I am surprised at his ignorance? There are thousands of tool and die "shops" in the US
And on, it is not a dying trade. It is the basis of any number of industries from simple plastic injection molding to building nuclear aircraft carriers.
I don't see Apple doing US assembly until it can be done completely by robots with humans simply loading and unloading completed products and components, respectively. Hire humans to oversee the lines and repair the robots. Plant powered by solar and biogas.
Robot not = flexible; at least as they are today. Until there is real AI, nothing is as flexible as a human being.
yeah, bash the US union workers who wanted living wage so the they could buy home & a car, support their family, pay US & state taxes, & put money into a retirement system so they wouldn't be a burden to society later on (no government money needed nor accepted). However, since everyone wants to pay $400 for a $1200 TV, they feel US workers are too overpaid. US businesses tried to compete by eliminating pensions & healthcare for workers (working employees part time), but still can't compete. Unless we can get US workers to accept pay so low they they want to jump off buildings to relieve the stress of their existence and/or send their children to the factories, it ain't gonna happen. It will never happen in California where state laws & taxes have driven businesses out of the State. The few who remain, are being taxed out of existance to make the difference. The turnaround requires an individual committment to purchase US goods at a real, fair price or US infrastructure will continue to collapse. US people re making themselves poor. Let others buy the cheap goods. Make Apple stuff in the US & I will pay the higher price...for its actual value.
Incredible how no one bashes executive compensation, how some companies are extremely top heavy. How much is RIM paying its execs to run it into the ground? Millions? I could achieve the same effect for much less. GM was busy building Hummers while Toyota was building Prius', and who pays for such ineptitude? The lowly auto worker not the dumbass execs with their heads up their asses.
Robot not = flexible; at least as they are today. Until there is real AI, nothing is as flexible as a human being.
Really? Can we not make a machine to assemble an iPhone? I look at some of these teardowns of Apple products and think to myself that there's no way a human hand could have assembled some of these parts.
Transportation is more expensive, there are not enough manufacturers of this or that, and, if you look at other companies like GM, AA, and so on, you'll see the big, actually huge, problem with employee's costs.
So, it doesn't matter how much you would "like to" do something. In the end, if it costs 80% more to do the same thing, you simply won't.
Infrastructure can be improved, taxes dollars could go to that instead of wars or bailouts for companies that don't give a damn (quality issues with some bailed out companies have been driving me insane).
However, people will not want their salary or way of working affected. That will only be possible again when China's work force start to ask for more benefits, better salaries and so on.
Once those two are in line, makers will come back.
People want to come back, thus why this question arises every now and then. It is just not possible. Would you like to pay $100 more for your iPhone just to have it made in America? How about the competition? Would they do the same? That is history, already happened, the main reason why these factories moved there in the first place.
The U.S. needs to create an industrial zone exempt from minimum wage laws and anti-business bureaucracy. That would bring manufacturers back.
Absolutely not.
Minimum wage in this country is already poverty. It's hardly a living wage, which is the kind of manufacturing jobs we need here.
What will bring manufacturing jobs back is if we set tariffs on imported products based on the wages paid to manufacture those products. If a company pays $1/hour in China, add a tax equivalent of 6.25/hour to the product upon import (and increase that tax as the minimum wage here increases). It won't hurt products manufactured in living wage countries like Germany or Japan at all, but it will quickly become no more profitable to manufacture in China than it is here.
We do need to streamline some of the bureaucracy, but not at the expense of safety, environment, or union labor.
There are a few US industries that do quite well in exporting to the Far East including China. One such industry segment is private universities. They export high tech knowledge. That knowledge is then used to compete with the US. The universities are making tons of money off of tuition and housing for foreign students but at what cost to our technological superiority?
What would be the point of that? Bring a piece of China to the US?
Yes. There is a huge market for low-cost manufacturing and most of it goes to China. If the U.S. really wants this business (as oppose to just wishful thinking) then laws will need to change. If the U.S. does not want low-cost manufacturing jobs, that is fine too, don't change anything. I am not for or against low-cost manufacturing coming to the U.S. I am just saying if people want it to really happen then laws will need to change.
Yes. There is a huge market for low-cost manufacturing and most of it goes to China. If the U.S. really wants this business (as oppose to just wishful thinking) then laws will need to change. If the U.S. does not want low-cost manufacturing jobs, that is fine too, don't change anything. I am not for or against low-cost manufacturing coming to the U.S. I am just saying if people want it to really happen then laws will need to change.
You say "if the U.S. really wants this business", and then you say "if people want". I think that you mean a specific, very small group of people in both cases, which cannot be identified with "the U.S."
Really? Can we not make a machine to assemble an iPhone? I look at some of these teardowns of Apple products and think to myself that there's no way a human hand could have assembled some of these parts.
But the design is changed every year. Can the robot hardware or its software keep up?
That attitude is precisely why manufacturing will NEVER return to the United States. It's getting to the point that people see they can make more money by sitting on their butts on welfare than to work at a job. But as the old saying goes "The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." See Greece for confirmation of that tidbit.
So Atlas shrugged and dropped what he was holding up.
But the design is changed every year. Can the robot hardware or its software keep up?
But it isn't changed every year. I'm certain hardware and software can keep up, as it's the same hardware needed and just new instruction patterns written.
Even if Apple did decide to conduct assembly in America, the cost to transport components would likely be too high for Apple to bear, the report said.
The logistics are the deal breakers here. It's more efficient to ship fully-assembled products from Asia to end-users and Apple Stores around the world. Because most of the components are made in Asia. And the component makers are moving their factories closer to the final assembly plants for even greater efficiency.
Yes, Corning makes the glass panels for iPhone and iPad in Harrisburg, Kentucky. And yes, the Samsung chip fab that makes the A5X chip is in Austin, Texas. But overall it would cost too much to ship components to the US. It has to be done by air, therefore the cargo has to be high value, which means fully-assembled and packaged units.
But it isn't changed every year. I'm certain hardware and software can keep up, as it's the same hardware needed and just new instruction patterns written.
Ah, well if you're certain, then I'm SHOCKED that phones aren't already assembled this way! You should probably arrange a meeting with the CEO to let him know how to do it.
Ah, well if you're certain, then I'm SHOCKED that phones aren't already assembled this way! You should probably arrange a meeting with the CEO to let him know how to do it.
Nice. I'm certain initial operations setup cost has nothing to do with it at all.
Cook left something out. It would be highly difficult for Apple to create American jobs and still make profit hand-over-fist. Apple would have to follow the same employee and environmental protections that countless other profitable companies follow. Apple has shown itself to be pretty good at avoiding taxes, in part because of taxpayer subsidies.
Comments
I am surprised at his ignorance? There are thousands of tool and die "shops" in the US
And on, it is not a dying trade. It is the basis of any number of industries from simple plastic injection molding to building nuclear aircraft carriers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I don't see Apple doing US assembly until it can be done completely by robots with humans simply loading and unloading completed products and components, respectively. Hire humans to oversee the lines and repair the robots. Plant powered by solar and biogas.
Robot not = flexible; at least as they are today. Until there is real AI, nothing is as flexible as a human being.
Incredible how no one bashes executive compensation, how some companies are extremely top heavy. How much is RIM paying its execs to run it into the ground? Millions? I could achieve the same effect for much less. GM was busy building Hummers while Toyota was building Prius', and who pays for such ineptitude? The lowly auto worker not the dumbass execs with their heads up their asses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonord
Robot not = flexible; at least as they are today. Until there is real AI, nothing is as flexible as a human being.
Really? Can we not make a machine to assemble an iPhone? I look at some of these teardowns of Apple products and think to myself that there's no way a human hand could have assembled some of these parts.
And does anyone know how the Apple Remote is made? Ah, answered my own question. It's astounding how this thing is done!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb
The U.S. needs to create an industrial zone exempt from minimum wage laws and anti-business bureaucracy. That would bring manufacturers back.
What would be the point of that? Bring a piece of China to the US?
The US resembles a first-world country within a third-world country close enough.
There is no way the US could muster the breadth and extent of human capital that Asia can.
Transportation is more expensive, there are not enough manufacturers of this or that, and, if you look at other companies like GM, AA, and so on, you'll see the big, actually huge, problem with employee's costs.
So, it doesn't matter how much you would "like to" do something. In the end, if it costs 80% more to do the same thing, you simply won't.
Infrastructure can be improved, taxes dollars could go to that instead of wars or bailouts for companies that don't give a damn (quality issues with some bailed out companies have been driving me insane).
However, people will not want their salary or way of working affected. That will only be possible again when China's work force start to ask for more benefits, better salaries and so on.
Once those two are in line, makers will come back.
People want to come back, thus why this question arises every now and then. It is just not possible. Would you like to pay $100 more for your iPhone just to have it made in America? How about the competition? Would they do the same? That is history, already happened, the main reason why these factories moved there in the first place.
Absolutely not.
Minimum wage in this country is already poverty. It's hardly a living wage, which is the kind of manufacturing jobs we need here.
What will bring manufacturing jobs back is if we set tariffs on imported products based on the wages paid to manufacture those products. If a company pays $1/hour in China, add a tax equivalent of 6.25/hour to the product upon import (and increase that tax as the minimum wage here increases). It won't hurt products manufactured in living wage countries like Germany or Japan at all, but it will quickly become no more profitable to manufacture in China than it is here.
We do need to streamline some of the bureaucracy, but not at the expense of safety, environment, or union labor.
There are a few US industries that do quite well in exporting to the Far East including China. One such industry segment is private universities. They export high tech knowledge. That knowledge is then used to compete with the US. The universities are making tons of money off of tuition and housing for foreign students but at what cost to our technological superiority?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio
What would be the point of that? Bring a piece of China to the US?
Yes. There is a huge market for low-cost manufacturing and most of it goes to China. If the U.S. really wants this business (as oppose to just wishful thinking) then laws will need to change. If the U.S. does not want low-cost manufacturing jobs, that is fine too, don't change anything. I am not for or against low-cost manufacturing coming to the U.S. I am just saying if people want it to really happen then laws will need to change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb
Yes. There is a huge market for low-cost manufacturing and most of it goes to China. If the U.S. really wants this business (as oppose to just wishful thinking) then laws will need to change. If the U.S. does not want low-cost manufacturing jobs, that is fine too, don't change anything. I am not for or against low-cost manufacturing coming to the U.S. I am just saying if people want it to really happen then laws will need to change.
You say "if the U.S. really wants this business", and then you say "if people want". I think that you mean a specific, very small group of people in both cases, which cannot be identified with "the U.S."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Really? Can we not make a machine to assemble an iPhone? I look at some of these teardowns of Apple products and think to myself that there's no way a human hand could have assembled some of these parts.
But the design is changed every year. Can the robot hardware or its software keep up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney
A new state: Dickensia
That attitude is precisely why manufacturing will NEVER return to the United States. It's getting to the point that people see they can make more money by sitting on their butts on welfare than to work at a job. But as the old saying goes "The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." See Greece for confirmation of that tidbit.
So Atlas shrugged and dropped what he was holding up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonord
But the design is changed every year. Can the robot hardware or its software keep up?
But it isn't changed every year. I'm certain hardware and software can keep up, as it's the same hardware needed and just new instruction patterns written.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Even if Apple did decide to conduct assembly in America, the cost to transport components would likely be too high for Apple to bear, the report said.
The logistics are the deal breakers here. It's more efficient to ship fully-assembled products from Asia to end-users and Apple Stores around the world. Because most of the components are made in Asia. And the component makers are moving their factories closer to the final assembly plants for even greater efficiency.
Yes, Corning makes the glass panels for iPhone and iPad in Harrisburg, Kentucky. And yes, the Samsung chip fab that makes the A5X chip is in Austin, Texas. But overall it would cost too much to ship components to the US. It has to be done by air, therefore the cargo has to be high value, which means fully-assembled and packaged units.
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
But it isn't changed every year. I'm certain hardware and software can keep up, as it's the same hardware needed and just new instruction patterns written.
Ah, well if you're certain, then I'm SHOCKED that phones aren't already assembled this way! You should probably arrange a meeting with the CEO to let him know how to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
Ah, well if you're certain, then I'm SHOCKED that phones aren't already assembled this way! You should probably arrange a meeting with the CEO to let him know how to do it.
Nice. I'm certain initial operations setup cost has nothing to do with it at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Nice. I'm certain initial operations setup cost has nothing to do with it at all.
You're certain of a lot of things considering you're a forum moderator and not paid for manufacturing expertise!
It would be highly difficult for Apple to create American jobs and still make profit hand-over-fist.
Apple would have to follow the same employee and environmental protections that countless other profitable companies follow. Apple has shown itself to be pretty good at avoiding taxes, in part because of taxpayer subsidies.