And think of the future he proposes: scratch a disc at all, lose a terabyte of data.
Not to mention the requirement to burn a full disc at once to get the value out of it, the slow burn times and possibility of failure. Even at the fastest DL speeds (8x), a 50GB Blu-Ray disc will take over 30 minutes to burn and 30 minutes to verify and you'd be lucky to get discs and a burner that runs at 8x. Any failure can be detected during that hour of burn time.
Meanwhile a HDD takes 15 minutes to copy 50GB and an SSD can take as little as 2 minutes.
For cases like video authoring and distribution, optical makes sense and that was the original intention for it - it used to be bundled with the iMac DV machine for iMovie authoring.
For home users, authoring online is more convenient now. Not necessarily Youtube but Kodak, Flickr, Facebook etc.
For personal data backups, HDDs and SSDs are much less frustrating and much faster.
For everything else, external drives are better because you can buy upgrades as new drives become available. If Apple shipped a Blu-Ray drive with the iMac, it would be 4x slot loading and cost $200-300 if you're lucky. You can get a USB 3 12x burner on Amazon for $140.
I could understand it if they remove the DvD from the imac's, but since the MacPro is a tower I think it should keep the drive.
The 5.25" bay takes up a lot of space and adds to the internal cabling mess. External optical drives are the better option as Apple isn't adding costs to users who don't need them. I think people would be happier the Mac Pro drops in price by at least $100.
There will be those who'll argue that 'optical drives' are obsolete etc., but to remove them from desktop systems (where there's very little concern for saving a few millimenters that they take up) would be a questionable move as I know many (especially college students) who still watch (RedBox) DVDs etc on their iMacs.
We'll See if they decide to keep them or not...
I agree I use both the DVD player and burner on my desk top Mac. Further, I use the CD player. I think the move would be bad unless Apple offered an updated current model.
The 5.25" bay takes up a lot of space and adds to the internal cabling mess. External optical drives are the better option as Apple isn't adding costs to users who don't need them. I think people would be happier the Mac Pro drops in price by at least $100.
Internal cabling mess? I haven't looked inside a Mac Pro for a few months, but as I recall, "Mac Pro" and "cabling mess" are contradictory terms. I also don't think $100 matters a bit to someone buying a Mac Pro. On the other hand, as long as you can tuck your own into the case, it hardly matters.
But, although I don't use the optical drive on my iMac that often, I'd prefer that it be there for my occasional use, even with the extra cost, than to have to hook up an external drive. The whole point of the iMac is not to have to have cables running all over the place.
And, I don't really think the optical drive is at all analogous to the floppy drive. Floppy drives were small, files were getting larger, to the point where the floppy drive was becoming somewhat useless. Optical disks can still hold a significant amount of data, even by today's standards, and, unlike floppy disks, they have uses that go beyond personal data storage. While it makes sense to remove them from laptops, for weight and battery considerations, I think there are still quite a few years ahead where a good number of people will want to pop an optical disk into their computers to rip or watch it, and they'd be happier not having it as an external device.
If it could be made a BTO option, that would be fine, but I think the optical drive, as a desirable internal device for desktop systems, still has about 5 years of life left in it.
I agree I use both the DVD player and burner on my desk top Mac. Further, I use the CD player. I think the move would be bad unless Apple offered an updated current model.
I am dine if they keep it in the desktop Macs because space isn't an issue but note they already made this move last year with the Mac mini. That is the proverbial shot across your bow.
But, although I don't use the optical drive on my iMac that often, I'd prefer that it be there for my occasional use, even with the extra cost, than to have to hook up an external drive. The whole point of the iMac is not to have to have cables running all over the place.
I would rather have a SSD + HDD vs HDD/SSD + Optical. In fact I've bought the spacers to make that conversion on my mini.
It is more problematic to do such a retrofit on an iMac. If it came with a SSD + HDD BTO option (or stock) that would be MUCH better.
I'm also hoping for the 21.5" model to be replaced by a 23-24" model.
I am [f]ine if they keep it in the desktop Macs because space isn't an issue but note they already made this move last year with the Mac mini. That is the proverbial shot across your bow.
Although the optical drive might still be useful for another 5 years as anonymous mentioned, that would be 5 years for a normal market transition. Perhaps Apple is trying to hasten the demise of the format by forcing Mac desktop users, and by inference, the rest of the industry to bail on it. That would actually benefit Apple because it would increase iTunes movie and music downloads since there would be no reason to buy a CD or DVD at Best Buy if you couldn't play it.
1 more point in the optical drive debate: in 2-5 years, everyone will be storing all their files on cloud storage anyway. It's already happening. We will use external drives for data back up files, the internal drive for applications, and the cloud for large files.
1 more point in the optical drive debate: in 2-5 years, everyone will be storing all their files on cloud storage anyway. It's already happening. We will use external drives for data back up files, the internal drive for applications, and the cloud for large files.
I don't trust the cloud, especially Apple's. My large files, such as archives going back 12 years or so are backed up at least 4 different places one of which is my own data center based server.
Reading, it has for years, writing, Final Cut can make even player-watchable movies (and I think the OS does data discs), playback, nope. Not natively, at least.
{reference to other pointless, old, discontinued tech that absolutely no one uses anymore in the same format as my first quote}
Please list qualified sources that "absolutely nobody" uses cd drives anymore - or are you just talking out of your ass again and trolling everyones posts?
So you don't like clutter but you like a much slower, noisier, power hungry method for backups used by a very small fraction of consumers? You're saying you want Apple to keep a certain aesthetics for your specific needs because you don't want to use a modern backup system. Sure, there are couple reasons why one would want to backup to optical media instead of magnetic media but that is not a consumer concern, not by a long shot.
Apple has already killed the ability to backup to optical media in iTunes. Which is the right move. If someone told me that a Macbook Air would be my primary computer I would have told them they were nuts. With 8gb of Ram and 256gb of storage it's awesome. The next dinosaur Apple next to kill is the 5400rpm drives. It bugs the hell out of me that a Macbook Pro comes standard with a 5400rpm drive.
Compromising a desktop to save a few millimetres is beyond insane, but then again, Apple hasn't been firing on all cylinders for some years now.
If they take hard drive out, and go SSD only (with no option for an internal HD at all), then they really will have lost what little remained of their sanity.
Now I'll wait for the apologists who will say "well just buy an external HD and DVD burner, because that's just what will really make an all in one system look complete.
Guess that makes sense. Terrible hardware in a terrible package.
When it comes to peripherals they don't want to support, Apple puts out some terrible hardware. You shouldn't just bet on their external dvd drive being any better than the newegg one when there is a good chance it's made by the same company. Note some of the display dongles, the Apple Raid card, etc. Anytime it's not considered a mainstream item, they don't care. Check the reviews or read the comments on the Apple Store if you don't believe me.
I decided to look up that one specifically for a link. It actually seems to be better reviewed than I remember, although that is a surprise. Peripherals like this are one of those awkward things that typically get ignored.
Comments
Not to mention the requirement to burn a full disc at once to get the value out of it, the slow burn times and possibility of failure. Even at the fastest DL speeds (8x), a 50GB Blu-Ray disc will take over 30 minutes to burn and 30 minutes to verify and you'd be lucky to get discs and a burner that runs at 8x. Any failure can be detected during that hour of burn time.
Meanwhile a HDD takes 15 minutes to copy 50GB and an SSD can take as little as 2 minutes.
For cases like video authoring and distribution, optical makes sense and that was the original intention for it - it used to be bundled with the iMac DV machine for iMovie authoring.
For home users, authoring online is more convenient now. Not necessarily Youtube but Kodak, Flickr, Facebook etc.
For personal data backups, HDDs and SSDs are much less frustrating and much faster.
For everything else, external drives are better because you can buy upgrades as new drives become available. If Apple shipped a Blu-Ray drive with the iMac, it would be 4x slot loading and cost $200-300 if you're lucky. You can get a USB 3 12x burner on Amazon for $140.
He was also a member of the Bu-Ray board:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/03/10Blu-ray-Disc-Association-Welcomes-Apple-to-Its-Board-of-Directors.html
but if it's not a viable option, none of that matters. Times change and consumer habits change.
The 5.25" bay takes up a lot of space and adds to the internal cabling mess. External optical drives are the better option as Apple isn't adding costs to users who don't need them. I think people would be happier the Mac Pro drops in price by at least $100.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
There will be those who'll argue that 'optical drives' are obsolete etc., but to remove them from desktop systems (where there's very little concern for saving a few millimenters that they take up) would be a questionable move as I know many (especially college students) who still watch (RedBox) DVDs etc on their iMacs.
We'll See if they decide to keep them or not...
I agree I use both the DVD player and burner on my desk top Mac. Further, I use the CD player. I think the move would be bad unless Apple offered an updated current model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
The 5.25" bay takes up a lot of space and adds to the internal cabling mess. External optical drives are the better option as Apple isn't adding costs to users who don't need them. I think people would be happier the Mac Pro drops in price by at least $100.
Internal cabling mess? I haven't looked inside a Mac Pro for a few months, but as I recall, "Mac Pro" and "cabling mess" are contradictory terms. I also don't think $100 matters a bit to someone buying a Mac Pro. On the other hand, as long as you can tuck your own into the case, it hardly matters.
But, although I don't use the optical drive on my iMac that often, I'd prefer that it be there for my occasional use, even with the extra cost, than to have to hook up an external drive. The whole point of the iMac is not to have to have cables running all over the place.
And, I don't really think the optical drive is at all analogous to the floppy drive. Floppy drives were small, files were getting larger, to the point where the floppy drive was becoming somewhat useless. Optical disks can still hold a significant amount of data, even by today's standards, and, unlike floppy disks, they have uses that go beyond personal data storage. While it makes sense to remove them from laptops, for weight and battery considerations, I think there are still quite a few years ahead where a good number of people will want to pop an optical disk into their computers to rip or watch it, and they'd be happier not having it as an external device.
If it could be made a BTO option, that would be fine, but I think the optical drive, as a desirable internal device for desktop systems, still has about 5 years of life left in it.
Exactly. I couldn't get that slow dinosaur of a superdrive out of my Mac pro fast enough. Waste of space.
I am dine if they keep it in the desktop Macs because space isn't an issue but note they already made this move last year with the Mac mini. That is the proverbial shot across your bow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Except a Pixar movie. ????
Kung Fu Panda 2 > Cars 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
But, although I don't use the optical drive on my iMac that often, I'd prefer that it be there for my occasional use, even with the extra cost, than to have to hook up an external drive. The whole point of the iMac is not to have to have cables running all over the place.
I would rather have a SSD + HDD vs HDD/SSD + Optical. In fact I've bought the spacers to make that conversion on my mini.
It is more problematic to do such a retrofit on an iMac. If it came with a SSD + HDD BTO option (or stock) that would be MUCH better.
I'm also hoping for the 21.5" model to be replaced by a 23-24" model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I am [f]ine if they keep it in the desktop Macs because space isn't an issue but note they already made this move last year with the Mac mini. That is the proverbial shot across your bow.
Although the optical drive might still be useful for another 5 years as anonymous mentioned, that would be 5 years for a normal market transition. Perhaps Apple is trying to hasten the demise of the format by forcing Mac desktop users, and by inference, the rest of the industry to bail on it. That would actually benefit Apple because it would increase iTunes movie and music downloads since there would be no reason to buy a CD or DVD at Best Buy if you couldn't play it.
deleted
1 more point in the optical drive debate: in 2-5 years, everyone will be storing all their files on cloud storage anyway. It's already happening. We will use external drives for data back up files, the internal drive for applications, and the cloud for large files.
When I get one of these new iMacs. I'm also going to get an external BluRay drive, and a 12 South backpack to hide it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkunicorn
1 more point in the optical drive debate: in 2-5 years, everyone will be storing all their files on cloud storage anyway. It's already happening. We will use external drives for data back up files, the internal drive for applications, and the cloud for large files.
I don't trust the cloud, especially Apple's. My large files, such as archives going back 12 years or so are backed up at least 4 different places one of which is my own data center based server.
Originally Posted by MacRulez
And for that, I don't pay $79 to Apple; I pay half that to NewEgg.
Guess that makes sense. Terrible hardware in a terrible package.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MessagePad2100
When I get one of these new iMacs. I'm also going to get an external BluRay drive, and a 12 South backpack to hide it.
Does OS X support BlueRay now?
Originally Posted by mstone
Does OS X support BlueRay now?
Reading, it has for years, writing, Final Cut can make even player-watchable movies (and I think the OS does data discs), playback, nope. Not natively, at least.
Please list qualified sources that "absolutely nobody" uses cd drives anymore - or are you just talking out of your ass again and trolling everyones posts?
Originally Posted by rain
Please list qualified sources that "absolutely nobody" uses cd drives anymore…
Didn't say that. Please pay attention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
So you don't like clutter but you like a much slower, noisier, power hungry method for backups used by a very small fraction of consumers? You're saying you want Apple to keep a certain aesthetics for your specific needs because you don't want to use a modern backup system. Sure, there are couple reasons why one would want to backup to optical media instead of magnetic media but that is not a consumer concern, not by a long shot.
Apple has already killed the ability to backup to optical media in iTunes. Which is the right move. If someone told me that a Macbook Air would be my primary computer I would have told them they were nuts. With 8gb of Ram and 256gb of storage it's awesome. The next dinosaur Apple next to kill is the 5400rpm drives. It bugs the hell out of me that a Macbook Pro comes standard with a 5400rpm drive.
Compromising a desktop to save a few millimetres is beyond insane, but then again, Apple hasn't been firing on all cylinders for some years now.
If they take hard drive out, and go SSD only (with no option for an internal HD at all), then they really will have lost what little remained of their sanity.
Now I'll wait for the apologists who will say "well just buy an external HD and DVD burner, because that's just what will really make an all in one system look complete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Guess that makes sense. Terrible hardware in a terrible package.
When it comes to peripherals they don't want to support, Apple puts out some terrible hardware. You shouldn't just bet on their external dvd drive being any better than the newegg one when there is a good chance it's made by the same company. Note some of the display dongles, the Apple Raid card, etc. Anytime it's not considered a mainstream item, they don't care. Check the reviews or read the comments on the Apple Store if you don't believe me.
I decided to look up that one specifically for a link. It actually seems to be better reviewed than I remember, although that is a surprise. Peripherals like this are one of those awkward things that typically get ignored.
http://store.apple.com/us/reviews/MD564ZM/A