Criticism of Apple may be overboard but substantial criticism is due. iOS 6 maps and other problems are worthy of criticism. My concern is this is symptomatic of problems generally at Apple, obvious flaws like we've witnessed with iOS 6 and apps, and scratching of the aluminum in the iPhone 5 should never have made it out the door and certainly not made it past user testing.
QC is lacking, and is underappreciated at Apple now. Cook and clan, being spreadsheet guys, are likely competent in and concerned only with what they know -- the financials. Cook and clan would likely be quite adequate in companies like Pepsi and Coke, maybe even great. But at Apple, they are dooming the company to mediocrity in record time. Cook is a Sculley look-alike.
Good thing I bought Apple at 60. I fully expect Apple's stock and sales to drop significantly in the coming months unless Cook and clan realize they don't have a clue.
Apple cannot apologize or advertise their way out of this; the shine is off this apple now.
Am I the only one who thinks the NYT's version of journalism consists of kicking a man when he's down. I have to roll my eyes with each new "unnamed source"
Sadly, the NYT's Tech journalism has always been mediocre. It only got worse when the basically turned their Tech section into a blog. And, they went decidedly anti-Apple after Gizmodo stole the iPhone 4 prototype.
If Apple decides it really has mapping problems, they should just BUY Nokia which also owns Navtaq. Nokia's total net-worth is only $10 billion and the Navteq portion of that is estimated to be $1 billion.
I think that's only going to happen if Apple releases a web-based version of their mapping app. There's a lot of iOS users but there's significantly more web users. That's important for a service that relies on crowding-sourcing.
Even if they did release a web version, it would probably be an iCloud feature, which means iOS & OS X users only. Apple only seems interested in ads as a way for developers to release ad supported software, so it's hard to see them offering a free to everyone, ad supported, web version. Still that's a large and growing number of users.
Criticism of Apple may be overboard but substantial criticism is due. iOS 6 maps and other problems are worthy of criticism.
I'm still waiting for one shred of legitimate evidence that Apple's Maps are significantly worse than Google's Maps.
NYT is doing what everyone else seems to be doing. Someone starts a rumor that there's a problem and everyone accepts it as fact. Then Google reinforces the rumor with an ad based on the fact that Apple's Maps is somehow inferior because it won't find a hand-selected, imaginary address.
The only one who even tried a side-by-side comparison is (surprisingly) Consumer Reports which found that Apple's Maps was as good as Google's Maps when it came to finding an address.
So please show me the FACTS (not oft-repated opinions or anecdotes) that "substantial criticism is due".
Why do you think Google wants to hurt Apple? What are the benefits of doing so?
What the what?! You think Google is so altruistic that they'd help Apple make money at their expense? Come on!!! Google, just like Apple, just like MS, just like every reasonable company on Earth will maneuver itself to make its products look more successful in comparison to a competitor.
In this case, there is much to weigh in regards to Google releasing a native app on the App Store if it helps Apple's platform look more attractive during the interim of their Apple Maps growing pains period. Google will weigh this against the profit they can gain from map searches, the cost for creating the app, the number of users they might get to use the web app on iDevices, and number of people that might not update to iOS 6 or even jump to Android or not buy an iDevice in their determination of how to proceed.
The NYT apparently isn't aware of consumer satisfaction reports that place Apple gear at the very top year after year.
Apple gear runs Apple's "internet services", including the big headliners, iTunes and iCloud. Both of which are currently unmatched in the industry.
Something's up, because the industry is reeling from iPhone-mania, and competitors just can't get a leg up when it comes to mindshare. It's usually around the time of Apple's big product launches that we get media spin. The more successful Apple is, the more the pot is stirred.
It's interesting that the biggest sword opponents can wield in this area is Ping, and now, a maps app. One service was an experiment that never really mattered (it was a minor iTunes feature), while the other one is the product of Apple severing ties with Google, which is in everyone's best interest long-term.
Why do you think Google wants to hurt Apple? What are the benefits of doing so?
You might as well be asking, why does Google try to destroy the competition in every market they enter?
Because, for Google to be successful, they have to eliminate alternatives to add based content and services, or such is their belief and overall business strategy for years now.
Because Google wants to control access to all information, so everyone has to go through them, so they know everything about everyone.
Because Page is a psychopathic megalomaniac mentored by the utterly devoid of all morals Schmidt.
It doesn't even have to be rational when the people running the company have a Pinky and the Brain mentality.
Thanks for the link. The Navteq system seems to be the road based equivalent (with more bells and whistles) to the SAAB flight based recording system, they would fit together like a hand in a glove! I hope Apple is either licensing this or buying this company!
Nokia owns NavTeq, they form the basis of both Nokia and Bing maps.
They are comparing the 1.0 version of the iPhone to the iOS 6 version, assuming that the same thing happened. It didn't, the new maps were announced at WWDC some time ago.
I'm still waiting for one shred of legitimate evidence that Apple's Maps are significantly worse than Google's Maps.
NYT is doing what everyone else seems to be doing. Someone starts a rumor that there's a problem and everyone accepts it as fact. Then Google reinforces the rumor with an ad based on the fact that Apple's Maps is somehow inferior because it won't find a hand-selected, imaginary address.
The only one who even tried a side-by-side comparison is (surprisingly) Consumer Reports which found that Apple's Maps was as good as Google's Maps when it came to finding an address.
So please show me the FACTS (not oft-repated opinions or anecdotes) that "substantial criticism is due".
Apple Maps is no different than our complaints of WnPh7, Android, Windows, etc. It's often just opinions. Even if they are backed up with valid and reasonable factual examples it's still one's opinion that the end result is inferior. And it's oft not glaring or egregious issues but a collection of small issues.
Take WinPh7/8, for example. I think it's a brilliant mobile OS. It's modern and unique. it's taking the good aspects of iOS without stealing from iOS like some other companies have. MS has even gotten the WinNT kernel used for WInPh8 just as they use fro their desktop and server OS products. I think that's big!
That said, it's still in no way good enough in the OS, the HW they sell on (and I quite like the Lumia HW), and the ecosystem for it to be a suitable replacement for my iPhone. These are my opinions of which I can back up with plenty of facts and if it was released as is when iOS was in version 2 or so I think Apple would have a fight on its hand for the most mindshare and best app ecosystem (developers and number of apps) with Android being only on cheap feature phones with Samsung being a huge WinPh vendor.
But those extra years have made a huge difference. Google has the clear advantage even though Apple Maps has some great aspects and huge potential. In a year this could all but be forgotten just as the first year of the iPhone with web apps as Apple was still developing the iOS development environment, and the first years of the iPhone where there was no Adobe Flash so it couldn't run "the full internet" which we should now call "the full of it internet."
In fact, I've been very vocal about what I thought would happen with iOS 6 Maps if Apple didn't certain things resolved before launch. It's 1.5 weeks since iOS 6 was released and everything I stated has come true. However, I think it'll be less of a longterm issue than the whole Adobe Flash thing ever was.
Have you tried doing the analysis yourself? Can you prove that Apple Maps isn't significantly worse than Google Maps?
Should be fairly easy to do a meta-analysis via Google though.
I only have my experience to go from. I'm not concerned with meta-analysis. So far my experience has been that Apple maps has been pretty good. Turn by turn navigation and basically the same features without Street view makes Apple's map product a win for me.
I thought I would miss SigAlert features, but that is not a dealbreaker for me. It has some more accurate information about traffic though, even without the pretty colors.
I travel extensively in the SF BA and haven't had a grossly missed address yet. Google maps was usually off by one or two places, too.
In my final analysis, iOS maps is just fine. No problem here. Move along.
... But those extra years have made a huge difference. Google has the clear advantage even though Apple Maps has some great aspects and huge potential. ...
Does it? Again, what are the respective error rates in the data? Or, is a lot, maybe most, of this just that people are used to Google Maps, and people like what they are used to and don't like change?
Have you tried doing the analysis yourself? Can you prove that Apple Maps isn't significantly worse than Google Maps?
Should be fairly easy to do a meta-analysis via Google though.
I'm not the one making the claim that Apple's Maps are inferior. The people making that claim have the burden of proof.
But, if you wish, I used Apple Maps to find 5 addresses. Each one gave me the same location as Google Maps. Therefore, my 'analysis' is that Apple Maps is perfect.
Google has the clear advantage even though Apple Maps has some great aspects and huge potential. In a year this could all but be forgotten just as the first year of the iPhone with web apps as Apple was still developing the iOS development environment, and the first years of the iPhone where there was no Adobe Flash so it couldn't run "the full internet" which we should now call "the full of it internet."
In fact, I've been very vocal about what I thought would happen with iOS 6 Maps if Apple didn't certain things resolved before launch. It's 1.5 weeks since iOS 6 was released and everything I stated has come true. However, I think it'll be less of a longterm issue than the whole Adobe Flash thing ever was.
Please tell us how Google's maps is so much better than iOS apps is now. Because other than Streetview I'm not seeing it. Even then Streetview was a pain in the ass to use on iOS 5 and lower anyway. So it doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned. But that's just me.
Comments
QC is lacking, and is underappreciated at Apple now. Cook and clan, being spreadsheet guys, are likely competent in and concerned only with what they know -- the financials. Cook and clan would likely be quite adequate in companies like Pepsi and Coke, maybe even great. But at Apple, they are dooming the company to mediocrity in record time. Cook is a Sculley look-alike.
Good thing I bought Apple at 60. I fully expect Apple's stock and sales to drop significantly in the coming months unless Cook and clan realize they don't have a clue.
Apple cannot apologize or advertise their way out of this; the shine is off this apple now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775
Am I the only one who thinks the NYT's version of journalism consists of kicking a man when he's down. I have to roll my eyes with each new "unnamed source"
Sadly, the NYT's Tech journalism has always been mediocre. It only got worse when the basically turned their Tech section into a blog. And, they went decidedly anti-Apple after Gizmodo stole the iPhone 4 prototype.
If Apple decides it really has mapping problems, they should just BUY Nokia which also owns Navtaq. Nokia's total net-worth is only $10 billion and the Navteq portion of that is estimated to be $1 billion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
I think that's only going to happen if Apple releases a web-based version of their mapping app. There's a lot of iOS users but there's significantly more web users. That's important for a service that relies on crowding-sourcing.
Even if they did release a web version, it would probably be an iCloud feature, which means iOS & OS X users only. Apple only seems interested in ads as a way for developers to release ad supported software, so it's hard to see them offering a free to everyone, ad supported, web version. Still that's a large and growing number of users.
I'm still waiting for one shred of legitimate evidence that Apple's Maps are significantly worse than Google's Maps.
NYT is doing what everyone else seems to be doing. Someone starts a rumor that there's a problem and everyone accepts it as fact. Then Google reinforces the rumor with an ad based on the fact that Apple's Maps is somehow inferior because it won't find a hand-selected, imaginary address.
The only one who even tried a side-by-side comparison is (surprisingly) Consumer Reports which found that Apple's Maps was as good as Google's Maps when it came to finding an address.
So please show me the FACTS (not oft-repated opinions or anecdotes) that "substantial criticism is due".
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman
Criticism of Apple may be overboard but substantial criticism is due. iOS 6 maps and other problems are worthy of criticism. ...
Since you are so knowledgeable on this topic, what exactly are the respective error rates of Google's map data and Apple's?
Oh, you have no idea? That's what I thought.
What is it about this topic that suddenly has everyone pretending they know what they are talking about.
What the what?! You think Google is so altruistic that they'd help Apple make money at their expense? Come on!!! Google, just like Apple, just like MS, just like every reasonable company on Earth will maneuver itself to make its products look more successful in comparison to a competitor.
In this case, there is much to weigh in regards to Google releasing a native app on the App Store if it helps Apple's platform look more attractive during the interim of their Apple Maps growing pains period. Google will weigh this against the profit they can gain from map searches, the cost for creating the app, the number of users they might get to use the web app on iDevices, and number of people that might not update to iOS 6 or even jump to Android or not buy an iDevice in their determination of how to proceed.
The NYT apparently isn't aware of consumer satisfaction reports that place Apple gear at the very top year after year.
Apple gear runs Apple's "internet services", including the big headliners, iTunes and iCloud. Both of which are currently unmatched in the industry.
Something's up, because the industry is reeling from iPhone-mania, and competitors just can't get a leg up when it comes to mindshare. It's usually around the time of Apple's big product launches that we get media spin. The more successful Apple is, the more the pot is stirred.
It's interesting that the biggest sword opponents can wield in this area is Ping, and now, a maps app. One service was an experiment that never really mattered (it was a minor iTunes feature), while the other one is the product of Apple severing ties with Google, which is in everyone's best interest long-term.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Why do you think Google wants to hurt Apple? What are the benefits of doing so?
You might as well be asking, why does Google try to destroy the competition in every market they enter?
Because, for Google to be successful, they have to eliminate alternatives to add based content and services, or such is their belief and overall business strategy for years now.
Because Google wants to control access to all information, so everyone has to go through them, so they know everything about everyone.
Because Page is a psychopathic megalomaniac mentored by the utterly devoid of all morals Schmidt.
It doesn't even have to be rational when the people running the company have a Pinky and the Brain mentality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Thanks for the link. The Navteq system seems to be the road based equivalent (with more bells and whistles) to the SAAB flight based recording system, they would fit together like a hand in a glove! I hope Apple is either licensing this or buying this company!
Nokia owns NavTeq, they form the basis of both Nokia and Bing maps.
Have you tried doing the analysis yourself? Can you prove that Apple Maps isn't significantly worse than Google Maps?
Should be fairly easy to do a meta-analysis via Google though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Why do you think Google wants to hurt Apple? What are the benefits of doing so?
Why did they release an ad snubbing Apple Maps? To promote Android phones by Motorola of course?
It took Google seven years to find my address, and then they got it wrong the first two times.
Apple Maps is no different than our complaints of WnPh7, Android, Windows, etc. It's often just opinions. Even if they are backed up with valid and reasonable factual examples it's still one's opinion that the end result is inferior. And it's oft not glaring or egregious issues but a collection of small issues.
Take WinPh7/8, for example. I think it's a brilliant mobile OS. It's modern and unique. it's taking the good aspects of iOS without stealing from iOS like some other companies have. MS has even gotten the WinNT kernel used for WInPh8 just as they use fro their desktop and server OS products. I think that's big!
That said, it's still in no way good enough in the OS, the HW they sell on (and I quite like the Lumia HW), and the ecosystem for it to be a suitable replacement for my iPhone. These are my opinions of which I can back up with plenty of facts and if it was released as is when iOS was in version 2 or so I think Apple would have a fight on its hand for the most mindshare and best app ecosystem (developers and number of apps) with Android being only on cheap feature phones with Samsung being a huge WinPh vendor.
But those extra years have made a huge difference. Google has the clear advantage even though Apple Maps has some great aspects and huge potential. In a year this could all but be forgotten just as the first year of the iPhone with web apps as Apple was still developing the iOS development environment, and the first years of the iPhone where there was no Adobe Flash so it couldn't run "the full internet" which we should now call "the full of it internet."
In fact, I've been very vocal about what I thought would happen with iOS 6 Maps if Apple didn't certain things resolved before launch. It's 1.5 weeks since iOS 6 was released and everything I stated has come true. However, I think it'll be less of a longterm issue than the whole Adobe Flash thing ever was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Have you tried doing the analysis yourself? Can you prove that Apple Maps isn't significantly worse than Google Maps?
Should be fairly easy to do a meta-analysis via Google though.
So do it and report your results back here. You are the one making the claims. Back them up or admit that you have no idea what you are talking about.
I only have my experience to go from. I'm not concerned with meta-analysis. So far my experience has been that Apple maps has been pretty good. Turn by turn navigation and basically the same features without Street view makes Apple's map product a win for me.
I thought I would miss SigAlert features, but that is not a dealbreaker for me. It has some more accurate information about traffic though, even without the pretty colors.
I travel extensively in the SF BA and haven't had a grossly missed address yet. Google maps was usually off by one or two places, too.
In my final analysis, iOS maps is just fine. No problem here. Move along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
... But those extra years have made a huge difference. Google has the clear advantage even though Apple Maps has some great aspects and huge potential. ...
Does it? Again, what are the respective error rates in the data? Or, is a lot, maybe most, of this just that people are used to Google Maps, and people like what they are used to and don't like change?
I'm not the one making the claim that Apple's Maps are inferior. The people making that claim have the burden of proof.
But, if you wish, I used Apple Maps to find 5 addresses. Each one gave me the same location as Google Maps. Therefore, my 'analysis' is that Apple Maps is perfect.
Prove me wrong.
Please tell us how Google's maps is so much better than iOS apps is now. Because other than Streetview I'm not seeing it. Even then Streetview was a pain in the ass to use on iOS 5 and lower anyway. So it doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned. But that's just me.