Apple CEO talks taxes ahead of hearing: 'We pay every dollar that we owe'

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 132
    phone-ui-guyphone-ui-guy Posts: 1,019member
    I'm tired of all the tax bashing on large corporations. It isn't a loophole to base your operations for the EU in Ireland. It is good business. It isn't a loophole leaving overseas profits overseas and not having to pay tax on those profits to the US. It is the law and it makes sense. If you don't bring the money back to the US, why should you have to pay US taxes on it? They already pay taxes on those same profits where they were earned.

    Congress needs to be careful. If they screw it up too much, US corporations will move there headquarts overseas. Let these companies bring the money home at a reasonable rate and they will. Force an outrageous double taxation percentage like we have now, they will leave it overseas and keep borrowing money here at low rates. Cisco did This exact same thing already to increase dividends. It was nothing new.
  • Reply 22 of 132
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Dear Tim,

    Your ``Apple CEO talks taxes ahead of hearing: 'We pay every dollar that we owe''' wears thin.

    Try this one on for size: Apple CEO talks taxes ahead of hearing: 'We pay only what the present US Tax Code requires.'

    ``Sure, we know it's absurd, but we are well within that absurd set of loop-holes corporate bribery/lobbying has influenced when writing the laws.''

    P.S. As a NeXT/Apple alumnus I never agreed with the way Fred Anderson pushed the boundaries any more than I do with Peter Oppenheimer uses every loop-hole the corporate effective tax rate allows. But to do otherwise would have shareholders proclaiming they weren't doing their jobs.

    When corporations stop bleeding the nation with handouts and then demanding tax shelters then perhaps a sweet spot in the tax revenue curve will happen. It will take a complete gutting of all tax loopholes for corporations before that happens.

    You want to reduce your tax burden, then start reinvesting in your company R&D and technical talent. Sorry, you don't get to artificially raise your stock price by streamlining your tax burdens any longer.
  • Reply 23 of 132
    adamcadamc Posts: 582member
    Apple is using every loophole and trick known to Wall Street and leveraging offshore accounts to "pay every dollar they owe" which is very little.  They used loopholes to pay dividends.

    Now, I'm all for business and pro-business but this Apple corporate tax dodging highlights a big problem where average working people like me pay the most into the system

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/17/apple-corporate-income-tax-rate_n_1429955.html

    Get an accountant to do your taxes and you may find the govt owing you some money.

    Btw pay your dies and not the whine.
  • Reply 24 of 132
    golfmangolfman Posts: 15member
    35% tax to brings funds into US is just stupid. What is the basis for such a tax? If they changed the law, companies could have more of an option to invest money made overseas back into the USA.
  • Reply 25 of 132
    I don't believe Apple is under any kind of investigation, therefore neither Apple nor Cook have an obligation to testify in this hearing. I think Cook is rather foolish to sit in a congressional hearing, being asked questions, and looking like Apple is on trial when it isn't. Cook should have taken a pass and instead, invited a few Senators to discuss tax policy with him at his headquarters in Cupertino without any cameras present. That is how you do things. Now Cook is going to open his big fat mouth, look like a criminal in front of questioning senators, and Apple's stock will fall again.

    Thanks Tim!
  • Reply 26 of 132
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post



    Dear Tim,



    Your ``Apple CEO talks taxes ahead of hearing: 'We pay every dollar that we owe''' wears thin.



    Try this one on for size: Apple CEO talks taxes ahead of hearing: 'We pay only what the present US Tax Code requires.'


     


    toe-may-toe / toe-mah-toe


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post



    ``Sure, we know it's absurd, but we are well within that absurd set of loop-holes corporate bribery/lobbying has influenced when writing the laws.''


     


    The only thing that's absurd is that they have to pay anything at all, let alone have to jump through such obstacles and spend so much time and energy to get the taxes down to a reasonable level or to even have to explain themselves to a bunch of parasites (Congress.)

  • Reply 27 of 132

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I don't understand this, but then I'm not an accountant.


     


    If the corporation raises price of widget but their cost to produce widget is the same, they make more profit and consequently owe more taxes. Where is the part where the consumer pays the taxes?



    That's cost increases internally not appraised externally. Think of it as the difference between Margin Dollars and Margin %. In other words if I increase the rate of tax on income they owe, that will hit the Margin %, and in turn mean less margin dollars per unit. What will happen to protect those Margin % rates is the fixed cost of the item paid by the consumer goes up to cover the increases. 

  • Reply 28 of 132
    Quote:


    'Senator Carl Levin (D-Mich) called the entire tech industry to task for its tax avoidance, while Oklahoma's Sen. Tom Coburn (R) has previously said he was "livid" at Apple's tax actions."

    If you don't like the US tax law (you can change it)
    If you passed it and you don't like it (take it back)
    --but you know you won't

    (Apologies to Jonathan Man and the iPhone Antenna Song--)
  • Reply 29 of 132

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


    Tim Cook:


     


     


    I'm not sure who in their right mind would not agree with this. 35% to repatriate is absolutely ridiculous. Corporations would have to be insane or suicidal to throw almost 40% of that money down the toilet for little to no benefit. 


     


    Apple is possibly the largest corporate taxpayer in the US. They're certainly "paying their dues". 



     


    Ah, how quickly we forget the days when the maximum individual tax rate was 90%. Do you remember what we did back then? We built bridges, interstate freeways, damns, put a man on the moon, and accomplished many other worthy goals as a nation. This is nothing but a dog and pony show for the senators involved, and they are going to try to make Apple look evil. Why is Cook even doing this? Apple is not under investigation and nobody issued a subpoena to Cook. Watch Apple's stock drop like a rock next week.

  • Reply 30 of 132
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member


    Unlike the administration, Apple isn't doing anything illegal.


     


    Making a lot of money is not a crime, and Tim Cook shouldn't be taking any crap from any weak politicians with a corrupt agenda who are looking to demonize the rich and big business.

  • Reply 31 of 132
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post


    That's cost increases internally not appraised externally. Think of it as the difference between Margin Dollars and Margin %. In other words if I increase the rate of tax on income they owe, that will hit the Margin %, and in turn mean less margin dollars per unit. What will happen to protect those Margin % rates is the fixed cost of the item paid by the consumer goes up to cover the increases. 



     


    Or the quality or features are dropped...thus providing less product for the same nominal price. The effect is the same though.

  • Reply 32 of 132
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,022member


    Let all keep in mind that Cook will be questioned by the same people or government who wrote the loop holes into the tax code. They want to burn at the stake the company who is doing exactly what they wrote into law. If I was Cook he should simple say to the senator to explain to the american public why the allowed the loop hole to exist in the first place. If they were really upset about then change the law.


     


    Honestly this is just grand standing on the part of the governments part they are trying to show the public they are hard on big business which will allow them to get re-elected. Cook and them will put on a show for the viewing public and they all will go out to diner later and ask each other if they believer everyone bought it.

  • Reply 33 of 132
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,022member


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post



    I don't believe Apple is under any kind of investigation, therefore neither Apple nor Cook have an obligation to testify in this hearing. I think Cook is rather foolish to sit in a congressional hearing, being asked questions, and looking like Apple is on trial when it isn't. Cook should have taken a pass and instead, invited a few Senators to discuss tax policy with him at his headquarters in Cupertino without any cameras present. That is how you do things. Now Cook is going to open his big fat mouth, look like a criminal in front of questioning senators, and Apple's stock will fall again.



    Thanks Tim!


     



    Cook is doing it because when the government invites you to have a talk you show up. Just ask M$ and Firestone what happen when you do not show up for their dog and pony show.

  • Reply 34 of 132
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rickag View Post









    Big fail in your logic.



    Ultimately the consumer pays the taxes-period.



    Raise the taxes on corporations and this cost is passed on in the price you and I pay. Corporations don't pay taxes you do, always have always will.


     


    That is the biggest propaganda every extolled by none other than Corporations. Sure, keep raising your prices right out of competitive advantage status, right? Sorry, but maximizing your profit margin is not the concern of government. Research is designed primarily to advance both product development of theoretical science and to take those cost savings as a means to maximize profit margins while meeting your competitors lower prices, at a perceived level of quality differentiation.


     


    How, price alone doesn't win out any more. Quality of product has been proven to create market growth. Apple has consistently shown it does.


     


    Playing on a level field of regulations will only further that advantage. Wall Street is what corporations fear the most. Put in regulations that traders cannot sabotage a corporation price value for leverage over how they do business and make it a criminal series of penalties.


     


    Abolishing Wall Street from every being bailed out again with watchdog rules enforced on how they manipulate the direction of a stock price and suddenly you reign in corruption.


     


    Sorry, but Gold and other rare earth metals will not be where the money is moved. Commodities? Nope. In short, Wall Street will have to get used to lower profit margins and no more 30%+ year over year returns on any investment. It's absurd.


     


    That leaves Real Estate, Land and future technologies to invest in before they have market penetration. The days of Pump n' Dump are coming to an end.

  • Reply 35 of 132
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post


    Cook is doing it because the government invites you to have a talk you show up. Just ask M$ and Firestone what happen when you do not show up for their dog and pony show.



     


    Yeah. Pretty scary isn't it.

  • Reply 36 of 132

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post



    Dear Tim,



    Your ``Apple CEO talks taxes ahead of hearing: 'We pay every dollar that we owe''' wears thin.



    Try this one on for size: Apple CEO talks taxes ahead of hearing: 'We pay only what the present US Tax Code requires.'


     


    What is the difference between the two? Every tax dollar that you owe is every tax dollar that you are required to pay by the US Tax Code. How else do you know what "every dollar that we owe" means? There is a rule book and they are playing by the rules. Don't blame them for taking advantage of loopholes and taking every deduction they are entitled to take. That is what they owe per the law. Is there some higher moral tax code that I am unaware of, and if so, who made you king of that code? Your morals may be different than someone else's.


     


    I doubt you pay "every dollar that you owe"... don't you take deductions? Don't you take the AMT if eligible? Or do you regularly claim more income than you actually receive, leave deductions on the table and ignore the AMT even if you may be eligible? Tax code says each spouse can give up to $14,000 tax free to each of their children and their spouses... but there is also a provision in the code that allows you to give more than that and also avoid paying taxes. So is that wrong? I mean, it's right there in writing for everyone to take advantage of, so why not?


     


    People who make the kinds of statements you are making have obviously never been in business or you feel like we all should walk around with some alternative "moral" tax code in our heads where we all are supposed to give far more back to the government than the government actually says we have to pay. In my opinion, that is not moral - it's moronic.

  • Reply 37 of 132
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    That is the biggest propaganda every extolled by none other than Corporations.



     


    Just because you don't understand (or agree with) something, doesn't make it propaganda.


     


    rickag is correct (though I'd include investors and employees as well as the company customers.)

  • Reply 38 of 132
    tsunami78tsunami78 Posts: 22member
    Good for Tim. Stick by your guns. The US corporate tax rate is damn near 40%. Higher than almost anywhere else in the developed world. Apple is FAR from the only corporation doing this, nor should they be. A publicly traded company's primary job is to produce profits for their shareholders, not fund the US treasury. There is NOTHING wrong with finding the best way to minimize their tax bill. As a matter of fact, I would say it would be irresponsible if CEOs and accountants did NOT structure their businesses in the most tax efficient way.

    Do you claim deductions on your personal taxes? How is that different? If you don't, well I guess you just enjoy having less money and lording your moral authority over the rest of us cheapskates who have the audacity to think we should be allowed to keep the money we have earned and are entitled to.
  • Reply 39 of 132
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I don't understand this, but then I'm not an accountant.


     


    If the corporation raises price of widget but their cost to produce widget is the same, they make more profit and consequently owe more taxes. Where is the part where the consumer pays the taxes?



    That's cost increases internally not appraised externally. Think of it as the difference between Margin Dollars and Margin %. In other words if I increase the rate of tax on income they owe, that will hit the Margin %, and in turn mean less margin dollars per unit. What will happen to protect those Margin % rates is the fixed cost of the item paid by the consumer goes up to cover the increases. 



    In bookkeeping, the balance sheet has three columns, assets, liabilities and ownership equity. Which column does "Margin Dollars" go in?

  • Reply 40 of 132

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post


    Cook is doing it because the government invites you to have a talk you show up. Just ask M$ and Firestone what happen when you do not show up for their dog and pony show.



     


    When the government invites you with a subpoena is when you show up to testify about anything, not voluntarily in front of a bunch of so-called senators who have already expressed a disdain for Apple and business in general. I'm sorry, but I simply would not do this on the basis of principal. If they want my opinion about something, come and ask me. Or let's go to lunch. But to "invite" me to testify in front of a bunch of angry senators who have already made up their minds about what it is that they are "investigating" is about as exciting as having Adolph Hitler invite you over for dinner.

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