So, sorry if this is an ignorant question, but does this mean that WP7 apps will not run at all on WP8 devices? It sounds that way, but it seems like that would be disastrous for them.
So, sorry if this is an ignorant question, but does this mean that WP7 apps will not run at all on WP8 devices? It sounds that way, but it seems like that would be disastrous for them.
Metro UI was cool when it first came out, but it's wearing out so fast.
I said the same thing about iOS two years ago. The iOS UI has changed zero times and (in my opinion) is the phone with the most dated UI.
I love my iPhone, but am willing to admit when it appears Microsoft really wants to compete by having created something truly different. And now, with the resizable, customizable tiles coming in the Fall, I'm afraid it's truly time for Apple to at LEAST offer some kind of deeper customization on the front end.
except it doesn't work anyplace you actually go yet.
e-wallet is never going to happen until the major credit card companies adopt their standardized protocols for it so it can be integrated into all point of sale equipment. they don't seem to be in a hurry.
that's why iOS 6 will add the more modest Passbook app. it will be something you can acutally use now, not vapor.
What impresses me (too much?) is that it uses the same kernel as the other flavors of Windoze. Reportedly, that will allow easier transformation of full fledged programs to tablet and cellphone apps.
Also, there is backwards compatibility for Winphone 7.5, so legacy phone apps will run on the new hardware/software.
The folks who recently bought windows 7 phones seem to have gotten screwed, however, depending on how good Windows 7.8 turns out to be.
At any rate, this is a bold move by M$, and it makes a whole lot of sense to me that they did it this way. It will be ugly for a while, especially for the likes of Nokia. But in the end, I think the overall strategy is sound. Let's see them execute it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Will not support a single current phone on the market. Absolutely brutal. This is how you retain customer loyalty? And Apple gets raked through the coals when a 2+ year old phone doesn't support all the software features of their newest OS update.
I never understood the cliche that is always repeated that Apple loves 'obsoleting' people's devices, when it seems they're the best in the bunch by far with supporting their devices. Don't get me started with Android device support.
WinPhone 7 was always a placeholder and testbed (if the inspiration for the whole Win 8 interface across the line) - and met a need to quit even showing the v6 nightmare until Win 8 without exiting the phone market altogether for years. That's been clear for well over a year or more. Win 8 will likely be as supported upgradeability-wise going forward across all device lines as any version of Windows.
And that's true even if Win 8 - a transition system with various varieties of hiccups and bad compromises - turns out to be the next Vista that's followed by a Win 9 which will last as long as Win 7 - and even the venerable highly-patched XP that's still chugging along on hundreds of millions of machines after a decade.
Further point and other upgrades will be much better handled than Android's managed to date. (Not that that's exactly a high bar to jump over.....)
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke
This is nuclear. Microsoft just deprecated the entire WP7 platform. If you bought a Lumia your phone is now worthless.
But not all that different to the effect of iOS6 on original iPads.... ...they'll do what they've done and as well as they've done it, and while they've been left in the dust future-wise, they're hardly "useless."
And while PPC was supported for quite awhile, it's now on the dust heap - I can't upgrade many things anymore, but I understand it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CogitoDexter
So Microsoft announce another product that won't be available for months. But worse, they announce that none of the current products will be compatible with it. The Windows Phone market is already tiny and struggling. This is just going to stop it in its tracks until October. Who in their right minds would buy a WinPho now?
Does Microsoft have ANY commercial acumen at the top at all?
Commercially, the entire Win Phone 7 base is miniscule - because it HASN'T sold much for whatever reasons - and still isn't exactly burning up the charts. If Win Phone 8 gains any traction - and I believe it will, at least among business users - they'll fairly quickly reach a point where they're selling more phones per quarter than 7 ever sold in total. And the Win Phone 7 users will upgrade at the end of their contracts, so there will be even fewer of them quickly. So since the code has changed so much, this is the best commercial decision (of a bad bunch) they can make. Plus they had to get the news out to the entire infrastructure of partners they're going to have to rely on - even if leaves a gap of some months.
As for current sales, how many phone customers are surfing sites like this and have any notion of the upcoming transition? If a typical purchaser is attracted by the lines and look of a cool blue Lumia, 90% of those are as likely to buy it as they were yesterday. So some impact over the next few months but not that much. And I'm reasonably sure MS plans to shore up (if not purchase) Nokia in the meantime. The company got lost and made strategic missteps, but much of it is still a fundamentally sound company with good chops and skilled employees. And I'm betting they'll make it back to profitability - on the back of Win 8 derived devices (if mostly phones).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAdOwXPR
Wow very impressive win8 desktop/tablet/win8'phone all running on the same core OS. iOS will use the cloud to connect iOS to OSX and windows. But IMHO the synergy Microsoft has could be huge.
The nextgen Xbox should also run the same core OS to finish the cycle...
Tend to agree. MS is bringing Windows to phones, whereas Apple's bringing iOS elements to OS X. And interface prefs aside, Siri still looks like the big differentiator. On the other hand, the intro of the Surface stuff was very underwhelming. Floppy keyboards and kickstands on a device most people will want to work with effortlessly from lap to table to bed, etc.? Kludgy as hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulfoaf
Because nothing says security like "Microsoft."
Already answered below. But I'll add that in fact I've had no security problems on my Win towers at all in the last four years. I still have to run anti-malware, sure, and I open any odd looking emails I want to check on my Macs, but the "security gap" is in practice an old saw that just doesn't cut much any more. Whereas Android is the new frontier of insecurity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAdOwXPR
The truth is Microsoft right now is great on security because they have been battling it for decades. Apple and google are not on part IMHO. I love my Mac but the truth is the truth...
"A is A. A thing is itself."
(I can, but wondering anyone else here is able to and cares to source that quote?)
Will not support a single current phone on the market. Absolutely brutal. This is how you retain customer loyalty?
There were hardly any customers for WP7.x anyway, loosing 50% of them matters less than possible winning 10% of current Android customers (not that I would make that prediction but MS is essentially doing another reset which might be better for them than keeping the 3% of smartphone purchasers happy that actually bought WP7 devices).
So Microsoft announce another product that won't be available for months. But worse, they announce that none of the current products will be compatible with it. The Windows Phone market is already tiny and struggling. This is just going to stop it in its tracks until October. Who in their right minds would buy a WinPho now?
Does Microsoft have ANY commercial acumen at the top at all?
It has been known for a while that WP8 would not run on existing devices, this is just a more public message than before. And the development environment is also changing completely from Silverlight to more standard Windows tools (.net etc.). So, if you have developed for WP7, you have to learn a new language again to develop for WP8, but again this has been known for a while already.
Nokia got Double Osborned. After seeing the effects of pre-announcing Symbian being deprecated, how are carriers and customers going to feel about Nokia's WP7 line up now they know that it's not upgradeable and the next version of WP has a completely incompatible API? No developers are going to continue working on WP7. This is very bad news for Nokia. They're toast.
Not being upgradable has not hurt Android handsets at those carriers much, hasn't it?
I said the same thing about iOS two years ago. The iOS UI has changed zero times and (in my opinion) is the phone with the most dated UI.
I love my iPhone, but am willing to admit when it appears Microsoft really wants to compete by having created something truly different. And now, with the resizable, customizable tiles coming in the Fall, I'm afraid it's truly time for Apple to at LEAST offer some kind of deeper customization on the front end.
Absolutely. Apple had the chance to change UI with iOS 6 but they didn't. Now no matter how many specs they improve or new hardware perks they add in the next gen. iPhone, it will be the same old iOS 6. It feels bit odd to say but iOS is now feeling little boring.
At WWDC 2012, it was hilarious when Forstall mentioned features like Facebook integration, Mail VIP folder & Phone 'reply with message' as one of the major features. Last year it was notification center, twitter integration & reminders. It felt like they were trying to catch up with Android. Come on. Now with WP8, they really need to make substantial changes in UI of iOS. Their static icons UI feels dated.
Why to hold down a home button & ask siri about weather or pull down a notification center to check weather in iOS when one can check the current live weather right on the tile of WP8 home screen. User can also check the weather on live widget on Android ICS home screen.
I have been using iPhone for a long time now but these differences in the functionality show that it's time for Apple to stop calling iOS as world's most advanced mobile operating system.
It's actually pretty funny to see all the msft haters here yelling how disastrous this is for developers and wp7 owners.
I own a Lumia 900. I don't think this is desastrous. In fact, I expected this. They switched from win CE to NT. Did anyone really expect that current wp7 hardware would be compatible?
And even if they could put in the work to deliver the software, what good would it do? The Lumia - or any other wp7 device - has none of the hardware required for the majority of features it brings.
7.8 will give us some goodies and I'll upgrade in a year or two. No big deal.
It also so happens that I am a software engineer as well. I mostly do enterprise level work in ASP MVC, WPF and Silverlight in .NET
We also do some wp7 work. I don't think wp8 screws me over at all. On the contrary. Our existing apps will all continue to work just fine and the future apps we create can have a large chuck of their codebase shared between win8 and wp8 versions. If we even need different versions at all...
This isn't desastrous. This is absolutely brilliant.
It's going to make our job a lot easier and it will provide a superior user experience. What's not to like?
It has been known for a while that WP8 would not run on existing devices, this is just a more public message than before. And the development environment is also changing completely from Silverlight to more standard Windows tools (.net etc.). So, if you have developed for WP7, you have to learn a new language again to develop for WP8, but again this has been known for a while already.
This is simply not true.
It has the same application model as winRT apps on windows 8. These can be written in XAML / C++, C#, VB .NET or in HTML / JS or with pure DirectX api's.
None of these are new languages. This is just good old visual studio with good old expression blend and good old .NET, XAML etc.
Silverlight is just another XAML based language. It also uses C#.
If you know silverlight and c#, you also know how to code in wpf or winRT.
But not all that different to the effect of iOS6 on original iPads.... ...they'll do what they've done and as well as they've done it, and while they've been left in the dust future-wise, they're hardly "useless."
And while PPC was supported for quite awhile, it's now on the dust heap - I can't upgrade many things anymore, but I understand it.
It's different. It's not just that these phones can't be upgraded, the entire platform API has been deprecated. Old iOS devices running iOS 5 can still run apps that target that OS. Most developers target older versions of iOS. New apps being released will still be compatible for some time. WP8 introduces a completely new set of APIs and a new development environment. So the whole platform is being dumped. Moreover, WP7 phones are relatively new and are still being released. The original iPad hasn't been on sale for awhile.
Not being upgradable has not hurt Android handsets at those carriers much, hasn't it?
New Android apps target Android 2.x. Few apps use ICS features because it's not widely available. Who's going to continue releasing apps for Windows Phone 7 when Windows Phone 8 is essentially a new platform?
Comments
yeah, MS just threw Nokia under the bus.
and then they will buy its carcass cheap and finally become their own major OEM, just like ...
you gotta feel bad for the Finns.
So, sorry if this is an ignorant question, but does this mean that WP7 apps will not run at all on WP8 devices? It sounds that way, but it seems like that would be disastrous for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrogusto
So, sorry if this is an ignorant question, but does this mean that WP7 apps will not run at all on WP8 devices? It sounds that way, but it seems like that would be disastrous for them.
WP7 apps will work on WP8 devices.
Sorry No Rockettes, but I do have the "Putting on the Ritz" version
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad
Metro UI was cool when it first came out, but it's wearing out so fast.
I said the same thing about iOS two years ago. The iOS UI has changed zero times and (in my opinion) is the phone with the most dated UI.
I love my iPhone, but am willing to admit when it appears Microsoft really wants to compete by having created something truly different. And now, with the resizable, customizable tiles coming in the Fall, I'm afraid it's truly time for Apple to at LEAST offer some kind of deeper customization on the front end.
I like the e-wallet support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU
I like the e-wallet support.
except it doesn't work anyplace you actually go yet.
e-wallet is never going to happen until the major credit card companies adopt their standardized protocols for it so it can be integrated into all point of sale equipment. they don't seem to be in a hurry.
that's why iOS 6 will add the more modest Passbook app. it will be something you can acutally use now, not vapor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Love it. I knew the memes would quickly follow. We need a whole chorus line of Ballmers on stage a la The Rockettes.
I couldn't resist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26
What impresses me (too much?) is that it uses the same kernel as the other flavors of Windoze. Reportedly, that will allow easier transformation of full fledged programs to tablet and cellphone apps.
Also, there is backwards compatibility for Winphone 7.5, so legacy phone apps will run on the new hardware/software.
The folks who recently bought windows 7 phones seem to have gotten screwed, however, depending on how good Windows 7.8 turns out to be.
At any rate, this is a bold move by M$, and it makes a whole lot of sense to me that they did it this way. It will be ugly for a while, especially for the likes of Nokia. But in the end, I think the overall strategy is sound. Let's see them execute it.
Quote:Originally Posted by Slurpy
Will not support a single current phone on the market. Absolutely brutal. This is how you retain customer loyalty? And Apple gets raked through the coals when a 2+ year old phone doesn't support all the software features of their newest OS update.
I never understood the cliche that is always repeated that Apple loves 'obsoleting' people's devices, when it seems they're the best in the bunch by far with supporting their devices. Don't get me started with Android device support.
WinPhone 7 was always a placeholder and testbed (if the inspiration for the whole Win 8 interface across the line) - and met a need to quit even showing the v6 nightmare until Win 8 without exiting the phone market altogether for years. That's been clear for well over a year or more. Win 8 will likely be as supported upgradeability-wise going forward across all device lines as any version of Windows.
And that's true even if Win 8 - a transition system with various varieties of hiccups and bad compromises - turns out to be the next Vista that's followed by a Win 9 which will last as long as Win 7 - and even the venerable highly-patched XP that's still chugging along on hundreds of millions of machines after a decade.
Further point and other upgrades will be much better handled than Android's managed to date. (Not that that's exactly a high bar to jump over.....)
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke
This is nuclear. Microsoft just deprecated the entire WP7 platform. If you bought a Lumia your phone is now worthless.
But not all that different to the effect of iOS6 on original iPads.... ...they'll do what they've done and as well as they've done it, and while they've been left in the dust future-wise, they're hardly "useless."
And while PPC was supported for quite awhile, it's now on the dust heap - I can't upgrade many things anymore, but I understand it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CogitoDexter
So Microsoft announce another product that won't be available for months. But worse, they announce that none of the current products will be compatible with it. The Windows Phone market is already tiny and struggling. This is just going to stop it in its tracks until October. Who in their right minds would buy a WinPho now?
Does Microsoft have ANY commercial acumen at the top at all?
Commercially, the entire Win Phone 7 base is miniscule - because it HASN'T sold much for whatever reasons - and still isn't exactly burning up the charts. If Win Phone 8 gains any traction - and I believe it will, at least among business users - they'll fairly quickly reach a point where they're selling more phones per quarter than 7 ever sold in total. And the Win Phone 7 users will upgrade at the end of their contracts, so there will be even fewer of them quickly. So since the code has changed so much, this is the best commercial decision (of a bad bunch) they can make. Plus they had to get the news out to the entire infrastructure of partners they're going to have to rely on - even if leaves a gap of some months.
As for current sales, how many phone customers are surfing sites like this and have any notion of the upcoming transition? If a typical purchaser is attracted by the lines and look of a cool blue Lumia, 90% of those are as likely to buy it as they were yesterday. So some impact over the next few months but not that much. And I'm reasonably sure MS plans to shore up (if not purchase) Nokia in the meantime. The company got lost and made strategic missteps, but much of it is still a fundamentally sound company with good chops and skilled employees. And I'm betting they'll make it back to profitability - on the back of Win 8 derived devices (if mostly phones).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAdOwXPR
Wow very impressive win8 desktop/tablet/win8'phone all running on the same core OS. iOS will use the cloud to connect iOS to OSX and windows. But IMHO the synergy Microsoft has could be huge.
The nextgen Xbox should also run the same core OS to finish the cycle...
Tend to agree. MS is bringing Windows to phones, whereas Apple's bringing iOS elements to OS X. And interface prefs aside, Siri still looks like the big differentiator. On the other hand, the intro of the Surface stuff was very underwhelming. Floppy keyboards and kickstands on a device most people will want to work with effortlessly from lap to table to bed, etc.? Kludgy as hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulfoaf
Because nothing says security like "Microsoft."
Already answered below. But I'll add that in fact I've had no security problems on my Win towers at all in the last four years. I still have to run anti-malware, sure, and I open any odd looking emails I want to check on my Macs, but the "security gap" is in practice an old saw that just doesn't cut much any more. Whereas Android is the new frontier of insecurity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAdOwXPR
The truth is Microsoft right now is great on security because they have been battling it for decades. Apple and google are not on part IMHO. I love my Mac but the truth is the truth...
"A is A. A thing is itself."
(I can, but wondering anyone else here is able to and cares to source that quote?)
Ah, they're dancing the Dev-Dev.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Will not support a single current phone on the market. Absolutely brutal. This is how you retain customer loyalty?
There were hardly any customers for WP7.x anyway, loosing 50% of them matters less than possible winning 10% of current Android customers (not that I would make that prediction but MS is essentially doing another reset which might be better for them than keeping the 3% of smartphone purchasers happy that actually bought WP7 devices).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CogitoDexter
So Microsoft announce another product that won't be available for months. But worse, they announce that none of the current products will be compatible with it. The Windows Phone market is already tiny and struggling. This is just going to stop it in its tracks until October. Who in their right minds would buy a WinPho now?
Does Microsoft have ANY commercial acumen at the top at all?
It has been known for a while that WP8 would not run on existing devices, this is just a more public message than before. And the development environment is also changing completely from Silverlight to more standard Windows tools (.net etc.). So, if you have developed for WP7, you have to learn a new language again to develop for WP8, but again this has been known for a while already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke
Nokia got Double Osborned. After seeing the effects of pre-announcing Symbian being deprecated, how are carriers and customers going to feel about Nokia's WP7 line up now they know that it's not upgradeable and the next version of WP has a completely incompatible API? No developers are going to continue working on WP7. This is very bad news for Nokia. They're toast.
Not being upgradable has not hurt Android handsets at those carriers much, hasn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonBrick
I said the same thing about iOS two years ago. The iOS UI has changed zero times and (in my opinion) is the phone with the most dated UI.
I love my iPhone, but am willing to admit when it appears Microsoft really wants to compete by having created something truly different. And now, with the resizable, customizable tiles coming in the Fall, I'm afraid it's truly time for Apple to at LEAST offer some kind of deeper customization on the front end.
Absolutely. Apple had the chance to change UI with iOS 6 but they didn't. Now no matter how many specs they improve or new hardware perks they add in the next gen. iPhone, it will be the same old iOS 6. It feels bit odd to say but iOS is now feeling little boring.
At WWDC 2012, it was hilarious when Forstall mentioned features like Facebook integration, Mail VIP folder & Phone 'reply with message' as one of the major features. Last year it was notification center, twitter integration & reminders. It felt like they were trying to catch up with Android. Come on. Now with WP8, they really need to make substantial changes in UI of iOS. Their static icons UI feels dated.
Why to hold down a home button & ask siri about weather or pull down a notification center to check weather in iOS when one can check the current live weather right on the tile of WP8 home screen. User can also check the weather on live widget on Android ICS home screen.
I have been using iPhone for a long time now but these differences in the functionality show that it's time for Apple to stop calling iOS as world's most advanced mobile operating system.
It's actually pretty funny to see all the msft haters here yelling how disastrous this is for developers and wp7 owners.
I own a Lumia 900. I don't think this is desastrous. In fact, I expected this. They switched from win CE to NT. Did anyone really expect that current wp7 hardware would be compatible?
And even if they could put in the work to deliver the software, what good would it do? The Lumia - or any other wp7 device - has none of the hardware required for the majority of features it brings.
7.8 will give us some goodies and I'll upgrade in a year or two. No big deal.
It also so happens that I am a software engineer as well. I mostly do enterprise level work in ASP MVC, WPF and Silverlight in .NET
We also do some wp7 work. I don't think wp8 screws me over at all. On the contrary. Our existing apps will all continue to work just fine and the future apps we create can have a large chuck of their codebase shared between win8 and wp8 versions. If we even need different versions at all...
This isn't desastrous. This is absolutely brilliant.
It's going to make our job a lot easier and it will provide a superior user experience. What's not to like?
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir
It has been known for a while that WP8 would not run on existing devices, this is just a more public message than before. And the development environment is also changing completely from Silverlight to more standard Windows tools (.net etc.). So, if you have developed for WP7, you have to learn a new language again to develop for WP8, but again this has been known for a while already.
This is simply not true.
It has the same application model as winRT apps on windows 8. These can be written in XAML / C++, C#, VB .NET or in HTML / JS or with pure DirectX api's.
None of these are new languages. This is just good old visual studio with good old expression blend and good old .NET, XAML etc.
Silverlight is just another XAML based language. It also uses C#.
If you know silverlight and c#, you also know how to code in wpf or winRT.
Just like your posts.
Sorry matey, but if it worked on wp7 it will work on wp8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics
But not all that different to the effect of iOS6 on original iPads.... ...they'll do what they've done and as well as they've done it, and while they've been left in the dust future-wise, they're hardly "useless."
And while PPC was supported for quite awhile, it's now on the dust heap - I can't upgrade many things anymore, but I understand it.
It's different. It's not just that these phones can't be upgraded, the entire platform API has been deprecated. Old iOS devices running iOS 5 can still run apps that target that OS. Most developers target older versions of iOS. New apps being released will still be compatible for some time. WP8 introduces a completely new set of APIs and a new development environment. So the whole platform is being dumped. Moreover, WP7 phones are relatively new and are still being released. The original iPad hasn't been on sale for awhile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir
Not being upgradable has not hurt Android handsets at those carriers much, hasn't it?
New Android apps target Android 2.x. Few apps use ICS features because it's not widely available. Who's going to continue releasing apps for Windows Phone 7 when Windows Phone 8 is essentially a new platform?