I see the logic behind dumping the connector, and the EU's logic behind the USB charging standard, however...
I don't see apple dumping the connector yet. So many devices use it, that it would probably cause a riot from those who have it in their expensive cars.
IMO, the most likely thing that will happen is that Apple will release a new iPhone/iPad/iPod that uses a new connector (see the magsafe patent) in addition to the old connector, and then drop the old connector after three years when the warranty is up for everything that has just the old connector. Or the new device will start with just the new connector and have a cradle to connect to the old one that can just be left permanently attached to the interface it was being used with.
If they're going to do it they'll just pull of the band aid. Will be sore at first but you'll get over it. As for customers with third party speakers etc. Someone will produce a new to old connector, and so people will use this as an excuse to upgrade to an AirPlay speaker. It's just a damn shame they are so expensive currently.
I really hope they go with a magsafe connection. I find the micro / macro usb plugs too small, it's so much harder to fit in, it's hard to tell which side is which on the little port. For something you have to charge every day, it's not great. Would be really cool if they made a mini magsafe though, as small as micro usb, but snaps right in.
That's the dream. Should have happened 3 years ago. Besides, if it's MagSafe it doesn't even need to be that small.
What? Worst english ever, even for this site which seems to be hiring more and more writers that simply can't write proper english, or be bothered to re-read their posts.
Anyway, future should totally be wireless everything. We already have wireless data transfer and wireless charging.
I don't care if it's smaller or not, just please add Thunderbolt to it.
You might get your wish. Thunderbolt is a strategic technology for Apple. If Apple switch from USB to Thunderbolt for wired syncing, it will provide further motivation for iOS device owners to replace their PeeCees with Macs. Those without Thunderbolt-equipped computers would still be able to use slow wireless syncing.
The writing on AI has been getting really bad. I read the second paragraph a few times to make sure I wasn't missing something.
Quote:
"Apple blog iMore has "heard" from unnamed sources that the iPhone maker is in 2010, and the technology found its way to the iPhone 4 to make space for a larger battery. The frugality went further as the internal antenna was displaced to the handset's edge, a design that caused the so-called "antenna-gate" fiasco. "
If you don't think this is news, your crazy. Apparently, Apple has temporally moved its production facilities back two years. This has tremendous advantages, like knowing exactly when supplies will be short or what team will win the Super Bowl. I do wonder why they don't start producing from an earlier date, and avoid "the fiasco" completely.
In what way is USB limited compared to a 30-pin connector? Judging by the fact that Apple sells a 30-pin to microUSB adpater, USB isn't limited in any meaningful way.
Maybe you should actually check to see what comes out of the 30 pin dock connector, like:
Video - VGA/component/HDMI
Audio - Line in/out
Did you really thing it was just for power and data?
The USB 2 micro USB connector is limited compared to the 30 pin connector, but what about USB 3? I think there was also a rumor of magsafe-like connectors a while back, these two go hand in hand. But I'd still prefer something I don't need to keep unique cables and accessories for.
re:thunderbolt, meh, none of these devices has fast enough NAND to saturate USB 2 and won't for a while, let alone USB 3 if they finally switch to that after Ivy Bridge macs are out. I guess it could charge them as fast as a 10W power plug, but you would not see crazy transfer speeds just by changing the connection.
People are going to through a fit about how Apple changed it to get us to upgrade all our stuff but the truth is they've used the same connector since April 2003 with the 3rd iPod release. That's 9 years for the same 30-pin Dock Connector. If a new, smaller connector will usher in another decade of portable devices then I'm all for it.
They may have used the same physical connector, but they've added and deprecated features over the years as they see fit. For example, anyone that had an adapter or accessory that charged through the Firewire pin, and of course, dropped the FW data connection too. It seems like they've done that for other things too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Unless Apple moves to optical (which I think is not highly unlikely) or moves away from USB (equally unlikely) the most you'd have to do with an older car with an iPod Dock Connector is get the adapter.
Just to be clear, the EU isn't requiring Apple to remove the iPod Dock Connector or add a micro-USB connector directly to the device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapinguari
Let's see:
2001: FireWire: 400 Mbps
2005: USB 2.0: ~25 Mbps
2012: 802.11n: ~20 Mbps (if physical syncing is dropped...)
Just saying...
802.1g has 20MBps practical payload rate. n should be considerably faster. I don't think iPods ever achieved anything close to the Firewire practical max payload rate.
I don't think iPods ever achieved anything close to the Firewire practical max payload rate.
Yeah, I don't know where people keep getting this idea that faster connection = faster transfer, the NAND in these devices only reads and writes at 15MB/s as an upper limit, its not the same high performance stuff in SSDs. That doesn't even saturate USB 2.0, which limits external hard drives to 40MB/s.
In what way is USB limited compared to a 30-pin connector? Judging by the fact that Apple sells a 30-pin to microUSB adpater, USB isn't limited in any meaningful way.
The 30-pin to microUSB DOES limit the connector. Just because it is an 'adapter' does not mean it provides the same functionality- it does not. Apple sells that adapter to appease the EU who mandates that all cell phones be able to charge over microUSB- CHARGE is the key word there.
People on this website called me crazy when I said Apple should ditch the dock connector. Based on this new information, who's laughing now? I was right.
The EU is requiring micro USB as a standard, yeah. There's been talk of Apple just supplying an adapter to go between that and the 30-pin connector. But honestly, micro USB is smaller than 30-pin, and not just by a little bit - by a lot. It would be really nice to be able to carry just one cable and use it interchangeably between my phone, my external hard drive, and my DSLR.
what about in the car?
when i had android for 6 months last year i couldn't play it via my car's USB port. iphone works via USB and no need to buy the bluetooth option for the car
2012: 802.11n: ~20 Mbps (if physical syncing is dropped...)
Just saying...
You mixed up the ratings. FW is 400/800Mbps, USB 2 is 480Mbps, 802.11n is 150-300Mbps.
We don't use Mbps for filesystem data but MBps or MB/s, which is 1/8th of the Mbps ratings as there are 8 bits in one byte.
FW400/800 is therefore 50/100MB/s, USB 2 is 60MB/s, 802.11n is 18-38MB/s.
In real-world scenarios, FW400 gets 30-40MB/s, FW800 gets 60-70MB/s, USB 2 gets 20-30MB/s (it is faster on Windows) and 802.11n gets about 10-15MB/s.
I think 802.11n is fine for wireless transfers. It's mainly just syncing so the transfers are small. I like the idea of having magsafe but it will still be connected to USB for Windows compatibility.
USB 3 will help out - 4.8Gbps or 600MB/s maximum but the sync will only ever reach the maximum rates of your drives so the write speed of the NAND inside the iOS device and the read speed of the drive inside the Mac. I expect the NAND write will be the slowest but if they double the NAND and use RAID 0 in future iOS devices, it can go up a lot. There is a test here of the storage speed:
It doesn't look like a very sustained test but 50MB/s seems reasonable. In RAID 0, they could hit 100MB/s and max it with USB 3.
That could use a micro-USB connector or it could use magsafe. The 30-pin connector was quite good in that it could support a phone device's weight but it is bulky and it needs to go. I would like to see microUSB with USB host support so that you can buy an inexpensive adaptor for plugging in a camera or USB pen:
Imagine two people with iPads exchanging files, just take the pen, plug it in, copy and you're done. They don't need to show the filesystem directly, it can just load up discovered files inside the individual app view.
This article isn't saying Apple will ditch the dock connector but update it with a newer dock connector. So besides that no being right it's also just a rumor not proof of anything.
An unsubstantiated rumor claims that Apple is looking to replace the venerable 30-pin iPhone, iPad and iPod dock connector with a smaller, space-saving successor that will possibly make a debut in the company's next generation iPhone.
In related news, Apple sends out armies of salesmen signing up new lucrative licenses for use of the new dock connector.
You weren't even right about what the article was about.
And people can be accidentally right about an outcome but be completely crazy as to why they expect something to change. So why do you think that no physical connector will occur on upcoming iDevices.
An unsubstantiated rumor claims that Apple is looking to replace the venerable 30-pin iPhone, iPad and iPod dock connector with a smaller, space-saving successor that will possibly make a debut in the company's next generation iPhone.
Apple blog iMore has "heard" from unnamed sources that the iPhone maker is in 2010, and the technology found its way to the iPhone 4 to make space for a larger battery. The frugality went further as the internal antenna was displaced to the handset's edge, a design that caused the so-called "antenna-gate" fiasco.
Another factor is the connector's role in data transfer. With the advent of iCloud, AirPlay and the energy-sipping Bluetooth 4.0, a future iPhone may only need a cable for charging purposes.
It is unclear what would become of the huge ecosystem of existing "Made for iDevice" products, which is a lucrative business for both Apple and third-party companies, as it would be made obsolete by a redesigned connector.
Illustration of space taken by current dock connector in an iPhone. | Source: iMore
No further information was given, and it is important to reiterate that the aforementioned specifics were based on guesswork.
Comments
I see the logic behind dumping the connector, and the EU's logic behind the USB charging standard, however...
I don't see apple dumping the connector yet. So many devices use it, that it would probably cause a riot from those who have it in their expensive cars.
IMO, the most likely thing that will happen is that Apple will release a new iPhone/iPad/iPod that uses a new connector (see the magsafe patent) in addition to the old connector, and then drop the old connector after three years when the warranty is up for everything that has just the old connector. Or the new device will start with just the new connector and have a cradle to connect to the old one that can just be left permanently attached to the interface it was being used with.
If they're going to do it they'll just pull of the band aid. Will be sore at first but you'll get over it. As for customers with third party speakers etc. Someone will produce a new to old connector, and so people will use this as an excuse to upgrade to an AirPlay speaker. It's just a damn shame they are so expensive currently.
I really hope they go with a magsafe connection. I find the micro / macro usb plugs too small, it's so much harder to fit in, it's hard to tell which side is which on the little port. For something you have to charge every day, it's not great. Would be really cool if they made a mini magsafe though, as small as micro usb, but snaps right in.
That's the dream. Should have happened 3 years ago. Besides, if it's MagSafe it doesn't even need to be that small.
What? Worst english ever, even for this site which seems to be hiring more and more writers that simply can't write proper english, or be bothered to re-read their posts.
Anyway, future should totally be wireless everything. We already have wireless data transfer and wireless charging.
And flying cars.
I don't care if it's smaller or not, just please add Thunderbolt to it.
You might get your wish. Thunderbolt is a strategic technology for Apple. If Apple switch from USB to Thunderbolt for wired syncing, it will provide further motivation for iOS device owners to replace their PeeCees with Macs. Those without Thunderbolt-equipped computers would still be able to use slow wireless syncing.
"Apple blog iMore has "heard" from unnamed sources that the iPhone maker is in 2010, and the technology found its way to the iPhone 4 to make space for a larger battery. The frugality went further as the internal antenna was displaced to the handset's edge, a design that caused the so-called "antenna-gate" fiasco. "
If you don't think this is news, your crazy. Apparently, Apple has temporally moved its production facilities back two years. This has tremendous advantages, like knowing exactly when supplies will be short or what team will win the Super Bowl. I do wonder why they don't start producing from an earlier date, and avoid "the fiasco" completely.
In what way is USB limited compared to a 30-pin connector? Judging by the fact that Apple sells a 30-pin to microUSB adpater, USB isn't limited in any meaningful way.
Maybe you should actually check to see what comes out of the 30 pin dock connector, like:
Video - VGA/component/HDMI
Audio - Line in/out
Did you really thing it was just for power and data?
re:thunderbolt, meh, none of these devices has fast enough NAND to saturate USB 2 and won't for a while, let alone USB 3 if they finally switch to that after Ivy Bridge macs are out. I guess it could charge them as fast as a 10W power plug, but you would not see crazy transfer speeds just by changing the connection.
People are going to through a fit about how Apple changed it to get us to upgrade all our stuff but the truth is they've used the same connector since April 2003 with the 3rd iPod release. That's 9 years for the same 30-pin Dock Connector. If a new, smaller connector will usher in another decade of portable devices then I'm all for it.
They may have used the same physical connector, but they've added and deprecated features over the years as they see fit. For example, anyone that had an adapter or accessory that charged through the Firewire pin, and of course, dropped the FW data connection too. It seems like they've done that for other things too.
Unless Apple moves to optical (which I think is not highly unlikely) or moves away from USB (equally unlikely) the most you'd have to do with an older car with an iPod Dock Connector is get the adapter.
Just to be clear, the EU isn't requiring Apple to remove the iPod Dock Connector or add a micro-USB connector directly to the device.
Let's see:
2001: FireWire: 400 Mbps
2005: USB 2.0: ~25 Mbps
2012: 802.11n: ~20 Mbps (if physical syncing is dropped...)
Just saying...
802.1g has 20MBps practical payload rate. n should be considerably faster. I don't think iPods ever achieved anything close to the Firewire practical max payload rate.
I don't think iPods ever achieved anything close to the Firewire practical max payload rate.
Yeah, I don't know where people keep getting this idea that faster connection = faster transfer, the NAND in these devices only reads and writes at 15MB/s as an upper limit, its not the same high performance stuff in SSDs. That doesn't even saturate USB 2.0, which limits external hard drives to 40MB/s.
In what way is USB limited compared to a 30-pin connector? Judging by the fact that Apple sells a 30-pin to microUSB adpater, USB isn't limited in any meaningful way.
The 30-pin to microUSB DOES limit the connector. Just because it is an 'adapter' does not mean it provides the same functionality- it does not. Apple sells that adapter to appease the EU who mandates that all cell phones be able to charge over microUSB- CHARGE is the key word there.
People on this website called me crazy when I said Apple should ditch the dock connector. Based on this new information, who's laughing now? I was right.
You're still crazy and I'm laughing now.
Now what?
What about all those expensive Bose iPod and iPhone docks? And the cheap iHome docks?
apple retail makes their money like everyone else, on the accessories
there will probably be some adapter and i bet bose and ihome will have new accessories ready to buy if it comes out
The EU is requiring micro USB as a standard, yeah. There's been talk of Apple just supplying an adapter to go between that and the 30-pin connector. But honestly, micro USB is smaller than 30-pin, and not just by a little bit - by a lot. It would be really nice to be able to carry just one cable and use it interchangeably between my phone, my external hard drive, and my DSLR.
what about in the car?
when i had android for 6 months last year i couldn't play it via my car's USB port. iphone works via USB and no need to buy the bluetooth option for the car
Let's see:
2001: FireWire: 400 Mbps
2005: USB 2.0: ~25 Mbps
2012: 802.11n: ~20 Mbps (if physical syncing is dropped...)
Just saying...
You mixed up the ratings. FW is 400/800Mbps, USB 2 is 480Mbps, 802.11n is 150-300Mbps.
We don't use Mbps for filesystem data but MBps or MB/s, which is 1/8th of the Mbps ratings as there are 8 bits in one byte.
FW400/800 is therefore 50/100MB/s, USB 2 is 60MB/s, 802.11n is 18-38MB/s.
In real-world scenarios, FW400 gets 30-40MB/s, FW800 gets 60-70MB/s, USB 2 gets 20-30MB/s (it is faster on Windows) and 802.11n gets about 10-15MB/s.
I think 802.11n is fine for wireless transfers. It's mainly just syncing so the transfers are small. I like the idea of having magsafe but it will still be connected to USB for Windows compatibility.
USB 3 will help out - 4.8Gbps or 600MB/s maximum but the sync will only ever reach the maximum rates of your drives so the write speed of the NAND inside the iOS device and the read speed of the drive inside the Mac. I expect the NAND write will be the slowest but if they double the NAND and use RAID 0 in future iOS devices, it can go up a lot. There is a test here of the storage speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2EP1MRmEMs
It doesn't look like a very sustained test but 50MB/s seems reasonable. In RAID 0, they could hit 100MB/s and max it with USB 3.
That could use a micro-USB connector or it could use magsafe. The 30-pin connector was quite good in that it could support a phone device's weight but it is bulky and it needs to go. I would like to see microUSB with USB host support so that you can buy an inexpensive adaptor for plugging in a camera or USB pen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAd8RHGSqks
Imagine two people with iPads exchanging files, just take the pen, plug it in, copy and you're done. They don't need to show the filesystem directly, it can just load up discovered files inside the individual app view.
You're still crazy and I'm laughing now.
Now what?
Nah, I'm just crazy for being right. Happens all the time.
This article isn't saying Apple will ditch the dock connector but update it with a newer dock connector. So besides that no being right it's also just a rumor not proof of anything.
No, I'm just right, you'll see.
An unsubstantiated rumor claims that Apple is looking to replace the venerable 30-pin iPhone, iPad and iPod dock connector with a smaller, space-saving successor that will possibly make a debut in the company's next generation iPhone.
In related news, Apple sends out armies of salesmen signing up new lucrative licenses for use of the new dock connector.
No, I'm just right, you'll see.
You don't have a falsifiable claim, you'll eventually be right for the same reason that a broken clock is right twice a day.
No, I'm just right, you'll see.
You weren't even right about what the article was about.
And people can be accidentally right about an outcome but be completely crazy as to why they expect something to change. So why do you think that no physical connector will occur on upcoming iDevices.
An unsubstantiated rumor claims that Apple is looking to replace the venerable 30-pin iPhone, iPad and iPod dock connector with a smaller, space-saving successor that will possibly make a debut in the company's next generation iPhone.
Apple blog iMore has "heard" from unnamed sources that the iPhone maker is in 2010, and the technology found its way to the iPhone 4 to make space for a larger battery. The frugality went further as the internal antenna was displaced to the handset's edge, a design that caused the so-called "antenna-gate" fiasco.
Another factor is the connector's role in data transfer. With the advent of iCloud, AirPlay and the energy-sipping Bluetooth 4.0, a future iPhone may only need a cable for charging purposes.
It is unclear what would become of the huge ecosystem of existing "Made for iDevice" products, which is a lucrative business for both Apple and third-party companies, as it would be made obsolete by a redesigned connector.
Illustration of space taken by current dock connector in an iPhone. | Source: iMore
No further information was given, and it is important to reiterate that the aforementioned specifics were based on guesswork.
[ View article on AppleInsider ]
59 comments and a full day later and the article still has egregious errors in it? You people aren't even trying to be legible anymore.