Whether it's a TV or AIO, I've found that if you want decent sound, you need external speakers. My M-Audio AV40 speakers more than make up for any deficiency in the built in speakers. :-)
Nice config, but I truly believe some are better off, cheaper off, with a Mac Pro. Gosh, I'm starting to sound like a Mac Pro advocate, but if you're thinking it'll last you 'a couple of years' I might be right in the end.
I've been using a notebook as my primary machine for nearly 15 years so going to a desktop is a big step for me. A Mac Pro might be better but then I'd have to wait for that revision next year plus the new Apple Thunderbolt Displays, which I assume will be thin on the edges and will be announced with new AirPorts alongside the next Mac Pro (or whatever they call it).
Still, sol, sir, enjoy your Mac. It's quite possible you'll post even quicker once its arrived! It does look incredibly cool and I will definitely take a thorough look at it at my local Apple Store.
Forgot to ask: how much tax are we talking about? And will you get that back on selling the 2x4GB RAM sticks?
I just checked and the taxes are estimated at $199.49 which turns out to be 7.8% sales tax. [edit: Bad calculation on my first post]
edit2: I won't be selling the other RAM sticks. Maybe I could get $25 or $30 for them on Craig's List but that seems like more trouble than it's worth to sell them. I bet I'll come across someone that could use an upgrade from 4GB to 8GB and just give them away.
PS: Forgot that I'd also pay $119 for the 3 year AppleCare on the iMac which I think will help the resale value when I sell it after 2 years.
These guys just won't give up. So we'll call this "ODD-Gate"?
Maybe "speakergate"?? Better yet - "BassGate"??
The ODD is exactly where it belongs for most people. Gone. In my case, it's in a small box, in the cabinet where it stays for 51.99 weeks out of the year. I don't want as few mechanical (i.e. break-prone) components in my iMac.
ODD is a has-been that's outlived its usefulness. Everyone knows it, you most likely do too. Buy a cheapo external while you still can. Someday, those will be antiquated too.
Glad you're so happy. You're not the only person in the world, you know. DVDs still by far outsell downloaded movies. But since you run the world, I guess that's all out the window.
Glad you're so happy. You're not the only person in the world, you know. DVDs still by far outsell downloaded movies. But since you run the world, I guess that's all out the window.
What relevance does that have to anything since DVD is more commonly played via an appliance or console in an HEC, not on a notebook or desktop PC. If you really want to play 720x480 MPEG-2 files on a 2560x1440 display then you certainly can but don't imply that is why people are buying Macs or how they prefer to watch their DVDs.
As for actual views streaming video far exceeds DVD video views. There is a reason Netflix, YouTube, Amazon, Hulu and iTunes Store are all thriving while Hollywood Video and Blockbuster are out of business.
Glad you're so happy. You're not the only person in the world, you know. DVDs still by far outsell downloaded movies. But since you run the world, I guess that's all out the window.
No, he doesn't run the world, but neither do you. Apple made a decision to drop the ODD. I suspect that they are better at knowing what the market needs than you are.
An external drive is available if you need it. If you absolutely need an internal drive, buy last year's model or buy something else. If you're right and most people need ODD, then Apple will lose most of their iMac business and will have to backtrack. I'm not holding my breath, though.
Whether it's a TV or AIO, I've found that if you want decent sound, you need external speakers. My M-Audio AV40 speakers more than make up for any deficiency in the built in speakers. :-)
Agreed. I haven't used the internal speakers on any of my desktop computers for at least 15 years. On my laptops, I use the internal speakers, but never to listen seriously to music. I don't think it's an unreasonable tradeoff. It's not hard to find inexpensive external speakers that are far better than even the best internal ones.
Agreed. I haven't used the internal speakers on any of my desktop computers for at least 15 years. On my laptops, I use the internal speakers, but never to listen seriously to music. I don't think it's an unreasonable tradeoff. It's not hard to find inexpensive external speakers that are far better than even the best internal ones.
This is true but people like creating "gates" with Apple so now we get speaker gate, Based apparently on one review. I'd be curious to know how many people use the built in speakers with their flat screen TV vs a receiver with speakers and subwoofer. My guess is more people do the latter.
I totally agree. What is this obsession with thinness? What's the point? The user sits in front of the computer! What does it matter if it's 1/4", 1/2", or 1" thick?
I think that compromising features just to get it thinner is not a good idea. Plus, I have never been a big fan of the thermal design of the last generation of iMacs. Those iMacs seem to have a higher failure rate than that of past machines. I know a number of people that have internal hard drive failures, plus motherboards seem to go bad more than usual. The graphics chip freaks out and stops working properly. These types of failures are often due to long-term thermal stress.
Did you ever push one of those iMac hard for a while and then feel how HOT the exhaust air is across the top? That just stresses everything out.
Besides the visual attraction to style, there are other more "practical" reasons.
The thinness also allows for:
A lighter product. Why should you care? Lighter means less fuel resources, and less costs to ship product from factory to your door.
A smaller package. Meaning more can be squeezed into a given space. One can ship more product in the same space. Again, less shipping, less fuel, less costs.
Less materials. Thinner means less metal. Less metal means less resources used.
Or is it all supposed to be only about you??
I push my iMac hard at times to get the heat up. Yes it gets hot. Then, afterwards it cools down. What's your point? Should Apple design their products in the assumption that it will be running at 100% full load the entire time? That's not realistic. They found a good balance I think.
Finally, please provide more insight on these supposed motherboard, hard drive, GPU failures that happen in iMacs, especially your implication that it is caused by this so-called heat issues that "Stresses everything out". This is a first to me.
I've purchased way too many iMacs to count for numerous clients and none of them have ever exhibited the kind of issues that you're describing. Obviously, system issues arise, but in my case all the iMacs I purchased have never failed at all. They are built like tanks.
Forgot that I'd also pay $119 for the 3 year AppleCare on the iMac which I think will help the resale value when I sell it after 2 years.
Ah ok, you're thinking on selling it after 2 years. That does change my view a bit as you're quite likely to get a reasonably good price. Thanks for all the info, appreciate it.
Agreed. I haven't used the internal speakers on any of my desktop computers for at least 15 years. On my laptops, I use the internal speakers, but never to listen seriously to music. I don't think it's an unreasonable tradeoff. It's not hard to find inexpensive external speakers that are far better than even the best internal ones.
I'm fine with the speakers on the iMac. If I was into desktop gaming, I'd probably spring for some Bose speakers. It's funny that even in 2012, reviewers of big screen HDTVs pan them for the small speakers. Does anyone buy a huge 65" LCD and then settle for the built ins? Even a cheap Bose 3-speaker surround system improves the experience tremendously!
I'm fine with the speakers on the iMac. If I was into desktop gaming, I'd probably spring for some Bose speakers. It's funny that even in 2012, reviewers of big screen HDTVs pan them for the small speakers. Does anyone buy a huge 65" LCD and then settle for the built ins? Even a cheap Bose 3-speaker surround system improves the experience tremendously!
I'm fine with the speakers on the iMac. If I was into desktop gaming, I'd probably spring for some Bose speakers. It's funny that even in 2012, reviewers of big screen HDTVs pan them for the small speakers. Does anyone buy a huge 65" LCD and then settle for the built ins? Even a cheap Bose 3-speaker surround system improves the experience tremendously!
Exactly! You're buying a computer not a sound system! Since when were built-in speakers supposed to be anything more than adequate for people that don't need or want decent sounding audio?
You can't go past the B&W MM-1s in my opinion! They look and sound amazing for their size and price.
Exactly! You're buying a computer not a sound system! Since when were built-in speakers supposed to be anything more than adequate for people that don't need or want decent sounding audio?You can't go past the B&W MM-1s in my opinion! They look and sound amazing for their size and price.
I sprung for the B&W Zeppelin speaker (pre AirPlay, unfortunately). There was a manufacturing recall that B&W was only too happy to fix (they even paid shipping both ways, but wow....try to pack heavy, delicate, football-shaped speakers). I have never heard such beautiful sound from a speaker. Or maybe my brain knows I paid $700+ and it's protecting me from constant buyer's remorse......
What's the point in making compromises in functionality - poor bass response, lack of ODD - on a desktop machine just to make it thinner around the edges? A desktop machine doesn't need to be thinner.
Where will it all end? Soon they'll remove every component and you'll be left with a pane of glass on a stand!
Actually that would open up newer use cases. This change was largely aesthetic. Reducing it to a pane of glass would grant further potential in terms of embedded uses. I've always felt design changes should be driven by functionality. Being able to place something anywhere in your house and move it around is functionally different from something which must remain in place. Right now you can't push it further back. It can't exist anywhere it couldn't previously. That aspect of the design is just a gimmick because of this. Apple has become sort of the poster child for anorexia nervosa.
Looks like the glass is glued to the chassis. Have to use a heat gun and very carefully pry it off with heavy suction cups. Bad news for anyone planning to do their own upgrades.
<p id="user_yui_3_7_3_1_1354334192048_643" style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18.200000762939453px;">Looks like the glass is glued to the chassis. Have to use a heat gun and very carefully pry it off with heavy suction cups. Bad news for anyone planning to do their own upgrades.</p>
I'm told that iFixit picked up their 21.5" iMac today so we should get a confirmation on that soon enough.
Comments
Apple store tells me your config is $2749. Did you use a discount through AI?
Whether it's a TV or AIO, I've found that if you want decent sound, you need external speakers. My M-Audio AV40 speakers more than make up for any deficiency in the built in speakers. :-)
I've been using a notebook as my primary machine for nearly 15 years so going to a desktop is a big step for me. A Mac Pro might be better but then I'd have to wait for that revision next year plus the new Apple Thunderbolt Displays, which I assume will be thin on the edges and will be announced with new AirPorts alongside the next Mac Pro (or whatever they call it).
Is that a good thing? I'm not so sure. lol
I just checked and the taxes are estimated at $199.49 which turns out to be 7.8% sales tax. [edit: Bad calculation on my first post]
edit2: I won't be selling the other RAM sticks. Maybe I could get $25 or $30 for them on Craig's List but that seems like more trouble than it's worth to sell them. I bet I'll come across someone that could use an upgrade from 4GB to 8GB and just give them away.
PS: Forgot that I'd also pay $119 for the 3 year AppleCare on the iMac which I think will help the resale value when I sell it after 2 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoJimu
Decent-sounding speakers need depth. Looks like form wins out over function this time.
No all-in-one sounds good enough - add external speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
These guys just won't give up. So we'll call this "ODD-Gate"?
Maybe "speakergate"?? Better yet - "BassGate"??
The ODD is exactly where it belongs for most people. Gone. In my case, it's in a small box, in the cabinet where it stays for 51.99 weeks out of the year. I don't want as few mechanical (i.e. break-prone) components in my iMac.
ODD is a has-been that's outlived its usefulness. Everyone knows it, you most likely do too. Buy a cheapo external while you still can. Someday, those will be antiquated too.
Glad you're so happy. You're not the only person in the world, you know. DVDs still by far outsell downloaded movies. But since you run the world, I guess that's all out the window.
What relevance does that have to anything since DVD is more commonly played via an appliance or console in an HEC, not on a notebook or desktop PC. If you really want to play 720x480 MPEG-2 files on a 2560x1440 display then you certainly can but don't imply that is why people are buying Macs or how they prefer to watch their DVDs.
As for actual views streaming video far exceeds DVD video views. There is a reason Netflix, YouTube, Amazon, Hulu and iTunes Store are all thriving while Hollywood Video and Blockbuster are out of business.
edit: Correction: Blockbuster Video is still in business. It was bought out by Dish Network in 2011. Good for them!
No, he doesn't run the world, but neither do you. Apple made a decision to drop the ODD. I suspect that they are better at knowing what the market needs than you are.
An external drive is available if you need it. If you absolutely need an internal drive, buy last year's model or buy something else. If you're right and most people need ODD, then Apple will lose most of their iMac business and will have to backtrack. I'm not holding my breath, though.
Agreed. I haven't used the internal speakers on any of my desktop computers for at least 15 years. On my laptops, I use the internal speakers, but never to listen seriously to music. I don't think it's an unreasonable tradeoff. It's not hard to find inexpensive external speakers that are far better than even the best internal ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David291
I totally agree. What is this obsession with thinness? What's the point? The user sits in front of the computer! What does it matter if it's 1/4", 1/2", or 1" thick?
I think that compromising features just to get it thinner is not a good idea. Plus, I have never been a big fan of the thermal design of the last generation of iMacs. Those iMacs seem to have a higher failure rate than that of past machines. I know a number of people that have internal hard drive failures, plus motherboards seem to go bad more than usual. The graphics chip freaks out and stops working properly. These types of failures are often due to long-term thermal stress.
Did you ever push one of those iMac hard for a while and then feel how HOT the exhaust air is across the top? That just stresses everything out.
Besides the visual attraction to style, there are other more "practical" reasons.
The thinness also allows for:
A lighter product. Why should you care? Lighter means less fuel resources, and less costs to ship product from factory to your door.
A smaller package. Meaning more can be squeezed into a given space. One can ship more product in the same space. Again, less shipping, less fuel, less costs.
Less materials. Thinner means less metal. Less metal means less resources used.
Or is it all supposed to be only about you??
I push my iMac hard at times to get the heat up. Yes it gets hot. Then, afterwards it cools down. What's your point? Should Apple design their products in the assumption that it will be running at 100% full load the entire time? That's not realistic. They found a good balance I think.
Finally, please provide more insight on these supposed motherboard, hard drive, GPU failures that happen in iMacs, especially your implication that it is caused by this so-called heat issues that "Stresses everything out". This is a first to me.
I've purchased way too many iMacs to count for numerous clients and none of them have ever exhibited the kind of issues that you're describing. Obviously, system issues arise, but in my case all the iMacs I purchased have never failed at all. They are built like tanks.
Ah ok, you're thinking on selling it after 2 years. That does change my view a bit as you're quite likely to get a reasonably good price. Thanks for all the info, appreciate it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Agreed. I haven't used the internal speakers on any of my desktop computers for at least 15 years. On my laptops, I use the internal speakers, but never to listen seriously to music. I don't think it's an unreasonable tradeoff. It's not hard to find inexpensive external speakers that are far better than even the best internal ones.
I'm fine with the speakers on the iMac. If I was into desktop gaming, I'd probably spring for some Bose speakers. It's funny that even in 2012, reviewers of big screen HDTVs pan them for the small speakers. Does anyone buy a huge 65" LCD and then settle for the built ins? Even a cheap Bose 3-speaker surround system improves the experience tremendously!
It seems silly to me too.
I'm fine with the speakers on the iMac. If I was into desktop gaming, I'd probably spring for some Bose speakers. It's funny that even in 2012, reviewers of big screen HDTVs pan them for the small speakers. Does anyone buy a huge 65" LCD and then settle for the built ins? Even a cheap Bose 3-speaker surround system improves the experience tremendously!
Exactly! You're buying a computer not a sound system! Since when were built-in speakers supposed to be anything more than adequate for people that don't need or want decent sounding audio?You can't go past the B&W MM-1s in my opinion! They look and sound amazing for their size and price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf
Exactly! You're buying a computer not a sound system! Since when were built-in speakers supposed to be anything more than adequate for people that don't need or want decent sounding audio?You can't go past the B&W MM-1s in my opinion! They look and sound amazing for their size and price.I sprung for the B&W Zeppelin speaker (pre AirPlay, unfortunately). There was a manufacturing recall that B&W was only too happy to fix (they even paid shipping both ways, but wow....try to pack heavy, delicate, football-shaped speakers). I have never heard such beautiful sound from a speaker. Or maybe my brain knows I paid $700+ and it's protecting me from constant buyer's remorse......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius
What's the point in making compromises in functionality - poor bass response, lack of ODD - on a desktop machine just to make it thinner around the edges? A desktop machine doesn't need to be thinner.
Where will it all end? Soon they'll remove every component and you'll be left with a pane of glass on a stand!
Actually that would open up newer use cases. This change was largely aesthetic. Reducing it to a pane of glass would grant further potential in terms of embedded uses. I've always felt design changes should be driven by functionality. Being able to place something anywhere in your house and move it around is functionally different from something which must remain in place. Right now you can't push it further back. It can't exist anywhere it couldn't previously. That aspect of the design is just a gimmick because of this. Apple has become sort of the poster child for anorexia nervosa.
Looks like the glass is glued to the chassis. Have to use a heat gun and very carefully pry it off with heavy suction cups. Bad news for anyone planning to do their own upgrades.
I'm told that iFixit picked up their 21.5" iMac today so we should get a confirmation on that soon enough.