I hope Apple ensures Google go through intense review for the proposed Google Maps standalone app and in the mean time improve their Maps App and say a big FU to Google. 100 Million customers no longer using your app,is not a small number.
Google can not longer hold Apple to ransom and thats what Page and the gang were trying to do.
Not just '100 million,' but likely the highest income segment customers of anyone/anywhere on the globe. It's suicidal to give that up, especially when monetizing mobile is where the future is for companies like GOOG and FB. (As an aside, I don't know anyone who's halfway well-off -- who also is not an Apple-hater -- that's an Android user).
That is what is strange. Is the tail (Motorola android device sales) wagging the dog (google ad sales to the most desirable demographic group)? It seems like a bad choice, based upon recent data.
Because, as stated in the article, Apple did not offer terms of their own, they just passive-aggressively refused everything Google suggested. Essentially, Apple wanted the feature without giving anything in return.
That's not even close to what it said. It said that Apple was not offering terms that Google would agree to. So why is it Apple's fault?
And I'm still waiting for you to show exactly what Apple offered and what Google offered. You're so convinced that the problems are Apple's fault that you must know those things, right?
You didn't say they were guilty either. You just insinuated that Google set out to deliberately screw it's iOS users. I don't know the exact terms but when was the last time Apple made an agreement that didn't heavily favor them?
Again, you don't have any idea what was offered by either party, so please stop pretending that you know who is 'at fault' here.
As for Google screwing its iOS users, that's obvious. The iOS app has been missing features for years.
Yesterday I criticized Apple, but today I'm going to criticize Google, based on this new information.
Google basically told all Apple users to go and F*ck themselves. No, we will not provide voice guided navigation for Apple users, we want it exclusively for Fandroids. Apple users have to look at their screens while driving, and if they crash their cars and die, then too bad.
And remember, Google Maps app on iOS was also not vector based.
So then Apple told Google to go F*ck themselves, because Apple realized that they had no choice but to release their own Maps app.
The Apple Maps app has a very strong foundation, it's fast, it's smooth and it's vector based. As the Apple map app improves, with more and better data, then it will be quite good. Soon, 99% of all normal people, besides a few moronic Fandroids, will have forgotten all about Map-Gate, just as people have forgotten about all of the other "Gates" that came before that.
Odds are that Apple simply didn't want to pay a premium price for the feature. Google has never been one to hold out on features, rather just to charge alot for the 'premium' features.
I'm sure that if Apple really wanted to include the feature, they could have through some concessions. Or they could have hit up Garmian, or Nokia, or someone else many years ago to provide it.
Apple is simply about control - moreso than any other company I've seen.
I'm sure it could have been brokered if the price were right- not that Apple is hurting for cash. And I'm sure that Apple saves tons of cash by using their own Map App.
Too bad for us purchasers of high end hardware now have to deal with a lower end Map software. Should have been extended a year as its clearly barely a beta.
No loss dude, there are many map apps available.
For me I use a local map which is more detailed than goog map and more useful too with building names and house numbers.
I am not so mentally challenged as to consult a map when i go for a walk nor do I need street view which is very old.
Turn by turn navigation is, and was already available on the iPhone by many different app vendors, so this argument doesn't make sense. The other app vendors have better solutions than Apple's sad attempt with Maps in iOS 6.
Apple should have implemented its own MAP solution years ago when they heard that Google was going to encroach on their turf and build a mobile phone which is similar in design.
With so much cash in hand, Apple should have invested in building its own services and don't let Google snap up all the great app developers one by one.
That is what Apple did. They took years to develop the app now featured in iOS 6. So after years of development, you got an app that has less features than the one it replaced. Apple used their cash to acquire a variety of map service companies. Their app didn't take a day to develop, although it functions like an app that only took a day.
I do not believe this. I mean, look, if Google ever make a Maps App for iOS, there will be turn-by-turn navigation. So, what's the point for google to hold it back? No point.
It's more believable that Apple axed the old Maps App because Google wants the data wired to them in a certain way and Apple thinks that'd give Google too much advantage. It's ok to axe it because of competitive reasons, I don't blame Apple. But I don't buy this turn-by-turn thing, and the facts will confirm what I said once Google finally releases a Maps App for iOS with turn-by-turn navigation.
Nope, it won't confirm what you say... why?
Because now that iOS users have turn-by-turn navigation, Google is forced to compete by adding it in themselves (something they might not have done without Apple giving users the solution build-in.)
You might be right, but having Google offer it in the future is not an clear indication that you are right.
Sure my vehicles all have turn by turn voice but they also have visual cues on screen as well, just like the iOS app. The problem is unless you put the iOS device in the back seat you are going to be tempted to look at the screen. If the screen is not at the eye level position, it is dangerous, because you take your eyes too far from the road, for too long, and too often. The Apple app even gives you a big warning before you start using it.
I have an iPhone mount that sticks to my front windshield, it positions my iPhone right above the dashboard. Doesn't everyone?
That's not even close to what it said. It said that Apple was not offering terms that Google would agree to. So why is it Apple's fault?
And I'm still waiting for you to show exactly what Apple offered and what Google offered. You're so convinced that the problems are Apple's fault that you must know those things, right?
Again, you don't have any idea what was offered by either party, so please stop pretending that you know who is 'at fault' here.
As for Google screwing its iOS users, that's obvious. The iOS app has been missing features for years.
Where do I state someone's to blame? I believe they're both to blame. The agreement was up and both wanted more from the other, Apple wanted turn by turn and Google wanted in app branding plus Latitude. Neither wanted to give in so a deal wasn't reached which ended up screwing iOS users. I don't believe there was any malicious intent on either side.
Aside from one little problem - that's illegal in many (if not most) jurisdictions. Blocking portions of the windshield (aside from a few inches around the edges) is a no-no. Not to mention incredibly unsafe.
Mine is in the same place my old Magellan GPS unit used to be. Close to eye level without blocking my view of the road. Are you saying all GPS devices are illegal?
For the record, what's unsafe is having to manually cycle through the directions by pressing a spot on the screen after each turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Because, as stated in the article, Apple did not offer terms of their own, they just passive-aggressively refused everything Google suggested. Essentially, Apple wanted the feature without giving anything in return.
Google asked for unreasonable terms (for those that aren't aware, Latitude is Google's giant 24/7 mobile location tracking database) thinking they had Apple over the barrel. It takes a lot of hubris on Google's part to assume Apple had no other options.
And good on Apple for standing up for iPhone user privacy.
Google asked for unreasonable terms (for those that aren't aware, Latitude is Google's giant 24/7 mobile location tracking database) thinking they had Apple over the barrel. It takes a lot of hubris on Google's part to assume Apple had no other options.
Except that was one of several suggestions, not exactly a demand. Apple, in the other hand, didn't make any suggestions of their own, they just denied everything Google suggested, in essence only accepting it if Google provided the service for free. That's not standing for your users' privacy or experience or anything at all, that's a purely political decision not made with users in mind. Google also suggested adding in-app branding. which apple refused, and strangely you didn't mention it. Why did you forget?
I think that this is the main reason that Steve Jobs was so upset with Google.
I'd say "theft of an entire operating system, mirroring the illegal, immoral, and disgustingly pathetic actions of another man at another company just 20 years prior" would have superseded that. Not to say that he wouldn't have been upset about this, of course.
Fine, them keep paying as is until you get it right. iPhone users don't care about the voice we care about street view. Siri can't hear us on a street anyway to give us directions at least not in Manhattan.
i'm an iPhone user and is not at all dependent on the Street View, never used except for fun, and would rather be better off with voice direction.. so there.. not all iPhone users care about street view...
Fine, them keep paying as is until you get it right. iPhone users don't care about the voice we care about street view. Siri can't hear us on a street anyway to give us directions at least not in Manhattan.
I just don't get this fascination people have with street view. It is a nice novelty but it isn't like there is this tremendous street view coverage that makes it predictable and a reliable tool. Does it show promiss? Certainly, but it's coverage is so thin that the bemoaning its loss is laughable.
That is what Apple did. They took years to develop the app now featured in iOS 6. So after years of development, you got an app that has less features than the one it replaced. Apple used their cash to acquire a variety of map service companies. Their app didn't take a day to develop, although it functions like an app that only took a day.
That is a little harsh don't you think? It may be currently missing some features that some people use at times, but hardly a junk app. If the maps app is that much of a deal breaker, then you should return your iPhone for an Android phone, and you can continue to use what you have always used plus get turn-by-turn directions. However, there would undoubtedly be some features on that phone that you would have issues with as well, so you would have to weigh the pros and cons. Apple cares more about their customers than almost any company out there and they decided that long-term, remaining with Google Maps is not in the best interest of their customers. Sometimes you have to force people to use something new to see the long-term advantages, as people usually continue to use what they are used to and may not be aware or willing to try something new. Otherwise, why are so many people still using Windows XP and Windows Vista (aside from the few whose hardware won't run Windows 7)? There are growing pains to be sure, but it is like that for any big change. Long-time Apple users have experienced these type of "all in" changes before, and it always worked out in the long run. A lot of people who do use the maps app have no problems. Unfortunately you are not one of them, but it's the same with any product. The people with complaints always scream the loudest while the ones that are happy with it don't feel the need to be vocal. Give it some time and try Apple's maps out for a while, and even help improve it if you can. if you do not like it there are alternatives, some free, some not, but they do exist. You may try them out and even find that you prefer one of them to what Google offered, you never know. Sure that app may be one that costs money, but if it fits your needs better, it would be worth it if the app is that critical to you. I believe there are valid issues that need to be addressed and perhaps would not have been if they were not brought to Apple's attention, but be constructive, speak your peace and move on.
Turn by turn on an iOS device is not that useful. Unless you have dedicated mounting brackets in your auto so that the device is more at eye level, using turn by turn and looking down at the device sitting on the passenger seat or holding your phone while driving is a dangerous habit to get into. Personally, I have built in navigation in all my autos so I don't need it at all. I can see a case for all vehicles having built in navigation within the next 5 years or so. Perhaps this new Apple Maps service is the precursor to striking a deal with auto makers to provide built in iOS devices in the cars..
I used it over the weekend, in addition to the visual display it speaks the directions to you. It is usable without looking at the screen.
Do you really need an IOS device in every car? All you really need is an Airplay compatible display and a button on the steering wheel to activate Siri. This seems easier because I hate having to learn a new nav system every time I get into a different car. Wouldn't it be better to take your preferred nav solution - whether it be Apple Maps or another app - and use it effortlessly in whatever car you got into?
Except that was one of several suggestions, not exactly a demand. Apple, in the other hand, didn't make any suggestions of their own, they just denied everything Google suggested, in essence only accepting it if Google provided the service for free. That's not standing for your users' privacy or experience or anything at all, that's a purely political decision not made with users in mind. Google also suggested adding in-app branding. which apple refused, and strangely you didn't mention it. Why did you forget?
That's not going to become true no matter how many times you say it.
Even if the rumor is correct (which isn't by any means certain), it only says that Apple didn't offer any terms that Google would agree to. There's absolutely nothing that says that Apple didn't offer anything at all.
BTW, I"m still waiting for you to provide the details of what Apple offered and what Google offered because you keep insisting that you know.
[QUOTE]The iOS app was made by Apple, using Google's back-end data. Any inadequacies in the app would fall on Apple's shoulders...[/QUOTE]
My understanding was that apple couldn't LEGALLY add turn by turn due to their license with google. As for vector maps, they can't just Steal them form google, if google only provides raster maps.
Comments
That is what is strange. Is the tail (Motorola android device sales) wagging the dog (google ad sales to the most desirable demographic group)? It seems like a bad choice, based upon recent data.
That's not even close to what it said. It said that Apple was not offering terms that Google would agree to. So why is it Apple's fault?
And I'm still waiting for you to show exactly what Apple offered and what Google offered. You're so convinced that the problems are Apple's fault that you must know those things, right?
Again, you don't have any idea what was offered by either party, so please stop pretending that you know who is 'at fault' here.
As for Google screwing its iOS users, that's obvious. The iOS app has been missing features for years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Yesterday I criticized Apple, but today I'm going to criticize Google, based on this new information.
Google basically told all Apple users to go and F*ck themselves. No, we will not provide voice guided navigation for Apple users, we want it exclusively for Fandroids. Apple users have to look at their screens while driving, and if they crash their cars and die, then too bad.
And remember, Google Maps app on iOS was also not vector based.
So then Apple told Google to go F*ck themselves, because Apple realized that they had no choice but to release their own Maps app.
The Apple Maps app has a very strong foundation, it's fast, it's smooth and it's vector based. As the Apple map app improves, with more and better data, then it will be quite good. Soon, 99% of all normal people, besides a few moronic Fandroids, will have forgotten all about Map-Gate, just as people have forgotten about all of the other "Gates" that came before that.
Odds are that Apple simply didn't want to pay a premium price for the feature. Google has never been one to hold out on features, rather just to charge alot for the 'premium' features.
I'm sure that if Apple really wanted to include the feature, they could have through some concessions. Or they could have hit up Garmian, or Nokia, or someone else many years ago to provide it.
Apple is simply about control - moreso than any other company I've seen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
As for Google screwing its iOS users, that's obvious. The iOS app has been missing features for years.
The iOS app was made by Apple, using Google's back-end data. Any inadequacies in the app would fall on Apple's shoulders...
If Apple had really wanted to, there were also other providers of mapping data that I'm sure they could have hit up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon
I'm sure it could have been brokered if the price were right- not that Apple is hurting for cash. And I'm sure that Apple saves tons of cash by using their own Map App.
Too bad for us purchasers of high end hardware now have to deal with a lower end Map software. Should have been extended a year as its clearly barely a beta.
No loss dude, there are many map apps available.
For me I use a local map which is more detailed than goog map and more useful too with building names and house numbers.
I am not so mentally challenged as to consult a map when i go for a walk nor do I need street view which is very old.
Turn by turn navigation is, and was already available on the iPhone by many different app vendors, so this argument doesn't make sense. The other app vendors have better solutions than Apple's sad attempt with Maps in iOS 6.
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant
Apple should have implemented its own MAP solution years ago when they heard that Google was going to encroach on their turf and build a mobile phone which is similar in design.
With so much cash in hand, Apple should have invested in building its own services and don't let Google snap up all the great app developers one by one.
That is what Apple did. They took years to develop the app now featured in iOS 6. So after years of development, you got an app that has less features than the one it replaced. Apple used their cash to acquire a variety of map service companies. Their app didn't take a day to develop, although it functions like an app that only took a day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever
I do not believe this. I mean, look, if Google ever make a Maps App for iOS, there will be turn-by-turn navigation. So, what's the point for google to hold it back? No point.
It's more believable that Apple axed the old Maps App because Google wants the data wired to them in a certain way and Apple thinks that'd give Google too much advantage. It's ok to axe it because of competitive reasons, I don't blame Apple. But I don't buy this turn-by-turn thing, and the facts will confirm what I said once Google finally releases a Maps App for iOS with turn-by-turn navigation.
Nope, it won't confirm what you say... why?
Because now that iOS users have turn-by-turn navigation, Google is forced to compete by adding it in themselves (something they might not have done without Apple giving users the solution build-in.)
You might be right, but having Google offer it in the future is not an clear indication that you are right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Sure my vehicles all have turn by turn voice but they also have visual cues on screen as well, just like the iOS app. The problem is unless you put the iOS device in the back seat you are going to be tempted to look at the screen. If the screen is not at the eye level position, it is dangerous, because you take your eyes too far from the road, for too long, and too often. The Apple app even gives you a big warning before you start using it.
I have an iPhone mount that sticks to my front windshield, it positions my iPhone right above the dashboard. Doesn't everyone?
Where do I state someone's to blame? I believe they're both to blame. The agreement was up and both wanted more from the other, Apple wanted turn by turn and Google wanted in app branding plus Latitude. Neither wanted to give in so a deal wasn't reached which ended up screwing iOS users. I don't believe there was any malicious intent on either side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Aside from one little problem - that's illegal in many (if not most) jurisdictions. Blocking portions of the windshield (aside from a few inches around the edges) is a no-no. Not to mention incredibly unsafe.
Mine is in the same place my old Magellan GPS unit used to be. Close to eye level without blocking my view of the road. Are you saying all GPS devices are illegal?
For the record, what's unsafe is having to manually cycle through the directions by pressing a spot on the screen after each turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Because, as stated in the article, Apple did not offer terms of their own, they just passive-aggressively refused everything Google suggested. Essentially, Apple wanted the feature without giving anything in return.
Google asked for unreasonable terms (for those that aren't aware, Latitude is Google's giant 24/7 mobile location tracking database) thinking they had Apple over the barrel. It takes a lot of hubris on Google's part to assume Apple had no other options.
And good on Apple for standing up for iPhone user privacy.
Except that was one of several suggestions, not exactly a demand. Apple, in the other hand, didn't make any suggestions of their own, they just denied everything Google suggested, in essence only accepting it if Google provided the service for free. That's not standing for your users' privacy or experience or anything at all, that's a purely political decision not made with users in mind. Google also suggested adding in-app branding. which apple refused, and strangely you didn't mention it. Why did you forget?
I think that this is the main reason that Steve Jobs was so upset with Google.
Originally Posted by rsdofny
I think that this is the main reason that Steve Jobs was so upset with Google.
I'd say "theft of an entire operating system, mirroring the illegal, immoral, and disgustingly pathetic actions of another man at another company just 20 years prior" would have superseded that. Not to say that he wouldn't have been upset about this, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon
Fine, them keep paying as is until you get it right. iPhone users don't care about the voice we care about street view. Siri can't hear us on a street anyway to give us directions at least not in Manhattan.
i'm an iPhone user and is not at all dependent on the Street View, never used except for fun, and would rather be better off with voice direction.. so there.. not all iPhone users care about street view...
I just don't get this fascination people have with street view. It is a nice novelty but it isn't like there is this tremendous street view coverage that makes it predictable and a reliable tool. Does it show promiss? Certainly, but it's coverage is so thin that the bemoaning its loss is laughable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones
That is what Apple did. They took years to develop the app now featured in iOS 6. So after years of development, you got an app that has less features than the one it replaced. Apple used their cash to acquire a variety of map service companies. Their app didn't take a day to develop, although it functions like an app that only took a day.
That is a little harsh don't you think? It may be currently missing some features that some people use at times, but hardly a junk app. If the maps app is that much of a deal breaker, then you should return your iPhone for an Android phone, and you can continue to use what you have always used plus get turn-by-turn directions. However, there would undoubtedly be some features on that phone that you would have issues with as well, so you would have to weigh the pros and cons. Apple cares more about their customers than almost any company out there and they decided that long-term, remaining with Google Maps is not in the best interest of their customers. Sometimes you have to force people to use something new to see the long-term advantages, as people usually continue to use what they are used to and may not be aware or willing to try something new. Otherwise, why are so many people still using Windows XP and Windows Vista (aside from the few whose hardware won't run Windows 7)? There are growing pains to be sure, but it is like that for any big change. Long-time Apple users have experienced these type of "all in" changes before, and it always worked out in the long run. A lot of people who do use the maps app have no problems. Unfortunately you are not one of them, but it's the same with any product. The people with complaints always scream the loudest while the ones that are happy with it don't feel the need to be vocal. Give it some time and try Apple's maps out for a while, and even help improve it if you can. if you do not like it there are alternatives, some free, some not, but they do exist. You may try them out and even find that you prefer one of them to what Google offered, you never know. Sure that app may be one that costs money, but if it fits your needs better, it would be worth it if the app is that critical to you. I believe there are valid issues that need to be addressed and perhaps would not have been if they were not brought to Apple's attention, but be constructive, speak your peace and move on.
Do you really need an IOS device in every car? All you really need is an Airplay compatible display and a button on the steering wheel to activate Siri. This seems easier because I hate having to learn a new nav system every time I get into a different car. Wouldn't it be better to take your preferred nav solution - whether it be Apple Maps or another app - and use it effortlessly in whatever car you got into?
That's not going to become true no matter how many times you say it.
Even if the rumor is correct (which isn't by any means certain), it only says that Apple didn't offer any terms that Google would agree to. There's absolutely nothing that says that Apple didn't offer anything at all.
BTW, I"m still waiting for you to provide the details of what Apple offered and what Google offered because you keep insisting that you know.
My understanding was that apple couldn't LEGALLY add turn by turn due to their license with google. As for vector maps, they can't just Steal them form google, if google only provides raster maps.