I hope this doesn't preclude Apple from getting a hold of or licensing Nokia's map tech. I believe Nokia has something similar to street view, but in 3D mapping form similar to Flyover, which would be very interesting to see integrated into Apple Maps. Also, as someone else pointed out, it's pretty funny to see everyone spending the big bucks to follow in Apple's (vertically integrated) footsteps.
Purchasing a tech company's IP and then cutting off those services to competitors probably wouldn't be in Microsoft's best interests. I think they'd rather have the extra income more than they'd want to try and screw the competition.
Hardly the same. Very smart move by Microsoft. Motorola is not Nokia.
Philip
It's the only move they could make. Nokia is about the only phone maker that actually sells Windows phones in any decent quantities. I'm just wondering how long it's going to take Microsoft to buy Dell and start making their own labeled desktops and laptops to be able to catch up to Apple's Revenue and Profit levels.
I think Microsoft's profit margins are going to start eroding since they are becoming more of a hardware company which has much lower profit margins.
$7.2 Billion? Nokia lost $5 Billion last year. I wonder how long it's going to take to recoup their money... Ooops.
Microsoft seems to like spending billions of dollars buying companies that are on financial skids? Smooth move Ballmer.
Nokia was not at all in financial trouble before Elop took over. This was a textbook destruction of a viable company. If Nokia would have (and I am not an Android fan at all) bet on Android, then Samsung would be in trouble.
Nokia's engineers and distribution network are easily worth $7.2bn, if you have the products to push... Luckily, MS hasn't.
That makes a lot of sense. It's good to know it's an option. After my post I found this quote from Nokia, that they want to be the
"leading independent location cloud platform company, offering mapping and location services across different screens and operating systems."
Yeah, they are quite big in car navigation systems, a lot of premium brands use their stuff - but they don't have any profits. Just, Bing has own maps, Google has maps, Apple has maps... Where does that leave them? MS did feature their services as long as they needed them... I expect that to stop rather soon. AND, not to be forgotten, MS's own car services (Ford Sync) are MS-driven, Apple's iOS in the Car has plenty of subscribers already. They have a product, but no longer a platform. I am no genius, but I have a certain idea how that will end.
I wonder if there's going to be a shareholder's lawsuit since Nokia actually has quite a bit of cash sitting in short term/ long term investments. I mean, the market cap is $14 Bil, so Microsoft isn't paying much for the company in those terms, they are getting them dirt cheap actually.
Yeah, they are quite big in car navigation systems, a lot of premium brands use their stuff - but they don't have any profits. Just, Bing has own maps, Google has maps, Apple has maps... Where does that leave them? MS did feature their services as long as they needed them... I expect that to stop rather soon. AND, not to be forgotten, MS's own car services (Ford Sync) are MS-driven, Apple's iOS in the Car has plenty of subscribers already. They have a product, but no longer a platform. I am no genius, but I have a certain idea how that will end.
Seems like they could be a big asset for Apple's maps though, particularly as Apple seems to have somewhat of a weakness in areas outside of the US (unless I'm just being misled by trolls), which is presumably a strength for Nokia. Also, Nokia's flyover/street view hybrid tech seems pretty impressive.
If Apple did choose to do a street view type function, I think they would want another company doing the grunt work of driving the camera equipped cars around. And with google's needlessly aggressive/expensive acquisition of Waze, it seems like Apple's options may be limited.
Here's the first main link that popped up on Yahoo about the Nokia maps tech:
Sounds like a great idea to me. Now MS can be in control of the hardware and software (you know, like Apple does).
It'll work out great for them! Now they can avoid failures like the Zune, where they controlled the hardware… and… the software… Well, at least they won't screw up like they did with the Kin, where they controlled the soft… ware and the hardware… But seriously now, really, they can't screw up like they did with the Surface, where Microsoft was critical in the design of the software… and… the… hard… Look, but… what about the Xbox! There Microsoft only had control over the…
I wonder if there's going to be a shareholder's lawsuit since Nokia actually has quite a bit of cash sitting in short term/ long term investments. I mean, the market cap is $14 Bil, so Microsoft isn't paying much for the company in those terms, they are getting them dirt cheap actually.
Well, they have quite some debt, too. And the latest ER's cash/equivalent positions do not reflect the 50% of NSN acquisition from Siemens yet (which reduces cash and increases debts), as it only becomes effective in the current quarter.
What I am not really clear about right now is in how far Nokia's share holders could boycott this deal, as the remainder of Nokia is really worth nothing.
Seems like they could be a big asset for Apple's maps though, particularly as Apple seems to have somewhat of a weakness in areas outside of the US (unless I'm just being misled by trolls), which is presumably a strength for Nokia. Also, Nokia's flyover/street view hybrid tech seems pretty impressive.
Not misled. Apple's POI data in many parts of Europe and Asia is terrible. And Nokia, not in their garbage iOS HERE app, but otherwise, does have better data (don't know much about the street view stuff, as I really have no need for it - never even used it in Google Maps). And I certainly have no idea if Apple would be interested. What I do know is that Apple is putting quite some effort into "fixing" maps on their own - they hired tons of additional people globally and acquired several small companies to complement their mapping product. If they still want to look into something big externally... I just don't know. But then... Apple has tons of "foreign" cash as well, most of it sitting in Europe. A useful acquisition without paying 30% in taxes could make sense.
Elop drove it into the ground to make it cheap for Microsoft to buy the division. What a huge surprise.
Nobody saw it coming.
Except the zillion or so bloggers that mentioned it when Elop was selected as CEO and promptly flushed everything down the toilet to focus Nokia on the wonder that is "Windows Phone".
Since Apple and Microsoft have a patent agreement, then Apple can use Nokia technology patents, right?
Possibly but I doubt it as the article first states that MS did not buy the patents but is only licensing the patents but later the wording makes it seem like MS is buying the patents. So only with more time along with more clarification will we have a clue.
I wonder if there's going to be a shareholder's lawsuit since Nokia actually has quite a bit of cash sitting in short term/ long term investments. I mean, the market cap is $14 Bil, so Microsoft isn't paying much for the company in those terms, they are getting them dirt cheap actually.
You are confusing the entire Nokia company and its assets with the part that Microsoft is buying.
"Under the terms of the agreement, Microsoft will pay EUR 3.79 billion to purchase substantially all of Nokia’s Devices & Services business, and EUR 1.65 billion to license Nokia’s patents, for a total transaction price of EUR 5.44 billion in cash."
Looks like Nokia will retain their HERE services and just licensing use to Microsoft. So Nokia will still own what was Navteq. Plus they are joint owners of Nokia Siemens Networks which is hardware, software, and services for telecommunications networks. Plus they keep their over 40,000 patents and all those assets you pointed out. This lets them dump their mobile business that was not going anywhere and stuff the $5 Billion EUR in the bank and focus on their new future.
I'm guessing the shareholders will approve, but after some initial pushback because they are loosing the most visible part of the business that the country of Finland was so proud of. When they realize it was already lost long ago, they will take the money and run. My $.02...
Since Apple and Microsoft have a patent agreement, then Apple can use Nokia technology patents, right?
Possibly but I doubt it as the article first states that MS did not buy the patents but is only licensing the patents but later the wording makes it seem like MS is buying the patents. So only with more time along with more clarification will we have a clue.
Under the terms of the agreement, Microsoft will pay EUR 3.79 billion to purchase substantially all of Nokia’s Devices & Services business, and EUR 1.65 billion to license Nokia’s patents, for a total transaction price of EUR 5.44 billion in cash.
Possibly but I doubt it as the article first states that MS did not buy the patents but is only licensing the patents but later the wording makes it seem like MS is buying the patents. So only with more time along with more clarification will we have a clue.
Several articles on the web, from Forbes, CNBC, WSJ etc. did clarify that MS bought a license to use Nokia patents for 10 years (obviously irrespective of the amount of devices using them). So, Nokia still owns the patents and MS makes a bet... that they will sell enough devices to make that worthwhile.
Does this mean we can expect a Nokia Surface now? (Or, more likely, the "Microsoft Nokia Surface Windows RT" given the catchy names Microsoft usually comes up with.)
Does this mean we can expect a Nokia Surface now? (Or, more likely, the "Microsoft Nokia Surface Windows RT" given the catchy names Microsoft usually comes up with.)
Not more than you're likely to see a "Microsoft Nokia Xbox One, Zune, or KIN."
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate
I hope this doesn't preclude Apple from getting a hold of or licensing Nokia's map tech. I believe Nokia has something similar to street view, but in 3D mapping form similar to Flyover, which would be very interesting to see integrated into Apple Maps. Also, as someone else pointed out, it's pretty funny to see everyone spending the big bucks to follow in Apple's (vertically integrated) footsteps.
Purchasing a tech company's IP and then cutting off those services to competitors probably wouldn't be in Microsoft's best interests. I think they'd rather have the extra income more than they'd want to try and screw the competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd
Hardly the same. Very smart move by Microsoft. Motorola is not Nokia.
Philip
It's the only move they could make. Nokia is about the only phone maker that actually sells Windows phones in any decent quantities. I'm just wondering how long it's going to take Microsoft to buy Dell and start making their own labeled desktops and laptops to be able to catch up to Apple's Revenue and Profit levels.
I think Microsoft's profit margins are going to start eroding since they are becoming more of a hardware company which has much lower profit margins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
$7.2 Billion? Nokia lost $5 Billion last year. I wonder how long it's going to take to recoup their money... Ooops.
Microsoft seems to like spending billions of dollars buying companies that are on financial skids? Smooth move Ballmer.
Nokia was not at all in financial trouble before Elop took over. This was a textbook destruction of a viable company. If Nokia would have (and I am not an Android fan at all) bet on Android, then Samsung would be in trouble.
Nokia's engineers and distribution network are easily worth $7.2bn, if you have the products to push... Luckily, MS hasn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate
That makes a lot of sense. It's good to know it's an option. After my post I found this quote from Nokia, that they want to be the
"leading independent location cloud platform company, offering mapping and location services across different screens and operating systems."
Yeah, they are quite big in car navigation systems, a lot of premium brands use their stuff - but they don't have any profits. Just, Bing has own maps, Google has maps, Apple has maps... Where does that leave them? MS did feature their services as long as they needed them... I expect that to stop rather soon. AND, not to be forgotten, MS's own car services (Ford Sync) are MS-driven, Apple's iOS in the Car has plenty of subscribers already. They have a product, but no longer a platform. I am no genius, but I have a certain idea how that will end.
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
... Microsoft's Windows Phone is a minor player in the segment.
$7.2 billion is a lot to spend on a mobile segment exit strategy.
But Microsoft had to buy Nokia within 12 months of Ballmer's retirement announcement.
That way, the Microsoft board can blame it on Ballmer and retreat back to Windows + Office on the desktop.
I wonder if there's going to be a shareholder's lawsuit since Nokia actually has quite a bit of cash sitting in short term/ long term investments. I mean, the market cap is $14 Bil, so Microsoft isn't paying much for the company in those terms, they are getting them dirt cheap actually.
Sounds like a great idea to me. Now MS can be in control of the hardware and software (you know, like Apple does).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2
Yeah, they are quite big in car navigation systems, a lot of premium brands use their stuff - but they don't have any profits. Just, Bing has own maps, Google has maps, Apple has maps... Where does that leave them? MS did feature their services as long as they needed them... I expect that to stop rather soon. AND, not to be forgotten, MS's own car services (Ford Sync) are MS-driven, Apple's iOS in the Car has plenty of subscribers already. They have a product, but no longer a platform. I am no genius, but I have a certain idea how that will end.
Seems like they could be a big asset for Apple's maps though, particularly as Apple seems to have somewhat of a weakness in areas outside of the US (unless I'm just being misled by trolls), which is presumably a strength for Nokia. Also, Nokia's flyover/street view hybrid tech seems pretty impressive.
If Apple did choose to do a street view type function, I think they would want another company doing the grunt work of driving the camera equipped cars around. And with google's needlessly aggressive/expensive acquisition of Waze, it seems like Apple's options may be limited.
Here's the first main link that popped up on Yahoo about the Nokia maps tech:
http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-hey-we-do-fancy-maps-too-not-just-google-25253990/
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
Sounds like a great idea to me. Now MS can be in control of the hardware and software (you know, like Apple does).
It'll work out great for them! Now they can avoid failures like the Zune, where they controlled the hardware… and… the software… Well, at least they won't screw up like they did with the Kin, where they controlled the soft… ware and the hardware… But seriously now, really, they can't screw up like they did with the Surface, where Microsoft was critical in the design of the software… and… the… hard… Look, but… what about the Xbox! There Microsoft only had control over the…
Geez, Redmond, get it together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
I wonder if there's going to be a shareholder's lawsuit since Nokia actually has quite a bit of cash sitting in short term/ long term investments. I mean, the market cap is $14 Bil, so Microsoft isn't paying much for the company in those terms, they are getting them dirt cheap actually.
Well, they have quite some debt, too. And the latest ER's cash/equivalent positions do not reflect the 50% of NSN acquisition from Siemens yet (which reduces cash and increases debts), as it only becomes effective in the current quarter.
What I am not really clear about right now is in how far Nokia's share holders could boycott this deal, as the remainder of Nokia is really worth nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyThePirate
Seems like they could be a big asset for Apple's maps though, particularly as Apple seems to have somewhat of a weakness in areas outside of the US (unless I'm just being misled by trolls), which is presumably a strength for Nokia. Also, Nokia's flyover/street view hybrid tech seems pretty impressive.
Not misled. Apple's POI data in many parts of Europe and Asia is terrible. And Nokia, not in their garbage iOS HERE app, but otherwise, does have better data (don't know much about the street view stuff, as I really have no need for it - never even used it in Google Maps). And I certainly have no idea if Apple would be interested. What I do know is that Apple is putting quite some effort into "fixing" maps on their own - they hired tons of additional people globally and acquired several small companies to complement their mapping product. If they still want to look into something big externally... I just don't know. But then... Apple has tons of "foreign" cash as well, most of it sitting in Europe. A useful acquisition without paying 30% in taxes could make sense.
Nobody saw it coming.
Except the zillion or so bloggers that mentioned it when Elop was selected as CEO and promptly flushed everything down the toilet to focus Nokia on the wonder that is "Windows Phone".
I think I remember one or more people on AI predicting this when it was announced that Elop was hired by Nokia.
One thing this does is eliminate Microsoft as a potential bidder for Blackberry. Now who wants BBRY?
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney
I think I remember one or more people on AI predicting this when it was announced that Elop was hired by Nokia.
One thing this does is eliminate Microsoft as a potential bidder for Blackberry. Now who wants BBRY?
Same as before....nobody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Since Apple and Microsoft have a patent agreement, then Apple can use Nokia technology patents, right?
Possibly but I doubt it as the article first states that MS did not buy the patents but is only licensing the patents but later the wording makes it seem like MS is buying the patents. So only with more time along with more clarification will we have a clue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
I wonder if there's going to be a shareholder's lawsuit since Nokia actually has quite a bit of cash sitting in short term/ long term investments. I mean, the market cap is $14 Bil, so Microsoft isn't paying much for the company in those terms, they are getting them dirt cheap actually.
You are confusing the entire Nokia company and its assets with the part that Microsoft is buying.
"Under the terms of the agreement, Microsoft will pay EUR 3.79 billion to purchase substantially all of Nokia’s Devices & Services business, and EUR 1.65 billion to license Nokia’s patents, for a total transaction price of EUR 5.44 billion in cash."
Looks like Nokia will retain their HERE services and just licensing use to Microsoft. So Nokia will still own what was Navteq. Plus they are joint owners of Nokia Siemens Networks which is hardware, software, and services for telecommunications networks. Plus they keep their over 40,000 patents and all those assets you pointed out. This lets them dump their mobile business that was not going anywhere and stuff the $5 Billion EUR in the bank and focus on their new future.
I'm guessing the shareholders will approve, but after some initial pushback because they are loosing the most visible part of the business that the country of Finland was so proud of. When they realize it was already lost long ago, they will take the money and run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
Since Apple and Microsoft have a patent agreement, then Apple can use Nokia technology patents, right?
Possibly but I doubt it as the article first states that MS did not buy the patents but is only licensing the patents but later the wording makes it seem like MS is buying the patents. So only with more time along with more clarification will we have a clue.
Under the terms of the agreement, Microsoft will pay EUR 3.79 billion to purchase substantially all of Nokia’s Devices & Services business, and EUR 1.65 billion to license Nokia’s patents, for a total transaction price of EUR 5.44 billion in cash.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2013/Sep13/09-02AnnouncementPR.aspx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic
Possibly but I doubt it as the article first states that MS did not buy the patents but is only licensing the patents but later the wording makes it seem like MS is buying the patents. So only with more time along with more clarification will we have a clue.
Several articles on the web, from Forbes, CNBC, WSJ etc. did clarify that MS bought a license to use Nokia patents for 10 years (obviously irrespective of the amount of devices using them). So, Nokia still owns the patents and MS makes a bet... that they will sell enough devices to make that worthwhile.
Not more than you're likely to see a "Microsoft Nokia Xbox One, Zune, or KIN."