Better tell these guys to either stop putting their applications on so many devices or that they're doing it wrong and that users of half these devices don't deserve an application that works, then.
They'd be fine with that, right? It's not like they actually want the money they make.
I don't want to see notifications all the time. NO ONE ON EARTH wants to see ads all the time. We already have the ability to see time, date, and signal.
But I'm curious if you have any ideas about the 'other' category. I'm staunchly opposed to a 'taller' screen, as it's mildly unusable and just looks outright stupid, but if there's a compelling change in the way the UI works, a taller screen might be able to grow on me.
Do check also what apps they put on the market with that much testing. It's quite telling about the company. Maybe they have reasons to need some additional testing...
Anyway, here's an idea for devs who can't muster enough brains to deal with more than three resolutions:
1. Pick a few companies that produce hardware with the OS of your chioce.
2. Buy their flagship devices (you may need to get ones from different US carriers due to the CDMA hardware difference)
3. Develop and test software ONLY for these devices. You will reach the most affluent customers who will be a lot likelier to pay for your efforts.
4. Profit.
Combined, Samsung Galaxy S line, Google Nexus line, Motorola Droid and HTC will give you enough customers.
What's the point to develop for the low-range cheap phones? Does any iOS dev only code for the venerable 3GS?
Think about just how many apps use a top/bottom bar UI (like Navigation and Tab Bar controllers) with a scroll view in the middle. I would be willing to bet that all such applications will scale exactly as one would expect, with showing just a bigger view. Interface Builder already allows for dynamic sizing of such UI styles. Games and videos could also scale with little effort, as I imagine most aren't hardcoded to device size as much as they detect the resolution they have to work with.
Sounds like you are assuming they will go with the changed aspect ratio screen, which is the least likely of all.
IMO the only reason people talk about this option a lot is because people like John Gruber are talking it up. Personally, I think the main reason for it's popularity is that most tech bloggers are male and the changed aspect ratio screen with the extra row of icons would make the iPhone penisshaped.
If Apple increase the screen size from 3.5" to 4", the change is small enough that they could keep the same resolution and aspect ratio and then 99% of apps wouldn't need to be modified at all. That's the most likely scenario if they do increase the screen size.
If they keep the same aspect ratio and resolution why would any apps need to be modified? As far as the apps are concern, nothing has changed in that scenario.
By the way, I think that is exactly what Apple will do. Going to 4" isn't enough of increase to justify changing the resolution or aspect ratio. Apple will still call it a retina display with the spin that since the screen is bigger, you won't be holding it as close which means the resolution can be less.
I don't want to see notifications all the time. NO ONE ON EARTH wants to see ads all the time. We already have the ability to see time, date, and signal.
But I'm curious if you have any ideas about the 'other' category. I'm staunchly opposed to a 'taller' screen, as it's mildly unusable and just looks outright stupid, but if there's a compelling change in the way the UI works, a taller screen might be able to grow on me.
Take a look at this for a good example - the KTVU (Bay Area channel 2) News app. In their intro screen, about 50% of the space it taken up with the app name banner, an ad, fixed banner bars ("top news", "local news", etc), and navigation bar. Even in a story, significant space is taken up by the navigation and top banners. Moving these to a "dedicated" banner spot would free up a lot of space for actual scrolling and reading.
If I understand the Developers response correctly, they want your money but they don't want to earn it. It's not like there are hundreds of different devices that their apps are running on. If the next iPhone has a different size and resolution, that brings the total to three right?
As long as the pixel width of the iphone screen remains at 640 px then there shouldn't be any problem. A slightly longer screen doesn't matter. The app developer can choose whether he makes use of the extra pixels or keeps the same aspect ratio. Current apps will simply stay at the same aspect ratio which means the screen will stay shorter (black bars above and below). Other apps can make use of the extra space (browsers, movies, books etc) with little effort.
I think it also makes a lot of sense to increase the width very slightly without increasing the number of pixels while increasing the length more significantly. That's where there is room to grow, conveniently, without changing the size of the phone noticably.
My prediction is a 4" screen with an aspect ratio of 1.6 (1024 x 640) giving a retina display of 302 px/inch. The phone will be 2 mm wider and 2 mm longer but 3 mm thinner and with more rounded edges so it will actually fit more easily in pockets. This should be within the realm of feasibility, especially with Apple's resources and more than 2 years of development.
This is yet another reason why Apple needs to make app installation on iDevices smart enough to only include the images needed for that particular device. Having images intended for my 3-gen iPad install on my iPhone 3GS makes no sense. Having every app on every iDevice include images for every other iDevice is ridiculous, particularly given the size of many people's music collections.
And as new versions of iOS come out, Apple also needs to make the iTunes store and iTunes (and the App Store) smart enough to retain (and supply) older versions of apps that aren't supported by some of a user's iDevices and OS versions. If they don't do that, the main reason for letting Apple manage apps, convenience, disappears.
The quoted "developers" are blowing their credibility here. Apple has been warning developers for years now not to make assumptions about screen density, aspect ratios and the like. Anybody with even a limited exposure to Apples tools and documentation should be aware of these warnings.
As to a possible new iPhone I can only guess at what Apple might have in store. The first is that most likely this won't be the "new" iPhone but an addition to the lineup. Second it would be foolish to come out with a new screen that doesn't support at least one of the common HDTV formats well. So I would expect an aspect ratio change. Beyond HDTV a wider screen would greatly enhance text entry and viewing in horizontal mode.
In the end I would suspect that the developers with issues here will be the ones that are impaired with respect to their reading skills. There will be app updates required but to one extent or another that always happens with a new iOS release. This is really not a big deal.
If I understand the Developers response correctly, they want your money but they don't want to earn it. It's not like there are hundreds of different devices that their apps are running on. If the next iPhone has a different size and resolution, that brings the total to three right?
Yeah pretty sad really. Mind you this is after years of Apple telling developers not to make assumptions about the screen. :no:
Take a look at this for a good example - the KTVU (Bay Area channel 2) News app. In their intro screen, about 50% of the space it taken up with the app name banner, an ad, fixed banner bars ("top news", "local news", etc), and navigation bar. Even in a story, significant space is taken up by the navigation and top banners. Moving these to a "dedicated" banner spot would free up a lot of space for actual scrolling and reading.
If the above example was coded correctly the programmer would have little to do to make it compliant with a larger screen iPhone. The scroll area would simply resize to the larger screen. There is no need for dedicated space on the screen.
If they keep the same aspect ratio and resolution why would any apps need to be modified? As far as the apps are concern, nothing has changed in that scenario.
By the way, I think that is exactly what Apple will do. Going to 4" isn't enough of increase to justify changing the resolution or aspect ratio. Apple will still call it a retina display with the spin that since the screen is bigger, you won't be holding it as close which means the resolution can be less.
-kpluck
Some apps may depend on exact physical dimensions. A ruler app (to measure inches or centimeters) comes to mind. Those apps are probably few and far between.
The problem with going to 4" without changing the aspect ratio is that the phone will be significantly wider (3 mm) which might not be deemed acceptable. Also the pixel density goes down to a sub-retina 288 px/inch which might also not be acceptable.
It'll certainly be interesting to see what Apple comes up with after more than 2 years of design development and near infinite resources.
What if the extra space was just enough to always show:
Notification Center, OR
iAds, OR
Time, Date, Signal, Etc, OR
something else so that the apps could have 100% of the space they use now, with the new space being utilized by Apple 99% of the time??
That wouldn't work in landscape mode, especially games.
Having said that, extra height in portrait mode can be useful for display such info, but individual app should be able to control whether they should be displayed or not (should default to FALSE).
Do you have any understanding of APIs and software development? Or do you just post trolling comments for laughs? Either way, no developer anywhere checks 200 devices, and nor is there a reason to.
It's interesting though that the developers of Angry Birds said that they investigated the various Android configurations as well as the hardware, and decided to just assure that it worked on a few of the most popular. They said that it was too much work to assure it worked on the majority of phones.
That doesn't mean that it might not work on phones they didn't bother with, but it might not either. It's a problem with the Android universe that not every app works on every phone, or, in a number of cases, even the majority. Even when it does, often, something is funky with the UI.
Yeah pretty sad really. Mind you this is after years of Apple telling developers not to make assumptions about the screen.
Apple makes the assumptions about the screen really straight forward. Xcode interface builder sets the screen size for you. If the new screen is the exact same aspect ratio it can scale without distortion, however the bitmapped images could be less than optimal resolution afterward. Ideally the developer should make decisions on the new size and rework their interfaces accordingly. Also remember there are two orientations so that also may impact what the best approach is, to be considered on a case by case basis.
Apple makes the assumptions about the screen really straight forward. Xcode interface builder sets the screen size for you. If the new screen is the exact same aspect ratio it can scale without distortion, however the bitmapped images could be less than optimal resolution afterward. Ideally the developer should make decisions on the new size and rework their interfaces accordingly. Also remember there are two orientations so that also may impact what the best approach is, to be considered on a case by case basis.
For very simple apps there probably is no real rework but many apps will need to be reworked for a new aspect ratio.
The reason the devs are unconcerned are the same reasons I'm not concerned: it's unlikely that Apple will change the aspect ratio and if they do change it they'll make sure it scales well enough for current apps to get by at the beginning.
What they aren't going to do is announce a new, incompatible, aspect ratio in June and then expect everyone to scramble for an Sept/Oct release. If they do, then they'll break a lot of developer trust that has been built up.
Thus far the two prior events (move to retina on the iPhone and move to iPad) have been handled very well.
My guess has been that the 4" displays being sourced are larger 4.7" displays destined for an iPod Touch refresh and will keep the current screen resolution and not be as "retina".
Take a look at this for a good example - the KTVU (Bay Area channel 2) News app. In their intro screen, about 50% of the space it taken up with the app name banner, an ad, fixed banner bars ("top news", "local news", etc), and navigation bar. Even in a story, significant space is taken up by the navigation and top banners. Moving these to a "dedicated" banner spot would free up a lot of space for actual scrolling and reading.
This is a craptastic looking app. Catering to the needs of craptastic app designers is probably not the way for Apple to go.
Sounds like you are assuming they will go with the changed aspect ratio screen, which is the least likely of all.
IMO the only reason people talk about this option a lot is because people like John Gruber are talking it up. Personally, I think the main reason for it's popularity is that most tech bloggers are male and the changed aspect ratio screen with the extra row of icons would make the iPhone penisshaped.
This was something John Gruber was putting out there, and was mentioned somewhere else as a way to get to a larger screen without having to increase the width of the phone. A really bad idea though. It would move the ratio further away from that of the iPad for no good reason.
I'm sure most people would rather have a phone an eigth of an inch wider to accomodate a continued 3:2 screen ratio for a 4" screen.
For very simple apps there probably is no real rework but many apps will need to be reworked for a new aspect ratio.
The reason the devs are unconcerned are the same reasons I'm not concerned: it's unlikely that Apple will change the aspect ratio and if they do change it they'll make sure it scales well enough for current apps to get by at the beginning.
What they aren't going to do is announce a new, incompatible, aspect ratio in June and then expect everyone to scramble for an Sept/Oct release. If they do, then they'll break a lot of developer trust that has been built up.
Thus far the two prior events (move to retina on the iPhone and move to iPad) have been handled very well.
My guess has been that the 4" displays being sourced are larger 4.7" displays destined for an iPod Touch refresh and will keep the current screen resolution and not be as "retina".
If they do make the screen slightly longer, which I hope they don't, the could always center current apps on that longer screen for esthetics sake. When developers decide to use the extra lines of pixels, they could do whatever they wanted to.
But this will make the UI for the phone and tablet even further apart. It would be more work for developers.
A small group of developers are not concerned about a theoretical change in the screen size, resolution or aspect ratio of a yet unannounced phone? I'm glad they're not concerned but I'm sure there are a ton of developers including myself that really don't want to have to deal with another screen size.
I still don't buy the rumor though. Apple doesn't have to buy into the ever increasing comically large phone screens to be successful. The trend in large screens is akin to tail fins on cars in the 50's. Every manufacturer tried to one up the other and the fins got bigger and bigger until we got the '59 El Dorado and then we realized how absurd the whole thing was to begin with and started to get rid of them.
The take away shouldn't be that because some debs aren't worried you have no right to be, the take away should be that Apple has a history of considering devs and users when considering transitions. The reasoning is simple, user experience, which extends to dev experience as this directly relates to quality and size of the app experience.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Better tell these guys to either stop putting their applications on so many devices or that they're doing it wrong and that users of half these devices don't deserve an application that works, then.
They'd be fine with that, right? It's not like they actually want the money they make.
I don't want to see notifications all the time. NO ONE ON EARTH wants to see ads all the time. We already have the ability to see time, date, and signal.
But I'm curious if you have any ideas about the 'other' category. I'm staunchly opposed to a 'taller' screen, as it's mildly unusable and just looks outright stupid, but if there's a compelling change in the way the UI works, a taller screen might be able to grow on me.
Do check also what apps they put on the market with that much testing. It's quite telling about the company. Maybe they have reasons to need some additional testing...
Anyway, here's an idea for devs who can't muster enough brains to deal with more than three resolutions:
1. Pick a few companies that produce hardware with the OS of your chioce.
2. Buy their flagship devices (you may need to get ones from different US carriers due to the CDMA hardware difference)
3. Develop and test software ONLY for these devices. You will reach the most affluent customers who will be a lot likelier to pay for your efforts.
4. Profit.
Combined, Samsung Galaxy S line, Google Nexus line, Motorola Droid and HTC will give you enough customers.
What's the point to develop for the low-range cheap phones? Does any iOS dev only code for the venerable 3GS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Barriault
Think about just how many apps use a top/bottom bar UI (like Navigation and Tab Bar controllers) with a scroll view in the middle. I would be willing to bet that all such applications will scale exactly as one would expect, with showing just a bigger view. Interface Builder already allows for dynamic sizing of such UI styles. Games and videos could also scale with little effort, as I imagine most aren't hardcoded to device size as much as they detect the resolution they have to work with.
Sounds like you are assuming they will go with the changed aspect ratio screen, which is the least likely of all.
IMO the only reason people talk about this option a lot is because people like John Gruber are talking it up. Personally, I think the main reason for it's popularity is that most tech bloggers are male and the changed aspect ratio screen with the extra row of icons would make the iPhone penis shaped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
If Apple increase the screen size from 3.5" to 4", the change is small enough that they could keep the same resolution and aspect ratio and then 99% of apps wouldn't need to be modified at all. That's the most likely scenario if they do increase the screen size.
If they keep the same aspect ratio and resolution why would any apps need to be modified? As far as the apps are concern, nothing has changed in that scenario.
By the way, I think that is exactly what Apple will do. Going to 4" isn't enough of increase to justify changing the resolution or aspect ratio. Apple will still call it a retina display with the spin that since the screen is bigger, you won't be holding it as close which means the resolution can be less.
-kpluck
I don't want to see notifications all the time. NO ONE ON EARTH wants to see ads all the time. We already have the ability to see time, date, and signal.
But I'm curious if you have any ideas about the 'other' category. I'm staunchly opposed to a 'taller' screen, as it's mildly unusable and just looks outright stupid, but if there's a compelling change in the way the UI works, a taller screen might be able to grow on me.
Take a look at this for a good example - the KTVU (Bay Area channel 2) News app. In their intro screen, about 50% of the space it taken up with the app name banner, an ad, fixed banner bars ("top news", "local news", etc), and navigation bar. Even in a story, significant space is taken up by the navigation and top banners. Moving these to a "dedicated" banner spot would free up a lot of space for actual scrolling and reading.
As long as the pixel width of the iphone screen remains at 640 px then there shouldn't be any problem. A slightly longer screen doesn't matter. The app developer can choose whether he makes use of the extra pixels or keeps the same aspect ratio. Current apps will simply stay at the same aspect ratio which means the screen will stay shorter (black bars above and below). Other apps can make use of the extra space (browsers, movies, books etc) with little effort.
I think it also makes a lot of sense to increase the width very slightly without increasing the number of pixels while increasing the length more significantly. That's where there is room to grow, conveniently, without changing the size of the phone noticably.
My prediction is a 4" screen with an aspect ratio of 1.6 (1024 x 640) giving a retina display of 302 px/inch. The phone will be 2 mm wider and 2 mm longer but 3 mm thinner and with more rounded edges so it will actually fit more easily in pockets. This should be within the realm of feasibility, especially with Apple's resources and more than 2 years of development.
This is yet another reason why Apple needs to make app installation on iDevices smart enough to only include the images needed for that particular device. Having images intended for my 3-gen iPad install on my iPhone 3GS makes no sense. Having every app on every iDevice include images for every other iDevice is ridiculous, particularly given the size of many people's music collections.
And as new versions of iOS come out, Apple also needs to make the iTunes store and iTunes (and the App Store) smart enough to retain (and supply) older versions of apps that aren't supported by some of a user's iDevices and OS versions. If they don't do that, the main reason for letting Apple manage apps, convenience, disappears.
As to a possible new iPhone I can only guess at what Apple might have in store. The first is that most likely this won't be the "new" iPhone but an addition to the lineup. Second it would be foolish to come out with a new screen that doesn't support at least one of the common HDTV formats well. So I would expect an aspect ratio change. Beyond HDTV a wider screen would greatly enhance text entry and viewing in horizontal mode.
In the end I would suspect that the developers with issues here will be the ones that are impaired with respect to their reading skills. There will be app updates required but to one extent or another that always happens with a new iOS release. This is really not a big deal.
Yeah pretty sad really. Mind you this is after years of Apple telling developers not to make assumptions about the screen. :no:
If the above example was coded correctly the programmer would have little to do to make it compliant with a larger screen iPhone. The scroll area would simply resize to the larger screen. There is no need for dedicated space on the screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck
If they keep the same aspect ratio and resolution why would any apps need to be modified? As far as the apps are concern, nothing has changed in that scenario.
By the way, I think that is exactly what Apple will do. Going to 4" isn't enough of increase to justify changing the resolution or aspect ratio. Apple will still call it a retina display with the spin that since the screen is bigger, you won't be holding it as close which means the resolution can be less.
-kpluck
Some apps may depend on exact physical dimensions. A ruler app (to measure inches or centimeters) comes to mind. Those apps are probably few and far between.
The problem with going to 4" without changing the aspect ratio is that the phone will be significantly wider (3 mm) which might not be deemed acceptable. Also the pixel density goes down to a sub-retina 288 px/inch which might also not be acceptable.
It'll certainly be interesting to see what Apple comes up with after more than 2 years of design development and near infinite resources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philtuttle
What if the extra space was just enough to always show:
Notification Center, OR
iAds, OR
Time, Date, Signal, Etc, OR
something else so that the apps could have 100% of the space they use now, with the new space being utilized by Apple 99% of the time??
That wouldn't work in landscape mode, especially games.
Having said that, extra height in portrait mode can be useful for display such info, but individual app should be able to control whether they should be displayed or not (should default to FALSE).
It's interesting though that the developers of Angry Birds said that they investigated the various Android configurations as well as the hardware, and decided to just assure that it worked on a few of the most popular. They said that it was too much work to assure it worked on the majority of phones.
That doesn't mean that it might not work on phones they didn't bother with, but it might not either. It's a problem with the Android universe that not every app works on every phone, or, in a number of cases, even the majority. Even when it does, often, something is funky with the UI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Yeah pretty sad really. Mind you this is after years of Apple telling developers not to make assumptions about the screen.
Apple makes the assumptions about the screen really straight forward. Xcode interface builder sets the screen size for you. If the new screen is the exact same aspect ratio it can scale without distortion, however the bitmapped images could be less than optimal resolution afterward. Ideally the developer should make decisions on the new size and rework their interfaces accordingly. Also remember there are two orientations so that also may impact what the best approach is, to be considered on a case by case basis.
Of course they're not concerned. Because they're much *more* concerned about making MONEY. And iOS = MONEY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Apple makes the assumptions about the screen really straight forward. Xcode interface builder sets the screen size for you. If the new screen is the exact same aspect ratio it can scale without distortion, however the bitmapped images could be less than optimal resolution afterward. Ideally the developer should make decisions on the new size and rework their interfaces accordingly. Also remember there are two orientations so that also may impact what the best approach is, to be considered on a case by case basis.
For very simple apps there probably is no real rework but many apps will need to be reworked for a new aspect ratio.
The reason the devs are unconcerned are the same reasons I'm not concerned: it's unlikely that Apple will change the aspect ratio and if they do change it they'll make sure it scales well enough for current apps to get by at the beginning.
What they aren't going to do is announce a new, incompatible, aspect ratio in June and then expect everyone to scramble for an Sept/Oct release. If they do, then they'll break a lot of developer trust that has been built up.
Thus far the two prior events (move to retina on the iPhone and move to iPad) have been handled very well.
My guess has been that the 4" displays being sourced are larger 4.7" displays destined for an iPod Touch refresh and will keep the current screen resolution and not be as "retina".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff
Take a look at this for a good example - the KTVU (Bay Area channel 2) News app. In their intro screen, about 50% of the space it taken up with the app name banner, an ad, fixed banner bars ("top news", "local news", etc), and navigation bar. Even in a story, significant space is taken up by the navigation and top banners. Moving these to a "dedicated" banner spot would free up a lot of space for actual scrolling and reading.
This is a craptastic looking app. Catering to the needs of craptastic app designers is probably not the way for Apple to go.
This was something John Gruber was putting out there, and was mentioned somewhere else as a way to get to a larger screen without having to increase the width of the phone. A really bad idea though. It would move the ratio further away from that of the iPad for no good reason.
I'm sure most people would rather have a phone an eigth of an inch wider to accomodate a continued 3:2 screen ratio for a 4" screen.
If they do make the screen slightly longer, which I hope they don't, the could always center current apps on that longer screen for esthetics sake. When developers decide to use the extra lines of pixels, they could do whatever they wanted to.
But this will make the UI for the phone and tablet even further apart. It would be more work for developers.
The take away shouldn't be that because some debs aren't worried you have no right to be, the take away should be that Apple has a history of considering devs and users when considering transitions. The reasoning is simple, user experience, which extends to dev experience as this directly relates to quality and size of the app experience.