The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world after Japan lowered theirs 2 years ago. If I had to pay those kind of rates I'd avoid it also, especially when the US government is one of the least efficient and most fiscally wasteful governments around. Quit punishing businesses for success so you can go on spending sprees to buy votes.
I couldn't agree more. Election spending has jumped from 2 billion last year to 6 billion this year. It's disgusting. The last thing we need to do is feed the beast!
Furthermore, these are FOREIGN profits. Apple pays its taxes in the US. All of its design, R&D, etc is done here. Its employees pay taxes here. It pays property taxes and generates sales tax revenue here - all over the country. Why is the US government entitled to a huge chunk of Apple's foreign earnings? Just because they are based in the US?
Why bring foreign cash home if it is going to be spent overseas? Why bring the money home to be taxed if it's going to then go back?
Other countries could tax Apple more. Why don't they?
The rules are the same for every company and their accountants follow them to minimize taxes. If you have any complaints, complain to those other countries.
This is tax on Foreign profits -- isn't it likely that Apple PAID TAX in those other nations?
Does any accountant have knowledge of how this works? I'd hate to be suckered into another "hate Apple" for doing what all the other corporations are doing. Last month it was "hate Apple because they pay 5% in taxes" -- which is wrong. But then their competitors are paying 2% and some are paying nothing at all.
We have to change the rules that apply to all large corporations -- they pay far too little now.
Why bring foreign cash home if it is going to be spent overseas? Why bring the money home to be taxed if it's going to then go back?
I actually think Apple wants to bring that cash home to invest here. But they're going to get a big bite taken out of their ass when they do it, they'll find other places and ways to invest it. Who can blame them. Good for them.
The problem isn't Apple. The problem is the US Tax code.
Actually the problem is that tax systems have not rebalanced based on globalization having happened.
Starbucks in the UK are a spectacular example of this. They have paid less than 1% corporation tax on GBP3bn of sales since 1998 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19967397) vs. a main rate of 24%. They've done that by effectively making themselves "unprofitable" in the UK due to the extremely high price they pay their coffee supplier. The fact that their coffee supplier happens to be another part of Starbucks, conveniently located in Luxembourg which has extremely low corporate tax rates, is somewhat convenient.
Now, it appears what they are doing is legal, so I actually say, good on them. This notion of paying what is "moral" or is within "the spirit of the law" is rubbish. Personally, I'm never going to pay a penny more than what I'm absolutely legally required to pay. If the government want me to pay more, change the law so that I have to (and deal with the consequence that I may not vote for you next time as a result).
That does not however mean what they are doing is fair. They have been able to create themselves a competitive advantage purely because they are a huge company. However, our political leaders need to change the laws to make it fair.
I feel the same about Apple here. I don't consider it fair that they've paid so little in tax, but I don't consider it immoral that they have. If they've done nothing illegal - fair play to them. If we don't think what they are doing is right, change the laws so they can't do that anymore.
Many of these problems are born of the fact that we have political leaders with no backbone. It's far easier to kick up a stink that what corporations are doing is immoral than it is for them to do something which may be unpopular - i.e. make the law work so that people have to pay taxes.
The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world after Japan lowered theirs 2 years ago. If I had to pay those kind of rates I'd avoid it also, especially when the US government is one of the least efficient and most fiscally wasteful governments around. Quit punishing businesses for success so you can go on spending sprees to buy votes.
Get it right, votes are bought with donated money not taxes lol
Another reason the manufacturing will never come back to the US. Apple most likely uses that foreign cash to pay for all the manufacturing essentially money laundering it and sending the finished goods back to the states which they then resell to get their money into the country without paying any additional taxes.
And they don't pay any taxes on the profits from the sale of those goods, right? The sale of those goods generates no sales tax either, right?
I was going to mention that but they only pay taxes on half of it, the profit. The end user pays the sales tax in states that have sales tax.
Please change the title to "Apple LEGALLY paid in taxes"
Anyone that doesn't do what they can to legally minimize their tax liability is simply ignorant. All of you would do the EXACT same thing too.
I work as a software contractor. As such, I'm self employed and could use any number of tax avoidance schemes. I don't though. I earn decent money and so does my partner. The problem is that no-one lives in isolation. Investing in the people around us ultimately makes life better for our families. Sure, that extra money might buy a better car or a longer holiday but it's not going to dramatically change my life. I'd prefer to see lower crime, better schools and better healthcare.
I'd rather be thankful for what I've got than jealous of what I don't. I've been lucky in life, others haven't.
So you can guess that I'm pretty much in favour of Apple paying significantly more tax. It's down to the governments to change the law though. That's unlikely to happen when it's the people in power who benefit from weak tax avoidance laws.
But, hey, I'm not going to change anyone's mind, am I? That's not how Internet political debates work.
The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world after Japan lowered theirs 2 years ago. If I had to pay those kind of rates I'd avoid it also, especially when the US government is one of the least efficient and most fiscally wasteful governments around. Quit punishing businesses for success so you can go on spending sprees to buy votes.
There is no bigger scam going in the United States than owning a corporation. You can write-off all sorts of stuff: cars, offices, computers, trips, clothing, tools, raw materials...assuming you have revenue, of course. NOBODY pays that corporate tax rate you reference. My company doesn't. We pay very little in taxes due to all these deductions.
The corporate share of all taxes paid in the U.S. is 20% of what it was 50 years ago. I think that's bad, because it means more money has to be shouldered by the middle-class, who can't afford it.
Apple is a U.S. corporation, and ALL of its profits (worldwide) should be taxed as income to that U.S. corporation, no matter how Apple has structured its phantom corporations in Ireland and The Netherlands to minimize its taxes. Of course, that will never happen, because Apple is lobbying to make sure its taxes go down, not up.
That makes them no different than any other company in the Fortune 500. That's how our laws and tax code allow them to act.
That said, have you seen what Apple's tax rate is in the U.S.? It's like 27%! Apple is paying a phenomenal amount of money in taxes because they're making an incredible amount of money in profits. That makes me happy to support them, but I still wish they wouldn't lobby to lower their taxes.
The defense that "all corporations do it" isn't good enough. Apple should be a cut above, not running with the crowd.
Oh and the US government runs out of our money all the time hence the trillions of dollars in debt. As far as how much? I don't know. Go by gadget size, iPhone 5 is 4%, iPad is 9.7% and so forth. That's just as arbitrary as anything else and no I'm not serious.
There is no bigger scam going in the United States than owning a corporation. You can write-off all sorts of stuff: cars, offices, computers, trips, clothing, tools, raw materials...assuming you have revenue, of course. NOBODY pays that corporate tax rate you reference. My company doesn't. We pay very little in taxes due to all these deductions.
While I wouldn't call it a "scam," you are basically right. The more you tax profits, the less profit there will be. The profit will be made to "disappear" in any number of ways. You've listed a few ways that happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon
Apple is a U.S. corporation, and ALL of its profits (worldwide) should be taxed as income to that U.S. corporation, no matter how Apple has structured its phantom corporations in Ireland and The Netherlands to minimize its taxes.
Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon
That said, have you seen what Apple's tax rate is in the U.S.? It's like 27%! Apple is paying a phenomenal amount of money in taxes because they're making an incredible amount of money in profits. That makes me happy to support them, but I still wish they wouldn't lobby to lower their taxes.
The defense that "all corporations do it" isn't good enough. Apple should be a cut above, not running with the crowd.
Comments
I couldn't agree more. Election spending has jumped from 2 billion last year to 6 billion this year. It's disgusting. The last thing we need to do is feed the beast!
Furthermore, these are FOREIGN profits. Apple pays its taxes in the US. All of its design, R&D, etc is done here. Its employees pay taxes here. It pays property taxes and generates sales tax revenue here - all over the country. Why is the US government entitled to a huge chunk of Apple's foreign earnings? Just because they are based in the US?
Other countries could tax Apple more. Why don't they?
The rules are the same for every company and their accountants follow them to minimize taxes. If you have any complaints, complain to those other countries.
This is tax on Foreign profits -- isn't it likely that Apple PAID TAX in those other nations?
Does any accountant have knowledge of how this works? I'd hate to be suckered into another "hate Apple" for doing what all the other corporations are doing. Last month it was "hate Apple because they pay 5% in taxes" -- which is wrong. But then their competitors are paying 2% and some are paying nothing at all.
We have to change the rules that apply to all large corporations -- they pay far too little now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh
Why bring foreign cash home if it is going to be spent overseas? Why bring the money home to be taxed if it's going to then go back?
I actually think Apple wants to bring that cash home to invest here. But they're going to get a big bite taken out of their ass when they do it, they'll find other places and ways to invest it. Who can blame them. Good for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner
We have to change the rules that apply to all large corporations -- they pay far too little now.
Really? How much "should" they pay?
The problem isn't Apple. The problem is the US Tax code.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
The problem isn't Apple. The problem is the US Tax code.
Actually the problem is that tax systems have not rebalanced based on globalization having happened.
Starbucks in the UK are a spectacular example of this. They have paid less than 1% corporation tax on GBP3bn of sales since 1998 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19967397) vs. a main rate of 24%. They've done that by effectively making themselves "unprofitable" in the UK due to the extremely high price they pay their coffee supplier. The fact that their coffee supplier happens to be another part of Starbucks, conveniently located in Luxembourg which has extremely low corporate tax rates, is somewhat convenient.
Now, it appears what they are doing is legal, so I actually say, good on them. This notion of paying what is "moral" or is within "the spirit of the law" is rubbish. Personally, I'm never going to pay a penny more than what I'm absolutely legally required to pay. If the government want me to pay more, change the law so that I have to (and deal with the consequence that I may not vote for you next time as a result).
That does not however mean what they are doing is fair. They have been able to create themselves a competitive advantage purely because they are a huge company. However, our political leaders need to change the laws to make it fair.
I feel the same about Apple here. I don't consider it fair that they've paid so little in tax, but I don't consider it immoral that they have. If they've done nothing illegal - fair play to them. If we don't think what they are doing is right, change the laws so they can't do that anymore.
Many of these problems are born of the fact that we have political leaders with no backbone. It's far easier to kick up a stink that what corporations are doing is immoral than it is for them to do something which may be unpopular - i.e. make the law work so that people have to pay taxes.
Get it right, votes are bought with donated money not taxes lol
Plus Apple doesn't make the laws!
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyx
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Another reason the manufacturing will never come back to the US. Apple most likely uses that foreign cash to pay for all the manufacturing essentially money laundering it and sending the finished goods back to the states which they then resell to get their money into the country without paying any additional taxes.
And they don't pay any taxes on the profits from the sale of those goods, right? The sale of those goods generates no sales tax either, right?
I was going to mention that but they only pay taxes on half of it, the profit. The end user pays the sales tax in states that have sales tax.
Should be more than 2%. Btw there's a flaw in your signature, all governments use other people's money not just socialist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Should be more than 2%.
2.1%? 2.2%? How much? Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Btw there's a flaw in your signature
No there isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
all governments use other people's money not just socialist.
Yes, the US has the highest corporate tax rates in the world, but theres enough loopholes so that companies like GE essentially pay nothing.
I work as a software contractor. As such, I'm self employed and could use any number of tax avoidance schemes. I don't though. I earn decent money and so does my partner. The problem is that no-one lives in isolation. Investing in the people around us ultimately makes life better for our families. Sure, that extra money might buy a better car or a longer holiday but it's not going to dramatically change my life. I'd prefer to see lower crime, better schools and better healthcare.
I'd rather be thankful for what I've got than jealous of what I don't. I've been lucky in life, others haven't.
So you can guess that I'm pretty much in favour of Apple paying significantly more tax. It's down to the governments to change the law though. That's unlikely to happen when it's the people in power who benefit from weak tax avoidance laws.
But, hey, I'm not going to change anyone's mind, am I? That's not how Internet political debates work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebudda
The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world after Japan lowered theirs 2 years ago. If I had to pay those kind of rates I'd avoid it also, especially when the US government is one of the least efficient and most fiscally wasteful governments around. Quit punishing businesses for success so you can go on spending sprees to buy votes.
There is no bigger scam going in the United States than owning a corporation. You can write-off all sorts of stuff: cars, offices, computers, trips, clothing, tools, raw materials...assuming you have revenue, of course. NOBODY pays that corporate tax rate you reference. My company doesn't. We pay very little in taxes due to all these deductions.
The corporate share of all taxes paid in the U.S. is 20% of what it was 50 years ago. I think that's bad, because it means more money has to be shouldered by the middle-class, who can't afford it.
Apple is a U.S. corporation, and ALL of its profits (worldwide) should be taxed as income to that U.S. corporation, no matter how Apple has structured its phantom corporations in Ireland and The Netherlands to minimize its taxes. Of course, that will never happen, because Apple is lobbying to make sure its taxes go down, not up.
That makes them no different than any other company in the Fortune 500. That's how our laws and tax code allow them to act.
That said, have you seen what Apple's tax rate is in the U.S.? It's like 27%! Apple is paying a phenomenal amount of money in taxes because they're making an incredible amount of money in profits. That makes me happy to support them, but I still wish they wouldn't lobby to lower their taxes.
The defense that "all corporations do it" isn't good enough. Apple should be a cut above, not running with the crowd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
I work as a software contractor. As such, I'm self employed and could use any number of tax avoidance schemes. I don't though.
Too bad for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
The problem is that no-one lives in isolation. Investing in the people around us ultimately makes life better for our families.
No one would stop you from making those "investments."
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
I'd prefer to see lower crime, better schools and better healthcare.
Then why would you give that money to the State for goodness sake?!?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
I'd rather be thankful for what I've got than jealous of what I don't.
Good for you. We all should have that attitude. That doesn't have anything to do with paying taxes though.
Oh and the US government runs out of our money all the time hence the trillions of dollars in debt. As far as how much? I don't know. Go by gadget size, iPhone 5 is 4%, iPad is 9.7% and so forth. That's just as arbitrary as anything else and no I'm not serious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon
There is no bigger scam going in the United States than owning a corporation. You can write-off all sorts of stuff: cars, offices, computers, trips, clothing, tools, raw materials...assuming you have revenue, of course. NOBODY pays that corporate tax rate you reference. My company doesn't. We pay very little in taxes due to all these deductions.
While I wouldn't call it a "scam," you are basically right. The more you tax profits, the less profit there will be. The profit will be made to "disappear" in any number of ways. You've listed a few ways that happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon
Apple is a U.S. corporation, and ALL of its profits (worldwide) should be taxed as income to that U.S. corporation, no matter how Apple has structured its phantom corporations in Ireland and The Netherlands to minimize its taxes.
Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon
That said, have you seen what Apple's tax rate is in the U.S.? It's like 27%! Apple is paying a phenomenal amount of money in taxes because they're making an incredible amount of money in profits. That makes me happy to support them, but I still wish they wouldn't lobby to lower their taxes.
The defense that "all corporations do it" isn't good enough. Apple should be a cut above, not running with the crowd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Oh and the US government runs out of our money all the time hence the trillions of dollars in debt.
a) That's still someone else's money.
b) They'll eventually run out of that too.