Sometimes I wonder if anyone who writes for this publication has a brain.
Let's see if any of the bright readers who can do a bit of math can put this together:
1. This analyst claims that of the 9 million units sold, approximately half were the 5s and half were the 5c.
2. Usage data suggest that approximately 78% of the phones tracked were 5s and 22% were 5c.
3. The analyst mentions that there is a difference between sell-in and sell-through, but this article doesn't try to explain what the significance is or even come close to understanding why this is significant.
4. An Apple bull suggests that the 'real' sales were closer to 5.5 million units.
Moral of the story?
There are a lot of people out there spewing nonsense about subjects that they couldn't possibly have information on.
The only real number we have is that Apple sold 9 M phones over the weekend.
We also have reports that 5S phones are appearing in various usage stats 3 times as often as 5C phones. The data might be correct, but may not be useful - because there's no way to know whether the data is representative of the entire world. Therefore, the data is somewhat questionable.
The rest is simply made up garbage with absolutely no methodology and no reason at all to believe that it is valid. And considering that Munster, in particular, has been so far off on his previous predictions, there's no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.
"C" is for cheap. It was a bad choice, in my opinion. They should have just left it iPhone 5, and marketed it as the same great iPhone with a stylish new look. Plus it deviates from Apple's standard product naming convention.
'C' was never for cheap. It's clearly for color.
As for the rest, please let us know how many multibillion dollar products you've produced and marketed and why your opinion is right while Apple is wrong. They've decided that a new case design was a good idea for some reason - and the results bear that out. I'm guessing that they wanted to differentiate the 'better' phone from the 'best' phone or they wanted to have a phone that appeals to a different audience. Regardless of the reason, though, there's absolutely no reason to believe that you know more about it than Apple.
Plastic: Hmmm... this is my least favorite reason. Do enough people think plastic is better? Does Apple really have to offer a phone of this type to compete with competitors offering? Are the competitors offerings selling?
I wish Apple would have went with aluminum enclosures (ala iPod Touch & Nano) for the 5c especially at the price points they chose. Perhaps an all aluminum case would cause problems with cellular radio transmission and reception. Maybe not forever though:
Mr Cook himself said the demand for the 5S and 5C was amazing. Are you telling me he is lying? ARE YOU HERMIT!
Cook didn't specifically say the numbers. He also didn't specifically say 5s and 5c. He said new iPhones. Yes, we know the 5s was flying off the shelves, the 5c is still in doubt. There is talk of channel inventory. We don't know specific numbers. Maybe you do, the rest of us don't.
What would you like him to say, "The 5s had amazing sales, the 5c... not so much". Even if it was true the shareholders would sue Apple into the pavement.
So, I'm saying that I want to see the numbers broken down before I accept it as gospel.
As for the rest, please let us know how many multibillion dollar products you've produced and marketed and why your opinion is right while Apple is wrong. They've decided that a new case design was a good idea for some reason - and the results bear that out. I'm guessing that they wanted to differentiate the 'better' phone from the 'best' phone or they wanted to have a phone that appeals to a different audience. Regardless of the reason, though, there's absolutely no reason to believe that you know more about it than Apple.
C'mon, J! It's his opinion. We all give opinions, including you. If we stopped giving opinions then they might as well close down AI.
So are you telling me you smarter than Cook and the Apple team in decided what phones should be sold and for how much?
Really?
Are you really that lost with reality that you think you are in a better position to make these decisions?
Then some of the smartest tech/marketing guys in the entire world?
If so please get out of here and start selling your iHermit phones and make billions.
By the way the CEO of Sprint said the 5C was selling very strong. But does it really matter? If the 5C was selling much more than the 5S the stupid ass analysis would say 'lower revenue and margin for the cheaper phone'. Or that the 5S isn't a true flagship. ect. Some people are never satisfied.
So you are saying that you don't have any hard numbers?
They researched the product and market extensively.
These are literally $50,000,000,000 decisions.
I'm sorry I'll support Mr Cook on this one instead of a hermit.
Asking for hard numbers is silly. Apple has NEVER given hard numbers in their quarterly financials for a specific iPhone model. NEVER. You are being silly. Its like saying I think Apple sold 95% iPhone4's last quarter. And then say there are no hard numbers so I must be right. Whatever.
A well respected forum member asked for hard numbers/evidece the other day to support a members claim that sales of the 5c were terrible (which I did not say). I said the same as you. We will never get hard numbers from Apple. His reply to me was that we will wait until Tim Cook actually says there are bad numbers (in reference to a comment I made about Cook), and then we can discuss it again. I would never say that member's request was silly.
So I say the reverse. Wait until Tim Cook actually says there are good numbers for the 5c (specifically), and then we can discuss it again.
** It must also be noted that I have stated in at least 2 threads that I believe the 5c will sell well during the holiday period.
There are a lot of people out there spewing nonsense about subjects that they couldn't possibly have information on.
The only real number we have is that Apple sold 9 M phones over the weekend.
We also have reports that 5S phones are appearing in various usage stats 3 times as often as 5C phones. The data might be correct, but may not be useful - because there's no way to know whether the data is representative of the entire world. Therefore, the data is somewhat questionable.
The rest is simply made up garbage with absolutely no methodology and no reason at all to believe that it is valid. And considering that Munster, in particular, has been so far off on his previous predictions, there's no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I suspect that's not too far off the mark.
'C' was never for cheap. It's clearly for color.
As for the rest, please let us know how many multibillion dollar products you've produced and marketed and why your opinion is right while Apple is wrong. They've decided that a new case design was a good idea for some reason - and the results bear that out. I'm guessing that they wanted to differentiate the 'better' phone from the 'best' phone or they wanted to have a phone that appeals to a different audience. Regardless of the reason, though, there's absolutely no reason to believe that you know more about it than Apple.
You're not even trying to understand the data, just jumping to silly conclusions.
Also, if I can prove to you without a shadow of a doubt that one of your assumptions is incorrect, are you likely to change your conclusion?
In terms of multi-billion dollar products, I think it unlikely that many people have both produced and marketed them. Please don't underestimate the people on this forum, many of us have been in the tech sector for a long time, and if you believe that Apple is the only company with multi-billion dollar products you're very mistaken. I've worked in marketing and product management on dozens of multi-billion dollar products with both IBM and AT&T.
Please don't underestimate the people on this forum, many of us have been in the tech sector for a long time, and if you believe that Apple is the only company with multi-billion dollar products you're very mistaken. I've worked in marketing and product management on dozens of multi-billion dollar products with both IBM and AT&T.
Cook didn't specifically say the numbers. He also didn't specifically say 5s and 5c. He said new iPhones. Yes, we know the 5s was flying off the shelves, the 5c is still in doubt. There is talk of channel inventory. We don't know specific numbers. Maybe you do, the rest of us don't.
What would you like him to say, "The 5s had amazing sales, the 5c... not so much". Even if it was true the shareholders would sue Apple into the pavement.
So, I'm saying that I want to see the numbers broken down before I accept it as gospel.
Thank you.
Would it matter if it was channel stuffing ( which it's not)? Why can every other company allowed to stuff channels or not report any meaningful numbers but Apple? I don't remember analysts whining about channel stuffing for Sammy?
Sometimes I wonder if anyone who writes for this publication has a brain.
Let's see if any of the bright readers who can do a bit of math can put this together:
1. This analyst claims that of the 9 million units sold, approximately half were the 5s and half were the 5c.
2. Usage data suggest that approximately 78% of the phones tracked were 5s and 22% were 5c.
3. The analyst mentions that there is a difference between sell-in and sell-through, but this article doesn't try to explain what the significance is or even come close to understanding why this is significant.
4. An Apple bull suggests that the 'real' sales were closer to 5.5 million units.
Munster was likely right, Apple probably sold around 5.5 million units during the weekend!
And, this analyst is likely correct in that half the models sold were 5C and the other half 5S.
AND, Tim Cook is right that 9 million units sold!
How does that work? First you need to understand what a sale is for Apple. It includes what's called "Sell-In" in the industry, which means that any phones sold to AT&T, DoCoMo, Bell Canada, Telstra, China Unicom etc. are included as revenue for Apple, and they can rightly claim them as sales. So no, Tim Cook is not lying. They have sold 9 million phones.
However, in the past, Apple has typically sold out of their new iPhone, so there was no surplus inventory left in the channel. This year seems different; every indication is that the 5S has sold out, but the 5C has not. So, there appear to be a number of 5C models sitting around unsold. How many? Well Munster is guessing 3.5 million.
If you take the data from localytics, in their report titled "China Leads the Pack in Preference For iPhone 5s Over 5c" published September 24th, you'll find the statement, Globally the iPhone 5s represented 78% of all of the new iPhone 5s and 5c devices.
If Apple has sold all 5S units (approximately 4.5 million), and that represents 78% of all phones, then the remaining 22% are iPhone 5C models....a bit of basic math and you'll see that they have sold approximately 1 million 5C models.
So, total sales to end customers of approximately 5.5 million units and 3.5 million sitting in the channel as Munster has stated.
If this is correct, Apple has a problem. The sales of the 5S are doing well, roughly equal to the 5. But, the 5C is not doing well, and Apple has shipped too many. To further the problem, China, where they really need to do well is the worst case according to the data from localytics. It's the market that is selling the lowest proportion of 5C models which makes you question their whole strategy of a lower priced model to enter into emerging markets.
Would it matter if it was channel stuffing ( which it's not)? Why can every other company allowed to stuff channels or not report any meaningful numbers but Apple? I don't remember analysts whining about channel stuffing for Sammy?
"But he's also bullish on the iPhone 5c, which he admitted beat his expectations for sales while also carrying high margins." Why cant most analysts do that, admit that they were wrong people would have more respect for them if they did unlike that boob Munster and his sidekick hack.
How does anyone know how much 5C's were in inventory. You don't know.
I thought I've heard it all but this takes the cake: Basing sales on localytics. Really stupid. And how do you know Apple sold 4.5 Mil 5S? This is speculation based on speculation based on speculation. Pure stupidity.
I suspect this is the first time I've been called stupid by someone who doesn't know the difference between 'much' and 'many'.
I'll try one part, very slowly, just for you. The number of units shipped minus the number of units active is a good approximation of the number of units yet sold.
The number of units shipped minus the number of units active is a good approximation of the number of units yet sold.
How do we know localytics data is any good? They only track apps which are customers of theirs. How many chinese app developers do you think they have? Perhaps many first time iPhone buyers in China don't go out and download a bunch of apps, and if they did it would likely be free apps since only about 1-2% of Chinese have credit cards. Maybe they are like me and only download apps from major developers like Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Skype and Google, None of those organizations are going to share any statistics with localytics.
I rarely trust usage statistics from analytic firms because they always have their own bias. For example if you looked at W3 Schools web stats you could make the assumption that Internet Explorer did not exist. Yet other websites report IE at 40%.
I visited a highly-visible third-part accessory retailer earlier this week (in a well-trafficked venue). The proprietor sells for all popular mobile devices, but his inventory is Apple-heavy.
So we got into a conversation about the new phones, and he insisted, with a straight face, that:
- The 5c is vastly slower than last year's 5, and in fact, they put a downgraded processor in it;
- The "c" stands for Cheap;
- In summary, don't buy the 5c.
I excused myself without getting into it with him, but still, I wonder... where is that mindset coming from? And how much is "anti-buzz" like this affecting 5c sales?
There are lots of idiots out there. Many of them are doing that their employers recommend - pumping up Android products or other products that get them extra spiffs. I don't know what that person's problem is, of course.
Some people have claimed it would be a blow out hit. Compared to that.
1. Who is 'some people' and why should we care what they have to say? If Apple made a prediction, tell us what they said. Otherwise, I don't see that I should be bound by 'some people' that you made up.
2. I would say the 5C WAS a blowout hit. The lowest estimate was that 2 M 5C units were sold in launch weekend. Now, there are a handful of phones (a couple of iPhones and one or two Galaxy models) that sold more than that in one weekend, but every one of them was a brand new phone with the latest technology. I can't think of another phone based on last year's technology that ever sold 2 M in its launch weekend.
3. I think the story of the 5C remains to be told. Since it's based on last year's phone, I wouldn't expect the massive surge in sales that the 5S received. Rather, it is likely to have a smaller peak, but less decline over time.
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">You're not even trying to understand the data, just jumping to silly conclusions. </span>
Also, if I can prove to you without a shadow of a doubt that one of your assumptions is incorrect, are you likely to change your conclusion?
Not interested in your fantasies. If you think that what I said was incorrect, feel free to point it out.
<span style="line-In terms of multi-billion dollar products, I think it unlikely that many people have both produced and marketed them. Please don't underestimate the people on this forum, many of us have been in the tech sector for a long time, and if you believe that Apple is the only company with multi-billion dollar products you're very mistaken. I've worked in marketing and product management on dozens of multi-billion dollar products with both IBM and AT&T.
[/quote]
So? The person who sells AT&T phones at the mall can say the same thing. I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that your opinion is more accurate than Apple's.
Limited supply of the iPhone 5s during launch weekend may have led to a relatively even split of sales between Apple's new flagship model and the more affordable iPhone 5c, one well-connected analyst has said.
In my opinion, if the PREFERRED model is the pricier model, as implied by the shortage of 5S, then to call the less costly model "more affordable" belies a bias that tries to suggest that the less costly model is in some way better.
Sales seem to suggest otherwise.
Word choice matters. The less costly model is only "more affordable" to the minority who choose to buy it on the basis of cost. Like the analyst, I suppose. It's like reporting that the fashion show loser was the more prettily-garbed contestant--only the dissenting judges would say so.
How do we know localytics data is any good? They only track apps which are customers of theirs. How many chinese app developers do you think they have? Perhaps many first time iPhone buyers in China don't go out and download a bunch of apps, and if they did it would likely be free apps since only about 1-2% of Chinese have credit cards. Maybe they are like me and only download apps from major developers like Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Skype and Google, None of those organizations are going to share any statistics with localytics.
I rarely trust usage statistics from analytic firms because they always have their own bias. For example if you looked at W3 Schools web stats you could make the assumption that Internet Explorer did not exist. Yet other websites report IE at 40%.
All good points, however, all I was looking for was the proportion of users using the 5C versus the 5S, not an absolute value. Based on this need, the sample size can be quite small and the error margin would be relatively small. U.S. is likely over-represented, but the difference between U.S. and the rest of the world is relatively small and I wasn't looking for huge accuracy.
I'm very familiar with Web Browser stats and have done a lot of research in this area. I know this is a side note, but the reason that you see such discrepancy in the data as you mentioned can be articulated as Net Applications versus everyone else. Only Net Applications shows such a high proportion of IE traffic. The reason is that they use country weightings on the data from CIA data and no one else does.
1. Who is 'some people' and why should we care what they have to say? If Apple made a prediction, tell us what they said. Otherwise, I don't see that I should be bound by 'some people' that you made up.
2. I would say the 5C WAS a blowout hit. The lowest estimate was that 2 M 5C units were sold in launch weekend. Now, there are a handful of phones (a couple of iPhones and one or two Galaxy models) that sold more than that in one weekend, but every one of them was a brand new phone with the latest technology. I can't think of another phone based on last year's technology that ever sold 2 M in its launch weekend.
3. I think the story of the 5C remains to be told. Since it's based on last year's phone, I wouldn't expect the massive surge in sales that the 5S received. Rather, it is likely to have a smaller peak, but less decline over time.
Not interested in your fantasies. If you think that what I said was incorrect, feel free to point it out.
1. Oh, for f*ck's sake - the only thing I have ever said was a reply to a few people on here that said, upon the introduction of the 5c, that it would be a real hit. I said I didn't think so. (and I have reiterated that several times with absolutely no comprehension of that statement from the opposing members) It was an opinion, just like their opinion. A few others, including yourself, made it into a huge issue. I gave my reasons. they gave their reasons. So far nobody can say decisively if it sold well in the last week or not. I also said that I thought the 5c would sell well during the holiday season.
2. You have your opinion of a blow out hit and I have mine. For all intent and purpose the 5c is a new phone. At least that seems to be the way that Apple is selling it.
3. You say that you are not interested in my fantasies... yet you respond. Sheesh! Talk about fantasy.
Comments
Yes, I'd say that most rhetoric here was indeed that 5c would NOT out sell 5s (and by a decent margin) during launch weekend.
I don't recall anyone saying that either.
Moral of the story?
There are a lot of people out there spewing nonsense about subjects that they couldn't possibly have information on.
The only real number we have is that Apple sold 9 M phones over the weekend.
We also have reports that 5S phones are appearing in various usage stats 3 times as often as 5C phones. The data might be correct, but may not be useful - because there's no way to know whether the data is representative of the entire world. Therefore, the data is somewhat questionable.
The rest is simply made up garbage with absolutely no methodology and no reason at all to believe that it is valid. And considering that Munster, in particular, has been so far off on his previous predictions, there's no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I suspect that's not too far off the mark.
'C' was never for cheap. It's clearly for color.
As for the rest, please let us know how many multibillion dollar products you've produced and marketed and why your opinion is right while Apple is wrong. They've decided that a new case design was a good idea for some reason - and the results bear that out. I'm guessing that they wanted to differentiate the 'better' phone from the 'best' phone or they wanted to have a phone that appeals to a different audience. Regardless of the reason, though, there's absolutely no reason to believe that you know more about it than Apple.
Plastic: Hmmm... this is my least favorite reason. Do enough people think plastic is better? Does Apple really have to offer a phone of this type to compete with competitors offering? Are the competitors offerings selling?
I wish Apple would have went with aluminum enclosures (ala iPod Touch & Nano) for the 5c especially at the price points they chose. Perhaps an all aluminum case would cause problems with cellular radio transmission and reception. Maybe not forever though:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/apples-invisible-microslot-antennas-patent-means-your-next-iphone-could-have-an-all-aluminum-case/
Mr Cook himself said the demand for the 5S and 5C was amazing. Are you telling me he is lying? ARE YOU HERMIT!
Cook didn't specifically say the numbers. He also didn't specifically say 5s and 5c. He said new iPhones. Yes, we know the 5s was flying off the shelves, the 5c is still in doubt. There is talk of channel inventory. We don't know specific numbers. Maybe you do, the rest of us don't.
What would you like him to say, "The 5s had amazing sales, the 5c... not so much". Even if it was true the shareholders would sue Apple into the pavement.
So, I'm saying that I want to see the numbers broken down before I accept it as gospel.
Thank you.
As for the rest, please let us know how many multibillion dollar products you've produced and marketed and why your opinion is right while Apple is wrong. They've decided that a new case design was a good idea for some reason - and the results bear that out. I'm guessing that they wanted to differentiate the 'better' phone from the 'best' phone or they wanted to have a phone that appeals to a different audience. Regardless of the reason, though, there's absolutely no reason to believe that you know more about it than Apple.
C'mon, J! It's his opinion. We all give opinions, including you. If we stopped giving opinions then they might as well close down AI.
Everyone is welcome to give his or her opinion.
Everyone is welcome to ignore it as well.
So you are telling me Cook is a liar?
So are you telling me they sold 9 million 5S?
So are you telling me you smarter than Cook and the Apple team in decided what phones should be sold and for how much?
Really?
Are you really that lost with reality that you think you are in a better position to make these decisions?
Then some of the smartest tech/marketing guys in the entire world?
If so please get out of here and start selling your iHermit phones and make billions.
By the way the CEO of Sprint said the 5C was selling very strong. But does it really matter? If the 5C was selling much more than the 5S the stupid ass analysis would say 'lower revenue and margin for the cheaper phone'. Or that the 5S isn't a true flagship. ect. Some people are never satisfied.
So you are saying that you don't have any hard numbers?
Cook said the demand for iPhones were great.
They sold 9 million phones.
They researched the product and market extensively.
These are literally $50,000,000,000 decisions.
I'm sorry I'll support Mr Cook on this one instead of a hermit.
Asking for hard numbers is silly. Apple has NEVER given hard numbers in their quarterly financials for a specific iPhone model. NEVER. You are being silly. Its like saying I think Apple sold 95% iPhone4's last quarter. And then say there are no hard numbers so I must be right. Whatever.
A well respected forum member asked for hard numbers/evidece the other day to support a members claim that sales of the 5c were terrible (which I did not say). I said the same as you. We will never get hard numbers from Apple. His reply to me was that we will wait until Tim Cook actually says there are bad numbers (in reference to a comment I made about Cook), and then we can discuss it again. I would never say that member's request was silly.
So I say the reverse. Wait until Tim Cook actually says there are good numbers for the 5c (specifically), and then we can discuss it again.
** It must also be noted that I have stated in at least 2 threads that I believe the 5c will sell well during the holiday period.
Moral of the story?
There are a lot of people out there spewing nonsense about subjects that they couldn't possibly have information on.
The only real number we have is that Apple sold 9 M phones over the weekend.
We also have reports that 5S phones are appearing in various usage stats 3 times as often as 5C phones. The data might be correct, but may not be useful - because there's no way to know whether the data is representative of the entire world. Therefore, the data is somewhat questionable.
The rest is simply made up garbage with absolutely no methodology and no reason at all to believe that it is valid. And considering that Munster, in particular, has been so far off on his previous predictions, there's no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I suspect that's not too far off the mark.
'C' was never for cheap. It's clearly for color.
As for the rest, please let us know how many multibillion dollar products you've produced and marketed and why your opinion is right while Apple is wrong. They've decided that a new case design was a good idea for some reason - and the results bear that out. I'm guessing that they wanted to differentiate the 'better' phone from the 'best' phone or they wanted to have a phone that appeals to a different audience. Regardless of the reason, though, there's absolutely no reason to believe that you know more about it than Apple.
You're not even trying to understand the data, just jumping to silly conclusions.
Also, if I can prove to you without a shadow of a doubt that one of your assumptions is incorrect, are you likely to change your conclusion?
In terms of multi-billion dollar products, I think it unlikely that many people have both produced and marketed them. Please don't underestimate the people on this forum, many of us have been in the tech sector for a long time, and if you believe that Apple is the only company with multi-billion dollar products you're very mistaken. I've worked in marketing and product management on dozens of multi-billion dollar products with both IBM and AT&T.
Please don't underestimate the people on this forum, many of us have been in the tech sector for a long time, and if you believe that Apple is the only company with multi-billion dollar products you're very mistaken. I've worked in marketing and product management on dozens of multi-billion dollar products with both IBM and AT&T.
Wow. Is that you Balmer?
Would it matter if it was channel stuffing ( which it's not)? Why can every other company allowed to stuff channels or not report any meaningful numbers but Apple? I don't remember analysts whining about channel stuffing for Sammy?
Sometimes I wonder if anyone who writes for this publication has a brain.
Let's see if any of the bright readers who can do a bit of math can put this together:
1. This analyst claims that of the 9 million units sold, approximately half were the 5s and half were the 5c.
2. Usage data suggest that approximately 78% of the phones tracked were 5s and 22% were 5c.
3. The analyst mentions that there is a difference between sell-in and sell-through, but this article doesn't try to explain what the significance is or even come close to understanding why this is significant.
4. An Apple bull suggests that the 'real' sales were closer to 5.5 million units.
Munster was likely right, Apple probably sold around 5.5 million units during the weekend!
And, this analyst is likely correct in that half the models sold were 5C and the other half 5S.
AND, Tim Cook is right that 9 million units sold!
How does that work? First you need to understand what a sale is for Apple. It includes what's called "Sell-In" in the industry, which means that any phones sold to AT&T, DoCoMo, Bell Canada, Telstra, China Unicom etc. are included as revenue for Apple, and they can rightly claim them as sales. So no, Tim Cook is not lying. They have sold 9 million phones.
However, in the past, Apple has typically sold out of their new iPhone, so there was no surplus inventory left in the channel. This year seems different; every indication is that the 5S has sold out, but the 5C has not. So, there appear to be a number of 5C models sitting around unsold. How many? Well Munster is guessing 3.5 million.
If you take the data from localytics, in their report titled "China Leads the Pack in Preference For iPhone 5s Over 5c" published September 24th, you'll find the statement, Globally the iPhone 5s represented 78% of all of the new iPhone 5s and 5c devices.
If Apple has sold all 5S units (approximately 4.5 million), and that represents 78% of all phones, then the remaining 22% are iPhone 5C models....a bit of basic math and you'll see that they have sold approximately 1 million 5C models.
So, total sales to end customers of approximately 5.5 million units and 3.5 million sitting in the channel as Munster has stated.
If this is correct, Apple has a problem. The sales of the 5S are doing well, roughly equal to the 5. But, the 5C is not doing well, and Apple has shipped too many. To further the problem, China, where they really need to do well is the worst case according to the data from localytics. It's the market that is selling the lowest proportion of 5C models which makes you question their whole strategy of a lower priced model to enter into emerging markets.
Would it matter if it was channel stuffing ( which it's not)? Why can every other company allowed to stuff channels or not report any meaningful numbers but Apple? I don't remember analysts whining about channel stuffing for Sammy?
I think you just spoke heresy.
Munster was likely right, Apple probably sold around 5.5 million units during the weekend!
I can tell you are going to be very popular around here.
Why cant most analysts do that, admit that they were wrong people would have more respect for them if they did unlike that boob Munster and his sidekick hack.
How does anyone know how much 5C's were in inventory. You don't know.
I thought I've heard it all but this takes the cake: Basing sales on localytics. Really stupid. And how do you know Apple sold 4.5 Mil 5S? This is speculation based on speculation based on speculation. Pure stupidity.
I suspect this is the first time I've been called stupid by someone who doesn't know the difference between 'much' and 'many'.
I'll try one part, very slowly, just for you. The number of units shipped minus the number of units active is a good approximation of the number of units yet sold.
How do we know localytics data is any good? They only track apps which are customers of theirs. How many chinese app developers do you think they have? Perhaps many first time iPhone buyers in China don't go out and download a bunch of apps, and if they did it would likely be free apps since only about 1-2% of Chinese have credit cards. Maybe they are like me and only download apps from major developers like Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Skype and Google, None of those organizations are going to share any statistics with localytics.
I rarely trust usage statistics from analytic firms because they always have their own bias. For example if you looked at W3 Schools web stats you could make the assumption that Internet Explorer did not exist. Yet other websites report IE at 40%.
There are lots of idiots out there. Many of them are doing that their employers recommend - pumping up Android products or other products that get them extra spiffs. I don't know what that person's problem is, of course.
1. Who is 'some people' and why should we care what they have to say? If Apple made a prediction, tell us what they said. Otherwise, I don't see that I should be bound by 'some people' that you made up.
2. I would say the 5C WAS a blowout hit. The lowest estimate was that 2 M 5C units were sold in launch weekend. Now, there are a handful of phones (a couple of iPhones and one or two Galaxy models) that sold more than that in one weekend, but every one of them was a brand new phone with the latest technology. I can't think of another phone based on last year's technology that ever sold 2 M in its launch weekend.
3. I think the story of the 5C remains to be told. Since it's based on last year's phone, I wouldn't expect the massive surge in sales that the 5S received. Rather, it is likely to have a smaller peak, but less decline over time.
Not interested in your fantasies. If you think that what I said was incorrect, feel free to point it out.
<span style="line-In terms of multi-billion dollar products, I think it unlikely that many people have both produced and marketed them. Please don't underestimate the people on this forum, many of us have been in the tech sector for a long time, and if you believe that Apple is the only company with multi-billion dollar products you're very mistaken. I've worked in marketing and product management on dozens of multi-billion dollar products with both IBM and AT&T.
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So? The person who sells AT&T phones at the mall can say the same thing. I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that your opinion is more accurate than Apple's.
In my opinion, if the PREFERRED model is the pricier model, as implied by the shortage of 5S, then to call the less costly model "more affordable" belies a bias that tries to suggest that the less costly model is in some way better.
Sales seem to suggest otherwise.
Word choice matters. The less costly model is only "more affordable" to the minority who choose to buy it on the basis of cost. Like the analyst, I suppose. It's like reporting that the fashion show loser was the more prettily-garbed contestant--only the dissenting judges would say so.
How do we know localytics data is any good? They only track apps which are customers of theirs. How many chinese app developers do you think they have? Perhaps many first time iPhone buyers in China don't go out and download a bunch of apps, and if they did it would likely be free apps since only about 1-2% of Chinese have credit cards. Maybe they are like me and only download apps from major developers like Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Skype and Google, None of those organizations are going to share any statistics with localytics.
I rarely trust usage statistics from analytic firms because they always have their own bias. For example if you looked at W3 Schools web stats you could make the assumption that Internet Explorer did not exist. Yet other websites report IE at 40%.
All good points, however, all I was looking for was the proportion of users using the 5C versus the 5S, not an absolute value. Based on this need, the sample size can be quite small and the error margin would be relatively small. U.S. is likely over-represented, but the difference between U.S. and the rest of the world is relatively small and I wasn't looking for huge accuracy.
I'm very familiar with Web Browser stats and have done a lot of research in this area. I know this is a side note, but the reason that you see such discrepancy in the data as you mentioned can be articulated as Net Applications versus everyone else. Only Net Applications shows such a high proportion of IE traffic. The reason is that they use country weightings on the data from CIA data and no one else does.
2. I would say the 5C WAS a blowout hit. The lowest estimate was that 2 M 5C units were sold in launch weekend. Now, there are a handful of phones (a couple of iPhones and one or two Galaxy models) that sold more than that in one weekend, but every one of them was a brand new phone with the latest technology. I can't think of another phone based on last year's technology that ever sold 2 M in its launch weekend.
3. I think the story of the 5C remains to be told. Since it's based on last year's phone, I wouldn't expect the massive surge in sales that the 5S received. Rather, it is likely to have a smaller peak, but less decline over time.
Not interested in your fantasies. If you think that what I said was incorrect, feel free to point it out.
1. Oh, for f*ck's sake - the only thing I have ever said was a reply to a few people on here that said, upon the introduction of the 5c, that it would be a real hit. I said I didn't think so. (and I have reiterated that several times with absolutely no comprehension of that statement from the opposing members) It was an opinion, just like their opinion. A few others, including yourself, made it into a huge issue. I gave my reasons. they gave their reasons. So far nobody can say decisively if it sold well in the last week or not. I also said that I thought the 5c would sell well during the holiday season.
2. You have your opinion of a blow out hit and I have mine. For all intent and purpose the 5c is a new phone. At least that seems to be the way that Apple is selling it.
3. You say that you are not interested in my fantasies... yet you respond. Sheesh! Talk about fantasy.