It's part and parcel of capitalism. What would you have them do with it?
Ummm invest it? Give it to the owners? Lower margins for market share? Just to name a few.
Jobs let it be known to save for a rainy day and not be held to standard wall street idiology(see above). Which is ok too. But how much is too much? With this much cash, IMO, they are both powerful and vulnerable.
I anyone else sort of uncomfortable that corporations can horde money like this?
Not in the slightest. Lots of cash on hand gives Apple the ability to make large strategic purchases in the future. That ability helps Apple, shareholders and users of Apple products.
Ummm invest it? Give it to the owners? Lower margins for market share? Just to name a few.
Jobs let it be known to save for a rainy day and not be held to standard wall street idiology(see above). Which is ok too. But how much is too much? With this much cash, IMO, they are both powerful and vulnerable.
I would appreciate an explanation for how their cash makes them vulnerable.
I assume you aren't talking about a hostile takeover to get at the cash, as least not at current market cap. I expect nobody in the world can come up with the ~$400B (?) it would take to acquire Apple and get at their cash.
However, if the rainy day that Apple is saving for ever comes, and their market cap drops to half or $200B, and they have $100B in the bank, hmmmm.
Apple got out of the manufacturing business a while ago (~2000?) and it has helped create tremendous profits for the company. The new CEO, Cook, was an important part of the move to, and success of, outsourcing manufacturing. It is very unlikely Apple will return to it anytime soon. However anything is possible for the most creative large company. Who would have expected a major PC maker to get into retail?????
Another issue is that the tools and facilities required to manufacture even Apple's huge quantities of components are hugely expensive (what is Samsung's 28 nm fab in Texas costing to build?) and will serve Apple's needs for only a few years. Thus it would be very difficult for Apple to recover the sunk costs in such a facility. For example, the fabs producing the 45 nm A4 chips (which has only been in production for ~20 months) may only have a year's worth of work left for Apple. Now, Samsung can use those older fabs to produce chips for low-cost Android phones and the like, but what would Apple possibly ever use them for? If Apple owned the fab they could lose a ton of money abandoning a very expensive facility that Apple can't use anymore.
Apple got out of manufacturing since they where a small company.
Now they are the third largest computer company and one of the biggest mobile device company in the world. Its a risk, but having own factories is always better for many reason.
The outsourcing craze in late 90 early 2000 have lead to so many companies loosing money. Its just short term thinking to boost the shares so that the CEO can get a bonus when they outsource. Out sourcing means that another company also needs to make profit.
The interesting thing is that Apple have taken small steps to design things in-house. The A class processor is an Apple design with ARM cores / PowerVR graphics. This have given Apple a huge edge over all other Android vendors. A5 is 30% larger/more expensive to manufacture then for example the Tegra2. These 30% Apple use for NEON SIMD/Visual engine/DSPs and dual channel memory.
Tegra2 does not have it. Since Nvidia needs to make a profit on Tegra they sell it for 25 dollar. Apple does not need to make a profit on A5, so they can manufacture it at 25 dollars.
The latest evidence that out sourcing is bad is AMD. AMD sold its factories for a shot time cash injections. Now Global foundries is killing AMD. GloFo can't produce enough Liano and have huge problems producing any Bulldozers. GloFo does not care about AMD. If AMD don't buy the wafers, someone else will. Therefore GloFo have no self interest in making AMD chips work.
We also have the backstabbing companies like Samsung. Apple helped Samsung build its factories. The famous 1 billion in Flash 2005. Apple buys Samsung parts for over 8 billion and are their largest customer. Was that enough for Samsung? No. They used many of the same parts and the same design to create its own competing products. That would never have happened if Apple had its own factories. Samsung also leaked iPhone/ipad parts to competitors.
FoxConn is an own chapter. Same factory that produce Apple stuff in the morning, produce Dell stuff in the evening. During the night they allegedly produce pirated Apple parts. (thats why pirated Apple stuff is 1:1 copies).
The only reason why all factories can't be in the US is because of the insane tax system. I don't want to go down in a political discussion. I think we can agree that an American worker is as good as a Chinese worker. The main reason why its cheaper to manufacture outside US is that those countries have 6-7% tax on average. US have 30. EU 45. My country have 56% (and 85% tax on "rich" people making more then 50K USD/year)
With high taxes, everything gets more expensive. To cover that expense, we need higher wages. Its a bad circle.
It is also strange that not one single American I have meet wants to cut down on US biggest expense: the military. US is to god hearted and wants to help to many people in the world. Think about your self!
So: Apple should build its own Foundry to make SSD/A class CPUs.
Assembly plants can also be in the US, but needs to have advance robot technology to keep down cost.
Nokia made 10 of billions on mobile phones that cost under 100 dollar. Why? They had their own factories. The new idiotic Nokia CEO have empty factories and buys Windows mobile phones from Korea = Rip Nokia.
I anyone else sort of uncomfortable that corporations can horde money like this?
No. Even if Apple have 81 billion: That would only cover 4 days of the US government spending. I hope that sets it in perspective.
Almost always private companies have a higher discipline when it comes to money. If you loose money you go bankrupt. So its in the companies interest to not have dept and take care of its payments.
Compare that to the government that spends trillions. 1000 times Apples cash hoard with money they lend. That is irresponsible. The reason for it is just like Reagan said in the 80is: You give budget for a department each year. If they don't use all money, their funding will be cut. Therefore each year every department waste money at the end of the year so that their funding won't be cut. If a department is so badly managed that they loose money, they often are rewarded with increased funding. That was the reason why Reagan gave back the surplus to the people. Its the peoples money. It should not be wasted.
Apple would lead US better then any of your parties can do.
The whole political system is now just like 2 teams that you cheer for.
Hint: No ism is right. No party is right. Always use evidence and facts. You should never have a fixed position. If someone can prove that you are wrong, admit it and change you position.
Companies making money is good. Everything you see around you is thanks to private companies. Every road. Every school. Everything. Government does not generate money.
Apple got out of manufacturing since they where a small company.
Now they are the third largest computer company and one of the biggest mobile device company in the world. Its a risk, but having own factories is always better for many reason.
The outsourcing craze in late 90 early 2000 have lead to so many companies loosing money. Its just short term thinking to boost the shares so that the CEO can get a bonus when they outsource. Out sourcing means that another company also needs to make profit.
What I have been trying to say (maybe not very clearly) is that Apple wants to use cutting-edge technologies and components in every single product. Apple would have no use for a fab that is only a few years old. By outsourcing to companies that can find other, profitable uses, for these older facilities and machines, Apple can have access to the newest technologies without the financial and management burden of owning the older plants.
Thus Apple can be very nimble, and through their huge volume orders get access to suppliers' latest and greatest stuff.
Somehow Apple is doing it right, unlike AMD. Perhaps your analysis is wrong, and it isn't so simple as you describe?
The factories that build their products need to be HERE.
There needs to be NO TAX BREAKS for companies putting their own interest over the country's.
See a pattern here?
Yes, the pattern is that so many of the AI whiners don't have any concept that the economy is now global. Apple is not a U.S. company - they are a true global enterprise. They sell more than half of their products outside the U.S., so revenues and profits are generated there.
In fact, the very fact that their 'outside the U.S.' cash is growing so fast indicates that sales outside the U.S. are growing rapidly. The only way Apple would stop generating 'foreign' cash is if they stopped selling outside the U.S. - which would be insanely stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15
Ummm invest it? Give it to the owners? Lower margins for market share? Just to name a few.
Jobs let it be known to save for a rainy day and not be held to standard wall street idiology(see above). Which is ok too. But how much is too much? With this much cash, IMO, they are both powerful and vulnerable.
Apple has done very well with my investment in their stock for the past 15 years. I trust them to handle my money and invest it where they think it can best be used. The minute I no longer believe that, I'll sell the stock.
It's not up to you to decide what Apple should do with the money - that's the Board's job. Your only role is to decide whether to buy their stock or not.
The factories that build their products need to be HERE.
There needs to be NO TAX BREAKS for companies putting their own interest over the country's.
See a pattern here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM
Samsung's 28 nm fab in Texas, which certainly is costing billions to build, will reportedly manufacture the A6. Apple doesn't have to own the factory for the components to be Made in the USA.
Note that the highest value part in the iPhone/iPad will be made in the USA by people making good wages, and will be shipped to China for assembly at Foxcon by workers making $2/hr. I don't think we want those jobs.
Precisely (minus the laughing). It's a misconception that many have in the developed world that desirable jobs are being lost to the developing world and ruining the manufacturing industries. High value manufacturing still takes place in the US and Europe. The CPUs are made here, the designs are drawn up here etc. Only the low value work of machining a case etc is outsourced abroad. Workers in the US would never work for the wages that workers in China, India and Mexico will. It's not as immoral as it seems. In these countries, what the likes of Apple and Nike etc pay for manufacturing low-value commodities is a more valuable wage.
People will queue up for jobs in these factories. Economically, these places are like Dickensian England where people expect unskilled work and don't expect the modern lifestyle that many of us do. It's not pretty, but it's the way economies work. There's nothing any of us can do about it. Apple can't change the global economic position of half the world population. If Apple don't send work to China, the workers in China won't have those jobs and they'll either earn nothing or work in another factory on the same money. They won't suddenly start earning $7 an hour at some other job because they weren't forced into a job at a factory. Jobs that pay that well simply don't exist in these counties for the majority its of the labour force, the economies aren't developed enough yet. Their economies depend on these manufacturing jobs.
It's how economies evolve. As they grow, the low value work is done by the less developed economies. Nobody weaves cotton in the NW of England any more. Instead, the English keep high-value service jobs and let less rich economies do the work they no longer want to do. If Apple opened an iPhone assembly plant in Bolton on Chinese wages, nobody would apply for a job there. If they paid minimum wage, the iPhones would cost twice as much, nobody would buy them and Apple would shut the factory down. It's nobody's fault, it's just economics.
Simply put, Apple can't bring these jobs back to the US, and you wouldn't want them to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15
Ummm invest it? Give it to the owners? Lower margins for market share? Just to name a few.
Jobs let it be known to save for a rainy day and not be held to standard wall street idiology(see above). Which is ok too. But how much is too much? With this much cash, IMO, they are both powerful and vulnerable.
How does having $80b make them vulnerable? I agree, it is silly not to invest it, but people make the assumption that Apple can invest it. Investing it for the sake of investing it is madness. The things they'd like to invest it in might not be allowed. Apple are the second largest company in the world now, the government won't just let them buy any company they choose. Giving the money to investors would be very nice though lol
Yes, the pattern is that so many of the AI whiners don't have any concept that the economy is now global. Apple is not a U.S. company - they are a true global enterprise. They sell more than half of their products outside the U.S., so revenues and profits are generated there.
In fact, the very fact that their 'outside the U.S.' cash is growing so fast indicates that sales outside the U.S. are growing rapidly. The only way Apple would stop generating 'foreign' cash is if they stopped selling outside the U.S. - which would be insanely stupid.
Apple has done very well with my investment in their stock for the past 15 years. I trust them to handle my money and invest it where they think it can best be used. The minute I no longer believe that, I'll sell the stock.
It's not up to you to decide what Apple should do with the money - that's the Board's job. Your only role is to decide whether to buy their stock or not.
However, it is your prerogative as a citizen to do this:
Apple should take some millions out of the many billions that they have and open up an awesome, world class Apple Museum, in some place important like NYC to start.
I like the idea but sorry. Any memorial or museum belongs where it all started. NFL and MLB halls of fame are in pretty obscure places but in their birthplaces.
It's not like the SF Bay Area is a poor place to travel either. There is plenty to see and do here (oops did I give away that I'm a local? sorry)
Nice thought but Apple isn't a person. It's a company with a duty to its shareholders. Any philanthropic deeds must be approved by the board and shareholders, I'm sure, or else you'd see shareholder lawsuits aplenty.
I like the idea but sorry. Any memorial or museum belongs where it all started. NFL and MLB halls of fame are in pretty obscure places but in their birthplaces.
It's not like the SF Bay Area is a poor place to travel either. There is plenty to see and do here (oops did I give away that I'm a local? sorry)
Haha, well I wanted it on the East Coast for my own selfish reasons, that's where I am.
Apple is so huge, that they can have more than one. A few in the US to start, one in Europe, one in Asia etc.
The only reason why all factories can't be in the US is because of the insane tax system. I don't want to go down in a political discussion. I think we can agree that an American worker is as good as a Chinese worker. The main reason why its cheaper to manufacture outside US is that those countries have 6-7% tax on average. US have 30. EU 45. My country have 56% (and 85% tax on "rich" people making more then 50K USD/year)
If you think that taxes are the only reason that it's cheaper to build a factory overseas, you're kidding yourself. Just a few factors:
1. Taxes - as you've indicated. However, the difference is not as great as you claim. While China as a 'paper' tax rate in the single digits, by the time you get done paying all the fees and so on, it's far higher.
But taxes are only a minor component. US labor rates are 1000% higher than China - not just a few percent. Other reasons:
2. Corporate liability costs
3. Employee overhead costs (insurance and other benefits
4. Environmental costs
5. Health and Safety costs
6. And the big one is simply employee expectations. A Chinese worker is happy to take home $100 per month after taxes. A US worker expects at least 10 times that AFTER TAX.
If you think that taxes are the only reason that it's cheaper to build a factory overseas, you're kidding yourself. Just a few factors:
1. Taxes - as you've indicated. However, the difference is not as great as you claim. While China as a 'paper' tax rate in the single digits, by the time you get done paying all the fees and so on, it's far higher.
But taxes are only a minor component. US labor rates are 1000% higher than China - not just a few percent. Other reasons:
2. Corporate liability costs
3. Employee overhead costs (insurance and other benefits
4. Environmental costs
5. Health and Safety costs
6. And the big one is simply employee expectations. A Chinese worker is happy to take home $100 per month after taxes. A US worker expects at least 10 times that AFTER TAX.
It ain't expectations, it's necessity.
Both the quality of life AND the cost of living (and thus what people and companies earn and pay in taxes) is much higher in the USA than in China. Even our democratic system costs more than an "efficient dictatorship" like China's government.
And our high quality of life is almost certainly a good thing that we have chosen as a society to support and pay for. We can argue about the details but in general we live well in the USA, and most of us are willing to pay for it so long as we can get a decent job.
And assembling iPhones at Foxcon for $2.15 per hour would NOT be a decent job in the USA.
I don't see why Apple has to do anything different from what they are doing. The company is running very smoothly and they're making about as much money as any company can. Just because Wall Street can manipulate Apple's share price that isn't Apple's fault. There are some very powerful funds that are controlling what's going on with Apple's share price and probably a number of other stocks as well. They can do anything they want. But what matters most with Apple as a company is to just keep selling products and make as much money as they can. Apple continues to make more revenue and profit and reserve cash. The hedge funds can't control that. Only the consumers can. If the stock market is crooked then only the regulating bodies can change that.
I doubt that Apple will be making any changes soon unless some fantastic acquisition opportunity comes along. Apparently, Apple doesn't want to compete directly against companies like Google or Amazon because they don't feel its necessary. Apple could acquire a search engine but I guess it doesn't fit in their plans. Apple will just have to keep on piling up revenue quarter after quarter and become a powerful company like no company ever was. Pleasing shareholders are probably the least of Apple's concerns. I'm rather disappointed with today's results, but Apple's share price may just spring back up in a couple of weeks and all will be OK.
I doubt that Apple will be making any changes soon unless some fantastic acquisition opportunity comes along.
They have just enough off shore money to buy Samsung. It would fit right in with owning parts supply, getting rid of copy cat devices and moving into the Apple full size Apple TV market.
Comments
It's part and parcel of capitalism. What would you have them do with it?
Ummm invest it? Give it to the owners? Lower margins for market share? Just to name a few.
Jobs let it be known to save for a rainy day and not be held to standard wall street idiology(see above). Which is ok too. But how much is too much? With this much cash, IMO, they are both powerful and vulnerable.
I anyone else sort of uncomfortable that corporations can horde money like this?
Not in the slightest. Lots of cash on hand gives Apple the ability to make large strategic purchases in the future. That ability helps Apple, shareholders and users of Apple products.
Ummm invest it? Give it to the owners? Lower margins for market share? Just to name a few.
Jobs let it be known to save for a rainy day and not be held to standard wall street idiology(see above). Which is ok too. But how much is too much? With this much cash, IMO, they are both powerful and vulnerable.
I would appreciate an explanation for how their cash makes them vulnerable.
I assume you aren't talking about a hostile takeover to get at the cash, as least not at current market cap. I expect nobody in the world can come up with the ~$400B (?) it would take to acquire Apple and get at their cash.
However, if the rainy day that Apple is saving for ever comes, and their market cap drops to half or $200B, and they have $100B in the bank, hmmmm.
Welcome to AppleInsider.
Apple got out of the manufacturing business a while ago (~2000?) and it has helped create tremendous profits for the company. The new CEO, Cook, was an important part of the move to, and success of, outsourcing manufacturing. It is very unlikely Apple will return to it anytime soon. However anything is possible for the most creative large company. Who would have expected a major PC maker to get into retail?????
Another issue is that the tools and facilities required to manufacture even Apple's huge quantities of components are hugely expensive (what is Samsung's 28 nm fab in Texas costing to build?) and will serve Apple's needs for only a few years. Thus it would be very difficult for Apple to recover the sunk costs in such a facility. For example, the fabs producing the 45 nm A4 chips (which has only been in production for ~20 months) may only have a year's worth of work left for Apple. Now, Samsung can use those older fabs to produce chips for low-cost Android phones and the like, but what would Apple possibly ever use them for? If Apple owned the fab they could lose a ton of money abandoning a very expensive facility that Apple can't use anymore.
Apple got out of manufacturing since they where a small company.
Now they are the third largest computer company and one of the biggest mobile device company in the world. Its a risk, but having own factories is always better for many reason.
The outsourcing craze in late 90 early 2000 have lead to so many companies loosing money. Its just short term thinking to boost the shares so that the CEO can get a bonus when they outsource. Out sourcing means that another company also needs to make profit.
The interesting thing is that Apple have taken small steps to design things in-house. The A class processor is an Apple design with ARM cores / PowerVR graphics. This have given Apple a huge edge over all other Android vendors. A5 is 30% larger/more expensive to manufacture then for example the Tegra2. These 30% Apple use for NEON SIMD/Visual engine/DSPs and dual channel memory.
Tegra2 does not have it. Since Nvidia needs to make a profit on Tegra they sell it for 25 dollar. Apple does not need to make a profit on A5, so they can manufacture it at 25 dollars.
The latest evidence that out sourcing is bad is AMD. AMD sold its factories for a shot time cash injections. Now Global foundries is killing AMD. GloFo can't produce enough Liano and have huge problems producing any Bulldozers. GloFo does not care about AMD. If AMD don't buy the wafers, someone else will. Therefore GloFo have no self interest in making AMD chips work.
We also have the backstabbing companies like Samsung. Apple helped Samsung build its factories. The famous 1 billion in Flash 2005. Apple buys Samsung parts for over 8 billion and are their largest customer. Was that enough for Samsung? No. They used many of the same parts and the same design to create its own competing products. That would never have happened if Apple had its own factories. Samsung also leaked iPhone/ipad parts to competitors.
FoxConn is an own chapter. Same factory that produce Apple stuff in the morning, produce Dell stuff in the evening. During the night they allegedly produce pirated Apple parts. (thats why pirated Apple stuff is 1:1 copies).
The only reason why all factories can't be in the US is because of the insane tax system. I don't want to go down in a political discussion. I think we can agree that an American worker is as good as a Chinese worker. The main reason why its cheaper to manufacture outside US is that those countries have 6-7% tax on average. US have 30. EU 45. My country have 56% (and 85% tax on "rich" people making more then 50K USD/year)
With high taxes, everything gets more expensive. To cover that expense, we need higher wages. Its a bad circle.
It is also strange that not one single American I have meet wants to cut down on US biggest expense: the military. US is to god hearted and wants to help to many people in the world. Think about your self!
So: Apple should build its own Foundry to make SSD/A class CPUs.
Assembly plants can also be in the US, but needs to have advance robot technology to keep down cost.
Nokia made 10 of billions on mobile phones that cost under 100 dollar. Why? They had their own factories. The new idiotic Nokia CEO have empty factories and buys Windows mobile phones from Korea = Rip Nokia.
I anyone else sort of uncomfortable that corporations can horde money like this?
No. Even if Apple have 81 billion: That would only cover 4 days of the US government spending. I hope that sets it in perspective.
Almost always private companies have a higher discipline when it comes to money. If you loose money you go bankrupt. So its in the companies interest to not have dept and take care of its payments.
Compare that to the government that spends trillions. 1000 times Apples cash hoard with money they lend. That is irresponsible. The reason for it is just like Reagan said in the 80is: You give budget for a department each year. If they don't use all money, their funding will be cut. Therefore each year every department waste money at the end of the year so that their funding won't be cut. If a department is so badly managed that they loose money, they often are rewarded with increased funding. That was the reason why Reagan gave back the surplus to the people. Its the peoples money. It should not be wasted.
Apple would lead US better then any of your parties can do.
The whole political system is now just like 2 teams that you cheer for.
Hint: No ism is right. No party is right. Always use evidence and facts. You should never have a fixed position. If someone can prove that you are wrong, admit it and change you position.
Companies making money is good. Everything you see around you is thanks to private companies. Every road. Every school. Everything. Government does not generate money.
Apple got out of manufacturing since they where a small company.
Now they are the third largest computer company and one of the biggest mobile device company in the world. Its a risk, but having own factories is always better for many reason.
The outsourcing craze in late 90 early 2000 have lead to so many companies loosing money. Its just short term thinking to boost the shares so that the CEO can get a bonus when they outsource. Out sourcing means that another company also needs to make profit.
What I have been trying to say (maybe not very clearly) is that Apple wants to use cutting-edge technologies and components in every single product. Apple would have no use for a fab that is only a few years old. By outsourcing to companies that can find other, profitable uses, for these older facilities and machines, Apple can have access to the newest technologies without the financial and management burden of owning the older plants.
Thus Apple can be very nimble, and through their huge volume orders get access to suppliers' latest and greatest stuff.
Somehow Apple is doing it right, unlike AMD. Perhaps your analysis is wrong, and it isn't so simple as you describe?
Why is everyone supporting this?
The money needs to be HERE.
The factories that build their products need to be HERE.
There needs to be NO TAX BREAKS for companies putting their own interest over the country's.
See a pattern here?
Yes, the pattern is that so many of the AI whiners don't have any concept that the economy is now global. Apple is not a U.S. company - they are a true global enterprise. They sell more than half of their products outside the U.S., so revenues and profits are generated there.
In fact, the very fact that their 'outside the U.S.' cash is growing so fast indicates that sales outside the U.S. are growing rapidly. The only way Apple would stop generating 'foreign' cash is if they stopped selling outside the U.S. - which would be insanely stupid.
Ummm invest it? Give it to the owners? Lower margins for market share? Just to name a few.
Jobs let it be known to save for a rainy day and not be held to standard wall street idiology(see above). Which is ok too. But how much is too much? With this much cash, IMO, they are both powerful and vulnerable.
Apple has done very well with my investment in their stock for the past 15 years. I trust them to handle my money and invest it where they think it can best be used. The minute I no longer believe that, I'll sell the stock.
It's not up to you to decide what Apple should do with the money - that's the Board's job. Your only role is to decide whether to buy their stock or not.
I anyone else sort of uncomfortable that corporations can horde money like this?
Only as long as these corporations are considered individuals and given unreasonable tax breaks.
Apple should use its overseas cash and open a bank...
https://www.applebank.com/
Why is everyone supporting this?
The money needs to be HERE.
The factories that build their products need to be HERE.
There needs to be NO TAX BREAKS for companies putting their own interest over the country's.
See a pattern here?
Samsung's 28 nm fab in Texas, which certainly is costing billions to build, will reportedly manufacture the A6. Apple doesn't have to own the factory for the components to be Made in the USA.
Note that the highest value part in the iPhone/iPad will be made in the USA by people making good wages, and will be shipped to China for assembly at Foxcon by workers making $2/hr. I don't think we want those jobs.
Precisely (minus the laughing). It's a misconception that many have in the developed world that desirable jobs are being lost to the developing world and ruining the manufacturing industries. High value manufacturing still takes place in the US and Europe. The CPUs are made here, the designs are drawn up here etc. Only the low value work of machining a case etc is outsourced abroad. Workers in the US would never work for the wages that workers in China, India and Mexico will. It's not as immoral as it seems. In these countries, what the likes of Apple and Nike etc pay for manufacturing low-value commodities is a more valuable wage.
People will queue up for jobs in these factories. Economically, these places are like Dickensian England where people expect unskilled work and don't expect the modern lifestyle that many of us do. It's not pretty, but it's the way economies work. There's nothing any of us can do about it. Apple can't change the global economic position of half the world population. If Apple don't send work to China, the workers in China won't have those jobs and they'll either earn nothing or work in another factory on the same money. They won't suddenly start earning $7 an hour at some other job because they weren't forced into a job at a factory. Jobs that pay that well simply don't exist in these counties for the majority its of the labour force, the economies aren't developed enough yet. Their economies depend on these manufacturing jobs.
It's how economies evolve. As they grow, the low value work is done by the less developed economies. Nobody weaves cotton in the NW of England any more. Instead, the English keep high-value service jobs and let less rich economies do the work they no longer want to do. If Apple opened an iPhone assembly plant in Bolton on Chinese wages, nobody would apply for a job there. If they paid minimum wage, the iPhones would cost twice as much, nobody would buy them and Apple would shut the factory down. It's nobody's fault, it's just economics.
Simply put, Apple can't bring these jobs back to the US, and you wouldn't want them to.
Ummm invest it? Give it to the owners? Lower margins for market share? Just to name a few.
Jobs let it be known to save for a rainy day and not be held to standard wall street idiology(see above). Which is ok too. But how much is too much? With this much cash, IMO, they are both powerful and vulnerable.
How does having $80b make them vulnerable? I agree, it is silly not to invest it, but people make the assumption that Apple can invest it. Investing it for the sake of investing it is madness. The things they'd like to invest it in might not be allowed. Apple are the second largest company in the world now, the government won't just let them buy any company they choose. Giving the money to investors would be very nice though lol
Yes, the pattern is that so many of the AI whiners don't have any concept that the economy is now global. Apple is not a U.S. company - they are a true global enterprise. They sell more than half of their products outside the U.S., so revenues and profits are generated there.
In fact, the very fact that their 'outside the U.S.' cash is growing so fast indicates that sales outside the U.S. are growing rapidly. The only way Apple would stop generating 'foreign' cash is if they stopped selling outside the U.S. - which would be insanely stupid.
Apple has done very well with my investment in their stock for the past 15 years. I trust them to handle my money and invest it where they think it can best be used. The minute I no longer believe that, I'll sell the stock.
It's not up to you to decide what Apple should do with the money - that's the Board's job. Your only role is to decide whether to buy their stock or not.
However, it is your prerogative as a citizen to do this:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44944394
I have a great idea!
Apple should take some millions out of the many billions that they have and open up an awesome, world class Apple Museum, in some place important like NYC to start.
I like the idea but sorry. Any memorial or museum belongs where it all started. NFL and MLB halls of fame are in pretty obscure places but in their birthplaces.
It's not like the SF Bay Area is a poor place to travel either. There is plenty to see and do here (oops did I give away that I'm a local? sorry)
However, it is your prerogative as a citizen to do this:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44944394
Nice thought but Apple isn't a person. It's a company with a duty to its shareholders. Any philanthropic deeds must be approved by the board and shareholders, I'm sure, or else you'd see shareholder lawsuits aplenty.
I like the idea but sorry. Any memorial or museum belongs where it all started. NFL and MLB halls of fame are in pretty obscure places but in their birthplaces.
It's not like the SF Bay Area is a poor place to travel either. There is plenty to see and do here (oops did I give away that I'm a local? sorry)
Haha, well I wanted it on the East Coast for my own selfish reasons, that's where I am.
Apple is so huge, that they can have more than one. A few in the US to start, one in Europe, one in Asia etc.
The only reason why all factories can't be in the US is because of the insane tax system. I don't want to go down in a political discussion. I think we can agree that an American worker is as good as a Chinese worker. The main reason why its cheaper to manufacture outside US is that those countries have 6-7% tax on average. US have 30. EU 45. My country have 56% (and 85% tax on "rich" people making more then 50K USD/year)
If you think that taxes are the only reason that it's cheaper to build a factory overseas, you're kidding yourself. Just a few factors:
1. Taxes - as you've indicated. However, the difference is not as great as you claim. While China as a 'paper' tax rate in the single digits, by the time you get done paying all the fees and so on, it's far higher.
But taxes are only a minor component. US labor rates are 1000% higher than China - not just a few percent. Other reasons:
2. Corporate liability costs
3. Employee overhead costs (insurance and other benefits
4. Environmental costs
5. Health and Safety costs
6. And the big one is simply employee expectations. A Chinese worker is happy to take home $100 per month after taxes. A US worker expects at least 10 times that AFTER TAX.
If you think that taxes are the only reason that it's cheaper to build a factory overseas, you're kidding yourself. Just a few factors:
1. Taxes - as you've indicated. However, the difference is not as great as you claim. While China as a 'paper' tax rate in the single digits, by the time you get done paying all the fees and so on, it's far higher.
But taxes are only a minor component. US labor rates are 1000% higher than China - not just a few percent. Other reasons:
2. Corporate liability costs
3. Employee overhead costs (insurance and other benefits
4. Environmental costs
5. Health and Safety costs
6. And the big one is simply employee expectations. A Chinese worker is happy to take home $100 per month after taxes. A US worker expects at least 10 times that AFTER TAX.
It ain't expectations, it's necessity.
Both the quality of life AND the cost of living (and thus what people and companies earn and pay in taxes) is much higher in the USA than in China. Even our democratic system costs more than an "efficient dictatorship" like China's government.
And our high quality of life is almost certainly a good thing that we have chosen as a society to support and pay for. We can argue about the details but in general we live well in the USA, and most of us are willing to pay for it so long as we can get a decent job.
And assembling iPhones at Foxcon for $2.15 per hour would NOT be a decent job in the USA.
It's part and parcel of capitalism. What would you have them do with it?
invest it in the American economy.
I doubt that Apple will be making any changes soon unless some fantastic acquisition opportunity comes along. Apparently, Apple doesn't want to compete directly against companies like Google or Amazon because they don't feel its necessary. Apple could acquire a search engine but I guess it doesn't fit in their plans. Apple will just have to keep on piling up revenue quarter after quarter and become a powerful company like no company ever was. Pleasing shareholders are probably the least of Apple's concerns. I'm rather disappointed with today's results, but Apple's share price may just spring back up in a couple of weeks and all will be OK.
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I doubt that Apple will be making any changes soon unless some fantastic acquisition opportunity comes along.
They have just enough off shore money to buy Samsung. It would fit right in with owning parts supply, getting rid of copy cat devices and moving into the Apple full size Apple TV market.
Why is everyone supporting this?
The money needs to be HERE.
The factories that build their products need to be HERE.
There needs to be NO TAX BREAKS for companies putting their own interest over the country's.
See a pattern here?
Reasonable requests. First start off with dismantling Wall Street that is robbing billions from the US every year.