An interesting aside, Panasonic recently announced they would no longer be making TVs but would instead be focusing their LCD factories to make panels for tablets, explicitly stating they would like to make the Apple's tablet screens. I'm personally not worried about the loss of Samsung's expertise.
Samsung has best display technology. This is really bad for Apple. But I think it is basicly a ploy by Samsung to discuss better terms for their patent dispute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Mmm… I question both of these.
The fact is that Apple used superior Samsung displays years back for a goooood reason, so I question your questions.
And don't give me the "Apple designed it" crap. Because Samsung was the only company that could pull this off (also - for a good price).
If that was not the case ask your self; why Apple didn't ditch Samsung before, like one year or two years ago?
To both sides ... It's not convincingly clear that other companies have the capacity right now to fill the void if Samsung no longer manufactures screens for them. It is also not clear that Samsung can replace the revenue by selling "internally".
The fact is that Apple used superior Samsung displays years back for a goooood reason, so I question your questions.
And don't give me the "Apple designed it" crap. Because Samsung was the only company that could pull this off (al
Quote:
so - for a good price).
If that was not the case ask your self; why Apple didn't ditch Samsung before, like one year or two years ago?
I think you've got this backwards, its Apple that has been leaving Samsung, not the other way round. Quality may have been "the good" reason that Samsung was Apple's main supplier but I would have thought that scale and overall production capacity were the more likely reasons as long as certain quality targets were met.
Well, Apple wasn't just going after Samsung Mobile.. It was going after Samsung Electronics, as a whole..
yes it was but Samsung Eloctronics that was very clear that they were going to Firewall the lawsuits from their supply business. Guess they've changed their minds.
Honestly this is not a bad thing for either company. Apple can go away fro msamung because of samsung supposedly stealing tech and samsung can get away from apple and open up their plants to other people. Samsung has other companies it can get business from. We have to see if apple can get the quality from multiple companies making their displays vs having just samsung.
I dont think this is *insert company here* is doomed for any of the companies.
To both sides ... It's not convincingly clear that other companies have the capacity right now to fill the void if Samsung no longer manufactures screens for them. It is also not clear that Samsung can replace the revenue by selling "internally".
I think it is clear that capacity can be purchased and built. Perhaps not overnight and certainly it will cause a disruption for Apple, but how large that disruption will be and for how long is debatable. What isn't a question is that Apple can assist other vendors in increasing their capacity. Samsung's gamble on their internal puchasing needs being able to offset losing Apple is a much bigger gamble. You can guarantee that capacity will eventually be met, you cannot guarantee that demand will increase.
Funny how all these news stories position this as "Samsung dropping Apple". When in reality Apple has brought LG, Sharp and Japan Display (consortium which includes Sony) online in volume over the last year. With Panasonic waiting in the wings
Apple accounted for 10% of Samsung's total sales this year. All that is going away
It's more like 4.6% last year. Apple's component sales accounts for only $7B of Samsung Electronic's $150B revenue in 2011 - not a fatal hit, especially considering 40%-50% growth in Samsung mobile's revenue/profit.
As the biggest threat to Apple, who sells 100% of what they can manufacture, is not being able to manufacture in great numbers, I would say this is not only bad for Samsung.
What is Apple's and Samsung's contract? Can Samsung unilaterally breach the contract with Apple? Didn't Apple pour money into Samsung just so it could build Apple products? Depending on these answers, this action could the start of lawsuits of death between these companies.
Honestly this is not a bad thing for either company. Apple can go away fro msamung because of samsung supposedly stealing tech and samsung can get away from apple and open up their plants to other people. Samsung has other companies it can get business from. We have to see if apple can get the quality from multiple companies making their displays vs having just samsung.
I dont think this is *insert company here* is doomed for any of the companies.
Yes: all those companies who don't mind having their intellectual property stolen.
What is Apple's and Samsung's contract? Can Samsung unilaterally breach the contract with Apple? Didn't Apple pour money into Samsung just so it could build Apple products? Depending on these answers, this action could the start of lawsuits of death between these companies.
From what I understand Apple's investment in Samsung was pretty insignificant, $100M. You have to remember that Samsung routinely spends billions to build / upgrade their manufacturing plants - or $41B in 2012 alone.
It's more like 4.6% last year. Apple's component sales accounts for only $7B of Samsung Electronic's $150B revenue in 2011 - not a fatal hit, especially considering 40%-50% growth in Samsung mobile's revenue/profit.
learn to read an annual report, that total is for all businesses which includes cell phone and TV and appliances which is the largest portion of their business, Phone alone made up about 40% of the revenue. The portion that Apple is buying from is a smaller part of the total business, however they bring in some of the largest margin $ for Samsung. Actual Apple and Samsung are about the same size in revenue, but Apple brings home more $ to the bank, which means Apple has higher margins and to Samsung part more per part then the other competitors. WIthout Apple Samsung can not fill factories and the competitor who are all in the race to the bottom are not willing to pay the same price as Apple nor make the investment upfront like Apple has done.
So the lost of $7B in component and display business is going to be a big hit to Samsung bottom line. They are right now running around trying to convince other companies to do business with them. Grant Google is right there trying to fill the void Apple is leaving but Google is not a hardware company, so they want to give it away.
From what I understand Apple's investment in Samsung was pretty insignificant, $100M. You have to remember that Samsung routinely spends billions to build / upgrade their manufacturing plants - or $41B in 2012 alone.
They just spent $3.6 bil to build a fab in Austin for A5 that now has to find another purpose.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareimage
Samsung has best display technology. This is really bad for Apple. But I think it is basicly a ploy by Samsung to discuss better terms for their patent dispute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Mmm… I question both of these.
The fact is that Apple used superior Samsung displays years back for a goooood reason, so I question your questions.
And don't give me the "Apple designed it" crap. Because Samsung was the only company that could pull this off (also - for a good price).
If that was not the case ask your self; why Apple didn't ditch Samsung before, like one year or two years ago?
Anyway:
Was about freaking time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That risk to them, you mean?
To both sides ... It's not convincingly clear that other companies have the capacity right now to fill the void if Samsung no longer manufactures screens for them. It is also not clear that Samsung can replace the revenue by selling "internally".
Quote:
The fact is that Apple used superior Samsung displays years back for a goooood reason, so I question your questions.
And don't give me the "Apple designed it" crap. Because Samsung was the only company that could pull this off (al
Quote:
so - for a good price).
If that was not the case ask your self; why Apple didn't ditch Samsung before, like one year or two years ago?
I think you've got this backwards, its Apple that has been leaving Samsung, not the other way round. Quality may have been "the good" reason that Samsung was Apple's main supplier but I would have thought that scale and overall production capacity were the more likely reasons as long as certain quality targets were met.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
Well, Apple wasn't just going after Samsung Mobile.. It was going after Samsung Electronics, as a whole..
yes it was but Samsung Eloctronics that was very clear that they were going to Firewall the lawsuits from their supply business. Guess they've changed their minds.
Honestly this is not a bad thing for either company. Apple can go away fro msamung because of samsung supposedly stealing tech and samsung can get away from apple and open up their plants to other people. Samsung has other companies it can get business from. We have to see if apple can get the quality from multiple companies making their displays vs having just samsung.
I dont think this is *insert company here* is doomed for any of the companies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbinger
To both sides ... It's not convincingly clear that other companies have the capacity right now to fill the void if Samsung no longer manufactures screens for them. It is also not clear that Samsung can replace the revenue by selling "internally".
I think it is clear that capacity can be purchased and built. Perhaps not overnight and certainly it will cause a disruption for Apple, but how large that disruption will be and for how long is debatable. What isn't a question is that Apple can assist other vendors in increasing their capacity. Samsung's gamble on their internal puchasing needs being able to offset losing Apple is a much bigger gamble. You can guarantee that capacity will eventually be met, you cannot guarantee that demand will increase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak
Funny how all these news stories position this as "Samsung dropping Apple". When in reality Apple has brought LG, Sharp and Japan Display (consortium which includes Sony) online in volume over the last year. With Panasonic waiting in the wings
Apple accounted for 10% of Samsung's total sales this year. All that is going away
It's more like 4.6% last year. Apple's component sales accounts for only $7B of Samsung Electronic's $150B revenue in 2011 - not a fatal hit, especially considering 40%-50% growth in Samsung mobile's revenue/profit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz
As the biggest threat to Apple, who sells 100% of what they can manufacture, is not being able to manufacture in great numbers, I would say this is not only bad for Samsung.
What is Apple's and Samsung's contract? Can Samsung unilaterally breach the contract with Apple? Didn't Apple pour money into Samsung just so it could build Apple products? Depending on these answers, this action could the start of lawsuits of death between these companies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzN1337c0d3r
Then the manager started looking up the display manufacturers in his store system and managed to find me a Samsung with no IR.
There is no way to use the in-store system to find out which display is in each box. The manufacturing system, yes, the sales system, no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG
One thing I know is that Apple won't compete with Samsung on Washer/Dryer combos.
Oh I don't know... I think Apple hung Samsung out to dry because their "relationship" is all washed up!
(sorry just had to)
/
/
Yes: all those companies who don't mind having their intellectual property stolen.
Talk about biting off your nose to spite your face!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc54
Talk about biting off your nose to spite your face!!
Is that even possible?
Originally Posted by Evilution
Is that even possible?
Well, if Samsung can sell to itself and expect to make a profit, anything's possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman
What is Apple's and Samsung's contract? Can Samsung unilaterally breach the contract with Apple? Didn't Apple pour money into Samsung just so it could build Apple products? Depending on these answers, this action could the start of lawsuits of death between these companies.
From what I understand Apple's investment in Samsung was pretty insignificant, $100M. You have to remember that Samsung routinely spends billions to build / upgrade their manufacturing plants - or $41B in 2012 alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
It's more like 4.6% last year. Apple's component sales accounts for only $7B of Samsung Electronic's $150B revenue in 2011 - not a fatal hit, especially considering 40%-50% growth in Samsung mobile's revenue/profit.
learn to read an annual report, that total is for all businesses which includes cell phone and TV and appliances which is the largest portion of their business, Phone alone made up about 40% of the revenue. The portion that Apple is buying from is a smaller part of the total business, however they bring in some of the largest margin $ for Samsung. Actual Apple and Samsung are about the same size in revenue, but Apple brings home more $ to the bank, which means Apple has higher margins and to Samsung part more per part then the other competitors. WIthout Apple Samsung can not fill factories and the competitor who are all in the race to the bottom are not willing to pay the same price as Apple nor make the investment upfront like Apple has done.
So the lost of $7B in component and display business is going to be a big hit to Samsung bottom line. They are right now running around trying to convince other companies to do business with them. Grant Google is right there trying to fill the void Apple is leaving but Google is not a hardware company, so they want to give it away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo
So, who owns the IP to the Retina display?
Apple owns specific patents relating to certain aspects of their displays, but you can't patent a display resolution or PPI number.
As an aside, HTC is releasing a 5 inch 1080p display phone... 440 ppi...
Good! Apple don't need no stinkin' Samsung!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk
From what I understand Apple's investment in Samsung was pretty insignificant, $100M. You have to remember that Samsung routinely spends billions to build / upgrade their manufacturing plants - or $41B in 2012 alone.
They just spent $3.6 bil to build a fab in Austin for A5 that now has to find another purpose.