I'm not sure why it's fair to tax that money twice. If they paid the tax in the country the money was made in, why do they need to pay again to move it into the United States? Seems like it should be one or the other.
[" url="/t/156404/pressure-mounts-for-apple-repatriate-40b-in-overseas-cash#post_2291361"]Apple should take advantage of all possible loopholes and pay as little in taxes as possible. That's fully legal and nobody can blame somebody else for doing what's legal. If the laws are bad or poor, then change the laws, don't blame people who follow the laws.
Who actually pays more than they should when doing their income taxes?
I recently filed my taxes, and I obviously tried to pay as little as possible. I don't wish to pay a single penny more than I am required to.
But you at least paid some. Many corporations pay nothing.
Even Apple isn't above the laws of economics that say when you tax something more, you get less of it.
I wouldn't expect to see any of that overseas stash without some sort of tax holiday.
It reminded me of when SJ went before the city council in Cupertino to get feedback and smooth the skids on building a new spaceship office space. At 14 minutes in, Steve was asked to provide free wi-fi. At 16 minutes in, concerns were raised that 3500 people would die in a fire in such a spaceship...so had Apple thought about safety?
Yes, these are the mental giants that are paving the way for businesses such as Apple to provide innovation and generate tax dollars to their communities. Note the enthusiasm when Steve is told that the council members will help a Cupertino Apple Store be successful at 20:20.
The law is the law, as they say. Don't tell me that you never cheated on your taxes, because no one will believe you. But if it's legal, then that is the final word. It's up to the governments in question to close loopholes. If they refuse to do so, then screw them. I have no sympathy.
I would believe him if he said he never *cheated* on his taxes - I've never cheated on mine. But if he tried to say he'd never made even the smallest attempt to *legally* reduce the amount of tax he pays, I might be skeptical. I think we need to keep that distinction - is Apple "cheating" or are they using a completely legal loophole? If they're following the rules, then hate the game, not the player.
Various governments around the world, particularly those in the EU. Specifically, those countries there that are missing out on the taxes. And here as well.
You mean like Greece, Spain, Italy, etc....? Apple likes playing 'savior' so I guess they'd like some saving.
Then they need to leave for good. You get to use the US, the military, and the infrastructure to make it where you are, then F'ing pay your taxes like the rest of us.
Corporate profits are at an all time high, stock marklet all time high, wages lowest ever. Lobbying, Citizen's United, companies buying our government- F that. Period.
I don't think you fully understand this. Foreign earnings are taxed at foreign rates because they are earned outside the US. There's no argument there. Whatever local taxes are in effect are paid. That's as it should be. It works that way for every company no matter where they are from. If you are headquartered in a country that has lower taxes than the countries where foreign earnings are, then should you get taxes back from your government because you paid more already on those foreign earnings? If its the other way around, then should you pay more? It's not as simple as you think it is.
I would believe him if he said he never *cheated* on his taxes - I've never cheated on mine. But if he tried to say he'd never made even the smallest attempt to *legally* reduce the amount of tax he pays, I might be skeptical. I think we need to keep that distinction - is Apple "cheating" or are they using a completely legal loophole? If they're following the rules, then hate the game, not the player.
So you're telling me that you never took any money for anything without paying taxes on it? You always look up the tax rates for States, Counties and cities that Amazon is in when you buy from them, and pay the taxes for the items you've bought? Same thing for any other online company?
If you haven't, then you've cheated on your taxes. We all have.
And what he is saying is that companies should look to pay the highest rates available. Just, no doubt, as he does.
Even Apple isn't above the laws of economics that say when you tax something more, you get less of it.
I wouldn't expect to see any of that overseas stash without some sort of tax holiday.
It reminded me of when SJ went before the city council in Cupertino to get feedback and smooth the skids on building a new spaceship office space. At 14 minutes in, Steve was asked to provide free wi-fi. At 16 minutes in, concerns were raised that 3500 people would die in a fire in such a spaceship...so had Apple thought about safety?
Yes, these are the mental giants that are paving the way for businesses such as Apple to provide innovation and generate tax dollars to their communities. Note the enthusiasm when Steve is told that the council members will help a Cupertino Apple Store be successful at 20:20.
There is an Apple store in Cupertino. It is located at 1 Infinite Loop. It is pretty nice even though not a full store. It also is the only store on the planet that carries official Apple branded merchandise and is open to the public.
Tripe. That money can stay overseas or be out into foreign investments and nobody can "pressure" Apple or any other company into bringing it "back" to the US (actually not "back" because it was never here in the first place- they make it seem like Apple exported the cash to avoid taxes).
This isn't news. Theres no flaw in the US tax code that's allowing any shenanigans here. This money was earned overseas, and that's where it will stay until they see fit to put it somewhere. If the US hosts a "tax holiday", it won't be to encourage anyone to follow the law. It'll only serve to inject foreign money into the US economy - a smart move regardless. Apple already paid tax somewhere else.
Jakeb@: Reading is fundamental. What part of "foreign income tax expenditures can be credited on U.S. taxes" confuses you?
And by the way, most people pay taxes twice: We pay income taxes on our adjusted gross income, and then we pay sales taxes on our net income after taxes when we use it to purchase. Why should corporations be able to avoid such "double taxation" when actual live human beings can't ...?
I'm not sure why it's fair to tax that money twice. If they paid the tax in the country the money was made in, why do they need to pay again to move it into the United States? Seems like it should be one or the other.
Reading is fundamental. What part of "foreign income tax expenditures can be credited on U.S. taxes" confuses you?
And by the way, most people pay taxes twice: We pay income taxes on our adjusted gross income, and then we pay sales taxes on our net income after taxes when we use it to purchase. Why should corporations be able to avoid such "double taxation" when actual live human beings can't ...?
I'm "hoarding" my money and avoiding taxes by not selling my AAPL shares. Perhaps I should be pressured to sell my shares and then repurchase them just so the IRA can get a piece of the action for my investment success (ok, would have been more successful if I had cashed out when it hit $700, but still).
malax@: The Irish Republican Army gets a portion of the proceeds when you sell your Apple stocks ...?
I mean that we pay tax on top of tax, in essence paying more than we should have.
You mean paying an income tax and then paying sales tax on top of already taxes gas? I don't really think that's a fair assessment as the various taxes are for different things. Now there have surely been cases where the tax for one thing goes for something completely unrelated. For instance, if your fuel excise tax went to fund art programs in Iceland for exchange student I'd understand it not being a good use of taxation.
Comments
We get taxed 2-3X why shouldn't they?
But you at least paid some. Many corporations pay nothing.
You're getting taxed "2-3x" on any profits earned overseas that you keep overseas? If I were you I"d get a new accountant.
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-new-campus-2011-6#heres-the-video-of-jobs-pitch-its-amazing-20
Even Apple isn't above the laws of economics that say when you tax something more, you get less of it.
I wouldn't expect to see any of that overseas stash without some sort of tax holiday.
It reminded me of when SJ went before the city council in Cupertino to get feedback and smooth the skids on building a new spaceship office space. At 14 minutes in, Steve was asked to provide free wi-fi. At 16 minutes in, concerns were raised that 3500 people would die in a fire in such a spaceship...so had Apple thought about safety?
Yes, these are the mental giants that are paving the way for businesses such as Apple to provide innovation and generate tax dollars to their communities. Note the enthusiasm when Steve is told that the council members will help a Cupertino Apple Store be successful at 20:20.
Originally Posted by dasanman69
But you at least paid some. Many corporations pay nothing. We get taxed 2-3X why shouldn't they?
Originally Posted by dasanman69
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The law is the law, as they say. Don't tell me that you never cheated on your taxes, because no one will believe you. But if it's legal, then that is the final word. It's up to the governments in question to close loopholes. If they refuse to do so, then screw them. I have no sympathy.
I would believe him if he said he never *cheated* on his taxes - I've never cheated on mine. But if he tried to say he'd never made even the smallest attempt to *legally* reduce the amount of tax he pays, I might be skeptical. I think we need to keep that distinction - is Apple "cheating" or are they using a completely legal loophole? If they're following the rules, then hate the game, not the player.
You mean like Greece, Spain, Italy, etc....? Apple likes playing 'savior' so I guess they'd like some saving.
I don't think you fully understand this. Foreign earnings are taxed at foreign rates because they are earned outside the US. There's no argument there. Whatever local taxes are in effect are paid. That's as it should be. It works that way for every company no matter where they are from. If you are headquartered in a country that has lower taxes than the countries where foreign earnings are, then should you get taxes back from your government because you paid more already on those foreign earnings? If its the other way around, then should you pay more? It's not as simple as you think it is.
That makes no sense.
No you don't.
I mean that we pay tax on top of tax, in essence paying more than we should have.
So you're telling me that you never took any money for anything without paying taxes on it? You always look up the tax rates for States, Counties and cities that Amazon is in when you buy from them, and pay the taxes for the items you've bought? Same thing for any other online company?
If you haven't, then you've cheated on your taxes. We all have.
And what he is saying is that companies should look to pay the highest rates available. Just, no doubt, as he does.
There is an Apple store in Cupertino. It is located at 1 Infinite Loop. It is pretty nice even though not a full store. It also is the only store on the planet that carries official Apple branded merchandise and is open to the public.
This isn't news. Theres no flaw in the US tax code that's allowing any shenanigans here. This money was earned overseas, and that's where it will stay until they see fit to put it somewhere. If the US hosts a "tax holiday", it won't be to encourage anyone to follow the law. It'll only serve to inject foreign money into the US economy - a smart move regardless. Apple already paid tax somewhere else.
Jakeb@: Reading is fundamental. What part of "foreign income tax expenditures can be credited on U.S. taxes" confuses you?
And by the way, most people pay taxes twice: We pay income taxes on our adjusted gross income, and then we pay sales taxes on our net income after taxes when we use it to purchase. Why should corporations be able to avoid such "double taxation" when actual live human beings can't ...?
malax@: The Irish Republican Army gets a portion of the proceeds when you sell your Apple stocks ...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeb
I'm not sure why it's fair to tax that money twice. If they paid the tax in the country the money was made in, why do they need to pay again to move it into the United States? Seems like it should be one or the other.
Reading is fundamental. What part of "foreign income tax expenditures can be credited on U.S. taxes" confuses you?
And by the way, most people pay taxes twice: We pay income taxes on our adjusted gross income, and then we pay sales taxes on our net income after taxes when we use it to purchase. Why should corporations be able to avoid such "double taxation" when actual live human beings can't ...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax
I'm "hoarding" my money and avoiding taxes by not selling my AAPL shares. Perhaps I should be pressured to sell my shares and then repurchase them just so the IRA can get a piece of the action for my investment success (ok, would have been more successful if I had cashed out when it hit $700, but still).
malax@: The Irish Republican Army gets a portion of the proceeds when you sell your Apple stocks ...?
You mean paying an income tax and then paying sales tax on top of already taxes gas? I don't really think that's a fair assessment as the various taxes are for different things. Now there have surely been cases where the tax for one thing goes for something completely unrelated. For instance, if your fuel excise tax went to fund art programs in Iceland for exchange student I'd understand it not being a good use of taxation.