Apple, Samsung fail to reach agreement in court-ordered talks
After two days of settlement talks involving each of the companies' chief executives, Apple and Samsung failed to reach an agreement that would end their sprawling patent infringement suits.
The California trial between Samsung and Apple is now headed for a scheduled start in late June, after the companies could find "no clear agreement," a Samsung official told The Korea Times. Both companies reportedly held firm in their respective beliefs, as Samsung believes Apple should pay royalties for using wireless transmission technology, while Apple believes Samsung copied the design of its iPhone and iPad.
The lack of resolution is not surprising to onlookers, as the discussions involving Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook and Samsung CEO Choi Gee-sung were court-ordered. The two took part in discussions on Monday and Tuesday of this week in San Francisco, Calif.
A similar outcome occurred last year, when Oracle's Larry Ellison and Google's Larry Page took part in a court-ordered mediation. No settlement was reached in that case either, and the case eventually went to trial.
Though the discussions with Apple have concluded, Samsung CEO Choi and Shin Jong-kyun, the company's mobile division chief, remain in the U.S. and are reportedly inspecting the company's stateside operations before returning to their home country of South Korea.
Experts have said that thus far, there has not been much of an incentive for Apple to settle its patent infringement dispute with Samsung, as the iPhone maker has yet to lose an infringement claim lodged by Samsung. Instead, Apple has earned a handful of victories and won infringements barring the sale of various Samsung products around the world.
Apple hopes to find even more success in the courtroom with a new injunction filed last week in the U.S. against the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1. An injunction against the device would not likely be a major financial issue for Samsung, which previously redesigned the device in Germany to avoid infringement. But it would be a publicity win for Apple, which has asserted that Samsung has illegally copied the look and feel of its popular iPhone and iPad product lineups.
The California trial between Samsung and Apple is now headed for a scheduled start in late June, after the companies could find "no clear agreement," a Samsung official told The Korea Times. Both companies reportedly held firm in their respective beliefs, as Samsung believes Apple should pay royalties for using wireless transmission technology, while Apple believes Samsung copied the design of its iPhone and iPad.
The lack of resolution is not surprising to onlookers, as the discussions involving Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook and Samsung CEO Choi Gee-sung were court-ordered. The two took part in discussions on Monday and Tuesday of this week in San Francisco, Calif.
A similar outcome occurred last year, when Oracle's Larry Ellison and Google's Larry Page took part in a court-ordered mediation. No settlement was reached in that case either, and the case eventually went to trial.
Though the discussions with Apple have concluded, Samsung CEO Choi and Shin Jong-kyun, the company's mobile division chief, remain in the U.S. and are reportedly inspecting the company's stateside operations before returning to their home country of South Korea.
Experts have said that thus far, there has not been much of an incentive for Apple to settle its patent infringement dispute with Samsung, as the iPhone maker has yet to lose an infringement claim lodged by Samsung. Instead, Apple has earned a handful of victories and won infringements barring the sale of various Samsung products around the world.
Apple hopes to find even more success in the courtroom with a new injunction filed last week in the U.S. against the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1. An injunction against the device would not likely be a major financial issue for Samsung, which previously redesigned the device in Germany to avoid infringement. But it would be a publicity win for Apple, which has asserted that Samsung has illegally copied the look and feel of its popular iPhone and iPad product lineups.
Comments
Of course they didn't! Why on earth would Apple be interested in "agreements" when they could just as easily get what they want out of a trial?
To what advantage is it to Apple to offer concessions, especially at this very point in the company's amazing performance? Apple is set to own the next 5-7 years in consumer tech. There is no reason to not push their legal concerns as hard as possible. Consumers are on board, Apple has the money and the experience, etc. Why bother negotiating with the competition? Just so you can chip away at your own level of differentiation? Differentiation is the rarest commodity in this turkey of an industry that Apple has turned on its head. To give *any* of that away via patent concessions or licensing agreements is madness. The only reason Apple is a force today (and a key reason for their unparalleled success) *is* a level of differentiation that no one else has employed or has been able to.
Time to carry out Steve Job's wishes of "going nuclear"?
Wow. What a surprise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Of course they didn't! Why on earth would Apple be interested in "agreements" when they could just as easily get what they want out of a trial?
To what advantage is it to Apple to offer concessions, especially at this very point in the company's amazing performance? Apple is set to own the next 5-7 years in consumer tech. There is no reason to not push their legal concerns as hard as possible. Consumers are on board, Apple has the money and the experience, etc. Why bother negotiating with the competition? Just so you can chip away at your own level of differentiation? Differentiation is the rarest commodity in this turkey of an industry that Apple has turned on its head. To give *any* of that away via patent concessions or licensing agreements is madness. The only reason Apple is a force today (and a key reason for their unparalleled success) *is* a level of differentiation that no one else has employed or has been able to.
Couldn't have put it better. Be it a Kia or a few years back, Lexus / Toyota copying a BMW or Mercedes design or some cigarette lighter maker in Japan 40 years ago copying Ronson's design I am personally sick and tiered of this Asian MO of simply making what the west designs only cheaper (which easy in many cases if you are just copying). It's about time some company stood up to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Of course they didn't! Why on earth would Apple be interested in "agreements" when they could just as easily get what they want out of a trial?
To what advantage is it to Apple to offer concessions, especially at this very point in the company's amazing performance? Apple is set to own the next 5-7 years in consumer tech. There is no reason to not push their legal concerns as hard as possible. Consumers are on board, Apple has the money and the experience, etc. Why bother negotiating with the competition? Just so you can chip away at your own level of differentiation? Differentiation is the rarest commodity in this turkey of an industry that Apple has turned on its head. To give *any* of that away via patent concessions or licensing agreements is madness. The only reason Apple is a force today (and a key reason for their unparalleled success) *is* a level of differentiation that no one else has employed or has been able to.
Well put. There may be agreements and compromises to be made on such things as wireless transmission technology, but when it comes to hardware and software design (as in the aesthetic qualities and the resultant user experience), it is a different story.
There's really nothing to agree to on wireless transmission technology. Those patents are FRAND. The negotiation doesn't need to be any longer than this.
Samsung: We demand payment for our wireless transmission patents
Apple: OK. What is the amount you are charging everyone else?
Samsung can easily get the amount they're charging everyone else. They can not get more from Apple. So the discussion on that issue shouldn't take long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
There's really nothing to agree to on wireless transmission technology. Those patents are FRAND. The negotiation doesn't need to be any longer than this.
Samsung: We demand payment for our wireless transmission patents
Apple: OK. What is the amount you are charging everyone else?
Samsung can easily get the amount they're charging everyone else. They can not get more from Apple. So the discussion on that issue shouldn't take long.
Yep, those FRAND patents are supposed to be like 90% of what Samsung is trying to use against Apple. The other 10% are patents of questionable validity. Apple would want them slammed in court on the FRAND issue because Samsung deserves it. And would want the other bits invalidated in court to avoid going through this again at any point.
Just like they want their design patent validated by the courts because once a court says yes it is valid it will make it easier to get other courts to say the same, especially if they get it up to a higher level that would have precedent setting authority over lesser courts. One victory in the right court and Apple could move and get summary judgment on a good dozen similar cases.
Also as I have heard it, Apple isn't fussing over the actual fee being asked for as much as the form of payment. Samsung is basically refusing to take cash for those FRAND patents but wants it paid in access to Apple patents that are vital to the uniqueness of the iOS lineup and are not FRAND (so Apple doesn't legally have to license them to anyone). That it seems is Apple's major issue even before the issue of the actual fee comes into play.
Samsung has a huge amount of IP, unfortunately most of it is FRAND or related to their semiconductor business. Samsung literally has thousands of patents related to manufacturing of semis, DRAM, Flash and processors. Unfortunately, when someone buys components (like Apple) the IP is included so there's no way this huge cache of IP can be used in any way in their legal battles.
I find it funny that out of all the legal wrangling so far, the only thing Samsung has achieved is to get an official antitrust investigation from the EU for using FRAND patents to seek injunctions against Apple. It's one thing to file a suit and get denied (this has happened to Apple as well), but wuite another to have a suit denied and then be faced with the possibility of substantial fines.
Exactly who was doing the talking in this?
Was in Tim and Samsung's CEO and possible a translator involved with lawyers to advise and nothing more? Or was it their lawyers doing the talking with the two there to merely observe and give a thumbs up or thumbs down?
If it was their lawyers then its obvious it would've failed. those guys have no interest in a resolution. Long drawn out battle = more money for them.
That's not how most lawyers work. Good lawyers have plenty of work to keep busy and are better served by doing what's best for their clients.
More importantly, Apple would probably be using its in-house lawyers for this negotiation and they are on salary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
There's really nothing to agree to on wireless transmission technology. Those patents are FRAND. The negotiation doesn't need to be any longer than this.
Samsung: We demand payment for our wireless transmission patents
Apple: OK. What is the amount you are charging everyone else?
There is no way Apple should pay as much as everyone else. They will be buying bigger volumes or licenses, and their creditworthyness is better than anybody else.,
Apple should by right pay LESS than anybody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Couldn't have put it better. Be it a Kia or a few years back, Lexus / Toyota copying a BMW or Mercedes design or some cigarette lighter maker in Japan 40 years ago copying Ronson's design I am personally sick and tiered of this Asian MO of simply making what the west designs only cheaper (which easy in many cases if you are just copying). It's about time some company stood up to them.
Asian MO?
Wow!
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Couldn't have put it better. Be it a Kia or a few years back, Lexus / Toyota copying a BMW or Mercedes design or some cigarette lighter maker in Japan 40 years ago copying Ronson's design I am personally sick and tiered of this Asian MO of simply making what the west designs only cheaper (which easy in many cases if you are just copying). It's about time some company stood up to them.
Yeah, I agree.
The mobile projector
quad core processors
voice controls
8 megapixel cameras
4g LTE
wireless syncing
multitasking
pressure sensitive styluses
curved glass
deep black AMOLED displays
NFC
Face Unlock
Burst mode photo shooting
taking pictures while shooting video
pop up video players while using another app
eye recognition anti-lock
....the list goes on
....all things the iphone had FIRST that these asian manufacturers just slavishly copied and put onto their handsets
Downright disgusting
I mean, what next? They gonna steal the 4-inch screen that apple came up with first?
Apple on the other hand, all of the things in the iphone were done by them FIRST. They didn't copy anyone. I still wonder how they came up with the brilliant idea for a drop down notification menu or a messaging application that allows free iphone messaging...maybe if RIM think of something like that they wouldn't be in so much trouble right now.
Why don't you show us where Apple claimed to have done all of the above first?
Put up or shut up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Why don't you show us where Apple claimed to have done all of the above first?
Put up or shut up.
Show me where i said APPLE said that. Put up or shut up.
I was simply saying that I, like the rest of this forum, am of the opinion that all asian manufacturers do is copy apple ideas and i simply listed the ideas that apple came up with first which were then copied. You can't deny, Samsung and company stole all of those ideas from apple. All they do is steal, they could never have come up with even something as simple as wireless syncing if apple didn't show them the way. Its MY opinion that they stole it from apple, and the opinion of the rest of this forum as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
I do believe that was a feature added by an app on jailbroken iPhones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Wow. What a surprise.
Yeah! I never saw this coming at all!!
I thought Apple was just gonna roll over and pee on itself in awe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Couldn't have put it better. Be it a Kia or a few years back, Lexus / Toyota copying a BMW or Mercedes design or some cigarette lighter maker in Japan 40 years ago copying Ronson's design I am personally sick and tiered of this Asian MO of simply making what the west designs only cheaper (which easy in many cases if you are just copying). It's about time some company stood up to them.
Nice one you bigot. You think Apple never copying anyone right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
Its MY opinion that they stole it from apple, and the opinion of the rest of this forum as well.
Hey that is YOUR opinion and donn't speak for everyone else as you certainly don't speak for me.
Because there's always the chance of losing just like Oracle did and you get nothing.