I only have my experience to go from. I'm not concerned with meta-analysis. So far my experience has been that Apple maps has been pretty good. Turn by turn navigation and basically the same features without Street view makes Apple's map product a win for me.
I thought I would miss SigAlert features, but that is not a dealbreaker for me. It has some more accurate information about traffic though, even without the pretty colors.
I travel extensively in the SF BA and haven't had a grossly missed address yet. Google maps was usually off by one or two places, too.
In my final analysis, iOS maps is just fine. No problem here. Move along.
And, this is the proper comparison, Apple Maps on iOS vs Google Maps on iOS, not Apple Maps against features that were never going to come using Google Maps on iOS.
ok so when do journalist have enough of this Maps shortcomings of Apple? The CEO issued a public apology already and promised to rectify the issue, why not give it a rest for Christsake!
Turn your attention to Romney's balls if you don't have other newsworthy items to report. How about "Romney had strapped his nuts atop the roof of his car and drove with it for 12 hours". Now that's news!
Google would need nothing sinister in their app to track users. Once you submit the location to Google they can simply gather all that on the back end.
I have only heard rumours of Google having an app ready, which was followed by rumours that Google doesn't have an app ready. There are several reasons Google might not want an app. 1) There app might just be shit so it will just weaken the way the masses feel right now. 2) They have had web-based maps for a long time now and will even have StreetView in them shortly. 3) Anything to helps make Apple Maps look like less of an issue for iDevice users hurts Google so they might simply hold off for now.
Then there's 4) Google would be providing their map data directly to users, Apple would not be acting as a middleman and licensing it.
iOS users will no longer be subsidising the Android version with more features unless they choose to download a Google provided App, Google will have to find other ways to monetize it.
Criticism of Apple may be overboard but substantial criticism is due. iOS 6 maps and other problems are worthy of criticism. My concern is this is symptomatic of problems generally at Apple, obvious flaws like we've witnessed with iOS 6 and apps, and scratching of the aluminum in the iPhone 5 should never have made it out the door and certainly not made it past user testing.
QC is lacking, and is underappreciated at Apple now. Cook and clan, being spreadsheet guys, are likely competent in and concerned only with what they know -- the financials. Cook and clan would likely be quite adequate in companies like Pepsi and Coke, maybe even great. But at Apple, they are dooming the company to mediocrity in record time. Cook is a Sculley look-alike.
Good thing I bought Apple at 60. I fully expect Apple's stock and sales to drop significantly in the coming months unless Cook and clan realize they don't have a clue.
Apple cannot apologize or advertise their way out of this; the shine is off this apple now.
You are mistaken on just about every comment you made. Sure Apple is not above criticism, but to suggest that hat they deserve "substantial" criticism starts to wreak of typical iHater rhetoric. Just how many of the 5 million ip[hones last week were scratched? forbes reported a few dozen... It was a small isolated instance that I am sure was addressed and rectified promptly. QC at Apple is not lacking, they are the top of consumer satisfaction surveys and will continue to hold that position for a long time to come. Cook and Clan? what the hell is that supposed to mean? You sound like a troll, and an iHater, or maybe just a typical droid dork by the tone of your post.
Apple are doomed to mediocrity huh? Is that what their sales numbers and satisfaction surveys say? Guess again, iThink you need to step back and take a deep breathe before you post such ridiculous ill-informed comments again.
By the way, Apple is shining like never before and it keeps getting brighter. We all wish Steve Jobs was still here to enjoy the wonderful devices and products Apple are introducing, If he were here I am sure he would be smiling knowing that Apple are diminishing goofles presence on their awesome iDevices.
Please tell us how Google's maps is so much better than iOS apps is now. Because other than Streetview I'm not seeing it. Even then Streetview was a pain in the ass to use on iOS 5 and lower anyway. So it doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned. But that's just me.
The two major features I used Google Maps on iOS for was their excellent aerial views and transit schedules. I can still use both of those features in the web version so it is no big deal.
Obviously Apple maps lacks both of those things. Their imagery is vastly inferior. I'm not sure about the transit schedules from a possible third party as I have not looked further into the matter. I did however notice that even the Apple Retail Store in my area was incorrectly mapped to their old location from a few years ago. You would think if it was truly ready for launch they would have at least verified that their own stores were correctly mapped.
I have navigation built into my autos so I didn't need that feature.
Have you tried doing the analysis yourself? Can you prove that Apple Maps isn't significantly worse than Google Maps?
Should be fairly easy to do a meta-analysis via Google though.
I have, and Apple maps and bing maps are more accurate, I have posted evidence of it in other threads. O fcourse I am jsut a small samplle but the fact remains, goofle is wrong and the other maps are right.
Please tell us how Google's maps is so much better than iOS apps is now. Because other than Streetview I'm not seeing it. Even then Streetview was a pain in the ass to use on iOS 5 and lower anyway. So it doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned. But that's just me.
Really? This has been in the news since the first reviews broke a week ago last Tuesday(?) and you can only recall hearing about Street View? You've seen nothing about buildings on campuses or complete neighborhood data? How about there being no web-based version of Apple Maps? How in the hell can anyone claim that Google has no advantage over Apple mapping when Apple doesn't even have a web-based mapping presence?
They really need to appoint a manager for every country/reign of the world so that they can guarantee everything is correct. If they had such a manager reviewing the map of the UK it wouldn't take them long to realise that the mapping data is not ready yet. It's not just a few things either, it's about 40% wrong and is embarrassing. They don't even seem to know what the primary routes are in the UK.
They also need to add the UK road colour system as it's a very difficult to tell what is a Motorway and what is a just an A road. Motorways have very different regulations and restrictions to primary A-roads which is why they are clearly marked as blue lines, primary A roads are green normal A and B roads are yellow and minor routes are white. It's not a trial matter we need to know what the main routes are!
Am I the only one who thinks the NYT's version of journalism consists of kicking a man when he's down. I have to roll my eyes with each new "unnamed source"
No, you aren't the only one. Someone high up at the New York Times clearly doesn't like Apple. For at least the past year, they have timed negative articles to appear right around product launches and earnings releases (e.g. the exposés on working conditions, hyping up the Broadway play that turned out to be a fabrication).
Really? This has been in the news since the first reviews broke a week ago last Tuesday(?) and you can only recall hearing about Street View? You've seen nothing about buildings on campuses or complete neighborhood data? How about there being no web-based version of Apple Maps? How in the hell can anyone claim that Google has no advantage over Apple mapping when Apple doesn't even have a web-based mapping presence?
So, exactly how big is Google's advantage? Quantify it. Globally. Otherwise, all we have are anecdotal tales about this and that. If one is going to claim that Google's maps are "so much better", I think one ought to quantify "so much". Otherwise, how do we know "so much" isn't "a little" or even "sometimes better, sometimes worse, depending on the data one looks at"?
Remember, the so called "antennagate" issue was "in the news" following the iPhone 4 launch and turned out to not to be such a big deal after all.
So, exactly how big is Google's advantage? Quantify it. Globally. Otherwise, all we have are anecdotal tales about this and that. If one is going to claim that Google's maps are "so much better", I think one ought to quantify "so much". Otherwise, how do we know "so much" isn't "a little" or even "sometimes better, sometimes worse, depending on the data one looks at"?
Do you think Mac OS X is better than Windows? If so, then quantify it? See how stupid that request is? I can judge better and worse between two things without having to generate an spreadsheet that shows the exact quantity of its difference.
You want some quantification? Based on a scale from 0 to 1:
Has a street level view: Google = 1, Apple = 0
Has web presence: Google = 1, Apple = 0
There you go: 2 to 0.
Let's reverse the scenario. Lets say that Apple has had the mapping for years and Google has recently gotten into it just last week replaced their Android Maps app using the Apple Maps back-end with their own. Now lets say that you see that when you share a link it will still open up in Apple Maps on the web because Google has no web presence for their maps. Are you going to say that you'd not call out Google for still relying on Apple and not point out that Google's mapping simple isn't a complete? Of course you would!
What a joke. But when that maps gets up and running it will be amazing. Besides Google is using info form the united states government. This is such a non issues .
Do you think Mac OS X is better than Windows? If so, then quantify it? See how stupid that request is? I can judge better and worse between two things without having to generate an spreadsheet that shows the exact quantity of its difference.
You want some quantification? Based on a scale from 0 to 1:
Has a street level view: Google = 1, Apple = 0
Has web presence: Google = 1, Apple = 0
There you go: 2 to 0.
sells your information to highest bidder
google = 1, Apple = 0
has the roads mislabeled and addresses incorrectly place by 1000 feet in my neighborhood
Do you think Mac OS X is better than Windows? If so, then quantify it? See how stupid that request is? I can judge better and worse between two things without having to generate an spreadsheet that shows the exact quantity of its difference.
You want some quantification? Based on a scale from 0 to 1:
Has a street level view: Google = 1, Apple = 0
Has web presence: Google = 1, Apple = 0
There you go: 2 to 0.
If I told you OS X is "so much" better than Windows, you should ask me to quantify it.
Has turn by turn directions: Apple = 1, Google = 0 (Google didn't offer this on iOS)
Has flyover view, Apple = 1, Google = 0
There you go: 2 to 2
So, using your logic they are equal.
But, you're dodging the question. The question was about the quality of the mapping data, not feature parity.
Have you tried doing the analysis yourself? Can you prove that Apple Maps isn't significantly worse than Google Maps?
Should be fairly easy to do a meta-analysis via Google though.
I'm not the one making the claim that Apple's Maps are inferior. The people making that claim have the burden of proof.
But, if you wish, I used Apple Maps to find 5 addresses. Each one gave me the same location as Google Maps. Therefore, my 'analysis' is that Apple Maps is perfect.
Prove me wrong.
I'm really not sure that the "prove it or you are wrong" argument adds very much to the discussion.
iOS maps is being compared to the de facto existing standard(s), and while it is very difficult to make a broad quantitative comparison, that does not invalidate sharing examples and comparing notes. Even ignoring stuff like flyover v. streetview, which is partly personal preference, it seems likely that a lot of hot air is being blown about how terrible iOS maps are, but on the other hand, numerous actual examples have been produced that show old and incomplete data. There is really not much more that anyone can do except compare individual instances, but if the counter-argument, that Google's data also has plenty of errors, is correct, then there should be ample evidence in the form of examples that iOS gets correct and Google gets wrong. I haven't found any such cases in my area, and I've looked quite extensively so that I could report errors in the iOS maps, but others may have excellent examples where iOS maps are better. I'd like to hear about those for balance.
If I told you OS X is "so much" better than Windows, you should ask me to quantify it.
Has turn by turn directions: Apple = 1, Google = 0 (Google didn't offer this on iOS)
Has flyover view, Apple = 1, Google = 0
There you go: 2 to 2
So, using your logic they are equal.
And you're well within your right to ignore features that don't matter to you when you create your opinion and how it's a benefit or detriment to your needs. I've clearly said what features I miss but that I'm glad Apple has made the move for the common reasons stated in every fucking thread.
You can, as I have, make a rational and informed decision as to why you are willing to forego certain features in favour of other features but it is pathetic to take a feature you once expected in a maps app or enjoyed and go all sour grapes on it simply because it's no longer part of the package.
But, you're dodging the question. The question was about the quality of the mapping data, not feature parity.
No, the issue is about the entity of Apple's mapping service, which includes every aspect of its usability.
PS: You still haven't quantified in the way you think is "reasonable" why OS X is better or worse than Windows.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy
I only have my experience to go from. I'm not concerned with meta-analysis. So far my experience has been that Apple maps has been pretty good. Turn by turn navigation and basically the same features without Street view makes Apple's map product a win for me.
I thought I would miss SigAlert features, but that is not a dealbreaker for me. It has some more accurate information about traffic though, even without the pretty colors.
I travel extensively in the SF BA and haven't had a grossly missed address yet. Google maps was usually off by one or two places, too.
In my final analysis, iOS maps is just fine. No problem here. Move along.
And, this is the proper comparison, Apple Maps on iOS vs Google Maps on iOS, not Apple Maps against features that were never going to come using Google Maps on iOS.
ok so when do journalist have enough of this Maps shortcomings of Apple? The CEO issued a public apology already and promised to rectify the issue, why not give it a rest for Christsake!
Turn your attention to Romney's balls if you don't have other newsworthy items to report. How about "Romney had strapped his nuts atop the roof of his car and drove with it for 12 hours". Now that's news!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Google would need nothing sinister in their app to track users. Once you submit the location to Google they can simply gather all that on the back end.
I have only heard rumours of Google having an app ready, which was followed by rumours that Google doesn't have an app ready. There are several reasons Google might not want an app. 1) There app might just be shit so it will just weaken the way the masses feel right now. 2) They have had web-based maps for a long time now and will even have StreetView in them shortly. 3) Anything to helps make Apple Maps look like less of an issue for iDevice users hurts Google so they might simply hold off for now.
Then there's 4) Google would be providing their map data directly to users, Apple would not be acting as a middleman and licensing it.
iOS users will no longer be subsidising the Android version with more features unless they choose to download a Google provided App, Google will have to find other ways to monetize it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman
Criticism of Apple may be overboard but substantial criticism is due. iOS 6 maps and other problems are worthy of criticism. My concern is this is symptomatic of problems generally at Apple, obvious flaws like we've witnessed with iOS 6 and apps, and scratching of the aluminum in the iPhone 5 should never have made it out the door and certainly not made it past user testing.
QC is lacking, and is underappreciated at Apple now. Cook and clan, being spreadsheet guys, are likely competent in and concerned only with what they know -- the financials. Cook and clan would likely be quite adequate in companies like Pepsi and Coke, maybe even great. But at Apple, they are dooming the company to mediocrity in record time. Cook is a Sculley look-alike.
Good thing I bought Apple at 60. I fully expect Apple's stock and sales to drop significantly in the coming months unless Cook and clan realize they don't have a clue.
Apple cannot apologize or advertise their way out of this; the shine is off this apple now.
You are mistaken on just about every comment you made. Sure Apple is not above criticism, but to suggest that hat they deserve "substantial" criticism starts to wreak of typical iHater rhetoric. Just how many of the 5 million ip[hones last week were scratched? forbes reported a few dozen... It was a small isolated instance that I am sure was addressed and rectified promptly. QC at Apple is not lacking, they are the top of consumer satisfaction surveys and will continue to hold that position for a long time to come. Cook and Clan? what the hell is that supposed to mean? You sound like a troll, and an iHater, or maybe just a typical droid dork by the tone of your post.
Apple are doomed to mediocrity huh? Is that what their sales numbers and satisfaction surveys say? Guess again, iThink you need to step back and take a deep breathe before you post such ridiculous ill-informed comments again.
By the way, Apple is shining like never before and it keeps getting brighter. We all wish Steve Jobs was still here to enjoy the wonderful devices and products Apple are introducing, If he were here I am sure he would be smiling knowing that Apple are diminishing goofles presence on their awesome iDevices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych_guy
Please tell us how Google's maps is so much better than iOS apps is now. Because other than Streetview I'm not seeing it. Even then Streetview was a pain in the ass to use on iOS 5 and lower anyway. So it doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned. But that's just me.
The two major features I used Google Maps on iOS for was their excellent aerial views and transit schedules. I can still use both of those features in the web version so it is no big deal.
Obviously Apple maps lacks both of those things. Their imagery is vastly inferior. I'm not sure about the transit schedules from a possible third party as I have not looked further into the matter. I did however notice that even the Apple Retail Store in my area was incorrectly mapped to their old location from a few years ago. You would think if it was truly ready for launch they would have at least verified that their own stores were correctly mapped.
I have navigation built into my autos so I didn't need that feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Have you tried doing the analysis yourself? Can you prove that Apple Maps isn't significantly worse than Google Maps?
Should be fairly easy to do a meta-analysis via Google though.
I have, and Apple maps and bing maps are more accurate, I have posted evidence of it in other threads. O fcourse I am jsut a small samplle but the fact remains, goofle is wrong and the other maps are right.
The New York Times?! Nobody reads that rag anymore.
Really? This has been in the news since the first reviews broke a week ago last Tuesday(?) and you can only recall hearing about Street View? You've seen nothing about buildings on campuses or complete neighborhood data? How about there being no web-based version of Apple Maps? How in the hell can anyone claim that Google has no advantage over Apple mapping when Apple doesn't even have a web-based mapping presence?
They also need to add the UK road colour system as it's a very difficult to tell what is a Motorway and what is a just an A road. Motorways have very different regulations and restrictions to primary A-roads which is why they are clearly marked as blue lines, primary A roads are green normal A and B roads are yellow and minor routes are white. It's not a trial matter we need to know what the main routes are!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775
Am I the only one who thinks the NYT's version of journalism consists of kicking a man when he's down. I have to roll my eyes with each new "unnamed source"
No, you aren't the only one. Someone high up at the New York Times clearly doesn't like Apple. For at least the past year, they have timed negative articles to appear right around product launches and earnings releases (e.g. the exposés on working conditions, hyping up the Broadway play that turned out to be a fabrication).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Really? This has been in the news since the first reviews broke a week ago last Tuesday(?) and you can only recall hearing about Street View? You've seen nothing about buildings on campuses or complete neighborhood data? How about there being no web-based version of Apple Maps? How in the hell can anyone claim that Google has no advantage over Apple mapping when Apple doesn't even have a web-based mapping presence?
So, exactly how big is Google's advantage? Quantify it. Globally. Otherwise, all we have are anecdotal tales about this and that. If one is going to claim that Google's maps are "so much better", I think one ought to quantify "so much". Otherwise, how do we know "so much" isn't "a little" or even "sometimes better, sometimes worse, depending on the data one looks at"?
Remember, the so called "antennagate" issue was "in the news" following the iPhone 4 launch and turned out to not to be such a big deal after all.
Do you think Mac OS X is better than Windows? If so, then quantify it? See how stupid that request is? I can judge better and worse between two things without having to generate an spreadsheet that shows the exact quantity of its difference.
You want some quantification? Based on a scale from 0 to 1:
Has web presence: Google = 1, Apple = 0
There you go: 2 to 0.
Let's reverse the scenario. Lets say that Apple has had the mapping for years and Google has recently gotten into it just last week replaced their Android Maps app using the Apple Maps back-end with their own. Now lets say that you see that when you share a link it will still open up in Apple Maps on the web because Google has no web presence for their maps. Are you going to say that you'd not call out Google for still relying on Apple and not point out that Google's mapping simple isn't a complete? Of course you would!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
How in the hell can anyone claim that Google has no advantage over Apple mapping when Apple doesn't even have a web-based mapping presence?
What does the lack of a web-based mapping service have to do with this?
But when that maps gets up and running it will be amazing. Besides Google is using info form the united states government. This is such a non issues .
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Do you think Mac OS X is better than Windows? If so, then quantify it? See how stupid that request is? I can judge better and worse between two things without having to generate an spreadsheet that shows the exact quantity of its difference.
You want some quantification? Based on a scale from 0 to 1:
Has a street level view: Google = 1, Apple = 0
Has web presence: Google = 1, Apple = 0
There you go: 2 to 0.
sells your information to highest bidder
google = 1, Apple = 0
has the roads mislabeled and addresses incorrectly place by 1000 feet in my neighborhood
google = 1, Apple = 0
thats 4 - 0 !!! what a dubious record
keep going, i like this....
What do web-based maps have to do with using maps on the web? That's what you're asking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Do you think Mac OS X is better than Windows? If so, then quantify it? See how stupid that request is? I can judge better and worse between two things without having to generate an spreadsheet that shows the exact quantity of its difference.
You want some quantification? Based on a scale from 0 to 1:
Has a street level view: Google = 1, Apple = 0
Has web presence: Google = 1, Apple = 0
There you go: 2 to 0.
If I told you OS X is "so much" better than Windows, you should ask me to quantify it.
Has turn by turn directions: Apple = 1, Google = 0 (Google didn't offer this on iOS)
Has flyover view, Apple = 1, Google = 0
There you go: 2 to 2
So, using your logic they are equal.
But, you're dodging the question. The question was about the quality of the mapping data, not feature parity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Have you tried doing the analysis yourself? Can you prove that Apple Maps isn't significantly worse than Google Maps?
Should be fairly easy to do a meta-analysis via Google though.
I'm not the one making the claim that Apple's Maps are inferior. The people making that claim have the burden of proof.
But, if you wish, I used Apple Maps to find 5 addresses. Each one gave me the same location as Google Maps. Therefore, my 'analysis' is that Apple Maps is perfect.
Prove me wrong.
I'm really not sure that the "prove it or you are wrong" argument adds very much to the discussion.
iOS maps is being compared to the de facto existing standard(s), and while it is very difficult to make a broad quantitative comparison, that does not invalidate sharing examples and comparing notes. Even ignoring stuff like flyover v. streetview, which is partly personal preference, it seems likely that a lot of hot air is being blown about how terrible iOS maps are, but on the other hand, numerous actual examples have been produced that show old and incomplete data. There is really not much more that anyone can do except compare individual instances, but if the counter-argument, that Google's data also has plenty of errors, is correct, then there should be ample evidence in the form of examples that iOS gets correct and Google gets wrong. I haven't found any such cases in my area, and I've looked quite extensively so that I could report errors in the iOS maps, but others may have excellent examples where iOS maps are better. I'd like to hear about those for balance.
And you're well within your right to ignore features that don't matter to you when you create your opinion and how it's a benefit or detriment to your needs. I've clearly said what features I miss but that I'm glad Apple has made the move for the common reasons stated in every fucking thread.
You can, as I have, make a rational and informed decision as to why you are willing to forego certain features in favour of other features but it is pathetic to take a feature you once expected in a maps app or enjoyed and go all sour grapes on it simply because it's no longer part of the package.
No, the issue is about the entity of Apple's mapping service, which includes every aspect of its usability.
PS: You still haven't quantified in the way you think is "reasonable" why OS X is better or worse than Windows.