I can't believe I'm saying this but even I want want of those plastic iPhones, despite knowing full well it's just an iPhone 5 in a plastic shell. And I'm typing this comment from my iPhone 5! That either means I'm bat shit insane or Apple got it right. "Here's to the crazy ones!" Of course, I'll be getting the 5S, not the 5C, cause first and foremost I'm a technology nut.
So you want the 5c, but admit you're getting the 5s? " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
That doesn't prove that Apple got it right. I think that the stock would be higher today if there was no 5c announced at all.
"Munster was expecting Apple to sell 50 million $300 iPhones in 2014, growing to 100 million in 2015, with 15 percent gross margin." -- To me, this means: 50 million units times $45 of profit per phone (15% of $300) = $2.5 Billion in profits in 2014. Instead, assuming the same build costs Munster used ~$255/phone and Apple sells half as many as Munster predicted but with $294 per phone profit.....= $7.35 Billion in profit. So, how does that hurt Apple and investors?
Tallest Skill and the other frothing cultists have declared yesterday the single most important moment in all humanity - the greatest innovation of all collective human experience and knowledge was rolled out in a plastic phone...
When did Tea Party style player-hating ever slither it's way into discussions about Apple? Give it a rest! If anyone is criticle of Apple it is us! You just hate for whatever reason.
It's just not in Apple's DNA to build cheap crap. I have no idea what investors were expecting.
An iPhone like the 'iPod nano' or 'shuffle' just would not be possible without huge sacrifices in performance or quality and would make life difficult for devs having vastly different specs.
The chart I posted on the previous page shows that the stock drop after iPhone 4 was announced was just as bad percentage wise.
That is true. With a few exceptions, AAPL historically drops after major product releases. That's why I even got bold and shorted AAPL yesterday for a quick trade.
However, and I don't recall 100%, but if I'm not mistaken, I don't believe that those previous drops were accompanied by multiple downgrades. And even on those prior drops, AAPL usually quickly recovers again. We shall see what happens this time. We will have our answer after Apple reveals how many phones were sold over the opening weekend.
So? Who cares what the stock price is at a point in time? The stock fluctuated a lot under Jobs. The same is happening under Cook and will probably always be the case with Apple.
So? Who cares what the stock price is at a point in time? The stock fluctuated a lot under Jobs. The same is happening under Cook and will probably always be the case with Apple.
I must admit, I do not see the market Apple is intending to target with the 5C. In the contract free world, it's too expensive for most (especially outside the US). At most it seems like the close price point will just canibalize sales from the 5s.
Seems to me the only thing the 5C brings to the table is colors. It might also increase supply if they can pump these out faster than the 5 and avoid impinging on the 5s lines.
ANALyst are idiots. the 5C brings last year 5 with the usual $100 reduction, but with a much easier to manufacture (even if it is still very complex so costly) process.
That means that margins will be better, both from usual repeat orders downcosts & new process. They will probably make more margin on the 5C than on the 5S. On a phone guaranteed to be a success.
With the addition of docomo & china mobile to add this is big.
Exactly. The new China Mobile / Docomo deals are the real news. Investor are a fickle bunch. They'll be back.
Could just ONE analyst be fired for incompetence, please? One of them. Start small. I need some validation that the entire market isn't now completely full of idiots.
NO!!!!
They are very valuable to me... I just do the exact opposite of what they say....
This pricing seems very shortsighted. They seem to want to maintain their extremely high profit margins at the cost of losing market share and customers.... As a stockholder I really hope I am proven wrong and it sells beyond the wildest expectations in BRIC type countries and in the 1st world as well....
As a stockholder, you are the reason they want to maintain high profit margins. Qwitcherbellyachin!
I guess I'm the only reader here that thinks the stock market is a bunch of unstable opinion BS that shouldn't even exist in an economy that wants to be healthy. But then again, the wealthy bastards in power don't want it to be healthy because they're making more money than ever before, despite economic crashes.
That is true. With a few exceptions, AAPL historically drops after major product releases. That's why I even got bold and shorted AAPL yesterday for a quick trade.
However, and I don't recall 100%, but if I'm not mistaken, I don't believe that those previous drops were accompanied by multiple downgrades. And even on those prior drops, AAPL usually quickly recovers again. We shall see what happens this time. We will have our answer after Apple reveals how many phones were sold over the opening weekend.
I honestly could care less about Wall Street and I hold Apple stock. They want their cake and eat it too with Apple. No one at Apple ever indicated the company was going to make a cheap phone. It's not like they failed to deliver on something they promised because a cheap phone was never promised. Now maybe Apple could have leaked something to the WSJ or Bloomberg to dampen expectations of a cheap phone. But really its not Apple's fault if Wall Street gets a prediction wrong. And as you say it's all about sales. Either sales will be huge and these guys will have egg on their faces or sales will disappoint and Apple will be faced with having to lower prices (like they did with the original iPhone).
When did Tea Party style player-hating ever slither it's way into discussions about Apple? Give it a rest! If anyone is criticle of Apple it is us! You just hate for whatever reason.
I must admit, I do not see the market Apple is intending to target with the 5C. In the contract free world, it's too expensive for most (especially outside the US). At most it seems like the close price point will just canibalize sales from the 5s.
Seems to me the only thing the 5C brings to the table is colors. It might also increase supply if they can pump these out faster than the 5 and avoid impinging on the 5s lines.
I think the 5S will sell as well if not better than the 5... but I think the 5C needs to be bumped down at least $20, but no more than $30.
To me, $130 difference sounds much more than $100 difference.
5C is a respectable IPhone however wouldn't most people that are buying this iPhone rather spend another $100 and get the 5S??
Pricing is too high for the China market where Apple wants to be big in
You know, If Apple can sales its whole production at current price, why they need to have a cheap product? Apple doesn't need to be big in China, they doesn't care at all about making cheap products and flooding the market with no margin device like most Android mfg about to die battling each other with poor product.
Yet, when Amazon lowers prices on Kindle, AWS, and starts requiring payment of state sales tax, Their stock price goes up 17% on profits of... nothing... they're losing money [sort of... they make money on the cashflow... smart]
Or Google, who can't make decent hardware even after spending 15B to do so, is losing ad revenue, and is building out cheap Fiber Networks to the world.... there stock is up 30% over the last year... on 1/3rd the profit (adjusting for market cap).
What's their vision?
Everyone buying a kindle to replace their iPad? Google Glass? self driving cars? right....
What's the difference?
Apple's Vision is beyond the scope of the 90 day limit of the standard investor. The problem stock price is all about perception, and Apple's message is beyond what analysts can grok, therefore they have no perception, therefore no price.
If Apple doubles in revenues and profits again, (likely), my guess is their stock price will go up by 50%... putting their P/E under around 8.
And I do think it will double again.
Why.
The just built a plastic phone... If it really is as quality [lasts 2+ years] as they say it is ... they can build more different phones faster. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the 'c' line will likely change more frequently than annual... no reason for the 'c' line not to have a refresh at 8months to include stuff on the current 5s, then pump out the 6 in 12, then push a 3rd c out with stuff that was in the 5s (retire it the 5s), then in 2years push out the '6c' and the 6s.
The key here is that the 'c' is a fashion device. It can be released in more SKU combinations (less cost to retool a line).
plastic also is easier to build out at different sizes. More chance for a 5" iPhone now (or Ipad Mini 6")
A plastic 10" iPad... likely. the 'edu' model. The long game is to have every person in the world who is learning to read/write, to do so on an iPad. (Grow your ecosystem early...)
iOS(OR... MacOSX ARM... take your pick .... or better... dual boot;-)) based laptops. 64bit is a compute platform... and given their heat/performance index... an 4 gang A8(quad) (16 procs... whole bunch of gpu) laptop comes into play. Oh, you're not paying intel for the Haswell. or Nvidia for graphics. (or just the threat;-).
While all this is happening the cloud gets more stable and ubiquitous. AppStore/iCloud evolve to be the real profit center for Apple, and Apple starts to crowd paypal and amazon with their TouchID verification.
No, that's not a valid option. I already don't read them. That's not good enough. They need PUNISHED for their LIES. Should anyone in any occupation be allowed to just lie for a living? No jokes here, please.
Tallest, you seem to be forgetting that, in almost every case where analysts and tech media have slammed Apple's new products, they've gone on to sell in record numbers. Just treat it as a sign that it's going to be another record-breaking year for Apple.
Comments
I can't believe I'm saying this but even I want want of those plastic iPhones, despite knowing full well it's just an iPhone 5 in a plastic shell. And I'm typing this comment from my iPhone 5! That either means I'm bat shit insane or Apple got it right. "Here's to the crazy ones!" Of course, I'll be getting the 5S, not the 5C, cause first and foremost I'm a technology nut.
So you want the 5c, but admit you're getting the 5s?
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
That doesn't prove that Apple got it right. I think that the stock would be higher today if there was no 5c announced at all.
When did Tea Party style player-hating ever slither it's way into discussions about Apple? Give it a rest! If anyone is criticle of Apple it is us! You just hate for whatever reason.
And what phone ever had an easily replaceable case? Besides, there are third parties who will pop up and fill that "void".
Some of the Lumia phones and the Moto X, I believe.
It's just not in Apple's DNA to build cheap crap. I have no idea what investors were expecting.
An iPhone like the 'iPod nano' or 'shuffle' just would not be possible without huge sacrifices in performance or quality and would make life difficult for devs having vastly different specs.
I think Apple nailed it.
The chart I posted on the previous page shows that the stock drop after iPhone 4 was announced was just as bad percentage wise.
That is true. With a few exceptions, AAPL historically drops after major product releases. That's why I even got bold and shorted AAPL yesterday for a quick trade.
However, and I don't recall 100%, but if I'm not mistaken, I don't believe that those previous drops were accompanied by multiple downgrades. And even on those prior drops, AAPL usually quickly recovers again. We shall see what happens this time. We will have our answer after Apple reveals how many phones were sold over the opening weekend.
Apple just cant win. If they had a lower price for the 5c the same people would downgrade the stock because of fear over margins.....
I bought in at $400 and I think I am going to buy more now....
So? Who cares what the stock price is at a point in time? The stock fluctuated a lot under Jobs. The same is happening under Cook and will probably always be the case with Apple.
You obviously care. You started this.
Seems to me the only thing the 5C brings to the table is colors. It might also increase supply if they can pump these out faster than the 5 and avoid impinging on the 5s lines.
Exactly. The new China Mobile / Docomo deals are the real news. Investor are a fickle bunch. They'll be back.
Could just ONE analyst be fired for incompetence, please? One of them. Start small. I need some validation that the entire market isn't now completely full of idiots.
NO!!!!
They are very valuable to me... I just do the exact opposite of what they say....
This pricing seems very shortsighted. They seem to want to maintain their extremely high profit margins at the cost of losing market share and customers.... As a stockholder I really hope I am proven wrong and it sells beyond the wildest expectations in BRIC type countries and in the 1st world as well....
As a stockholder, you are the reason they want to maintain high profit margins. Qwitcherbellyachin!
Since 19ALWAYS.
I must admit, I do not see the market Apple is intending to target with the 5C. In the contract free world, it's too expensive for most (especially outside the US). At most it seems like the close price point will just canibalize sales from the 5s.
Seems to me the only thing the 5C brings to the table is colors. It might also increase supply if they can pump these out faster than the 5 and avoid impinging on the 5s lines.
I think the 5S will sell as well if not better than the 5... but I think the 5C needs to be bumped down at least $20, but no more than $30.
To me, $130 difference sounds much more than $100 difference.
5C is a respectable IPhone however wouldn't most people that are buying this iPhone rather spend another $100 and get the 5S??
Pricing is too high for the China market where Apple wants to be big in
You know, If Apple can sales its whole production at current price, why they need to have a cheap product? Apple doesn't need to be big in China, they doesn't care at all about making cheap products and flooding the market with no margin device like most Android mfg about to die battling each other with poor product.
It's because of a few factors:
- No TV
- Mac Pro rumored to cost $8,000
- No vision for the future
Yet, when Amazon lowers prices on Kindle, AWS, and starts requiring payment of state sales tax, Their stock price goes up 17% on profits of... nothing... they're losing money [sort of... they make money on the cashflow... smart]
Or Google, who can't make decent hardware even after spending 15B to do so, is losing ad revenue, and is building out cheap Fiber Networks to the world.... there stock is up 30% over the last year... on 1/3rd the profit (adjusting for market cap).
What's their vision?
Everyone buying a kindle to replace their iPad? Google Glass? self driving cars? right....
What's the difference?
Apple's Vision is beyond the scope of the 90 day limit of the standard investor. The problem stock price is all about perception, and Apple's message is beyond what analysts can grok, therefore they have no perception, therefore no price.
If Apple doubles in revenues and profits again, (likely), my guess is their stock price will go up by 50%... putting their P/E under around 8.
And I do think it will double again.
Why.
The just built a plastic phone... If it really is as quality [lasts 2+ years] as they say it is ... they can build more different phones faster. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the 'c' line will likely change more frequently than annual... no reason for the 'c' line not to have a refresh at 8months to include stuff on the current 5s, then pump out the 6 in 12, then push a 3rd c out with stuff that was in the 5s (retire it the 5s), then in 2years push out the '6c' and the 6s.
The key here is that the 'c' is a fashion device. It can be released in more SKU combinations (less cost to retool a line).
plastic also is easier to build out at different sizes. More chance for a 5" iPhone now (or Ipad Mini 6")
A plastic 10" iPad... likely. the 'edu' model. The long game is to have every person in the world who is learning to read/write, to do so on an iPad. (Grow your ecosystem early...)
iOS(OR... MacOSX ARM... take your pick .... or better... dual boot;-)) based laptops. 64bit is a compute platform... and given their heat/performance index... an 4 gang A8(quad) (16 procs... whole bunch of gpu) laptop comes into play. Oh, you're not paying intel for the Haswell. or Nvidia for graphics. (or just the threat;-).
While all this is happening the cloud gets more stable and ubiquitous. AppStore/iCloud evolve to be the real profit center for Apple, and Apple starts to crowd paypal and amazon with their TouchID verification.
No, that's not a valid option. I already don't read them. That's not good enough. They need PUNISHED for their LIES. Should anyone in any occupation be allowed to just lie for a living? No jokes here, please.
Tallest, you seem to be forgetting that, in almost every case where analysts and tech media have slammed Apple's new products, they've gone on to sell in record numbers. Just treat it as a sign that it's going to be another record-breaking year for Apple.