Hopefully Apple is billing the various agencies for each case. Why should Apple be doing the police's work for them for free? And I also read that Apple delivers the results on a USB thumb drive. Apple should be making money off of each police request and charging appropriately. Apple should be making a reasonable profit margin on each request.
It's good that the DEA has a hard time tapping into suspect's messages, as this proves that iPhone to iPhone messages are very secure.
In the future, people should be able to buy weed directly from within an app, with one click and zero hassle. The DEA is wasting their time and wasting our tax payer money. Hopefully they will have to wait a lot longer than 7 weeks for each request. The DEA should be downsized or dismantled completely. Talk about a useless and worthless job.
To your question why should apple pay to decrypt the phones? Because its the right thing for a company to do that is making 13 billion. What is 5 million to ensure public safety?
As far as drugs being legal, you need to consider. Can we afford the increased health costs, the increased addicted, as far as the economy goes, parasites.
It's estimated the amount of people that are addicted (also don't work, steal, worthless from an economy stand point) will at least double, pay for that in your own dollar.
To your question why should apple pay to decrypt the phones? Because its the right thing for a company to do that is making 13 billion. What is 5 million to ensure public safety?
As far as drugs being legal, you need to consider. Can we afford the increased health costs, the increased addicted, as far as the economy goes, parasites.
It's estimated the amount of people that are addicted (also don't work, steal, worthless from an economy stand point) will at least double, pay for that in your own dollar.
I don't think that the size of Apple's piggybank is of any relevance to the topic, and I don't believe that Apple should be providing services to any government agencies for free.
Health care is already a mess and is only going to get much worse and more expensive, thanks to certain health care legislation which I shall not name here. The money already spent and wasted on fighting the "drug war" is astronomical and huge. The government is not at all concerned about saving money.
The concern, it seems, is that anyone other than the owner would have the keys to 'Decrypt' an encrypted iPhone. If I encrypted my phone I really don't think I would mean to "protect it from everyone except Apple". Why does Apple have a back door? Seems like that's a glaring problem with the entire notion of iPhone encryption.
The remote erase capability of the iPhone is, I believe, based on the use of a strongly encrypted filesystem on the device. If the phone erases the encryption key, then all the data is permanently unreadable. If the criminals have used the remote wipe capability, then Apple can't recover the data. Period.
If they just need to get past a pass lock, where the user has to type a code in to use the phone, and the encryption key is still stored somewhere on the device, then with some amount of hardware hacking Apple could get at the data. But this requires opening up the device, unless the phone is on a version of iOS where there is a known hack for getting around the pass lock. Or unless Apple has some sort of backdoor way of getting past the pass lock.
To your question why should apple pay to decrypt the phones? Because its the right thing for a company to do that is making 13 billion. What is 5 million to ensure public safety?
The problem is if it was free, then law enforcement would abuse it. Anytime they saw a iPhone they'd send it in to Apple. Ultimately the costs would be passed on consumers who didn't commit crimes.
And the costs, I guarantee you, are much higher than $5 million. It is probably around $2-5K per phone. Work done by a certified forensic examiner is around $300-400 an hour. This is because Apple needs to follow very strict procedures to ensure evidence is not tampered with, or overlooked. Lawyers will have to vet and oversee the process. Ultimately their procedures and the people involved will have to be questioned in a court of law. Any little mistake or omission can lead to critical evidence being thrown out.
The concern, it seems, is that anyone other than the owner would have the keys to 'Decrypt' an encrypted iPhone. If I encrypted my phone I really don't think I would mean to "protect it from everyone except Apple". Why does Apple have a back door? Seems like that's a glaring problem with the entire notion of iPhone encryption.
Did you use a PIN on your phone? No password on your phone at all? Then you can easily brute force it.
What you have to realize is that if the cops get a hold of a phone, they cannot turn it on, because that can destroy critical evidence. They need to be able to make a copy of the data without booting the OS, then try all 10k pins, and only Apple can do this properly.
The concern, it seems, is that anyone other than the owner would have the keys to 'Decrypt' an encrypted iPhone. If I encrypted my phone I really don't think I would mean to "protect it from everyone except Apple". Why does Apple have a back door? Seems like that's a glaring problem with the entire notion of iPhone encryption.
In a sense they do have a back door because they wrote the software so they know how the passcode are encoded and where. And so they would know if there was a way to pull the info off say by copying that bit of data to the area of a computer that is storing it so that it can still back up a phone even if you forget the passcode (so long as it isn't disabled) because it was previously linked to the phone. If you could mock that key you could back up the phone, restore it to a blank phone and have at a lot of info.
Yes Apple should do it FREE and made to do it faster. They receive major tax breaks and take advantage of loopholes. When it comes to solving crimes they want us to pay again!? NO!
It would be politically unwise of Apple to be uncooperative with law enforcement. Charging too much or even at all might create backlash in congress. Particularly from the law and order types.
Not sure if you are kidding or not.. But assuming you aren't: turn on the pass code requirement and make it at least 6 characters, but the more there are the better.
Done.
Not really. They just make it illegal for civilians to own that technology. Look at guns, technologies like night vision and spy satellites, and in the past encryption (clipper chip).
Actually it has moved on to CAD templates of guns for 3D printers, the US Government stepped in just the other day.
Did you use a PIN on your phone? No password on your phone at all? Then you can easily brute force it.
What you have to realize is that if the cops get a hold of a phone, they cannot turn it on, because that can destroy critical evidence. They need to be able to make a copy of the data without booting the OS, then try all 10k pins, and only Apple can do this properly.
10,000 pins only if "Simple Passcode" is enabled, flick that little switch and things just got a whole lot harder, then you can set the iOS device to wipe itself after "X" attempts.
Not sure if you are kidding or not.. But assuming you aren't: turn on the pass code requirement and make it at least 6 characters, but the more there are the better.
Done.
No I was serious. I wasn't aware that just putting a pass code in settings automatically encrypted all the data. Seems rather instantaneous. I would have thought that to encrypt the entire phone would take awhile. Also, the address book is still somewhat available to anyone, even when locked. You can pick up anyone's iPhone and invoke Siri who will willingly display the owner's information just tell her to "Show my info". If it was encrypted what is the point since the information is so easy to acquire, even without knowing the pass code?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
You do realize that tax payers would be footing the bill.
Yes of course I do.
To your question why should apple pay to decrypt the phones? Because its the right thing for a company to do that is making 13 billion. What is 5 million to ensure public safety?
As far as drugs being legal, you need to consider. Can we afford the increased health costs, the increased addicted, as far as the economy goes, parasites.
It's estimated the amount of people that are addicted (also don't work, steal, worthless from an economy stand point) will at least double, pay for that in your own dollar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill
To your question why should apple pay to decrypt the phones? Because its the right thing for a company to do that is making 13 billion. What is 5 million to ensure public safety?
As far as drugs being legal, you need to consider. Can we afford the increased health costs, the increased addicted, as far as the economy goes, parasites.
It's estimated the amount of people that are addicted (also don't work, steal, worthless from an economy stand point) will at least double, pay for that in your own dollar.
I don't think that the size of Apple's piggybank is of any relevance to the topic, and I don't believe that Apple should be providing services to any government agencies for free.
Health care is already a mess and is only going to get much worse and more expensive, thanks to certain health care legislation which I shall not name here. The money already spent and wasted on fighting the "drug war" is astronomical and huge. The government is not at all concerned about saving money.
If they just need to get past a pass lock, where the user has to type a code in to use the phone, and the encryption key is still stored somewhere on the device, then with some amount of hardware hacking Apple could get at the data. But this requires opening up the device, unless the phone is on a version of iOS where there is a known hack for getting around the pass lock. Or unless Apple has some sort of backdoor way of getting past the pass lock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill
To your question why should apple pay to decrypt the phones? Because its the right thing for a company to do that is making 13 billion. What is 5 million to ensure public safety?
The problem is if it was free, then law enforcement would abuse it. Anytime they saw a iPhone they'd send it in to Apple. Ultimately the costs would be passed on consumers who didn't commit crimes.
And the costs, I guarantee you, are much higher than $5 million. It is probably around $2-5K per phone. Work done by a certified forensic examiner is around $300-400 an hour. This is because Apple needs to follow very strict procedures to ensure evidence is not tampered with, or overlooked. Lawyers will have to vet and oversee the process. Ultimately their procedures and the people involved will have to be questioned in a court of law. Any little mistake or omission can lead to critical evidence being thrown out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGS46
The concern, it seems, is that anyone other than the owner would have the keys to 'Decrypt' an encrypted iPhone. If I encrypted my phone I really don't think I would mean to "protect it from everyone except Apple". Why does Apple have a back door? Seems like that's a glaring problem with the entire notion of iPhone encryption.
Did you use a PIN on your phone? No password on your phone at all? Then you can easily brute force it.
What you have to realize is that if the cops get a hold of a phone, they cannot turn it on, because that can destroy critical evidence. They need to be able to make a copy of the data without booting the OS, then try all 10k pins, and only Apple can do this properly.
In a sense they do have a back door because they wrote the software so they know how the passcode are encoded and where. And so they would know if there was a way to pull the info off say by copying that bit of data to the area of a computer that is storing it so that it can still back up a phone even if you forget the passcode (so long as it isn't disabled) because it was previously linked to the phone. If you could mock that key you could back up the phone, restore it to a blank phone and have at a lot of info.
It would be politically unwise of Apple to be uncooperative with law enforcement. Charging too much or even at all might create backlash in congress. Particularly from the law and order types.
http://mobileforensics.com
Says data acquisition is provided for 4000+ mobile phones including iPhones with their Secure View software
Done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64
Wow - so it is a waste of tax payer money for the DEA to stop criminals from profiting off illegal drugs...
What, so like the money Google made from illegal drugs imported from Canada?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
How do I encrypt my iPhone?
password lock it
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror
Not really. They just make it illegal for civilians to own that technology. Look at guns, technologies like night vision and spy satellites, and in the past encryption (clipper chip).
Actually it has moved on to CAD templates of guns for 3D printers, the US Government stepped in just the other day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror
Did you use a PIN on your phone? No password on your phone at all? Then you can easily brute force it.
What you have to realize is that if the cops get a hold of a phone, they cannot turn it on, because that can destroy critical evidence. They need to be able to make a copy of the data without booting the OS, then try all 10k pins, and only Apple can do this properly.
10,000 pins only if "Simple Passcode" is enabled, flick that little switch and things just got a whole lot harder, then you can set the iOS device to wipe itself after "X" attempts.
Just don't sieze them that way. Just don't encrypt that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostkiwi
N
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
How do I encrypt my iPhone?
Not sure if you are kidding or not.. But assuming you aren't: turn on the pass code requirement and make it at least 6 characters, but the more there are the better.
Done.
No I was serious. I wasn't aware that just putting a pass code in settings automatically encrypted all the data. Seems rather instantaneous. I would have thought that to encrypt the entire phone would take awhile. Also, the address book is still somewhat available to anyone, even when locked. You can pick up anyone's iPhone and invoke Siri who will willingly display the owner's information just tell her to "Show my info". If it was encrypted what is the point since the information is so easy to acquire, even without knowing the pass code?