That's the thing about design patents that always confuses me. Since you make a car analogy, I have a couple examples: A Chrysler 300m looks like Bentley, Hyundai Genesis looks a lot like a Mercedes Benz, Honda NSX looks like a Ferrari. I'd say those are just as similar as the iPad is to the Galaxy. Why don't we see a lot more of these suits?
IANAL so just trying to understand.
DARN IT!!!!
STOP WITH THE FACTS ALREADY! We don't take kindly to those around here.
But i must say, to me the genesis says more Acura than mercedes. Also, see the f430 and mclaren mp4-12
Not to mention that pretty much every post-war car resembled each other.
But even more than that, I still can't tell the difference between two HDTV's, they all look alike (will be interesting to see how Apple can make a non-rectangular, sharp edged TV)
And is it me, or do Ferragamo wingtips look like a copy of Gucci wingtips?
If i was Ferragamo, I would sue the snot out of Gucci. I mean, Ferragamo cannot be the developer of the shoe world. They are all for innovation, but they can not allow competitors to steal their ideas.
To be fair, I do think that the iPad is generally considered the best tablet by most people and for most uses. Some may want something smaller for carrying around, some may feel an affinity for Android or a particular hardware manufacturer, and some tablets are cheaper, but I think most people, if you offered to give them a tablet for free, would choose an iPad without hesitation. So I doubt it would hurt Apple much to claim that Samsung tablets are nothing like Apple tablets, even if I don't entirely agree with the claim.
One of my co-workers got a Samsung tablet last year, and when I asked him why he got it instead of an iPad, he said he just wasn't an Apple fan in general. He couldn't really identify any specific differences. He let me play with it, and it sure seemed a lot like an iPad to me, which I thought was funny given his reason for getting it.
The other thing which confuses me is the Judge's belief that he is supposed to be concerned with "Informed Consumers" only. He says himself that:
He said: "When I first saw the Samsung products in this case I was struck by how similar they look to the Apple design when they are resting on a table.
"They look similar because they both have the same front screen. It stands out.
"However, to the informed user - which at that stage I was not - these screens do not stand out to anything like the same extent.
So if every user gets to be a judge in a trial on the issue, they will get the differences. Is this the way trade dress usually works?
I think you've brought up an important point. Apple, just like Samsung, isn't trying to get "informed users" to buy their products. They want all users to buy their products. I'd argue that the marketing both companies do, suggests that the market is more uninformed users than informed users. I know this is out of context, but if you look at two things and think they look very much the same - then spend weeks "learning" what differences there are, it's not exactly a fair statement to say you now realize they are different, where in the beginning you thought they were the same (or more similar than not).
I agree that Samsung tweaked THIS particular design enough to get away with it. (But didn’t they have an earlier design that WAS a more direct iPad copy?) When Apple “advertises” that, they should also include side-by-sides of all the TRULY blatant copying Samsung has done... http://photos.appleinsidercdn.com/samsungvsapple.081911.jpg
Yep. Samesung so blantanly copies because they are complete idiots who can not think for themselves. How anyone could look at all those pictures and not see the blantant copying Samesung did, is either a fandroid or a Samesung astro-turfer or both.
I'd say just pull iPads from the UK. Maybe the judge can handle illegal imports and an unhappy public instead.
Yeah, cause if the ipad suddenly dissappeared they would be chaos, the streets will run red with blood, mothers will eat their children, fathers will eat their wives, and someone would find the rock to be a good actor.
Only in your world.
People once thought that about the IBM PC, the Sony Walkman, the Atari 2600. All great products that dominated their respective markets and years later just faded away without anyone giving a hoot.
NEVER think your product is irreplaceable, its one of the fundamental rules of business. And trust me, Apple knows this. They will never do something so stupid.
I read the first page... laughed, and then decided to try and explain this. The UK has pretty stringent libel laws. If you make a complaint to a court for the purpose of a lawsuit, and it is decided by the court that your complaint was wrong, then by definition of making the complaint, your statement is considered libelous. Therefore you have to publicly retract the statement.
This probably seems odd, especially to those in the US, however in the UK you cannot simply sue with impunity, lose and continue to assert your complaint. By taking it to court, you're asking a judge to determine if the complaint is true. If they decide no, you're technically making a libelous claim.
Apple's lawyers in the UK would have known and advised of this risk before taking it to court. You win some, you lose some.
Probably the best post I've read. It's a shame so many people on here cannot remove emotion and look at the facts.
According to Bloomberg news the Judge HAS granted Apple leave to appeal so we shall see what happens. I can't see any reason why the High Court would overturn the ruling but let's wait and see.
Yep. Samesung so blantanly copies because they are complete idiots who can not think for themselves. How anyone could look at all those pictures and not see the blantant copying Samesung did, is either a fandroid or a Samesung astro-turfer or both.
Well lets see. Lets ignore software and only talk about physical look as seen in a store, since this is about design.
Differences:
No home button
the camera is placed different
the screen size is diff
its thinner
the OS looks totally diff with all those widgets on the screen
the aspect ratio is diff
diff volume rocker
diff volume rocker placement
diff bezel thickness
it clearly says Samsung on the back
There is a metal strip that comes up on the back that isn't there in the ipad
3.5 mm headphone jack in a diff position
charging port in diff position
silver rim around the edge
Similarities:
Rectangular
Rounded Edges
Black? (Well one is a deeper black but i guess its all in the black family right?)
Yep, overwhelming evidence there.
By the way, where are the pictures of Apple tablets before windows tablets? You know, the newton? Seems to me that it does not resemble the ipad at all
Yeah, cause if the ipad suddenly dissappeared they would be chaos, the streets will run red with blood, mothers will eat their children, fathers will eat their wives,
However, China's customs authorities told Proview that it would be difficult to execute such a ban due to the popularity of Apple's products:
"The customs have told us that it will be difficult to implement a ban because many Chinese consumers love Apple products. The sheer size of the market is very big," Yang Long-san, chief of Proview Technology (Shenzhen), told Reuters in a telephone interview on Wednesday.
Did apple ever claim in media or in print that Samsung copied the iPad?
Why wouldn't they just pay a fine or something if the judge felt they were wrong?
Forcing them to advertise for a competitor is a malicious ruling, plain and simple. I have lost respect for the UK judicial system if this kind of thing is allowed.
It is sad to see that the mafias influence of Samsung in South Korea has spread to the British Legal System as well.
Before you go making anymore disgraceful statements, are you aware that the British libel laws extend to online forums? Any statement made on here can be used in a court case against you. People have been taken to court in the UK for making libellous statements on Twitter, Facebook and online forums like this. And don't think your anonymity is of any use. The court can make the website reveal your identity.
Alternatively the Judge can simply find you in contempt of court for showing disrespect for the Judge and throw you in prison without trial. British Judges have a lot of power.
Mate, your signature is a quote from Margaret Thatcher ffs. You lost all credibility with any rational thinker as soon as you put that on.
Unfortunately, socialists multiply quicker than you can squash 'em. They're worse than cockroaches. At least cockroaches don't try to raise your taxes.
Well lets see. Lets ignore software and only talk about physical look as seen in a store, since this is about design.
Differences:
No home button
the camera is placed different
the screen size is diff
its thinner
the OS looks totally diff with all those widgets on the screen
the aspect ratio is diff
diff volume rocker
diff volume rocker placement
diff bezel thickness
it clearly says Samsung on the back
There is a metal strip that comes up on the back that isn't there in the ipad
3.5 mm headphone jack in a diff position
charging port in diff position
silver rim around the edge
Similarities:
Rectangular
Rounded Edges
Black? (Well one is a deeper black but i guess its all in the black family right?)
Yep, overwhelming evidence there.
By the way, where are the pictures of Apple tablets before windows tablets? You know, the newton? Seems to me that it does not resemble the ipad at all
Agreed, along with an additional statement to the effect of "However, other courts in the United States, Australia and other countries have ruled that the Samsung device was an improper copy."
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarquisMark
That's the thing about design patents that always confuses me. Since you make a car analogy, I have a couple examples: A Chrysler 300m looks like Bentley, Hyundai Genesis looks a lot like a Mercedes Benz, Honda NSX looks like a Ferrari. I'd say those are just as similar as the iPad is to the Galaxy. Why don't we see a lot more of these suits?
IANAL so just trying to understand.
DARN IT!!!!
STOP WITH THE FACTS ALREADY! We don't take kindly to those around here.
But i must say, to me the genesis says more Acura than mercedes. Also, see the f430 and mclaren mp4-12
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01771/McLaren-MP4-12C-1_1771192b.jpg
http://lasvegasnevadaexoticcarrentals.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/ferrari-f430-las-vegas.jpg
Not to mention that pretty much every post-war car resembled each other.
But even more than that, I still can't tell the difference between two HDTV's, they all look alike (will be interesting to see how Apple can make a non-rectangular, sharp edged TV)
And is it me, or do Ferragamo wingtips look like a copy of Gucci wingtips?
If i was Ferragamo, I would sue the snot out of Gucci. I mean, Ferragamo cannot be the developer of the shoe world. They are all for innovation, but they can not allow competitors to steal their ideas.
To be fair, I do think that the iPad is generally considered the best tablet by most people and for most uses. Some may want something smaller for carrying around, some may feel an affinity for Android or a particular hardware manufacturer, and some tablets are cheaper, but I think most people, if you offered to give them a tablet for free, would choose an iPad without hesitation. So I doubt it would hurt Apple much to claim that Samsung tablets are nothing like Apple tablets, even if I don't entirely agree with the claim.
One of my co-workers got a Samsung tablet last year, and when I asked him why he got it instead of an iPad, he said he just wasn't an Apple fan in general. He couldn't really identify any specific differences. He let me play with it, and it sure seemed a lot like an iPad to me, which I thought was funny given his reason for getting it.
A couple of lines in the public notices section of a newspapers classified section would fulfil this request.
"Samsung is not cool enough to copy us."
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
The other thing which confuses me is the Judge's belief that he is supposed to be concerned with "Informed Consumers" only. He says himself that:
He said: "When I first saw the Samsung products in this case I was struck by how similar they look to the Apple design when they are resting on a table.
"They look similar because they both have the same front screen. It stands out.
"However, to the informed user - which at that stage I was not - these screens do not stand out to anything like the same extent.
So if every user gets to be a judge in a trial on the issue, they will get the differences. Is this the way trade dress usually works?
I think you've brought up an important point. Apple, just like Samsung, isn't trying to get "informed users" to buy their products. They want all users to buy their products. I'd argue that the marketing both companies do, suggests that the market is more uninformed users than informed users. I know this is out of context, but if you look at two things and think they look very much the same - then spend weeks "learning" what differences there are, it's not exactly a fair statement to say you now realize they are different, where in the beginning you thought they were the same (or more similar than not).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme
I agree that Samsung tweaked THIS particular design enough to get away with it. (But didn’t they have an earlier design that WAS a more direct iPad copy?) When Apple “advertises” that, they should also include side-by-sides of all the TRULY blatant copying Samsung has done... http://photos.appleinsidercdn.com/samsungvsapple.081911.jpg
http://dcurt.is/chromebox-samsung
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2011/09/29/apple-samsung-copycat-2/
Yep. Samesung so blantanly copies because they are complete idiots who can not think for themselves. How anyone could look at all those pictures and not see the blantant copying Samesung did, is either a fandroid or a Samesung astro-turfer or both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline
I'd say just pull iPads from the UK. Maybe the judge can handle illegal imports and an unhappy public instead.
Yeah, cause if the ipad suddenly dissappeared they would be chaos, the streets will run red with blood, mothers will eat their children, fathers will eat their wives, and someone would find the rock to be a good actor.
Only in your world.
People once thought that about the IBM PC, the Sony Walkman, the Atari 2600. All great products that dominated their respective markets and years later just faded away without anyone giving a hoot.
NEVER think your product is irreplaceable, its one of the fundamental rules of business. And trust me, Apple knows this. They will never do something so stupid.
Whatever... That judge got jokes! Maybe the judge should be ordered to make an apology to Apple for such a ruling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook
I read the first page... laughed, and then decided to try and explain this. The UK has pretty stringent libel laws. If you make a complaint to a court for the purpose of a lawsuit, and it is decided by the court that your complaint was wrong, then by definition of making the complaint, your statement is considered libelous. Therefore you have to publicly retract the statement.
This probably seems odd, especially to those in the US, however in the UK you cannot simply sue with impunity, lose and continue to assert your complaint. By taking it to court, you're asking a judge to determine if the complaint is true. If they decide no, you're technically making a libelous claim.
Apple's lawyers in the UK would have known and advised of this risk before taking it to court. You win some, you lose some.
Probably the best post I've read. It's a shame so many people on here cannot remove emotion and look at the facts.
According to Bloomberg news the Judge HAS granted Apple leave to appeal so we shall see what happens. I can't see any reason why the High Court would overturn the ruling but let's wait and see.
It is sad to see that the mafias influence of Samsung in South Korea has spread to the British Legal System as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead
Yep. Samesung so blantanly copies because they are complete idiots who can not think for themselves. How anyone could look at all those pictures and not see the blantant copying Samesung did, is either a fandroid or a Samesung astro-turfer or both.
Well lets see. Lets ignore software and only talk about physical look as seen in a store, since this is about design.
Differences:
No home button
the camera is placed different
the screen size is diff
its thinner
the OS looks totally diff with all those widgets on the screen
the aspect ratio is diff
diff volume rocker
diff volume rocker placement
diff bezel thickness
it clearly says Samsung on the back
There is a metal strip that comes up on the back that isn't there in the ipad
3.5 mm headphone jack in a diff position
charging port in diff position
silver rim around the edge
Similarities:
Rectangular
Rounded Edges
Black? (Well one is a deeper black but i guess its all in the black family right?)
Yep, overwhelming evidence there.
By the way, where are the pictures of Apple tablets before windows tablets? You know, the newton? Seems to me that it does not resemble the ipad at all
However, it came after tablets such as these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tablet.jpg
Which had rectanglular shapes with rounded edges, minimalist uncluttered front with a screen dominating the front.
So to be fair, don't just look at other products, Apple's products changed as well, and didn't even change first.
Matter of fact, I can't seem to remember any Apple notebooks that had a wedge design before this one
http://www.kitguru.net/apple/carl/macbook-air-2010-a-copy-of-the-vaio-x505/
So why all of a sudden after this one, BOOM, Apple has a wedge? Coincidence maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
Yeah, cause if the ipad suddenly dissappeared they would be chaos, the streets will run red with blood, mothers will eat their children, fathers will eat their wives,
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/01/13/iphone-china.html
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/15/chinese-customs-tells-proview-that-ban-of-ipad-exports-would-be-difficult/
Quote:
However, China's customs authorities told Proview that it would be difficult to execute such a ban due to the popularity of Apple's products:
"The customs have told us that it will be difficult to implement a ban because many Chinese consumers love Apple products. The sheer size of the market is very big," Yang Long-san, chief of Proview Technology (Shenzhen), told Reuters in a telephone interview on Wednesday.
Did apple ever claim in media or in print that Samsung copied the iPad?
Why wouldn't they just pay a fine or something if the judge felt they were wrong?
Forcing them to advertise for a competitor is a malicious ruling, plain and simple. I have lost respect for the UK judicial system if this kind of thing is allowed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtrac
It is sad to see that the mafias influence of Samsung in South Korea has spread to the British Legal System as well.
Before you go making anymore disgraceful statements, are you aware that the British libel laws extend to online forums? Any statement made on here can be used in a court case against you. People have been taken to court in the UK for making libellous statements on Twitter, Facebook and online forums like this. And don't think your anonymity is of any use. The court can make the website reveal your identity.
Alternatively the Judge can simply find you in contempt of court for showing disrespect for the Judge and throw you in prison without trial. British Judges have a lot of power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89
Mate, your signature is a quote from Margaret Thatcher ffs. You lost all credibility with any rational thinker as soon as you put that on.
Unfortunately, socialists multiply quicker than you can squash 'em. They're worse than cockroaches. At least cockroaches don't try to raise your taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3
Well lets see. Lets ignore software and only talk about physical look as seen in a store, since this is about design.
Differences:
No home button
the camera is placed different
the screen size is diff
its thinner
the OS looks totally diff with all those widgets on the screen
the aspect ratio is diff
diff volume rocker
diff volume rocker placement
diff bezel thickness
it clearly says Samsung on the back
There is a metal strip that comes up on the back that isn't there in the ipad
3.5 mm headphone jack in a diff position
charging port in diff position
silver rim around the edge
Similarities:
Rectangular
Rounded Edges
Black? (Well one is a deeper black but i guess its all in the black family right?)
Yep, overwhelming evidence there.
By the way, where are the pictures of Apple tablets before windows tablets? You know, the newton? Seems to me that it does not resemble the ipad at all
However, it came after tablets such as these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tablet.jpg
Which had rectanglular shapes with rounded edges, minimalist uncluttered front with a screen dominating the front.
So to be fair, don't just look at other products, Apple's products changed as well, and didn't even change first.
Matter of fact, I can't seem to remember any Apple notebooks that had a wedge design before this one
http://www.kitguru.net/apple/carl/macbook-air-2010-a-copy-of-the-vaio-x505/
So why all of a sudden after this one, BOOM, Apple has a wedge? Coincidence maybe.
I know you are just regurgitating the Samesung talking points your puppeteers gave you but..one only need look at this...http://photos.appleinsidercdn.com/samsungvsapple.081911.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline
I'd say just pull iPads from the UK. Maybe the judge can handle illegal imports and an unhappy public instead.
Apple has very competitive products. It would be senseless for them to pull them from the UK, despite whatever boneheaded ruling is passed down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
Oh boy. I've got my popcorn ready for this thread.
Me too, I almost dropped my coffee when I read it. This is going to be fun!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Coke didn't invent the bottle yet no one is able to copy the curve design.
It's not about the "square" or "rectangle", it's the fact Sammy mimic'd the iPad in many ways.
Yes but they also had similar designs in their products before the iPad was released. Apple patent for design was nonsense to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff
Agreed, along with an additional statement to the effect of "However, other courts in the United States, Australia and other countries have ruled that the Samsung device was an improper copy."
It was reversed in Australia.....