.
Wow that's handy! And noted in the article. But users still have to shop through multiple versions to decide which one they need. Maybe not an issue for a full time nerd, but its not an experience suitable for the general public. Which is kind of the point.
So again, users will have to sort out which apps have been Mango-adapted and pick and chose updates. iOS users can simply "update all" and their apps are kept up to date. This is just another barrier for WP7 adoption. It doesn't need barriers! There's already near zero installed base, Microsoft has to start making it easier to use, not harder than the competition! That's the point mr obtuse troll.
No, you've gotten it all backwards. The difference is the WP7 app experience is as convoluted and confusing as Windows CE was ten years ago, except that now Microsoft is competing against a good platform, and needs to actually perform. It's not.
Again, completely wrong. What you don't get is what Microsoft isn't getting. And the most notable problem isn't WP7, which hardly matters, but rather Windows 8, which will introduce the same problem with its desktop/metro, x86/ARM, and 32/64-bit fragments. There will be at least 8 types of apps, some of which will work on some tablets, some of which won't.
Apple has one iOS app package and one Mac OS package, and its really clear which works on which devices. Copy all your apps to your phone and your tablet and they just work. Nobody has anything that works that well. Even Android has barriers between Android 2.x smartphones and 3.x tablets.
What you don't understand and what the article fails to mention is that 7.5 (i.e. Mango) is an update that will be rolled out to all existing Windows 7 Phones (most of them by the end of October). Because some carriers will lag behind, it is necessary for the app store to support 7.0 apps until the update is fully rolled out. This whole versioning management thing is TEMPORARY, and only for those unfortunate enough to have a cell phone provider that doesn't deliver the update by the end of October. To repeat: There is NO FRAGMENTATION. All devices, both new Mango phones coming out, and all existing devices since Windows 7 Phone was introduced, will be running 7.5 (Mango). Mango is 100% compatible and runs all apps, regardless of whether they are 7 or 7.5.
This whole article is poorly researched or is designed to misinform/create issues that aren't relevent.
All Microsoft is saying to developers is that because a worldwide simultaneous rollout of Mango is not possible, developers, should they choose to get their Mango app out the door sooner rather than later, should be prepared to provide a 7.0 version of their app in addition to the 7.5 version so people who haven't received the update yet aren't left behind. In a month or two, this won't even be an issue or a consideration. Anything more or less than this is BS.
Well 7.5 will only work on Mango, but that's the point of the article. Users will see two apps and decide which they need to install. The market won't even just automatically sort that out for them. What happens when 7.6 and 7.7 ship, a long list of app versions to manage?
No they won't. They will see 1 app with 1 download button. Depending on which version of WP7 they have, they will get a different app.
Wrong, look at the graphic.
Looking at the graphic, it doesn't have any download buttons on it. I'm running Mango on my phone with the new design of marketplace and guess what, there's only 1 download button!
Wow that's handy! And noted in the article. But users still have to shop through multiple versions to decide which one they need. Maybe not an issue for a full time nerd, but its not an experience suitable for the general public. Which is kind of the point.
Again, no they don't. Show me anywhere, where Microsoft have actually said they will have to choose a version. Everything they have said so far indicates 1 version.
So again, users will have to sort out which apps have been Mango-adapted and pick and chose updates. iOS users can simply "update all" and their apps are kept up to date. This is just another barrier for WP7 adoption. It doesn't need barriers! There's already near zero installed base, Microsoft has to start making it easier to use, not harder than the competition! That's the point mr obtuse troll.
WP7 has the same update all button.
Seriously guys rather than just reading DED's article which is wrong and then repeating the same incorrect facts, actually read the MS blog posts to see what they actually say.
What you don't understand and what the article fails to mention is that 7.5 (i.e. Mango) is an update that will be rolled out to all existing Windows 7 Phones (most of them by the end of October). Because some carriers will lag behind, it is necessary for the app store to support 7.0 apps until the update is fully rolled out. This whole versioning management thing is TEMPORARY, and only for those unfortunate enough to have a cell phone provider that doesn't deliver the update by the end of October. To repeat: There is NO FRAGMENTATION. All devices, both new Mango phones coming out, and all existing devices since Windows 7 Phone was introduced, will be running 7.5 (Mango). Mango is 100% compatible and runs all apps, regardless of whether they are 7 or 7.5.
This whole article is poorly researched or is designed to misinform/create issues that aren't relevent.
All Microsoft is saying to developers is that because a worldwide simultaneous rollout of Mango is not possible, developers, should they choose to get their Mango app out the door sooner rather than later, should be prepared to provide a 7.0 version of their app in addition to the 7.5 version so people who haven't received the update yet aren't left behind. In a month or two, this won't even be an issue or a consideration. Anything more or less than this is BS.
Not bad for two posts. Welcome aboard!
Metro is a layer on top of Windows 7. Turn it off, and you have Windows 7
Seeing as the desktop doesn't even load until you click on it. Turn Metro off and your left with nothing.
So if Metro is running on code that isn't even loaded, that's some feckin magic there managing to pull off. No wonder it's so fast!!!
Once a 7.5 version app is published in the App Hub market, developers won't be able to fix bugs or add features to their existing 7.0 version. However, existing phone users also won't be able to run the new 7.5 version, as each major build of Windows Phone is tied to a matching app version. The WP7 market will display a list of app types for the users to select between, and users upgrading to 7.5 Mango will get updates telling them to download the new version of each app as it becomes available.
This is incorrect. Developers will be able to target and update both 7.0 apps and 7.5 apps.
Most of Apple's iOS users also update their apps far more often than "every three to four months," thanks to the design of the iOS App Store, which encourages frequent app updates by making the deployment and installation of apps simple for both developers and end users.
Marketplace has a similar notification system for apps updates.
Well 7.5 will only work on Mango, but that's the point of the article. Users will see two apps and decide which they need to install. The market won't even just automatically sort that out for them. What happens when 7.6 and 7.7 ship, a long list of app versions to manage?
No. Users will only see ONE version. If users are on 7.0, they will only see 7.0 app.
Users on 7.5 will only see the 7.5 app UNLESS 7.5 app is not available in which case see the 7.0 app.
If users are on 7.5 and both 7.5 app and 7.0 app are available ONLY the 7.5 app will be visible.
Wrong, look at the graphic.
The graphic is only used to show users on 7.0 why some features are not available.
Wow that's handy! And noted in the article. But users still have to shop through multiple versions to decide which one they need. Maybe not an issue for a full time nerd, but its not an experience suitable for the general public. Which is kind of the point.
No. The marketplace will automatically decide which version to install and the app only appear once in the marketplace.
So again, users will have to sort out which apps have been Mango-adapted and pick and chose updates. iOS users can simply "update all" and their apps are kept up to date. This is just another barrier for WP7 adoption. It doesn't need barriers! There's already near zero installed base, Microsoft has to start making it easier to use, not harder than the competition! That's the point mr obtuse troll.
No, they do not. Marketplace will automatically update the app to the latest version compatible with that version of the OS.
Apple has one iOS app package and one Mac OS package, and its really clear which works on which devices. Copy all your apps to your phone and your tablet and they just work. Nobody has anything that works that well. Even Android has barriers between Android 2.x smartphones and 3.x tablets.
This is a none issue because all Windows Phone can update to 7.5. Besides, marketplace will automatically decide the correct version app to install.
The article made it very clear that 7.0 apps simply don't take advantage of 7.5 features. But because they can't be distributed together, and because the 7.5 app won't work on newer phones, the user is tasked with doing version control management for their apps. You might not understand why this is a problem as a Microsoft engineer, but it's because iOS users expect to have ~100 or so apps that can update themselves without this sort of nonsense. Or the malware nonsense of Android.
Like I said before, the marketplace will automatically install 7.5 app to 7.5 phones unless 7.5 app is not available.
That's not an example of fragmentation. Show me a user confused about the concept of loading a free trial.
It's just easier to have the same app have free trial and paid instead of two apps.
Deciding which executable version works on your CPU/OS version is potentially confusing problem for many users. A demo vs full version is not. And it "bloats" the App Store? wow you are really grasping at straws. If this is the best you can do to argue against a DED article, he must be right.
It's bloated in the sense that some apps are counted twice. Once for "lite" and once for "paid". Those apps are only count once in Marketplace.
It's bloated in the sense that some apps are counted twice. Once for "lite" and once for "paid". Those apps are only count once in Marketplace.[/QUOTE]
Hey, thanks for explaining that for me! I was very surprised that i'd have to explain how making developers deliver TWO VERSIONS OF THE SAME APP bloats the app store, but you saved me the trouble!
What you don't understand and what the article fails to mention is that 7.5 (i.e. Mango) is an update that will be rolled out to all existing Windows 7 Phones (most of them by the end of October). Because some carriers will lag behind, it is necessary for the app store to support 7.0 apps until the update is fully rolled out. This whole versioning management thing is TEMPORARY, and only for those unfortunate enough to have a cell phone provider that doesn't deliver the update by the end of October. To repeat: There is NO FRAGMENTATION. All devices, both new Mango phones coming out, and all existing devices since Windows 7 Phone was introduced, will be running 7.5 (Mango). Mango is 100% compatible and runs all apps, regardless of whether they are 7 or 7.5.
This whole article is poorly researched or is designed to misinform/create issues that aren't relevent.
All Microsoft is saying to developers is that because a worldwide simultaneous rollout of Mango is not possible, developers, should they choose to get their Mango app out the door sooner rather than later, should be prepared to provide a 7.0 version of their app in addition to the 7.5 version so people who haven't received the update yet aren't left behind. In a month or two, this won't even be an issue or a consideration. Anything more or less than this is BS.
Glad to see someone on here has a modicum of understanding. Well said. I'm going to point out one other little fact to add to your statement. Developers asked for the ability to still provide updates to the pre-mango apps. Microsoft actually changed the policy after many, many requests by their developer community for this functionality. Obviously, the reasons why developers would still want to update non-Mango handsets are obvious. Not everyone will be running the new version of the OS and they still want to be able to add to and improve their apps for those who haven't updated yet or haven't been offerered the update yet. Kind of common sense, isn't it? They keep all of those using their apps happy and that generates more attention and profit from their work.
Too bad some of the people posting here don't do a little reading and researching before they espouse their very wrong opinions. Even more shameful, that the article's writer didn't either or like you said, the article was designed to misinform/create issues (little change here, I won't say relevant) that simply aren't factual. Either that or the writer simply thought that no one would call them on their misinformation.