Seems to me that a company that only exists because of one guy's idea to make a bitmap personal computer would listen to that guy when he says that company's being an idiot.
Like back when they wouldn't port CS to Mac OS 8, 9, and Rhapsody. Or even OS X at the beginning.
Plus all the stuff Adobe took from MacDraw super early on. Marching ants and all that jazz.
Apple didn?t win. Everybody won. Flash hasn?t been superseded in mobile by any sort of Apple technology. It?s been superseded by truly open web technologies. Dumping Flash will make Android better, it will make BlackBerrys better, it will make the entire web better. iOS users have been benefitting from this ever since day one, in June 2007.
Apple never have champion its own "technology". Apple is about open, industry standards like OpenGL, H264 and HTML5.
The infrastructure around it devices can be closed (like iPhone/iTunes), but the phones support open standards like HTML5. Anyone can create a program in HTML5 and run it on iOS devices.
So what is more opened? An "open" standard like Windows that uses DirectX or a closed standard that uses industry standards that works on every computer? (OpenGL)
Steve Jobs made a fantastic decision. It's the same reason Java apps aren't ever going to be installed on a mobile platform either. You don't want another runtime on top of your OS. It just adds complexity and, of course, it's going to have some overhead for support. I think the fight was in large part about keeping (bringing!) developers in the iOS fold.
While I agree that SJ was 100% right on the Flash issue, it is NOT that case that Java apps don't/won't run on mobile devices. Java is the development AND runtime environment for applications on both Blackberry and Android. RIM pays Oracle a license on every handset running the Java RTE while Google chose to develop their own Java-derived version called Davlik. Hence the Oracle lawsuit against Google
Apple chose not to go the Java route as they prefer to control the entire user experience. While this may provide positive benefits for users of IOS devices, it makes things slightly more complicated for developers.
Too bad he didn't get to see this day. It would have been interesting to hear what he would have had to say.
I am sure he already knew, like did most of us. To have a Flash enabled phone or tablet device is a pretty hollow trump card from what I hear.
More importantly, this announcement will signal the point ever louder that including Flash content, or developing your site fully, or largely, using Flash is a very bad idea if you want your site viewable to the millions of handheld device surfers.
Apple never have champion its own "technology". Apple is about open, industry standards like OpenGL, H264 and HTML5.
The infrastructure around it devices can be closed (like iPhone/iTunes), but the phones support open standards like HTML5. Anyone can create a program in HTML5 and run it on iOS devices.
Although there are examples to the contrary like the new messaging app and particularly Facetime which was promised to be open to other devs and apps but hasn't happened yet.
PS: I guess that's one less negative mark under Cons for the iPhone and iPad when it comes time to rate them.
Flash was never a good idea for a touch device. Flash was a victim of its own success. It was so easy to develop with that 99% of the people using it have no programming or graphic design experience or training. Hence most everything built in Flash sucked. The 1% of good Flash is still excellent work. Aside from the current need to support a dwindling number of IE browsers for video delivery, Flash just doesn't fit in with the web site trends of today. It is like the tail fins on Cadillacs, they were cool and all back in the day but served no purpose, however a derivative of the fin can be observed today in NASCAR rear deck fins. So Flash may serve some limited usefulness in the future but hopefully not as a decoration.
Apple didn’t win. Everybody won. Flash hasn’t been superseded in mobile by any sort of Apple technology. It’s been superseded by truly open web technologies. Dumping Flash will make Android better, it will make BlackBerrys better, it will make the entire web better. iOS users have been benefitting from this ever since day one, in June 2007.
Sorry but the Apple Technology is WebKit and the joint HTML 5 spec from Google and Apple.
Guber continues to be technically handicapped and exists in popularity all due his timing in starting out when the industry was in flux and his voice was crowned an Apple mouthpiece.
Apple didn’t win. Everybody won. Flash hasn’t been superseded in mobile by any sort of Apple technology. It’s been superseded by truly open web technologies. Dumping Flash will make Android better, it will make BlackBerrys better, it will make the entire web better. iOS users have been benefitting from this ever since day one, in June 2007.
I agree with this POV. The Apple vs Adobe drama was drummed up by the media (as well as Adobe, who went on a full PR assault to defend their "platform"). Steve Jobs didn't "attack" Flash: he simply made a choice for the iOS platform, but Apple and Adobe continued to work together on Flash for Mac OS. It wasn't until Adobe went on a PR offensive that Steve penned his "Thoughts on Flash" open letter, which laid out his vision for the future of the mobile web. And it was an HTML 5 based future.
It's clear to me that Android support for Flash was more about Google trying to play up the "Apple is against choice" PR angle than by some vision of how the mobile web should work. It was all about taking a position contrary to whatever Apple supported, even if what Apple supported was an open standard like HTML 5.
Sorry but the Apple Technology is WebKit and the joint HTML 5 spec from Google and Apple.
Guber continues to be technically handicapped and exists in popularity all due his timing in starting out when the industry was in flux and his voice was crowned an Apple mouthpiece.
You lost me. What exactly do you disagree with in Gruber's blog? I think it's spot on. I also don't get your mention of "Apple Technology" and mentioning of Google. Sure, Webkit was a fork started at Apple in 2001 but it's open source and has many prominent companies contributing which means it's really not Apple's technology but everybody's technology, which is what Gruber is saying. We all benefit from WebKit.
Well, that's certainly one POV. I don't characterize this as "Steve was right." I think Steve was more prescient about the future of mobile web standards. It didn't hurt that he took a hard line on "no plug-ins for mobile Safari" to help force the issue. That includes Microsoft's seldom loved Silverlight plug-in.
Comments
Steve: 1, Adobe: 0
Seems to me that a company that only exists because of one guy's idea to make a bitmap personal computer would listen to that guy when he says that company's being an idiot.
Like back when they wouldn't port CS to Mac OS 8, 9, and Rhapsody. Or even OS X at the beginning.
Plus all the stuff Adobe took from MacDraw super early on. Marching ants and all that jazz.
Great!!!!!
This is terrible news for savvy consumers who want the full web experience on their mobile devices.
This is great news for savvy consumers who want the full web experience on their mobile devices who also care about battery life.
Gruber:
Apple didn?t win. Everybody won. Flash hasn?t been superseded in mobile by any sort of Apple technology. It?s been superseded by truly open web technologies. Dumping Flash will make Android better, it will make BlackBerrys better, it will make the entire web better. iOS users have been benefitting from this ever since day one, in June 2007.
http://daringfireball.net/linked/201...everybody-wins
Apple never have champion its own "technology". Apple is about open, industry standards like OpenGL, H264 and HTML5.
The infrastructure around it devices can be closed (like iPhone/iTunes), but the phones support open standards like HTML5. Anyone can create a program in HTML5 and run it on iOS devices.
So what is more opened? An "open" standard like Windows that uses DirectX or a closed standard that uses industry standards that works on every computer? (OpenGL)
Steve Jobs made a fantastic decision. It's the same reason Java apps aren't ever going to be installed on a mobile platform either. You don't want another runtime on top of your OS. It just adds complexity and, of course, it's going to have some overhead for support. I think the fight was in large part about keeping (bringing!) developers in the iOS fold.
While I agree that SJ was 100% right on the Flash issue, it is NOT that case that Java apps don't/won't run on mobile devices. Java is the development AND runtime environment for applications on both Blackberry and Android. RIM pays Oracle a license on every handset running the Java RTE while Google chose to develop their own Java-derived version called Davlik. Hence the Oracle lawsuit against Google
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_OS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_virtual_machine
Apple chose not to go the Java route as they prefer to control the entire user experience. While this may provide positive benefits for users of IOS devices, it makes things slightly more complicated for developers.
Too bad he didn't get to see this day. It would have been interesting to hear what he would have had to say.
I am sure he already knew, like did most of us. To have a Flash enabled phone or tablet device is a pretty hollow trump card from what I hear.
More importantly, this announcement will signal the point ever louder that including Flash content, or developing your site fully, or largely, using Flash is a very bad idea if you want your site viewable to the millions of handheld device surfers.
How long before Flash on the web is history?
Apple never have champion its own "technology". Apple is about open, industry standards like OpenGL, H264 and HTML5.
The infrastructure around it devices can be closed (like iPhone/iTunes), but the phones support open standards like HTML5. Anyone can create a program in HTML5 and run it on iOS devices.
Although there are examples to the contrary like the new messaging app and particularly Facetime which was promised to be open to other devs and apps but hasn't happened yet.
how will we ever experience the full web on our devices now?
Will the UK now let Apple advertise the full web on their iOS-based devices?
PS: I guess that's one less negative mark under Cons for the iPhone and iPad when it comes time to rate them.
Flash was never a good idea for a touch device. Flash was a victim of its own success. It was so easy to develop with that 99% of the people using it have no programming or graphic design experience or training. Hence most everything built in Flash sucked. The 1% of good Flash is still excellent work. Aside from the current need to support a dwindling number of IE browsers for video delivery, Flash just doesn't fit in with the web site trends of today. It is like the tail fins on Cadillacs, they were cool and all back in the day but served no purpose, however a derivative of the fin can be observed today in NASCAR rear deck fins. So Flash may serve some limited usefulness in the future but hopefully not as a decoration.
Gruber:
Apple didn’t win. Everybody won. Flash hasn’t been superseded in mobile by any sort of Apple technology. It’s been superseded by truly open web technologies. Dumping Flash will make Android better, it will make BlackBerrys better, it will make the entire web better. iOS users have been benefitting from this ever since day one, in June 2007.
http://daringfireball.net/linked/201...everybody-wins
Sorry but the Apple Technology is WebKit and the joint HTML 5 spec from Google and Apple.
Guber continues to be technically handicapped and exists in popularity all due his timing in starting out when the industry was in flux and his voice was crowned an Apple mouthpiece.
This is terrible news for savvy consumers who want the full web experience on their mobile devices.
Savvy users would much rather not be required to use bloated, buggy, insecure, proprietary, plug-ins to view the "full" web.
Gruber:
Apple didn’t win. Everybody won. Flash hasn’t been superseded in mobile by any sort of Apple technology. It’s been superseded by truly open web technologies. Dumping Flash will make Android better, it will make BlackBerrys better, it will make the entire web better. iOS users have been benefitting from this ever since day one, in June 2007.
http://daringfireball.net/linked/201...everybody-wins
I agree with this POV. The Apple vs Adobe drama was drummed up by the media (as well as Adobe, who went on a full PR assault to defend their "platform"). Steve Jobs didn't "attack" Flash: he simply made a choice for the iOS platform, but Apple and Adobe continued to work together on Flash for Mac OS. It wasn't until Adobe went on a PR offensive that Steve penned his "Thoughts on Flash" open letter, which laid out his vision for the future of the mobile web. And it was an HTML 5 based future.
It's clear to me that Android support for Flash was more about Google trying to play up the "Apple is against choice" PR angle than by some vision of how the mobile web should work. It was all about taking a position contrary to whatever Apple supported, even if what Apple supported was an open standard like HTML 5.
Sorry but the Apple Technology is WebKit and the joint HTML 5 spec from Google and Apple.
Guber continues to be technically handicapped and exists in popularity all due his timing in starting out when the industry was in flux and his voice was crowned an Apple mouthpiece.
You lost me. What exactly do you disagree with in Gruber's blog? I think it's spot on. I also don't get your mention of "Apple Technology" and mentioning of Google. Sure, Webkit was a fork started at Apple in 2001 but it's open source and has many prominent companies contributing which means it's really not Apple's technology but everybody's technology, which is what Gruber is saying. We all benefit from WebKit.
Jobs has been proven right again.
Nice and profitable to show humility Adobe.
Well, that's certainly one POV. I don't characterize this as "Steve was right." I think Steve was more prescient about the future of mobile web standards. It didn't hurt that he took a hard line on "no plug-ins for mobile Safari" to help force the issue. That includes Microsoft's seldom loved Silverlight plug-in.