Rather than two poorly selling desktops they can create a single product that is neither too 'hot' or too 'cold' and retain some of the key qualities of both.
I tend to think Wizard has his point that the Pro or Mini could serve their customers a little better without trauma.
Even if they don't...the pro and mini will become more appealing by virtue of a more compact Pro with updated ports, a better gpu, faster cpu, SSD...and a price chop...and a mini with gpu enchanced Haswell... I guess the 'natural' evolution will have more 'spread' than currently. Aka. The pro, 'less so' and mini 'more so.'
We'll find out soon enough.
It will be interesting to see if the pro and mini just bring more of the 'same' or get a design overhaul like the iMac which produced a very sleek yet potent AIO.
Rather than two poorly selling desktops they can create a single product that is neither too 'hot' or too 'cold' and retain some of the key qualities of both.
Sounds more like too expensive for a starter, too barebones for a pro.
I still think Apple should engineer the Mini back down to $499 and drop an ad or two about it. Really pump through the marketshare.
Yeah, the desktop touch revolution is coming soon, but it's an older Mini that would be able to jump right into that.
Sounds more like too expensive for a starter, too barebones for a pro.
I still think Apple should engineer the Mini back down to $499 and drop an ad or two about it. Really pump through the marketshare.
Yeah, the desktop touch revolution is coming soon, but it's an older Mini that would be able to jump right into that.
Sounds 'like' - I guess that would be up to Apple. By time you add what you need to a 'mini' it's 'too expensive' for a starter in my view. It has strayed from its path...in much the way the iMac has...to a degree. Prices have become very inflated for the starter configurations on both machines. (And the pro.)
Wizard often says the desktop line is a bit of a mess. I can see what he's getting at.
Apple. They're the ones that can make an iPad for £399 (not the original £1k touted...). Sure, the latter has volume. But Apple has more volume than the average PC 'tower' maker...for desktops.
The mini 'looks' 'mobile' - I don't see them changing it. I'd like them to offer a keyboard and a mouse with it (talk about nickle and diming it...) and lop the price to about £299 inc VAT. Now we're talking. If they can include a retina screen and the latest mobile hardware for a state of the art tablet for £399 I can't see how they couldn't do a £399 Mac with 21 inch screen, keyboard and mouse. It's not like the mini has dedicated graphics...or the starter model has an i7 cpu in it.
As for 'touch screen' desktop 'revolution'? Isn't that what the iPad is?
Or another idea...why not get 'retina' on a desktop moving...and use volume pricing on the iPad to add a '9.7' inch retina screen for the Mac Mini. Then it would be a more complete 'mini Mac' system.
£399 Mac Mini with 9.7 inch retina and k/b and mouse.
But isn't that what the Macbook 'air' will be soon? But they'll charge much more for it?
A 'Mac Mini' with screen (as you'd expect from a company whose primary models are AIO...) Would it be touch? *Shrugs. Who knows when we'll see that for 'X' but isn't iOS 'X' with touch?
If that's what you're getting at?
All I see is the Mini keeping it's luxurious bare bones (ha) price and a 'nice' gpu boost with Haswell. I'm of the view Apple could do 'more' with it. I don't think it's quite cheap enough to be the seller the thought it would be...or value enough.
I still think Apple should engineer the Mini back down to $499 and drop an ad or two about it. Really pump through the marketshare.
I think the root problem with the Mini is the bundle cost. Anyone going into an Apple Store or their online store will see $499 but then add a display, keyboard and mouse and the total would come to over $1500 as opposed to an iMac that starts at $1299.
If they won't build cheaper displays, they need to start selling 3rd party displays like LG:
Even if they had a 1080p 23"/24" for $399 it would be a start. It could be HDMI only, no ports, no Thunderbolt, maybe no iSight. If they could get a bundle with a keyboard and mouse at $899-999, it would help a lot. They're going up against things like this:
The Mini seems to be popular on Amazon - the cheapest one is the best-selling desktop (which suggests the unit itself is ok) but on Amazon, people can source cheaper displays and peripherals. They can't do that with any Apple retail setups.
Of course, if they had a 23/24" + Mini + kb/mouse at $899-999, it would make the 21.5" iMac look quite bad value for money and it reduces their average selling price.
What about a Fusion Drive with a 256 SSD and a 4TB HDD?
That would be nice but I'm not sure if the fusion tech works with partitions over 100 GB. Once you go beyond 256 GB though I think it makes more sense to go the traditional rout of a boot & apps drive balance with a large data drive.
Maybe when I get some free time I can look for developer information on fusion. Still if the drive is big enough personally I'd prefer having my own control over what goes on the SSD.
I wonder if the Mac Pro will emerge from its 1000 day gestation?
It better but then I don't see the chips for a traditional Mac Pro spin. I'm really hoping for something major and ground breaking though.
Just merge the Mini and Pro lines and have one expandable compact box from under a k, to mid k to 2k.
Sounds easy doesn't it? I do think the days of the big tower are gone, the trick is finding the right balance of size and performance.
On the flips side they could turn the Mac Pro into a big box focused on computation. That is a high performance XEON machine coupled with a high performance co processor. The co processor being either Phi or an AMD chip. I just don't see a huge market for such a machine thus the post that suggest that such a machine should have two motherboards one aimed at very low costs and thus a low entry point.
Job done.
Then you'd have 2 desktop lines. Two laptop lines.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Well we all know something needs to be done. I'm just not sure which avenue is best. I'm a big fan of the XMac concept but the option of a low cost motherboard in the Mac Pro might be a more viable avenue. All I know for sure is that the current pricing structure isn't justified and needs to be adjusted to reflect reality.
Even so there is a sub market that buys the Mini for its size and little else. I've seen Minis embedded in machine tools and instrumentation running Windows. Certainly that is a small part of the market but more general users like the Minis size too.
The other thing with the Mini is that new chip technology means the box performs very well now for a variety of uses.
Rather than two poorly selling desktops they can create a single product that is neither too 'hot' or too 'cold' and retain some of the key qualities of both.
I tend to think Wizard has his point that the Pro or Mini could serve their customers a little better without trauma.
Yes I do believe this, it is simply a matter of getting the same engineering resources the laptops get. It is about time too as iPads are hitting laptops hard.
Even if they don't...the pro and mini will become more appealing by virtue of a more compact Pro with updated ports, a better gpu, faster cpu, SSD...and a price chop...and a mini with gpu enchanced Haswell... I guess the 'natural' evolution will have more 'spread' than currently. Aka. The pro, 'less so' and mini 'more so.'
We'll find out soon enough.
It will be interesting to see if the pro and mini just bring more of the 'same' or get a design overhaul like the iMac which produced a very sleek yet potent AIO.
Lemon Bon Bon.
If the Pro is more of the same I won't know what to think. It is the wrong thing to do when the market is in a major transition in my opinion.
Sounds more like too expensive for a starter, too barebones for a pro.
I still think Apple should engineer the Mini back down to $499 and drop an ad or two about it. Really pump through the marketshare.
This might be possible with Haswell desktop chips. Desktop chips might help pricing if they still sell at a discount to mobile chips. In the case of Haswell though I'm not certain there is a huge difference in the chips. But if that pricing differential is still there they might be able to easily know $100 off the base units price.
Yeah, the desktop touch revolution is coming soon, but it's an older Mini that would be able to jump right into that.
I don't see a huge demand for desktop touch. In fact it would be a waste of time in my estimation. Now a non contact gesture based interface - that would be interesting.
I second dropping the base Mac mini to $499 especially if by default it will remain with a 500 GB 5,400rpm HDD.
They should be able to do a SSD at that price though it would be small for many users.
The interesting thing here is that Haswell desktop chips are available in the 45 watt zone. These might not be ideal chips for the Mini but they are getting close to being able to dump the mobile chips. That right there improves pricing possibilities.
That is based on stuff posted to the net awhile back that fusion only supports use on a specific partition size. I don't know if that is true or not. Still my point is if the disk is big enough most users cold better leverage the boot/app disk with a data disk approach vs a fusion approach. Fusions approach is automatic management but with a suitably large boot disk management isn't any different than on a conventional machine.
but they don't typically get used in the Mac Pro as the processors are just single socket. They might be ok in the entry model but dual would be the E5. Usually with the entry model, they use older CPUs but I doubt they'd do that this time. They shouldn't really be using the previous generation starting at $2500 anyway.
Comments
Originally Posted by Winter
…bring on 1 TB.
Hey, you can pay $3000 for your computer if you want, but…
WWDC soon.
I wonder if the Mac Pro will emerge from its 1000 day gestation?
Just merge the Mini and Pro lines and have one expandable compact box from under a k, to mid k to 2k.
Job done.
Then you'd have 2 desktop lines. Two laptop lines.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
Just merge the Mini and Pro lines and have one expandable compact box from under a k, to mid k to 2k.
Then you'd have 2 desktop lines.
What, get rid of the Mac Mini? That'd go over well…
It depends on the quality of the product.
Rather than two poorly selling desktops they can create a single product that is neither too 'hot' or too 'cold' and retain some of the key qualities of both.
I tend to think Wizard has his point that the Pro or Mini could serve their customers a little better without trauma.
Even if they don't...the pro and mini will become more appealing by virtue of a more compact Pro with updated ports, a better gpu, faster cpu, SSD...and a price chop...and a mini with gpu enchanced Haswell... I guess the 'natural' evolution will have more 'spread' than currently. Aka. The pro, 'less so' and mini 'more so.'
We'll find out soon enough.
It will be interesting to see if the pro and mini just bring more of the 'same' or get a design overhaul like the iMac which produced a very sleek yet potent AIO.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
Rather than two poorly selling desktops they can create a single product that is neither too 'hot' or too 'cold' and retain some of the key qualities of both.
Sounds more like too expensive for a starter, too barebones for a pro.
I still think Apple should engineer the Mini back down to $499 and drop an ad or two about it. Really pump through the marketshare.
Yeah, the desktop touch revolution is coming soon, but it's an older Mini that would be able to jump right into that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Sounds more like too expensive for a starter, too barebones for a pro.
I still think Apple should engineer the Mini back down to $499 and drop an ad or two about it. Really pump through the marketshare.
Yeah, the desktop touch revolution is coming soon, but it's an older Mini that would be able to jump right into that.
Sounds 'like' - I guess that would be up to Apple. By time you add what you need to a 'mini' it's 'too expensive' for a starter in my view. It has strayed from its path...in much the way the iMac has...to a degree. Prices have become very inflated for the starter configurations on both machines. (And the pro.)
Wizard often says the desktop line is a bit of a mess. I can see what he's getting at.
Apple. They're the ones that can make an iPad for £399 (not the original £1k touted...). Sure, the latter has volume. But Apple has more volume than the average PC 'tower' maker...for desktops.
The mini 'looks' 'mobile' - I don't see them changing it. I'd like them to offer a keyboard and a mouse with it (talk about nickle and diming it...) and lop the price to about £299 inc VAT. Now we're talking. If they can include a retina screen and the latest mobile hardware for a state of the art tablet for £399 I can't see how they couldn't do a £399 Mac with 21 inch screen, keyboard and mouse. It's not like the mini has dedicated graphics...or the starter model has an i7 cpu in it.
As for 'touch screen' desktop 'revolution'? Isn't that what the iPad is?
It's everything the Mac Mini isn't.
ie Good value for money.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Or another idea...why not get 'retina' on a desktop moving...and use volume pricing on the iPad to add a '9.7' inch retina screen for the Mac Mini. Then it would be a more complete 'mini Mac' system.
£399 Mac Mini with 9.7 inch retina and k/b and mouse.
But isn't that what the Macbook 'air' will be soon? But they'll charge much more for it?
A 'Mac Mini' with screen (as you'd expect from a company whose primary models are AIO...) Would it be touch? *Shrugs. Who knows when we'll see that for 'X' but isn't iOS 'X' with touch?
If that's what you're getting at?
All I see is the Mini keeping it's luxurious bare bones (ha) price and a 'nice' gpu boost with Haswell. I'm of the view Apple could do 'more' with it. I don't think it's quite cheap enough to be the seller the thought it would be...or value enough.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I think the root problem with the Mini is the bundle cost. Anyone going into an Apple Store or their online store will see $499 but then add a display, keyboard and mouse and the total would come to over $1500 as opposed to an iMac that starts at $1299.
If they won't build cheaper displays, they need to start selling 3rd party displays like LG:
http://www.amazon.com/LG-1080p-Slim-Monitor-HDMI/dp/B00CM0QW2G
Even if they had a 1080p 23"/24" for $399 it would be a start. It could be HDMI only, no ports, no Thunderbolt, maybe no iSight. If they could get a bundle with a keyboard and mouse at $899-999, it would help a lot. They're going up against things like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaCentre-23-Inch-Desktop-Aluminum/dp/B00ASJHO5M
The Mini seems to be popular on Amazon - the cheapest one is the best-selling desktop (which suggests the unit itself is ok) but on Amazon, people can source cheaper displays and peripherals. They can't do that with any Apple retail setups.
Of course, if they had a 23/24" + Mini + kb/mouse at $899-999, it would make the 21.5" iMac look quite bad value for money and it reduces their average selling price.
That would be nice but I'm not sure if the fusion tech works with partitions over 100 GB. Once you go beyond 256 GB though I think it makes more sense to go the traditional rout of a boot & apps drive balance with a large data drive.
Maybe when I get some free time I can look for developer information on fusion. Still if the drive is big enough personally I'd prefer having my own control over what goes on the SSD.
Originally Posted by wizard69
That would be nice but I'm not sure if the fusion tech works with partitions over 100 GB.
… Huh? Fusion Drives start with 128 as the SSD…
On the flips side they could turn the Mac Pro into a big box focused on computation. That is a high performance XEON machine coupled with a high performance co processor. The co processor being either Phi or an AMD chip. I just don't see a huge market for such a machine thus the post that suggest that such a machine should have two motherboards one aimed at very low costs and thus a low entry point.
Well we all know something needs to be done. I'm just not sure which avenue is best. I'm a big fan of the XMac concept but the option of a low cost motherboard in the Mac Pro might be a more viable avenue. All I know for sure is that the current pricing structure isn't justified and needs to be adjusted to reflect reality.
The other thing with the Mini is that new chip technology means the box performs very well now for a variety of uses. Yes I do believe this, it is simply a matter of getting the same engineering resources the laptops get. It is about time too as iPads are hitting laptops hard. If the Pro is more of the same I won't know what to think. It is the wrong thing to do when the market is in a major transition in my opinion.
I don't see a huge demand for desktop touch. In fact it would be a waste of time in my estimation. Now a non contact gesture based interface - that would be interesting.
They should be able to do a SSD at that price though it would be small for many users.
The interesting thing here is that Haswell desktop chips are available in the 45 watt zone. These might not be ideal chips for the Mini but they are getting close to being able to dump the mobile chips. That right there improves pricing possibilities.
That is based on stuff posted to the net awhile back that fusion only supports use on a specific partition size. I don't know if that is true or not. Still my point is if the disk is big enough most users cold better leverage the boot/app disk with a data disk approach vs a fusion approach. Fusions approach is automatic management but with a suitably large boot disk management isn't any different than on a conventional machine.
Will need to read up on fusion drive though.
Xeon Haswell E3 3.5Ghz quad-core server processors are now in stock at Newegg.
Originally Posted by Conrail
Xeon Haswell E3 3.5Ghz quad-core server processors are now in stock at Newegg.
That's not Haswell.
E3 ones are Haswell:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116909
http://ark.intel.com/products/series/75143
but they don't typically get used in the Mac Pro as the processors are just single socket. They might be ok in the entry model but dual would be the E5. Usually with the entry model, they use older CPUs but I doubt they'd do that this time. They shouldn't really be using the previous generation starting at $2500 anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's not Haswell.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116904