I agree they should have called it beta software but leave the Google politics out of it.
But unfortunately that was the reason and I think everyone should know that. Politics or not, Google forced Apple's hand. For the public to understand the rational for releasing an unfinished service you really can't sweep the main issue under the rug.
...and this thread is about Apple Maps v Google Maps. That includes every aspect of each company's mapping solutions, not just the lowest-common-denominator.
Bottom line is Apple made the best choice of some very bad options. They had a contract that would expire before iOS 7 arrives, they wouldn't have had vector maps, TbT, and would have been using a much slower back-end compared to the maturing Android and WinPh offerings if they kept with Google. There was no choice but to jump in the deep end to swim now.
If we are going to fault Apple for anything it's for not starting their mapping service sooner, not because Google started their first or because Google is looking out for its own best interest.
Until they shed that side of the business, yes Google does build and sell set-top boxes thru their subsidiary Motorola Mobility
OK so Google is in the hardware business via MM acquisition. Point conceded. But does anyone really think Google purchased MM because they wanted to get into the hardware business? The Nexus 7 tablet was done in partnership with Asus and Google claims they're not making any profit off it (not sure how much Asus is).
Am I the only one who thinks the NYT's version of journalism consists of kicking a man when he's down. I have to roll my eyes with each new "unnamed source"
When it comes to Apple yes. They get more hits that way. And hits are the game
Again they neglect that this is a brand new product etc. They a guilty of over expectation. And exaggerating the issue just like most iPhone issues have been. Maps isn't perfect but it's far from 100% crap like these articles keep saying.
Frankly I'm starting to feel like Tim should have done as Steve did. Worded it more as "this is a brand new product and all brand new products in the tech world will have issues. Issues that the creating companies are working on non stop to fix. But if that isn't good enough for you, return the damn phone."
Prediction: Apple will have the best mapping service within a year.
I think that's only going to happen if Apple releases a web-based version of their mapping app. There's a lot of iOS users but there's significantly more web users. That's important for a service that relies on crowding-sourcing.
Excellent suggestion!
They could include features such as "Find My Frinds" and "Find My Phone".
[SIZE=24px]WHO OWN'S THE LARGEST ONLINE MUSIC STORE THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14px]Bunch of f**king bozo's.[/SIZE]
But even the iTunes store isn't perfect. Video side has major issues with timings, quality, pricing. Metadata for everything sucks.
ITunes Match has some serious hiccups with dropping cover art etc.
Some of it is stuff they could fix if the copyright holders would get their heads out of their butts. Others just need Apple to do it and hopefully they are.
Thanks for the link. The Navteq system seems to be the road based equivalent (with more bells and whistles) to the SAAB flight based recording system, they would fit together like a hand in a glove! I hope Apple is either licensing this or buying this company!
Yeah, before I knew about the Navteq system you may recall that since iOS 6 Maps beta was out I was suggesting such a system that would use tech similar to Flyover to do a digital mapping that would allow users a 3D street view. I really hope this comes to fruition in iOS 7. I'd think Navteq having a couple years to map, at least, the US would be sufficient time.
The more I think about it, you could mount the NavTeq equipment on a Segway and map the grounds and the inside of campuses, malls, office buildings...
But unfortunately that was the reason and I think everyone should know that. Politics or not, Google forced Apple's hand. For the public to understand the rational for releasing an unfinished service you really can't sweep the main issue under the rug.
If Apple did that then Google would come out with their version of the facts and it would be a pissing match between the two companies. As an end user I don't care about the politics between Apple and Google, iOS and Android. I just want a map app that isn't worse than the one I had before. Nokia spent $8B investing in maps. How much had Apple spent?
You introduced it when you said that one can't reasonable decide if something is better or worse if it can't be exactly quantified. I'll make sure to use your lameduck argument the next time to blindly claim Apple is ahead of some other company/ I'll likely agree with you that they are but I'll expect you to exactly quantify the unquantifiable as you try to use the Android/Windows user's argument as to why Apple's products are just hype when they can list spec sheet items that have had for years in a very poor form compared to a much better experience Apple usually gets right out of the gate.
So, you aren't able to back up your assertion about how much better Google Maps is, so you thought you'd try a little context shifting to distract from that?
If you want to argue subjective issues, that's fine, just don't pretend they are objective.
Thanks for the link. The Navteq system seems to be the road based equivalent (with more bells and whistles) to the SAAB flight based recording system, they would fit together like a hand in a glove! I hope Apple is either licensing this or buying this company!
Excuse me, but this is about the 30th post I've seen saying that Apple should buy Navteq. And it's time to kill this meme:
Navteq is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago" style="background-image:none;" target="_blank" title="Chicago">Chicago</a>
-based provider of <a class="mw-redirect" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_information_systems" style="background-image:none;" target="_blank" title="Geographic information systems">Geographic Information Systems</a>
(GIS) data and is a major provider of base electronic navigable maps. The company is a wholly owned <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiary" style="background-image:none;" target="_blank" title="Subsidiary">subsidiary</a>
of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia" style="background-image:none;" target="_blank" title="Nokia">Nokia</a> but operates independently.
All we all clear now?? Apple has money and talent to throw at this issue - but in terms of BUYING a company, they're gonna have to throw it somewhere else. Which does, one supposes, leave licensing, if they're truly the best alternative, as MS has influence at Nokia, and are lately more focused on suppressing Google than crossing swords with Cupertino.....
Mmm... Apple bought C3 the company that currently provides 3-D mapping information to Nokia... Mmmmm....
When it comes to Apple yes. They get more hits that way. And hits are the game
Again they neglect that this is a brand new product etc. They a guilty of over expectation. And exaggerating the issue just like most iPhone issues have been. Maps isn't perfect but it's far from 100% crap like these articles keep saying.
Frankly I'm starting to feel like Tim should have done as Steve did. Worded it more as "this is a brand new product and all brand new products in the tech world will have issues. Issues that the creating companies are working on non stop to fix. But if that isn't good enough for you, return the damn phone."
Tim and/or Scott should have done that at WWDC. Under sell and over deliver. They did the opposite. If they had labeled it a beta product and offered alternatives in the interim from the get go, no apology would have been needed.
If we are going to fault Apple for anything it's for not starting their mapping service sooner, not because Google started their first or because Google is looking out for its own best interest.
When Steve returned to Apple they were in serious financial trouble, and even after he guided the company back to a financial success he was always concerned about having enough cash to prevent any crisis like that from occurring again. In the spirit of conservative expenditures they acquired Placebase and Poly9 which were rather "C" grade mapping companies when they probably should have been looking at some of the top tier companies at the time when Tele Atlas and Navateq were still available. Now there are no more companies like that available except perhaps Tom Tom, Geo Eye, and Yelp. In my opinion, they really should have spent a couple billion more at the time instead of being so conservative.
First off, most of these articles written for many of these publications like the NYT are written by journalists with questionable backgrounds in Technology. Most of them aren't really trained in computer science, programming, engineering. Most of them have a journalist background.
Journalism is just another fancy name for sensationalism to sell newspapers. Apple is a big target due to their success and these newspapers have always knocked Apple every time an issue comes up and they are typically much nicer to the lessor quality alternative when they have BIGGER problems.
I've talked to several Android users that are frustrated with their products and can't stand how their Samsung S III sucks.
Unfortunately, some of us predate any available training in computer science. My first exposure to computers was in 1956 -- the IBM 305 RAMAC. My first programming instruction was in 1957 on the IBM 650 computer. My first job programming was in 1960 on the IBM 1401. My first job teaching programming was in 1963 on the IBM 1410.
How in the hell can anyone claim that Google has no advantage over Apple mapping when Apple doesn't even have a web-based mapping presence?
This is probably the biggest advantage Google has over Apple in mapping. Through their web based maps, millions of people are plotting POIs, writing reviews, and adding businesses to the maps data set. Google also has all of its search data to bring to bear and integrate with their mapping solution. Those are some very powerful tools that Apple just doesn't have anything close to matching.
None of it's going to be perfect. It's the internet.
This flak against Apple is now reaching ridiculous extremes. Way out of proportion. Other notable players can barely get a mobile platform off the ground - or are failing completely, never mind getting to enjoy the luxury of having a maps app as the biggest mark against it.
So, you aren't able to back up your assertion about how much better Google Maps is, so you thought you'd try a little context shifting to distract from that?
If you want to argue subjective issues, that's fine, just don't pretend they are objective.
I've provided clear examples where Google Maps is better than the week old Apple Maps. You're choosing to put your head up your ass by ignoring the various ways that Google is ahead of Apple right now. You make Apple and fans of Apple look bad.
OK so Google is in the hardware business via MM acquisition. Point conceded. But does anyone really think Google purchased MM because they wanted to get into the hardware business? The Nexus 7 tablet was done in partnership with Asus and Google claims they're not making any profit off it (not sure how much Asus is).
Personally I don't think Google has much interest in the hardware side of things either, but that doesn't mean I'm correct. They could absolutely have future plans involving new hardware and products unrelated to smartphones that no one here is privy to.
Unfortunately for Google and other competitors, maps makes up only a small part of a comprehensive mobile ecosystem.
The attempt to paint the iOS ecosystem (which is currently without peer) as somehow flawed because a map app still needs some work, is laughable. It goes to show just how far the also-rans and their shills will go to fight Apple's mindshare.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I agree they should have called it beta software but leave the Google politics out of it.
But unfortunately that was the reason and I think everyone should know that. Politics or not, Google forced Apple's hand. For the public to understand the rational for releasing an unfinished service you really can't sweep the main issue under the rug.
I certainly haven't ignored that...
...and this thread is about Apple Maps v Google Maps. That includes every aspect of each company's mapping solutions, not just the lowest-common-denominator.
Bottom line is Apple made the best choice of some very bad options. They had a contract that would expire before iOS 7 arrives, they wouldn't have had vector maps, TbT, and would have been using a much slower back-end compared to the maturing Android and WinPh offerings if they kept with Google. There was no choice but to jump in the deep end to swim now.
If we are going to fault Apple for anything it's for not starting their mapping service sooner, not because Google started their first or because Google is looking out for its own best interest.
When it comes to Apple yes. They get more hits that way. And hits are the game
Again they neglect that this is a brand new product etc. They a guilty of over expectation. And exaggerating the issue just like most iPhone issues have been. Maps isn't perfect but it's far from 100% crap like these articles keep saying.
Frankly I'm starting to feel like Tim should have done as Steve did. Worded it more as "this is a brand new product and all brand new products in the tech world will have issues. Issues that the creating companies are working on non stop to fix. But if that isn't good enough for you, return the damn phone."
Excellent suggestion!
They could include features such as "Find My Frinds" and "Find My Phone".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Great video of map data gathering... Now, if they could only mount that technology on a golf cart…
Or even a backpack.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/06/google-reveals-an-image-capturing-backpack-and-new-3d-maps/
Companies are going to exceptional lengths to define the landscape. That means there must be money in it.
But even the iTunes store isn't perfect. Video side has major issues with timings, quality, pricing. Metadata for everything sucks.
ITunes Match has some serious hiccups with dropping cover art etc.
Some of it is stuff they could fix if the copyright holders would get their heads out of their butts. Others just need Apple to do it and hopefully they are.
Find my iPhone is already available on the web. When you log into your account at iCloud.com
The more I think about it, you could mount the NavTeq equipment on a Segway and map the grounds and the inside of campuses, malls, office buildings...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
You introduced it when you said that one can't reasonable decide if something is better or worse if it can't be exactly quantified. I'll make sure to use your lameduck argument the next time to blindly claim Apple is ahead of some other company/ I'll likely agree with you that they are but I'll expect you to exactly quantify the unquantifiable as you try to use the Android/Windows user's argument as to why Apple's products are just hype when they can list spec sheet items that have had for years in a very poor form compared to a much better experience Apple usually gets right out of the gate.
So, you aren't able to back up your assertion about how much better Google Maps is, so you thought you'd try a little context shifting to distract from that?
If you want to argue subjective issues, that's fine, just don't pretend they are objective.
Mmm... Apple bought C3 the company that currently provides 3-D mapping information to Nokia... Mmmmm....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
If we are going to fault Apple for anything it's for not starting their mapping service sooner, not because Google started their first or because Google is looking out for its own best interest.
When Steve returned to Apple they were in serious financial trouble, and even after he guided the company back to a financial success he was always concerned about having enough cash to prevent any crisis like that from occurring again. In the spirit of conservative expenditures they acquired Placebase and Poly9 which were rather "C" grade mapping companies when they probably should have been looking at some of the top tier companies at the time when Tele Atlas and Navateq were still available. Now there are no more companies like that available except perhaps Tom Tom, Geo Eye, and Yelp. In my opinion, they really should have spent a couple billion more at the time instead of being so conservative.
Unfortunately, some of us predate any available training in computer science. My first exposure to computers was in 1956 -- the IBM 305 RAMAC. My first programming instruction was in 1957 on the IBM 650 computer. My first job programming was in 1960 on the IBM 1401. My first job teaching programming was in 1963 on the IBM 1410.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
How in the hell can anyone claim that Google has no advantage over Apple mapping when Apple doesn't even have a web-based mapping presence?
This is probably the biggest advantage Google has over Apple in mapping. Through their web based maps, millions of people are plotting POIs, writing reviews, and adding businesses to the maps data set. Google also has all of its search data to bring to bear and integrate with their mapping solution. Those are some very powerful tools that Apple just doesn't have anything close to matching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
But even the iTunes store isn't perfect.
None of it's going to be perfect. It's the internet.
This flak against Apple is now reaching ridiculous extremes. Way out of proportion. Other notable players can barely get a mobile platform off the ground - or are failing completely, never mind getting to enjoy the luxury of having a maps app as the biggest mark against it.
I've provided clear examples where Google Maps is better than the week old Apple Maps. You're choosing to put your head up your ass by ignoring the various ways that Google is ahead of Apple right now. You make Apple and fans of Apple look bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
OK so Google is in the hardware business via MM acquisition. Point conceded. But does anyone really think Google purchased MM because they wanted to get into the hardware business? The Nexus 7 tablet was done in partnership with Asus and Google claims they're not making any profit off it (not sure how much Asus is).
Personally I don't think Google has much interest in the hardware side of things either, but that doesn't mean I'm correct. They could absolutely have future plans involving new hardware and products unrelated to smartphones that no one here is privy to.
Unfortunately for Google and other competitors, maps makes up only a small part of a comprehensive mobile ecosystem.
The attempt to paint the iOS ecosystem (which is currently without peer) as somehow flawed because a map app still needs some work, is laughable. It goes to show just how far the also-rans and their shills will go to fight Apple's mindshare.