Discs are not "dead", and it's silly to say they are.
They're as dead as their availability on devices that would have used them in the past. Do you disagree that Apple killed floppy discs? Or that they put an end to SCSI?
When Apple releases a new Mac Pro, you'll be gushing about how forward thinking it is, but if Apple were to EOL the Mac Pro, you would be denigrating everyone here who is critical of Apple's decision.
Yep, you've certainly read zero of my posts about the Mac Pro.
…Apple users will have to deal with it, but a good portion of new Macs will be bought with an external drive that takes up valuable desk space and adds more cords to the rat's nest.
Or they'll just stop using discs… Just like they stopped using floppies. And ADB.
Apple might kill the well established CD/DVD (I wouldn't mind wouldn't all my music and movie library backup copies rely on heavily invested CD/DVD's) - floppy
drives were like USB sticks - data containers without any standardized media format.
Clearly Apple hasn't spend time in Asia, as one of the preferred format for movies still uses MPEG1 on VCDs.
Killit it gives the iTunes store an advantage, by dropping support for all the CD stores. But like the Bluray initiative of Sony and their
foolproof plan to dominate the media sector after buying MGM with its biggest film library it might be heavier to chew
as predicted.
It might be a tad too early as iTunes Extra isn't available on my accessories and isn't the industry standard for USB stored movies
to handle chapters and extras yet. It's not just a shiny cheap resource - it is, so far, the only available physical media format.
iLife created output today is being rendered into a big question mark - just having dropped iDVD didn't solve the problem. But don't get me
started into discussing the castrated iLife :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
They're as dead as their availability on devices that would have used them in the past. Do you disagree that Apple killed floppy discs? Or that they put an end to SCSI?
Yep, you've certainly read zero of my posts about the Mac Pro.
Or they'll just stop using discs… Just like they stopped using floppies. And ADB.
You seem to think that Apple waves a magic wand and the universe obeys. Ummm...no.
All the people using optical discs for movies or video don't care what Apple does or does not include on their hardware. Those who have a decade or more of data archived on DVD are not going to convert their entire backup scheme because Apple changed hardware configurations. The world doesn't work the way you seem to believe.
As for floppy discs, the idea that Apple "killed" them is absurd. Their marketshare in the late 90s was miniscule. Floppy discs were supersceded by newer media formats. Software companies distributed their goods on CD ROMs. Files grew too large for floppies and thus people quit using them. These changes happen incrementally due to myriad causes, you cannot cherry pick one factor and say "that's what killed floppies".
Discs are not "dead", and it's silly to say they are.
I think you're just saying no one uses optical drives because Apple is phasing them out. You pretty much recite whatever is in Apple's latest marketing copy. When Apple releases a new Mac Pro, you'll be gushing about how forward thinking it is, but if Apple were to EOL the Mac Pro, you would be denigrating everyone here who is critical of Apple's decision.
Out in the real world, DVDs and Blu-ray are widely used. Are they on their way out? Absolutely. But there is nothing that replaces them when it comes to cheaply distributing high quality video. If Apple decides to ditch optical drives then Apple users will have to deal with it, but a good portion of new Macs will be bought with an external drive that takes up valuable desk space and adds more cords to the rat's nest. This is nothing at all like when floppy drives were ditched, at that time there simply wasn't any compelling reason to use floppy discs, and software was being distributed on optical discs. At this time, in the real world, movies and video are still distributed on optical discs.
A sensible post at last.
Optical will eventually go away of course, but it has many years of life yet. I bet BDs will still be on sale in a decade or more, and it will be the same for DVDs and CDs. Until high speed broadband is ubiquitous, online movie rental costs drop to something sane, and online movie purchasing goes DRM free, discs will persist and thrive.
Optical will eventually go away of course, but it has many years of life yet. I bet BDs will still be on sale in a decade or more, and it will be the same for DVDs and CDs. Until high speed broadband is ubiquitous, online movie rental costs drop to something sane, and online movie purchasing goes DRM free, discs will persist and thrive.
As a dev, I havent used an optical drive in 5 years. I'll survive with out them now.
You seem to think that Apple waves a magic wand and the universe obeys. Ummm...no.
All the people using optical discs for movies or video don't care what Apple does or does not include on their hardware. Those who have a decade or more of data archived on DVD are not going to convert their entire backup scheme because Apple changed hardware configurations. The world doesn't work the way you seem to believe.
As for floppy discs, the idea that Apple "killed" them is absurd. Their marketshare in the late 90s was miniscule. Floppy discs were supersceded by newer media formats. Software companies distributed their goods on CD ROMs. Files grew too large for floppies and thus people quit using them. These changes happen incrementally due to myriad causes, you cannot cherry pick one factor and say "that's what killed floppies".
What happens is Apple does what it needs to and youre either along for the ride or your not. If you want to use dated technology, that's fine and all but don't expect Apple to continue supporting it.
On the subject of optical drives, this discussion always ends up going goes down the lines of whether Apple should be dictating what people should use.
Apple doesn't ship a USB pen, printer, scanner, backup drive etc with every computer because they realise that not everyone will need them. That is now the case with optical drives.
They aren't saying stop using optical drives, they are just saying they are no longer an essential component of a computer.
Apple would never ship an affordable Blu-Ray drive with their machines, they'd be 2-4x slot drives costing $199-299. You can buy a 3rd party 12x USB 3 or portable 6x Blu-Ray drive from Amazon for under $140. If it breaks, you get a new one; if a faster model or newer standard arrives, you upgrade; if you have more than one machine, you share it between them.
As an added bonus, Apple will take $100 off machines they remove the optical from. Just look at how much you get with the Retina MBP vs the standard one:
IPS high-res display (BTO $100 for just slightly higher res), extra 4GB RAM (BTO $100), 256GB SSD (BTO $500). They only charge $400 for these extras while removing the optical so it obviously contributes a signifcant saving.
With the iMac, I think the saving from removing the optical will go towards either shipping with SSD or dropping the 21.5" from the lineup and bringing a 27" model out at $1299.
With the iMac, I think the saving from removing the optical will go towards either shipping with SSD or dropping the 21.5" from the lineup and bringing a 27" model out at $1299.
As someone who has been using my university's 27in iMacs for the past 4 years and has been very spoiled by that, I hope it's the later. I would love a cheaper 27in monitor. They're just SO PRETTY.
With the iMac, I think the saving from removing the optical will go towards either shipping with SSD or dropping the 21.5" from the lineup and bringing a 27" model out at $1299.
… You're getting my hopes up. Nothing good ever comes from getting my hopes up.
No way would they drop the 21.5", though. Not by a long shot. The 27" is too big for some people, and will always be, as long as the screen is vertical. Apple needs a smaller model. (… "Did Skil just say that Apple needs a smaller model of something?" "Did he just admit to a potential use case for a 7.85" iPad?"…) No, by the way.
So that means what, the 21.5" could drop to $999?! Talk about Cook coming through on his promise to push Mac marketshare…
Or maybe the prices stay the same and they both get retina displays…
As a dev, I havent used an optical drive in 5 years. I'll survive with out them now.
I've been a dev for 20 years, and I use my optical drive at least once a week, usually to rip DVDs to stream to my Roku. I rip CDs too from time to time, and stick photos on CDs to give to relatives who don't have fast connections.
What I don't get, and I'm not directing this specifically at you, but at optical haters in general, why do you object having optical in a desktop? The size of a desktop is irrelevant, and I see no advantage in losing functionality which still has a utility to many people. Why damage a product for no gain? It seems ideological with some people, which is never a good thing. Products should be driven by evidence and research at all times.
As someone who has been using my university's 27in iMacs for the past 4 years and has been very spoiled by that, I hope it's the later. I would love a cheaper 27in monitor. They're just SO PRETTY.
They're impressive but also rather too large for home use. I'd like to see the 24" iMac come back. That seems like the ideal size to me.
I suspect iTunes will do HEVC as soon as Apple has hardware support in "I" devices. This might be possible in September.
As to bandwidth I suspect Apple will use the bandwidth to increase quality where it can. Most of the video on iTunes is wanting and I'd love to see an effort put into quality. Of course Apple doesn't have the last say there.
"… Glossy. Won't buy. Health hazard. Worse than cancer. {{link to petition}}…"
Yeah, people will bring that up again but if they laminate the glass, it should have the same effect as the rMBP. There's a massive reduction in glare to the point that it shouldn't be an issue any more.
IMO, the first image shows they've got the best of both. The old-style displays on the left were like mirrors and you can't see a thing in certain conditions. On the right, the anti-glare shows all the content ok but it's faded. In the middle image, you can see the content in vibrant colours with small amounts of distracting glare.
In normal conditions, eliminating glare should at least be a lot easier. Hopefully they will allow running the display at 1080p too using scaling to bring text sizes up a bit.
Comments
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg
Discs are not "dead", and it's silly to say they are.
They're as dead as their availability on devices that would have used them in the past. Do you disagree that Apple killed floppy discs? Or that they put an end to SCSI?
When Apple releases a new Mac Pro, you'll be gushing about how forward thinking it is, but if Apple were to EOL the Mac Pro, you would be denigrating everyone here who is critical of Apple's decision.
Yep, you've certainly read zero of my posts about the Mac Pro.
…Apple users will have to deal with it, but a good portion of new Macs will be bought with an external drive that takes up valuable desk space and adds more cords to the rat's nest.
Or they'll just stop using discs… Just like they stopped using floppies. And ADB.
The iMac still is the common family computer.
Apple might kill the well established CD/DVD (I wouldn't mind wouldn't all my music and movie library backup copies rely on heavily invested CD/DVD's) - floppy
drives were like USB sticks - data containers without any standardized media format.
Clearly Apple hasn't spend time in Asia, as one of the preferred format for movies still uses MPEG1 on VCDs.
Killit it gives the iTunes store an advantage, by dropping support for all the CD stores. But like the Bluray initiative of Sony and their
foolproof plan to dominate the media sector after buying MGM with its biggest film library it might be heavier to chew
as predicted.
It might be a tad too early as iTunes Extra isn't available on my accessories and isn't the industry standard for USB stored movies
to handle chapters and extras yet. It's not just a shiny cheap resource - it is, so far, the only available physical media format.
iLife created output today is being rendered into a big question mark - just having dropped iDVD didn't solve the problem. But don't get me
started into discussing the castrated iLife :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
They're as dead as their availability on devices that would have used them in the past. Do you disagree that Apple killed floppy discs? Or that they put an end to SCSI?
Yep, you've certainly read zero of my posts about the Mac Pro.
Or they'll just stop using discs… Just like they stopped using floppies. And ADB.
You seem to think that Apple waves a magic wand and the universe obeys. Ummm...no.
All the people using optical discs for movies or video don't care what Apple does or does not include on their hardware. Those who have a decade or more of data archived on DVD are not going to convert their entire backup scheme because Apple changed hardware configurations. The world doesn't work the way you seem to believe.
As for floppy discs, the idea that Apple "killed" them is absurd. Their marketshare in the late 90s was miniscule. Floppy discs were supersceded by newer media formats. Software companies distributed their goods on CD ROMs. Files grew too large for floppies and thus people quit using them. These changes happen incrementally due to myriad causes, you cannot cherry pick one factor and say "that's what killed floppies".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg
Discs are not "dead", and it's silly to say they are.
I think you're just saying no one uses optical drives because Apple is phasing them out. You pretty much recite whatever is in Apple's latest marketing copy. When Apple releases a new Mac Pro, you'll be gushing about how forward thinking it is, but if Apple were to EOL the Mac Pro, you would be denigrating everyone here who is critical of Apple's decision.
Out in the real world, DVDs and Blu-ray are widely used. Are they on their way out? Absolutely. But there is nothing that replaces them when it comes to cheaply distributing high quality video. If Apple decides to ditch optical drives then Apple users will have to deal with it, but a good portion of new Macs will be bought with an external drive that takes up valuable desk space and adds more cords to the rat's nest. This is nothing at all like when floppy drives were ditched, at that time there simply wasn't any compelling reason to use floppy discs, and software was being distributed on optical discs. At this time, in the real world, movies and video are still distributed on optical discs.
A sensible post at last.
Optical will eventually go away of course, but it has many years of life yet. I bet BDs will still be on sale in a decade or more, and it will be the same for DVDs and CDs. Until high speed broadband is ubiquitous, online movie rental costs drop to something sane, and online movie purchasing goes DRM free, discs will persist and thrive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu
A sensible post at last.
Optical will eventually go away of course, but it has many years of life yet. I bet BDs will still be on sale in a decade or more, and it will be the same for DVDs and CDs. Until high speed broadband is ubiquitous, online movie rental costs drop to something sane, and online movie purchasing goes DRM free, discs will persist and thrive.
As a dev, I havent used an optical drive in 5 years. I'll survive with out them now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg
You seem to think that Apple waves a magic wand and the universe obeys. Ummm...no.
All the people using optical discs for movies or video don't care what Apple does or does not include on their hardware. Those who have a decade or more of data archived on DVD are not going to convert their entire backup scheme because Apple changed hardware configurations. The world doesn't work the way you seem to believe.
As for floppy discs, the idea that Apple "killed" them is absurd. Their marketshare in the late 90s was miniscule. Floppy discs were supersceded by newer media formats. Software companies distributed their goods on CD ROMs. Files grew too large for floppies and thus people quit using them. These changes happen incrementally due to myriad causes, you cannot cherry pick one factor and say "that's what killed floppies".
What happens is Apple does what it needs to and youre either along for the ride or your not. If you want to use dated technology, that's fine and all but don't expect Apple to continue supporting it.
Whoa, whoa whoa.
Hey AppleInsider - can you guys post a bigger image of the mockup of this alleged new iMac?
It looks pretty rad and I'd like to see it bigger . . .
Originally Posted by cinder
Whoa, whoa whoa.
Hey AppleInsider - can you guys post a bigger image of the mockup of this alleged new iMac?
It looks pretty rad and I'd like to see it bigger . . .
Which image? I don't see one in the story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Which image? I don't see one in the story.
This one:
Originally Posted by pinkunicorn
This one:
Oh! No idea. I tried to find it, but the bot's images don't go into a folder like everyone's used to. Maybe one of the higher-ups can post it.
The member iPeg posted it on the previous page. The website that has high res images is the following:
http://pascaleggert.de/iMacPro.html
On the subject of optical drives, this discussion always ends up going goes down the lines of whether Apple should be dictating what people should use.
Apple doesn't ship a USB pen, printer, scanner, backup drive etc with every computer because they realise that not everyone will need them. That is now the case with optical drives.
They aren't saying stop using optical drives, they are just saying they are no longer an essential component of a computer.
Apple would never ship an affordable Blu-Ray drive with their machines, they'd be 2-4x slot drives costing $199-299. You can buy a 3rd party 12x USB 3 or portable 6x Blu-Ray drive from Amazon for under $140. If it breaks, you get a new one; if a faster model or newer standard arrives, you upgrade; if you have more than one machine, you share it between them.
As an added bonus, Apple will take $100 off machines they remove the optical from. Just look at how much you get with the Retina MBP vs the standard one:
IPS high-res display (BTO $100 for just slightly higher res), extra 4GB RAM (BTO $100), 256GB SSD (BTO $500). They only charge $400 for these extras while removing the optical so it obviously contributes a signifcant saving.
With the iMac, I think the saving from removing the optical will go towards either shipping with SSD or dropping the 21.5" from the lineup and bringing a 27" model out at $1299.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
With the iMac, I think the saving from removing the optical will go towards either shipping with SSD or dropping the 21.5" from the lineup and bringing a 27" model out at $1299.
As someone who has been using my university's 27in iMacs for the past 4 years and has been very spoiled by that, I hope it's the later. I would love a cheaper 27in monitor. They're just SO PRETTY.
Originally Posted by Marvin
With the iMac, I think the saving from removing the optical will go towards either shipping with SSD or dropping the 21.5" from the lineup and bringing a 27" model out at $1299.
… You're getting my hopes up. Nothing good ever comes from getting my hopes up.
No way would they drop the 21.5", though. Not by a long shot. The 27" is too big for some people, and will always be, as long as the screen is vertical. Apple needs a smaller model. (… "Did Skil just say that Apple needs a smaller model of something?" "Did he just admit to a potential use case for a 7.85" iPad?"…) No, by the way.
So that means what, the 21.5" could drop to $999?! Talk about Cook coming through on his promise to push Mac marketshare…
Or maybe the prices stay the same and they both get retina displays…
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU
As a dev, I havent used an optical drive in 5 years. I'll survive with out them now.
I've been a dev for 20 years, and I use my optical drive at least once a week, usually to rip DVDs to stream to my Roku. I rip CDs too from time to time, and stick photos on CDs to give to relatives who don't have fast connections.
What I don't get, and I'm not directing this specifically at you, but at optical haters in general, why do you object having optical in a desktop? The size of a desktop is irrelevant, and I see no advantage in losing functionality which still has a utility to many people. Why damage a product for no gain? It seems ideological with some people, which is never a good thing. Products should be driven by evidence and research at all times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkunicorn
As someone who has been using my university's 27in iMacs for the past 4 years and has been very spoiled by that, I hope it's the later. I would love a cheaper 27in monitor. They're just SO PRETTY.
They're impressive but also rather too large for home use. I'd like to see the 24" iMac come back. That seems like the ideal size to me.
HEVC HAS BEEN FINALIZED. ALL ARGUMENTS ABOUT BANDWIDTH AND FILE SIZES ARE NOW NULL AND VOID.
I'm busting, Jerry, I'm busting! I cannot WAIT for HandBrake and iTunes to support this!
Who thinks that iTunes will do HEVC come September?!
As to bandwidth I suspect Apple will use the bandwidth to increase quality where it can. Most of the video on iTunes is wanting and I'd love to see an effort put into quality. Of course Apple doesn't have the last say there.
More likely $1099 - there's a $200 difference between 21.5" and 27" with the same internals.
It might be too expensive but they would be the best desktop displays anyone had at that price.
Originally Posted by Marvin
It might be too expensive but they would be the best desktop displays anyone had at that price.
"… Glossy. Won't buy. Health hazard. Worse than cancer. {{link to petition}}…"
Yeah, people will bring that up again but if they laminate the glass, it should have the same effect as the rMBP. There's a massive reduction in glare to the point that it shouldn't be an issue any more.
http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index/6023?cPage=2&all=False&sort=0&page=4&slug=the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review
IMO, the first image shows they've got the best of both. The old-style displays on the left were like mirrors and you can't see a thing in certain conditions. On the right, the anti-glare shows all the content ok but it's faded. In the middle image, you can see the content in vibrant colours with small amounts of distracting glare.
In normal conditions, eliminating glare should at least be a lot easier. Hopefully they will allow running the display at 1080p too using scaling to bring text sizes up a bit.