Apple could really put the hammer down if they released new updated versions of Safari and iWork for Mac and Windows. Millions of iDevices... Another MS cash cow that can easily bit the dust.
But Apple isn't doing it... Sometimes they seem so retarded. Oh well, they can't be perfect, right? They could just recruit more programmers and focus even more on software. I want an upgrade cycle of at least 7 years for my 13" Air 2011, software plays a big part. C'mon Apple.
Never crossed your mind that Apple does know/realise/is aware of something that you don't..?
I want this to come off as a non-nasty response. So, please take it that way.
Can someone explain to me -- a non-office worker -- what the value of Office is? That's all I want to know.
Thanks.
The value with MS Office comes from being able to create formatted documents that can be easily read by other people you might email them to. MS Office's file formats have become the defacto standard over the years. This is primarily due to business and education adopting MS Office as the standard programs everyone in the facility or institution was directed to use.
If you don't use highly formatted text or complex spreadsheets, you can switch to Google Docs, Apple's iWorks, or some of the other programs on the market that allow you to save in Microsoft's Word or Excel formats thereby being able to exchange readable documents with anyone else you may desire.
The pricing changes MS is now instituting may cause many of their customers to change their internal standards to other creation programs. The timing of this move by Microsoft is not a good one, their market clout is currently at a low.
I've heard of that before, but. Company I work for is MS partner, and we do get updates from MS regarding volume licensing, retail and OEM. We almost always receive info before changes actually hit the market.
We haven't received anything yet regarding what is covered in that article.
MS already had OEM/ROK Office that was permanently "attached" to a PC, same as OEM Windows. You still could replace HDD and other parts inside that machine and re-activate Windows and Office if required. If that would happen in less than XY days, you might have to call MS support and ask for activation key. The only question they have ever asked for was "is that the only PC this license of Windows/Office is installed on?".
Doing 180 degrees on a dime? I really don't think so. If they did, I will be really disappointed.
Never crossed your mind that Apple does know/realise/is aware of something that you don't..?
I'm thinking that Apple may be working on something that may allow them to make iWorks more powerful and cross-platform. At least I hope they are.
With their current successes into Microsoft's old solid markets with their iDevices and Macs, they could lure Microsoft's old Office customers to adopt a new standard for all but a few power users.
Microsoft is not choosing a strong time to push their weight around on pricing.
I have been using Pages/Numbers/Keynote since 2008 (almost) exclusively. I consider myself a sophisticated user and have never come across a time where iWork couldn't do what I needed to do. OK, maybe if iWork had better equation support, that'd be nice, but I am really at a loss what more I want it do to.
I sometimes have to work with Office 2013 and it's not a pretty affair. The whole ribbon interface is a disaster. Granted, one could make beautiful documents in MS Word or Pages or even ClarisWorks, but I will argue its whole alot more pleasant and easier with Pages.
Isnt it amusing what type of documents 90% of consumers make with Word? ALL CAPS with whole spacing between lines with the odd clipart. That may be an exageration, but you know what I mean. Man, people have no sense of typography, style, spacing, ..... I better stop this rant before I go on.
You sound like 90% of the people that use computers to draft a document or create a spreadsheet. You don't need the full set of MS Office functions, as do most people. I consider myself a "power user" of MS Office, and yet I've never had to create a calculus equation in a document, have Word make up a table of contents, or any of the hundreds of other things MS Office can do. In fact. MS Office is best used by a university student or professor doing post-graduate work.
I have found that when I begin to use some of the more sophisticated features in MS Office on my Mac is when the program becomes very wonky and most often is likely to crash suddenly. So, even I could likely function quite well with Pages, and maybe even Numbers. Keynote is already a much better program then the Office equivalent, PowerPoint.
All these companies jumping to web-based apps is going to really backfire. THE INTERNET IS NOT UBIQUITOUS!! There are countless times a month I do not have access to the internet. On a plane, when Comcast or Verizon decide to go on the fritz, when traveling in an area not covered by AT&T, or in one of the many WiFi zones where the owner either has a paywall or doesn't know how to set up quick-expiring DHCP leases.
Don't succumb to the online app craze. Ensure you have local versions of all your critical programs. Even now many of our games can't be played without an internet connection either. This is really annoying; many times I want to play but can't connect. And when I get a new iPhone I have to plead with them to allow it to continue games started on the old phone. I shouldn't have to cross my fingers or beg to use my software!!
The value with MS Office comes from being able to create formatted documents that can be easily read by other people you might email them to. MS Office's file formats have become the defacto standard over the years. This is primarily due to business and education adopting MS Office as the standard programs everyone in the facility or institution was directed to use.
If you don't use highly formatted text or complex spreadsheets, you can switch to Google Docs, Apple's iWorks, or some of the other programs on the market that allow you to save in Microsoft's Word or Excel formats thereby being able to exchange readable documents with anyone else you may desire.
The pricing changes MS is now instituting may cause many of their customers to change their internal standards to other creation programs. The timing of this move by Microsoft is not a good one, their market clout is currently at a low.
2013 for Windows and 2011 for Mac can still be had for $9.95 from http://www.microsofthup.com if you are fortunate enough to work for a company that participates in this program.
That site really helps show Microsoft's strategy. Try to keep businesses on Windows by providing all new software offers on Windows only. Hell, they only added Outlook in 2011 as Mac's were stuck with Entourage (load of crap).
My company licenses office for everyone, but since they went to the latest Exchange server version, I happily use Mail and Calendar instead of Outlook. I use iWork for just about everything I need and just save files to Office formats if people need editable copies. Otherwise I just send PDFs anyway.
I really hope Microsoft continues the missteps. The worst software on my Mac is from Microsoft.
My company licenses office for everyone, but since they went to the latest Exchange server version, I happily use Mail and Calendar instead of Outlook. I use iWork for just about everything I need and just save files to Office formats if people need editable copies. Otherwise I just send PDFs anyway.
PDF's is indeed the way to go, for sharing docs. Indeed, if you need to edit them just save as Office format. Most of the formatting remains intact. But I'm sure there are people going to post contradictions to this statement.
I really hope Microsoft continues the missteps.
Somehow I like that as well, just to see their/Ballmers' stupidity. Do hope they stay in the business, just to have a reference point for comparisons. And Ballmer for Life (TM) he makes for good laughs.
Time for Apple to release a revamped version of iWork. Particularly Numbers needs an upgrade badly... More functions and more options. And then I'll say "bye" to the last Microsoft program I still use. Excel is really the best piece of SW Microsoft ever made (ironically it was originally developed for the Mac).
iWork needs more consistency (Pages is full screen mode doesn't have the information button to edit the pages nor the preview of pages, whereas Numbers looks like when it is in window mode).
If only Apple could allow export in the new "x" formats (docx xlsx)... More important, however, is the revamp of Numbers.
I have no idea on whether licensing would work or not for MS, but as someone with Pages and Word on my Office machine I try to use Pages and end up using Word. Just last week I found that inserting a page break will not insert the break for added images. And the adding of images is a mess anyway. Text flow is random.Numbering in Pages is a mess.
This is another strategic mistake by Microsoft. Come back Bill, you are needed. Your wife can handle the charity by herself.
Hey...
Bill? Since when is Bill a better CEO than Ballmer? Bill was going to completely destroy MS (antitrust, stupid strategies).
Ballmer took that POS that was windows 98 and XP and made windows 7. Windows 7 innovated 0, but was very fast, stable and secure, and doesn't looks like an ugly fat pig. A much better OS than anything Microsoft did before.
These new Lumia 920 are great phones, Bill was 0 at mobile.
Xbox's success belongs more to Ballmer than to Bill.
Office is the same shit, with better looks.
Bing is solid.
Microsoft is now a good company that can take care of their costumers. No privacy scandals there. See? Ballmer took a big empire that was going to implode and was able to create good products and a good company, while providing some laughs.
Bill is not better than Ballmer as CEO. He is just ruthless and cruel, able to easily play and manipulate lesser minds while playing the "sucker" game. He was forced to step down.
The value with MS Office comes from being able to create formatted documents that can be easily read by other people you might email them to. MS Office's file formats have become the defacto standard over the years. This is primarily due to business and education adopting MS Office as the standard programs everyone in the facility or institution was directed to use.
If you don't use highly formatted text or complex spreadsheets, you can switch to Google Docs, Apple's iWorks, or some of the other programs on the market that allow you to save in Microsoft's Word or Excel formats thereby being able to exchange readable documents with anyone else you may desire.
The pricing changes MS is now instituting may cause many of their customers to change their internal standards to other creation programs. The timing of this move by Microsoft is not a good one, their market clout is currently at a low.
The trouble with MS Office is people think it represents some sort of standard. Send a document to someone with a different OS or different fonts, and the layout goes bananas. PDF is far preferable for this purpose, and recent PDF viewers allow annotations. For collaborative documents, Google Docs, despite limitations on formatting, is far preferable because you can work collectively on one document, rather than sending copies around by email and ending up with multiple version confusion.
For nontrivial documents I use LaTeX (I’ve even written novels this way: look for me at Amazon). I used Word up to about 1996 for relatively complex documents when its propensity for eating files, doing weird stuff with figure placement and the random way working features were changed in new versions, often for the worse, convinced me they were working to the interests of someone other than me. I still use MS Word because I have to open other people’s docs, but otherwise try to avoid it.
LaTeX, for the uninitiated, can be intimidating but once you learn the basics, it’s not that hard — doing tables is a bit tricky, but most can steer clear of the more complex features.
I was at a meeting the other day with Pages open and someone saw my document and he asked, "How do you make such amazing documents?"
Again, truth be told, you can do the same thing with any modern layout program. It's just a sense of design. Most people would survive if they only had the features of MacWrite 1.0 because they make such simplistic documents.The thing I hate about Microsoft Word is how is tries to help me so much with so many features. I swear to god it tries to force formatting or will not let me do this or that because automatic features kick in.
I am at a loss over any grand features Pages is missing. I have produced thousands of documents with it from simplistic ones to 100 page reports containing everything you can imagine. As long as Apple keeps it working with the current OSXs and keeps it fast and responsive, I will be happy.
Maybe we should be glad there isnt feature creep like in Word. More isnt always better — just get me better equation support
Comments
Never crossed your mind that Apple does know/realise/is aware of something that you don't..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ
I want this to come off as a non-nasty response. So, please take it that way.
Can someone explain to me -- a non-office worker -- what the value of Office is? That's all I want to know.
Thanks.
The value with MS Office comes from being able to create formatted documents that can be easily read by other people you might email them to. MS Office's file formats have become the defacto standard over the years. This is primarily due to business and education adopting MS Office as the standard programs everyone in the facility or institution was directed to use.
If you don't use highly formatted text or complex spreadsheets, you can switch to Google Docs, Apple's iWorks, or some of the other programs on the market that allow you to save in Microsoft's Word or Excel formats thereby being able to exchange readable documents with anyone else you may desire.
The pricing changes MS is now instituting may cause many of their customers to change their internal standards to other creation programs. The timing of this move by Microsoft is not a good one, their market clout is currently at a low.
I've heard of that before, but. Company I work for is MS partner, and we do get updates from MS regarding volume licensing, retail and OEM. We almost always receive info before changes actually hit the market.
We haven't received anything yet regarding what is covered in that article.
MS already had OEM/ROK Office that was permanently "attached" to a PC, same as OEM Windows. You still could replace HDD and other parts inside that machine and re-activate Windows and Office if required. If that would happen in less than XY days, you might have to call MS support and ask for activation key. The only question they have ever asked for was "is that the only PC this license of Windows/Office is installed on?".
Doing 180 degrees on a dime? I really don't think so. If they did, I will be really disappointed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
Never crossed your mind that Apple does know/realise/is aware of something that you don't..?
I'm thinking that Apple may be working on something that may allow them to make iWorks more powerful and cross-platform. At least I hope they are.
With their current successes into Microsoft's old solid markets with their iDevices and Macs, they could lure Microsoft's old Office customers to adopt a new standard for all but a few power users.
Microsoft is not choosing a strong time to push their weight around on pricing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorMatt
I have been using Pages/Numbers/Keynote since 2008 (almost) exclusively. I consider myself a sophisticated user and have never come across a time where iWork couldn't do what I needed to do. OK, maybe if iWork had better equation support, that'd be nice, but I am really at a loss what more I want it do to.
I sometimes have to work with Office 2013 and it's not a pretty affair. The whole ribbon interface is a disaster. Granted, one could make beautiful documents in MS Word or Pages or even ClarisWorks, but I will argue its whole alot more pleasant and easier with Pages.
Isnt it amusing what type of documents 90% of consumers make with Word? ALL CAPS with whole spacing between lines with the odd clipart. That may be an exageration, but you know what I mean. Man, people have no sense of typography, style, spacing, ..... I better stop this rant before I go on.
You sound like 90% of the people that use computers to draft a document or create a spreadsheet. You don't need the full set of MS Office functions, as do most people. I consider myself a "power user" of MS Office, and yet I've never had to create a calculus equation in a document, have Word make up a table of contents, or any of the hundreds of other things MS Office can do. In fact. MS Office is best used by a university student or professor doing post-graduate work.
I have found that when I begin to use some of the more sophisticated features in MS Office on my Mac is when the program becomes very wonky and most often is likely to crash suddenly. So, even I could likely function quite well with Pages, and maybe even Numbers. Keynote is already a much better program then the Office equivalent, PowerPoint.
Don't succumb to the online app craze. Ensure you have local versions of all your critical programs. Even now many of our games can't be played without an internet connection either. This is really annoying; many times I want to play but can't connect. And when I get a new iPhone I have to plead with them to allow it to continue games started on the old phone. I shouldn't have to cross my fingers or beg to use my software!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
The value with MS Office comes from being able to create formatted documents that can be easily read by other people you might email them to. MS Office's file formats have become the defacto standard over the years. This is primarily due to business and education adopting MS Office as the standard programs everyone in the facility or institution was directed to use.
If you don't use highly formatted text or complex spreadsheets, you can switch to Google Docs, Apple's iWorks, or some of the other programs on the market that allow you to save in Microsoft's Word or Excel formats thereby being able to exchange readable documents with anyone else you may desire.
The pricing changes MS is now instituting may cause many of their customers to change their internal standards to other creation programs. The timing of this move by Microsoft is not a good one, their market clout is currently at a low.
Thank you. I was honestly asking.
Apple sells hardware to pay for software which sells hardware. Now of course it's all incapsulated. iTunes is free so it sells iDevices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Software sells hardware. They haven't stopped with 10.8. They are constantly improving the OS.
I totally disagree with your last sentence. Things have gone downhill since Snow Leopard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13
2013 for Windows and 2011 for Mac can still be had for $9.95 from http://www.microsofthup.com if you are fortunate enough to work for a company that participates in this program.
That site really helps show Microsoft's strategy. Try to keep businesses on Windows by providing all new software offers on Windows only. Hell, they only added Outlook in 2011 as Mac's were stuck with Entourage (load of crap).
My company licenses office for everyone, but since they went to the latest Exchange server version, I happily use Mail and Calendar instead of Outlook. I use iWork for just about everything I need and just save files to Office formats if people need editable copies. Otherwise I just send PDFs anyway.
I really hope Microsoft continues the missteps. The worst software on my Mac is from Microsoft.
PDF's is indeed the way to go, for sharing docs. Indeed, if you need to edit them just save as Office format. Most of the formatting remains intact. But I'm sure there are people going to post contradictions to this statement.
Somehow I like that as well, just to see their/Ballmers' stupidity. Do hope they stay in the business, just to have a reference point for comparisons. And Ballmer for Life (TM) he makes for good laughs.
That could work as a tagline:
iWork needs more consistency (Pages is full screen mode doesn't have the information button to edit the pages nor the preview of pages, whereas Numbers looks like when it is in window mode).
If only Apple could allow export in the new "x" formats (docx xlsx)... More important, however, is the revamp of Numbers.
I have no idea on whether licensing would work or not for MS, but as someone with Pages and Word on my Office machine I try to use Pages and end up using Word. Just last week I found that inserting a page break will not insert the break for added images. And the adding of images is a mess anyway. Text flow is random.Numbering in Pages is a mess.
Word acts as you would expect.
God no, Ballmer is doing us all a favor by giving us all a good laugh from time to time!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
This is another strategic mistake by Microsoft. Come back Bill, you are needed. Your wife can handle the charity by herself.
Hey...
Bill? Since when is Bill a better CEO than Ballmer? Bill was going to completely destroy MS (antitrust, stupid strategies).
Ballmer took that POS that was windows 98 and XP and made windows 7. Windows 7 innovated 0, but was very fast, stable and secure, and doesn't looks like an ugly fat pig. A much better OS than anything Microsoft did before.
These new Lumia 920 are great phones, Bill was 0 at mobile.
Xbox's success belongs more to Ballmer than to Bill.
Office is the same shit, with better looks.
Bing is solid.
Microsoft is now a good company that can take care of their costumers. No privacy scandals there. See? Ballmer took a big empire that was going to implode and was able to create good products and a good company, while providing some laughs.
Bill is not better than Ballmer as CEO. He is just ruthless and cruel, able to easily play and manipulate lesser minds while playing the "sucker" game. He was forced to step down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
The value with MS Office comes from being able to create formatted documents that can be easily read by other people you might email them to. MS Office's file formats have become the defacto standard over the years. This is primarily due to business and education adopting MS Office as the standard programs everyone in the facility or institution was directed to use.
If you don't use highly formatted text or complex spreadsheets, you can switch to Google Docs, Apple's iWorks, or some of the other programs on the market that allow you to save in Microsoft's Word or Excel formats thereby being able to exchange readable documents with anyone else you may desire.
The pricing changes MS is now instituting may cause many of their customers to change their internal standards to other creation programs. The timing of this move by Microsoft is not a good one, their market clout is currently at a low.
The trouble with MS Office is people think it represents some sort of standard. Send a document to someone with a different OS or different fonts, and the layout goes bananas. PDF is far preferable for this purpose, and recent PDF viewers allow annotations. For collaborative documents, Google Docs, despite limitations on formatting, is far preferable because you can work collectively on one document, rather than sending copies around by email and ending up with multiple version confusion.
For nontrivial documents I use LaTeX (I’ve even written novels this way: look for me at Amazon). I used Word up to about 1996 for relatively complex documents when its propensity for eating files, doing weird stuff with figure placement and the random way working features were changed in new versions, often for the worse, convinced me they were working to the interests of someone other than me. I still use MS Word because I have to open other people’s docs, but otherwise try to avoid it.
LaTeX, for the uninitiated, can be intimidating but once you learn the basics, it’s not that hard — doing tables is a bit tricky, but most can steer clear of the more complex features.
I was at a meeting the other day with Pages open and someone saw my document and he asked, "How do you make such amazing documents?"
Again, truth be told, you can do the same thing with any modern layout program. It's just a sense of design. Most people would survive if they only had the features of MacWrite 1.0 because they make such simplistic documents.The thing I hate about Microsoft Word is how is tries to help me so much with so many features. I swear to god it tries to force formatting or will not let me do this or that because automatic features kick in.
I am at a loss over any grand features Pages is missing. I have produced thousands of documents with it from simplistic ones to 100 page reports containing everything you can imagine. As long as Apple keeps it working with the current OSXs and keeps it fast and responsive, I will be happy.
Maybe we should be glad there isnt feature creep like in Word. More isnt always better — just get me better equation support