Apple to seek $3 billion in damages from Samsung - report

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  • Reply 21 of 118
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    My sense is this amount would include the punitive damages for intentional infringement which the jury concluded, not actual damages. The jury explicitly determined that Apple's initial damages request was not supported by the evidence during trial, and the court is therefore unlikely to disagree on this point by increasing the amount of actual damages.

    You don't have any idea what you're talking about. There are no punitive damages in a case like this.

    The reason the jury did not award Apple's request had nothing to do with degree of guilt. They basically agreed with Apple on most of the infringement (with the bizarre exception of the Tab). The difference was that they accepted Samsung's expert's opinion on the damages per device. I believe that this was erroneous and due to a lack of understanding of economics. While it is true that Samsung's NET margin was only 20% (or whatever it was), Apple wanted to use the GROSS margin - which is much higher. Apple's argument is actually stronger because of the principle of contribution margin. Contribution margin is much closer to the gross figure than the net figure. By using the net figure, even taking away 100% of Samsung's profits from infringing devices leaves Samsung materially better off than they would have been if they hadn't infringed.

    Triple damages can be awarded when the jury finds the infringement to be willful - as they did in this case.
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  • Reply 22 of 118

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post



    That is 30% of Samsung's total cash. It's gonna be a world of hurt




    I thought Samsung Electronics is sitting on a $25+B cash pile.

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  • Reply 23 of 118


    No, they should create some sort of educational endowment or scholarship fund. Show that it wasn't just about the money. Would help their image. Maybe kick in 3 Bil of their own cash too. 


     


    Heck start teaching Object C in grade schools. :-)

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  • Reply 24 of 118
    Apple just doesn't like competition...especially when it's a chance the competition can beat you. I don't see Coca Cola suing Pepsi...smh. This is horrible. Hopefully HTC Will get that injunction on iphone. What they're trying to do is demolish Samsung.Because Samsung is the leading manufacturer for Android. It's strange because when the first iphone came out and the first Android device, all these patents and stuff didn't matter. The reason, well because the iphone was the best device around, hands down. But now that Android than developed more and continues to mature and devices are coming out more powerful than ever and doing things the iphone doesn't, now Apple wants to go sue crazy.

    And now look Apple has stolen some of the features from android...pulldown notification bar, reject call with text, fly in feature and many more. And I'll say this again, When talking about features, Apple give it's customers little by little...just enough to keep them interested. Then when the next iphone comes out they'll give a little more.It's like they string people along and people bite. Case in point, a bigger screen. How long have people been wanting this? Now 2 years later, it's implemented. NFC...people have been asking for this. Why isn't it included in the iP5? Well because it's gonna be Apple's main feature of the next iphone that comes out, so people will buy it.

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  • Reply 25 of 118
    MacPromacpro Posts: 19,873member
    pirarre wrote: »
    Apple just doesn't like competition...especially when it's a chance the competition can beat you. I don't see Coca Cola suing Pepsi...smh. This is horrible. Hopefully HTC Will get that injunction on iphone. What they're trying to do is demolish Samsung.Because Samsung is the leading manufacturer for Android. It's strange because when the first iphone came out and the first Android device, all these patents and stuff didn't matter. The reason, well because the iphone was the best device around, hands down. But now that Android than developed more and continues to mature and devices are coming out more powerful than ever and doing things the iphone doesn't, now Apple wants to go sue crazy.
    And now look Apple has stolen some of the features from android...pulldown notification bar, reject call with text, fly in feature and many more. And I'll say this again, When talking about features, Apple give it's customers little by little...just enough to keep them interested. Then when the next iphone comes out they'll give a little more.It's like they string people along and people bite. Case in point, a bigger screen. How long have people been wanting this? Now 2 years later, it's implemented. NFC...people have been asking for this. Why isn't it included in the iP5? Well because it's gonna be Apple's main feature of the next iphone that comes out, so people will buy it.

    Friendly advice. Go back to your Fandroid site where someone will actually think you have a genuine point, here ... not so much.
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  • Reply 26 of 118
    MacPromacpro Posts: 19,873member
    jragosta wrote: »
    You don't have any idea what you're talking about. There are no punitive damages in a case like this.
    The reason the jury did not award Apple's request had nothing to do with degree of guilt. They basically agreed with Apple on most of the infringement (with the bizarre exception of the Tab). The difference was that they accepted Samsung's expert's opinion on the damages per device. I believe that this was erroneous and due to a lack of understanding of economics. While it is true that Samsung's NET margin was only 20% (or whatever it was), Apple wanted to use the GROSS margin - which is much higher. Apple's argument is actually stronger because of the principle of contribution margin. Contribution margin is much closer to the gross figure than the net figure. By using the net figure, even taking away 100% of Samsung's profits from infringing devices leaves Samsung materially better off than they would have been if they hadn't infringed.
    Triple damages can be awarded when the jury finds the infringement to be willful - as they did in this case.

    Seems logical to me.
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  • Reply 27 of 118


    Almost all the patents "infringed" by Samsung are nonsense, that patents never had to be allowed in the first place.


    Has Apple patented the white color already??


     


    Reclaiming that amount is nonsense either, as they claim that all Samsung's phones sold are iPhone "lost" sales.


    I have a Galaxy SII and I knew exactly what I was buying, didn't want to be in the Apple's "Everybody needs the same. I tell you what you can install and how to use it" cage.


     


    Apple has also infringed many patents from others.


    All this patent wars are nonsense.


     


    Apple tries to win the phone battle in the courts, because they cannot win it on the market.


    Apple is one company with only one phone model, against many companies with many phone models.


     


    Apple has already lost the phone battle.


    They should have licensed iOS some years ago.


     


    I'm not anti-Apple (I own several computers and gadgets), and pro-nothing, but this is how I see it.

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  • Reply 28 of 118
    pirarre wrote: »
    Apple just doesn't like competition...especially when it's a chance the competition can beat you. I don't see Coca Cola suing Pepsi...smh. This is horrible. Hopefully HTC Will get that injunction on iphone. What they're trying to do is demolish Samsung.Because Samsung is the leading manufacturer for Android. It's strange because when the first iphone came out and the first Android device, all these patents and stuff didn't matter. The reason, well because the iphone was the best device around, hands down. But now that Android than developed more and continues to mature and devices are coming out more powerful than ever and doing things the iphone doesn't, now Apple wants to go sue crazy.
    And now look Apple has stolen some of the features from android...pulldown notification bar, reject call with text, fly in feature and many more. And I'll say this again, When talking about features, Apple give it's customers little by little...just enough to keep them interested. Then when the next iphone comes out they'll give a little more.It's like they string people along and people bite. Case in point, a bigger screen. How long have people been wanting this? Now 2 years later, it's implemented. NFC...people have been asking for this. Why isn't it included in the iP5? Well because it's gonna be Apple's main feature of the next iphone that comes out, so people will buy it.

    I guess you live in a bubble. Coke and Pepsi sue each other all the time. Most recently, coke sued over bottle shape...

    http://www.google.com/search?q=coke+sues+pepsi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
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  • Reply 29 of 118
    MacPromacpro Posts: 19,873member
    jragosta wrote: »
    You don't have any idea what you're talking about. There are no punitive damages in a case like this.
    The reason the jury did not award Apple's request had nothing to do with degree of guilt. They basically agreed with Apple on most of the infringement (with the bizarre exception of the Tab). The difference was that they accepted Samsung's expert's opinion on the damages per device. I believe that this was erroneous and due to a lack of understanding of economics. While it is true that Samsung's NET margin was only 20% (or whatever it was), Apple wanted to use the GROSS margin - which is much higher. Apple's argument is actually stronger because of the principle of contribution margin. Contribution margin is much closer to the gross figure than the net figure. By using the net figure, even taking away 100% of Samsung's profits from infringing devices leaves Samsung materially better off than they would have been if they hadn't infringed.
    Triple damages can be awarded when the jury finds the infringement to be willful - as they did in this case.

    wovel wrote: »
    I guess you live in a bubble. Coke and Pepsi sue each other all the time. Most recently, coke sued over bottle shape...
    http://www.google.com/search?q=coke+sues+pepsi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

    Haha good catch. I bet that bottle had rounded edges!
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  • Reply 30 of 118

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pirarre View Post



    Apple just doesn't like competition...especially when it's a chance the competition can beat you. I don't see Coca Cola suing Pepsi...smh. This is horrible. Hopefully HTC Will get that injunction on iphone. What they're trying to do is demolish Samsung.Because Samsung is the leading manufacturer for Android. It's strange because when the first iphone came out and the first Android device, all these patents and stuff didn't matter. The reason, well because the iphone was the best device around, hands down. But now that Android than developed more and continues to mature and devices are coming out more powerful than ever and doing things the iphone doesn't, now Apple wants to go sue crazy.

    And now look Apple has stolen some of the features from android...pulldown notification bar, reject call with text, fly in feature and many more. And I'll say this again, When talking about features, Apple give it's customers little by little...just enough to keep them interested. Then when the next iphone comes out they'll give a little more.It's like they string people along and people bite. Case in point, a bigger screen. How long have people been wanting this? Now 2 years later, it's implemented. NFC...people have been asking for this. Why isn't it included in the iP5? Well because it's gonna be Apple's main feature of the next iphone that comes out, so people will buy it.




    Coke did sue Pepsi when the latter tried to infringe on their curvy bottle trade dress. You can't patent a recipe.


     


    Of course the patents didn't matter when Android first came out, they weren't stolen yet (nor were many patents granted too). If you remember, these were added in later releases on Android.


     


    NFC? Really? I haven't asked for it. My family and friends haven't asked for it. If you ask the average consumer, they probably never heard of NFC. It isn't widely used in retail currently so there is no point to include it. I, for one, will never use it if is included in my next phone.

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  • Reply 31 of 118
    MacPromacpro Posts: 19,873member
    criscoso wrote: »
    Almost all the patents "infringed" by Samsung are nonsense, that patents never had to be allowed in the first place.
    Has Apple patented the white color already??

    Reclaiming that amount is nonsense either, as they claim that all Samsung's phones sold are iPhone "lost" sales.
    I have a Galaxy SII and I knew exactly what I was buying, didn't want to be in the Apple's "Everybody needs the same. I tell you what you can install and how to use it" cage.

    Apple has also infringed many patents from others.
    All this patent wars are nonsense.

    Apple tries to win the phone battle in the courts, because they cannot win it on the market.
    Apple is one company with only one phone model, against many companies with many phone models.

    Apple has already lost the phone battle.
    They should have licensed iOS some years ago.

    I'm not anti-Apple (I own several computers and gadgets), and pro-nothing, but this is how I see it.

    Strange logic you employ. Had Google and Scamsung not ripped off Apple you wouldn't have had the Samsung phone to 'know you wanted' ... LOL
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  • Reply 32 of 118

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by criscoso View Post


    Almost all the patents "infringed" by Samsung are nonsense, that patents never had to be allowed in the first place.


    Has Apple patented the white color already??


     


    Reclaiming that amount is nonsense either, as they claim that all Samsung's phones sold are iPhone "lost" sales.


    I have a Galaxy SII and I knew exactly what I was buying, didn't want to be in the Apple's "Everybody needs the same. I tell you what you can install and how to use it" cage.


     


    Apple has also infringed many patents from others.


    All this patent wars are nonsense.


     


    Apple tries to win the phone battle in the courts, because they cannot win it on the market.


    Apple is one company with only one phone model, against many companies with many phone models.


     


    Apple has already lost the phone battle.


    They should have licensed iOS some years ago.


     


    I'm not anti-Apple (I own several computers and gadgets), and pro-nothing, but this is how I see it.



    there's nothing wrong in being ignorant and having a sub-80 IQ.


     


    apple makes 4x more money than sammy on phones and nobody else makes money. are they really loosing?


    same thing with computers..

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  • Reply 33 of 118

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by criscoso View Post


    Almost all the patents "infringed" by Samsung are nonsense, that patents never had to be allowed in the first place.


    Has Apple patented the white color already??


     


    Reclaiming that amount is nonsense either, as they claim that all Samsung's phones sold are iPhone "lost" sales.


    I have a Galaxy SII and I knew exactly what I was buying, didn't want to be in the Apple's "Everybody needs the same. I tell you what you can install and how to use it" cage.


     


    Apple has also infringed many patents from others.


    All this patent wars are nonsense.


     


    Apple tries to win the phone battle in the courts, because they cannot win it on the market.


    Apple is one company with only one phone model, against many companies with many phone models.


     


    Apple has already lost the phone battle.


    They should have licensed iOS some years ago.



    Seeing that Apple makes the lion's share of the profits, I don't see how it is losing. Apple doesn't play the market share game. It has the #1 phone in the world and compete favorable with Sammy with only 3 models (against Sammy's plethora of crappy models in addition to its flagship ones). Each new iphone is better than the last and will sell a lot more than the last.

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  • Reply 34 of 118


    If you are stating that all iPhone and iOS is Apple original, you are wrong. Inform yourself first.


    This is like saying MacOS is Apple original and not inspired by Xerox. LOL

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  • Reply 35 of 118
    MacPromacpro Posts: 19,873member
    criscoso wrote: »
    If you are stating that all iPhone and iOS is Apple original, you are wrong. Inform yourself first.
    This is like saying MacOS is Apple original and not inspired by Xerox. LOL

    You need to brush up on your history there fella. /smile
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  • Reply 36 of 118
    red oak wrote: »
    That is 30% of Samsung's total cash. It's gonna be a world of hurt

    I couldn't find that 30%, but Wiki tells me:
    Revenue US$ 247.5 billion (2011)
    Net income US$ 18.3 billion (2011)
    Total assets US$ 384.3 billion (2011)
    Total equity US$ 224.7 billion (2011)

    Of course; that's Samsung. Not just Samsung Electronics, to which you might were referring to.
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  • Reply 37 of 118

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post


    there's nothing wrong in being ignorant and having a sub-80 IQ.


     


    apple makes 4x more money than sammy on phones and nobody else makes money. are they really loosing?


    same thing with computers..





    I'm not ignorant, and to inform you my IQ is 148.


    But it's clear that you are a fanboy, I'm fan-nothing. LOL

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  • Reply 38 of 118

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


    Seeing that Apple makes the lion's share of the profits, I don't see how it is losing. Apple doesn't play the market share game. It has the #1 phone in the world and compete favorable with Sammy with only 3 models (against Sammy's plethora of crappy models in addition to its flagship ones). Each new iphone is better than the last and will sell a lot more than the last.





    Well, history will tell.


    Big COs have their time, and then fall.


    Ask IBM or Microsoft.

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  • Reply 39 of 118

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wovel View Post





    I guess you live in a bubble. Coke and Pepsi sue each other all the time. Most recently, coke sued over bottle shape...

    http://www.google.com/search?q=coke+sues+pepsi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari




    Ha Ha...fandroid site huh. It's cool...no need to get all upset. Just think about it, later today when Apple releases it's IOS 6 update...you'll finally get to play with some more features that Android users have been playing with for some time now.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post




    Coke did sue Pepsi when the latter tried to infringe on their curvy bottle trade dress. You can't patent a recipe.


     


    Of course the patents didn't matter when Android first came out, they weren't stolen yet (nor were many patents granted too). If you remember, these were added in later releases on Android.


     


    NFC? Really? I haven't asked for it. My family and friends haven't asked for it. If you ask the average consumer, they probably never heard of NFC. It isn't widely used in retail currently so there is no point to include it. I, for one, will never use it if is included in my next phone.



     


    I understand what you mean about NFC. To tell you the truth, I thought the same thing when I got my GNexus. I thought that I wouldn't use it. But then more merchants started incorporating it like GAP, Mcdonalds and other stores that I shop at. Not only that, they offered discounts when you used NFC. I also found myself using NFC Tags..so there is use for NFC.

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  • Reply 40 of 118
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    criscoso wrote: »

    I'm not ignorant, and to inform you my IQ is 148.

    So why is it that you're so smart and still incapable of creating a rational argument?
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