Over priced how? I can't seem to find any other 13" notebook with 200+ PPI IPS display to compare it with. Or do you mean that it's more than you were willing to pay?
Overprice compare to Apple own 15" RMBP... look at the specs, you almost have to be a fool the buy the 13" at $1700. Makes a bit more sense at 1500$
This is nothing new folks. Same thing happened w/ MBA. Believe it or not, there isn't anything that really compares to these with the Retina display.Two obvious reasons for lower pricing. First being components get cheaper and second being they'll wanting to phase out the "old" MBP style. The second was an always but waiting for the first to happen.
1) You repeat that it has no GPU in a clear reference to an iGPU but then conclude by suggesting people wait for the next iGPU. If the 4000 doesn't suit you why will you be satisfied with the 5000? What about it will make a world of difference after you've stated. "I still think you need a GPU to drive that resolution, so its not a PC for either gaming or serious video/photo editing."
2) As someone who has been using 13" MBPs, 13" MBs, and 12" PBs for a very long time I can say I've never cared about the GPU performance so long as it drives the display for my needs. I am not a gamer nor a video or photo editor. If I was I certainly wouldn't want a 13" notebook as my primary PC. Note the 12" PB had a dGPU but there is no way I'd trade that for the iGPUs that came in the Intel machines.
I meant the 13" RMBP should have a discreet GPU like the GT 650m. But at $1500, the same machine with an intel Haswell CPU w/HD5000 would be decent since its 2.5 times faster than the HD4000. Still no gaming machine, but at least it would be able to run old games or do photo editing without choking.
The 13" RMBP is a broken product to me, its as a major GPU bottleneck that makes the machine useless for anything other than web browsing and desktop apps. Its a very expensive facebook laptop.
Overprice compare to Apple own 15" RMBP... look at the specs, you almost have to be a fool the buy the 13" at $1700. Makes a bit more sense at 1500$
1) The 13" RMBP starts at $1,500 and the 15' RMBP at $2,199. Frankly I'm surprised the prices are so cheap considering the jump for about 110 PPI TN panels to 220 PPI IPS panels. Look at what HP charged for their DreamColor IPS displays. $550 just for that add on and it wasn't Retina.
edit: Here is the comparison between the non-Retina and Retina 13' MBPs
13-inch: 2.5GHz
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
4GB 1600MHz memory
500GB 5400-rpm hard drive
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Built-in battery (7 hours)
$1,199.00
13-inch: 2.5GHz
with Retina display
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1600MHz memory
128GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Built-in battery (7 hours)
$1,499.00
$300 more for a Retina IPS display, SSD, and double the RAM, not to mention the weight and size reduction If anything is overpriced it sounds like it's the old style MBPs in comparison to the new.
2) You're completely ignoring the desire for the 13" over the 15" when you call people are fools for getting the smaller machine. This isn't the same as the difference between a small and medium Coke at the movies.
Over priced how? I can't seem to find any other 13" notebook with 200+ PPI IPS display to compare it with. Or do you mean that it's more than you were willing to pay?
How about the Acer Aspire S7? List is $1399, but it's commonly available for under $1300. There's also the Asus Zenbook Prime (UX31A) at $1399 list price. There may be others. That was just a quick search.
Great example of Apples "damned if you, damned if you don't" position. Best product and best margins? That just means they are over priced! Drop the price when the tech is slowly made cheaper? See, they weren't selling! Stock will drop!
I swear to god if Apple announced they had perfected Siri in a star trek like interface and announced the culmination of a top secret project the give you 250 times today's laptop CPU power now available in watch form with full artificial intelligence and voice control but with a 3D projected interface alla minority report if you didn't feel like speaking to your wrist, with a 2 week battery and solar recharging, on sale today $25, people would bitch that Apple hates 3rd party keyboard makers.then the stock would drop 15% because they would now be out of innovative ideas.
I'm waiting for a GPU bump before pulling the trigger on a 15" MBPr. My 2010 MBP is still going strong (mostly thanks to the SSD I upgraded it to).
Agreed. I'm no engineer, but a GPU update seems more complicated than using a newer revision of the same CPU model. At least for the rMBPs and their current Woz-style double-resolution-downscaled hack.
How about the Acer Aspire S7? List is $1399, but it's commonly available for under $1300. There's also the Asus Zenbook Prime (UX31A) at $1399 list price. There may be others. That was just a quick search.
How are those the same? I know that Acer uses an IPS display and AnandTech said it was a great machine, for Acer, but t's not Retina and the MSRP on the Acer is $1650.
1) The 13" RMBP starts at $1,500 and the 15' RMBP at $2,199. Frankly I'm surprised the prices are so cheap considering the jump for about 110 PPI TN panels to 220 PPI IPS panels. Look at what HP charged for their DreamColor IPS displays. $550 just for that add on and it wasn't Retina.
edit: Here is the comparison between the non-Retina and Retina 13' MBPs
13-inch: 2.5GHz
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
4GB 1600MHz memory
500GB 5400-rpm hard drive
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Built-in battery (7 hours)
$1,199.00
13-inch: 2.5GHz
with Retina display
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1600MHz memory
128GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Built-in battery (7 hours)
$1,499.00
$300 more for a Retina IPS display, SSD, and double the RAM, not to mention the weight and size reduction If anything is overpriced it sounds like it's the old style MBPs in comparison to the new.
2) You're completely ignoring the desire for the 13" over the 15" when you call people are fools for getting the smaller machine. This isn't the same as the difference between a small and medium Coke at the movies.
Like I said it makes more sense at $1500 than $1700. The specs between the old price $1700 13" rMBP and the $2100 15" rMBP made the 13" a very very bad choice for what you get for youre $. imo it was overprice even for an Apple product.
It looks like they dropped the higher model of the old-style 15" MBP on the US site:
This used to be $1,999. Maybe they'll do the same once stocks of the high-end old 13" run out.
The clock speeds seem a little different. I thought the Retina ones all matched the equivalent lower-end models. The top Retina 13" model has a 2.6GHz i5 whereas the top old-style one has a 2.9GHz i7. Still, nice to see a price drop to get these moving.
Hopefully they'll get the 15" ones down to $1999 and $2499 respectively soon, even if the $2499 model has the slower 2.4GHz processor with 512GB storage and have the 2.7GHz as BTO.
The 2.7GHz processor looks like it was BTO before. Here's a refurb of the old one:
By offering that processor as the default option means you get better specs for the same price rather than a price drop. I think the price drop would have been the better way to go.
This is not a new trend. MacBook Air started off more expensive than it is today, when SSD drives were not as cheap.
Having said that, I do believe the marvels of Retina Display on a laptop are totally under-appreciated. I wish it was available on more Windows laptops, as I need to work on both Windows and Mac OS.
I can think of three ways to run Windows on this Mac off the top of my head.
1. Bootcamp (included, just use a valid Windows license)
2. VMware Fusion
3. Parallels
Bootcamp is the fastest but requires you to reboot to change OS. We use VMware fusion, as well and it provides good performance for productivity apps (it launches a virtual machine like an app)
Hmm...must not have been selling as well as they hoped?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott6666
Frankly, they were overpriced to begin with. This is just a step to returning them to normal Apple pricing.
The price premiums they put in when they first released retina were pretty high.
The 13" model, in particular, was a bit overpriced. If you chose anything but the base configuration, you weren't far off from the price of the 15" Retina. And the 15" Retina is much faster and has a faster video card.
I'm waiting for a GPU bump before pulling the trigger on a 15" MBPr. My 2010 MBP is still going strong (mostly thanks to the SSD I upgraded it to).
I have the 27" imac with the GTX 680mx. The imac has roughly the same resolution as the 15" rMBP. You cant squeeze an mx chip into a laptop, but the 680m would have been a nice optionnal upgrade for the 15" rMBP.
That being said, the GT 650m is still a decent GPU, its no high end gaming GPU like the 680mx, but it will run World of warcraft at "good" settings. At this point in time you a better off waiting for the next refresh indeed.
Like I said it makes more sense at $1500 than $1700. The specs between the old price $1700 13" rMBP and the $2100 15" rMBP made the 13" a very very bad choice for what you get for youre $. imo it was overprice even for an Apple product.
And yet I never would have paid $400 more for a machine that was less portable and less ideal for my needs. If not for my desire to get a new iMac I would have bought a 13" RMBP last year. I've been using iGPUs since i switched from my 12" PB back in 2005(?) and I've never once thought to myself "Gee, I wish TextEdit would render my text faster."
Frankly, they were overpriced to begin with. This is just a step to returning them to normal Apple pricing.
The price premiums they put in when they first released retina were pretty high.
Please. An initial (very high) premium happens with every introduction of a new technology. Every company does it. You either ignored it or have selective amnesia. For example, take a look at the 4TB HDDs against the price of typical 3TB hard drives, the cost per GB is considerably higher. You'd pay at least twice as much for 33% more storage. Tech companies need to do this, to recoup the development cost, and they aren't giving their best away at bargain prices, that's a quick way to die in the tech world.
Apple was doing pretty darn well, the limited supply of iMacs was chiefly holding down their numbers.
How are those the same? I know that Acer uses an IPS display and AnandTech said it was a great machine, for Acer, but t's not Retina and the MSRP on the Acer is $1650.
How is it not "retina-grade"? 1920x1080 IPS display. List price on the Acer according to Amazon is $1399.
How about providing a 16 GM RAM option for the 13" rMBP?
What do you run that requires 16 GB? There are very few power apps running on a 13" laptop that can truly make use of that much memory, unless you are running Windows in Parallels.
I can think of three ways to run Windows on this Mac off the top of my head.
1. Bootcamp (included, just use a valid Windows license)
2. VMware Fusion
3. Parallels
Bootcamp is the fastest but requires you to reboot to change OS. We use VMware fusion, as well and it provides good performance for productivity apps (it launches a virtual machine like an app)
In some instances, my need is not to run Windows on a Mac. My need is a Windows computer.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Over priced how? I can't seem to find any other 13" notebook with 200+ PPI IPS display to compare it with. Or do you mean that it's more than you were willing to pay?
Overprice compare to Apple own 15" RMBP... look at the specs, you almost have to be a fool the buy the 13" at $1700. Makes a bit more sense at 1500$
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Is $200 worth not waiting for 3 months?
1) You repeat that it has no GPU in a clear reference to an iGPU but then conclude by suggesting people wait for the next iGPU. If the 4000 doesn't suit you why will you be satisfied with the 5000? What about it will make a world of difference after you've stated. "I still think you need a GPU to drive that resolution, so its not a PC for either gaming or serious video/photo editing."
2) As someone who has been using 13" MBPs, 13" MBs, and 12" PBs for a very long time I can say I've never cared about the GPU performance so long as it drives the display for my needs. I am not a gamer nor a video or photo editor. If I was I certainly wouldn't want a 13" notebook as my primary PC. Note the 12" PB had a dGPU but there is no way I'd trade that for the iGPUs that came in the Intel machines.
I meant the 13" RMBP should have a discreet GPU like the GT 650m. But at $1500, the same machine with an intel Haswell CPU w/HD5000 would be decent since its 2.5 times faster than the HD4000. Still no gaming machine, but at least it would be able to run old games or do photo editing without choking.
The 13" RMBP is a broken product to me, its as a major GPU bottleneck that makes the machine useless for anything other than web browsing and desktop apps. Its a very expensive facebook laptop.
1) The 13" RMBP starts at $1,500 and the 15' RMBP at $2,199. Frankly I'm surprised the prices are so cheap considering the jump for about 110 PPI TN panels to 220 PPI IPS panels. Look at what HP charged for their DreamColor IPS displays. $550 just for that add on and it wasn't Retina.
edit: Here is the comparison between the non-Retina and Retina 13' MBPs
13-inch: 2.5GHz
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
4GB 1600MHz memory
500GB 5400-rpm hard drive
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Built-in battery (7 hours)
$1,199.00
13-inch: 2.5GHz
with Retina display
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1600MHz memory
128GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Built-in battery (7 hours)
$1,499.00
$300 more for a Retina IPS display, SSD, and double the RAM, not to mention the weight and size reduction If anything is overpriced it sounds like it's the old style MBPs in comparison to the new.
2) You're completely ignoring the desire for the 13" over the 15" when you call people are fools for getting the smaller machine. This isn't the same as the difference between a small and medium Coke at the movies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Over priced how? I can't seem to find any other 13" notebook with 200+ PPI IPS display to compare it with. Or do you mean that it's more than you were willing to pay?
How about the Acer Aspire S7? List is $1399, but it's commonly available for under $1300. There's also the Asus Zenbook Prime (UX31A) at $1399 list price. There may be others. That was just a quick search.
I'm waiting for a GPU bump before pulling the trigger on a 15" MBPr. My 2010 MBP is still going strong (mostly thanks to the SSD I upgraded it to).
This is what I expected...
At least Apple start to clean up their inventories.
I think soon, Apple will release without Retina screen with new body at $1199 and $1799.
I guess that will be part of Intel Haswell CPU update.
Apple should drop Air 11" model as well. Air 13" 128GB SSD should be $1099 starting point.
11" Air has no place to go.. iPad now has 128GB SSD(Wifi+4G) price very close to 11"Air 64GB model.
I swear to god if Apple announced they had perfected Siri in a star trek like interface and announced the culmination of a top secret project the give you 250 times today's laptop CPU power now available in watch form with full artificial intelligence and voice control but with a 3D projected interface alla minority report if you didn't feel like speaking to your wrist, with a 2 week battery and solar recharging, on sale today $25, people would bitch that Apple hates 3rd party keyboard makers.then the stock would drop 15% because they would now be out of innovative ideas.
RichL
I'm waiting for a GPU bump before pulling the trigger on a 15" MBPr. My 2010 MBP is still going strong (mostly thanks to the SSD I upgraded it to).
Agreed. I'm no engineer, but a GPU update seems more complicated than using a newer revision of the same CPU model. At least for the rMBPs and their current Woz-style double-resolution-downscaled hack.
How are those the same? I know that Acer uses an IPS display and AnandTech said it was a great machine, for Acer, but t's not Retina and the MSRP on the Acer is $1650.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
1) The 13" RMBP starts at $1,500 and the 15' RMBP at $2,199. Frankly I'm surprised the prices are so cheap considering the jump for about 110 PPI TN panels to 220 PPI IPS panels. Look at what HP charged for their DreamColor IPS displays. $550 just for that add on and it wasn't Retina.
edit: Here is the comparison between the non-Retina and Retina 13' MBPs
13-inch: 2.5GHz
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
4GB 1600MHz memory
500GB 5400-rpm hard drive
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Built-in battery (7 hours)
$1,199.00
13-inch: 2.5GHz
with Retina display
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1600MHz memory
128GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Built-in battery (7 hours)
$1,499.00
$300 more for a Retina IPS display, SSD, and double the RAM, not to mention the weight and size reduction If anything is overpriced it sounds like it's the old style MBPs in comparison to the new.
2) You're completely ignoring the desire for the 13" over the 15" when you call people are fools for getting the smaller machine. This isn't the same as the difference between a small and medium Coke at the movies.
Like I said it makes more sense at $1500 than $1700. The specs between the old price $1700 13" rMBP and the $2100 15" rMBP made the 13" a very very bad choice for what you get for youre $. imo it was overprice even for an Apple product.
It looks like they dropped the higher model of the old-style 15" MBP on the US site:
This used to be $1,999. Maybe they'll do the same once stocks of the high-end old 13" run out.
The clock speeds seem a little different. I thought the Retina ones all matched the equivalent lower-end models. The top Retina 13" model has a 2.6GHz i5 whereas the top old-style one has a 2.9GHz i7. Still, nice to see a price drop to get these moving.
Hopefully they'll get the 15" ones down to $1999 and $2499 respectively soon, even if the $2499 model has the slower 2.4GHz processor with 512GB storage and have the 2.7GHz as BTO.
The 2.7GHz processor looks like it was BTO before. Here's a refurb of the old one:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0MWALL/A
This page suggests there was a $225 charge for it:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1383882
By offering that processor as the default option means you get better specs for the same price rather than a price drop. I think the price drop would have been the better way to go.
I can think of three ways to run Windows on this Mac off the top of my head.
1. Bootcamp (included, just use a valid Windows license)
2. VMware Fusion
3. Parallels
Bootcamp is the fastest but requires you to reboot to change OS. We use VMware fusion, as well and it provides good performance for productivity apps (it launches a virtual machine like an app)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Hmm...must not have been selling as well as they hoped?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott6666
Frankly, they were overpriced to begin with. This is just a step to returning them to normal Apple pricing.
The price premiums they put in when they first released retina were pretty high.
The 13" model, in particular, was a bit overpriced. If you chose anything but the base configuration, you weren't far off from the price of the 15" Retina. And the 15" Retina is much faster and has a faster video card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
I'm waiting for a GPU bump before pulling the trigger on a 15" MBPr. My 2010 MBP is still going strong (mostly thanks to the SSD I upgraded it to).
I have the 27" imac with the GTX 680mx. The imac has roughly the same resolution as the 15" rMBP. You cant squeeze an mx chip into a laptop, but the 680m would have been a nice optionnal upgrade for the 15" rMBP.
That being said, the GT 650m is still a decent GPU, its no high end gaming GPU like the 680mx, but it will run World of warcraft at "good" settings. At this point in time you a better off waiting for the next refresh indeed.
That's just ridiculous on all levels.
And yet I never would have paid $400 more for a machine that was less portable and less ideal for my needs. If not for my desire to get a new iMac I would have bought a 13" RMBP last year. I've been using iGPUs since i switched from my 12" PB back in 2005(?) and I've never once thought to myself "Gee, I wish TextEdit would render my text faster."
Please. An initial (very high) premium happens with every introduction of a new technology. Every company does it. You either ignored it or have selective amnesia. For example, take a look at the 4TB HDDs against the price of typical 3TB hard drives, the cost per GB is considerably higher. You'd pay at least twice as much for 33% more storage. Tech companies need to do this, to recoup the development cost, and they aren't giving their best away at bargain prices, that's a quick way to die in the tech world.
Apple was doing pretty darn well, the limited supply of iMacs was chiefly holding down their numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
How are those the same? I know that Acer uses an IPS display and AnandTech said it was a great machine, for Acer, but t's not Retina and the MSRP on the Acer is $1650.
How is it not "retina-grade"? 1920x1080 IPS display. List price on the Acer according to Amazon is $1399.
http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S7-391-6810-13-3-Inch-Touchscreen-Ultrabook/dp/B009H2CL1S
You didn't comment at all on the Asus. It's not comparable either?
EDIT: Gotcha now Soli. The PPI works out to around 170 I think, whereas it needs to get to about 215ppi for a laptop to be "retina-grade".
My bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpf1952
How about providing a 16 GM RAM option for the 13" rMBP?
What do you run that requires 16 GB? There are very few power apps running on a 13" laptop that can truly make use of that much memory, unless you are running Windows in Parallels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCentric
I can think of three ways to run Windows on this Mac off the top of my head.
1. Bootcamp (included, just use a valid Windows license)
2. VMware Fusion
3. Parallels
Bootcamp is the fastest but requires you to reboot to change OS. We use VMware fusion, as well and it provides good performance for productivity apps (it launches a virtual machine like an app)
In some instances, my need is not to run Windows on a Mac. My need is a Windows computer.